Looking for a new, cheaper subwoofer. Velodyne finally kicked the bucket.

MikeUp

I'm on a budget now so $400 is actually above what I feel comfortable paying, but I don't want any regrets. My 24 year old Velodyne CT-100 just started humming very loud after trying some Jamo S808 subwoofers. I guess the velodyne just didn't like being moved with or messed with, considering it's age. It just started to get a bad, loud hum. Likely some caps probably gave up.

Any how, the Jamo S808 subwoofers were about the worst subs I've heard or seen. Vinyl wrap and grill had imperfections on them. Never even seen subs with 2.1 computer speakers this bad. Just poor quality. Figured I'd give them a try for sound and man was it bad. About the most muddy subwoofer I've heard. Much worse than my Yamaha YST-SW012 that's in storage for sounding bad. And worlds worst than awesome sounding Polk TL1600 subwoofers. I'd use them but they only go down to about 40Hz and have an inherent hum flaw in both of them. The hum can't be heard at most distances but I want a better home theater experience that 40Hz just can't provide. It's plenty for music as these Polk TL1600 sound great with music, have good punch, and speed and offer good articulation in all the bass frequencies. The more I listen to them, the more I'm impressed!

The Jamo S808 besides sound super muddy with no articulation, must have very poor cabinet bracing as it got a really bad resonance at a higher bass tone. Really bad! Then on top of it, the bass extension was bad as well. As big as the subwoofer is, it really only went down to 50Hz -3db by my ears. Lacked real kick drum punch and made music less realistic sounding. Just really bad speakers.

That being said, Jamo is a Klipsch company and the amplifier back plates are identical to a lot of Klipsch amplifier back plates except for the name on them. I was thinking about getting a Klipsch R-10SW 10" subwoofer but read reviews that said they were muddy and not good for music. Same thing with other upper end Klipsch. With my experience with Jamo, makes me afraid to try a Klipsch subwoofer. I just don't want the hassle of waiting for it and then returning it. However the R-10SW is a bargain with 150 watt rms/300 watts peak, 32 Hz -3db extension and only a $200 price. Seems like a bargain but not if it sounds bad for music.

My other subwoofer I'd like to try is a Polk HTS 10. It's only 100 watts rms/200 watts peak so has less power than the Klipsh. It's also $400, and twice the price of the Klipsch. On top of all that, it's pretty big and a good portion larger than the Klipsch R-10SW. It does go 2 Hz lower at 30 Hz -3db but that negligible. BUT if it's as musical as the TL1600 subwoofer and the Klipsch sounds as bad as the Jamo on music, it's an easy choice to go with the Polk HTS 10.

I am limited for room so the HTS 10 is just about as big as my Velodyne CT-100, so can't go much larger. That's why I'm not considering any 12" subwoofers.

I was looking at going with 2 small subwoofers to help smooth response and make more listening spots have more consistent bass in my square living room. I guess I have to stick to one larger subwoofer to go under 40Hz and stay in my budget.

So is the Klipsch musical enough to do justice or is it mainly a muddy home theater subwoofer. Is the Polk HTS 10 worth the 2X price??

Thanks!

Clipdat

It's going to be hard to find a sub that compares favorably to the Velodyne CT-100 for $400 or less. Dare I say you'd be looking closer to $600 to $1k to achieve that same level of performance from today's various sub models.

MikeUp

Clipdat wrote: »

It's going to be hard to find a sub that compares favorably to the Velodyne CT-100 for $400 or less. Dare I say you'd be looking closer to $600 to $1k to achieve that same level of performance from today's various sub models.

Yeh, I kind of figured that. That sub, with only a 10" woofer could go below my hearing. You could feel it sometimes more than hear it. The Velodyne was only 100 watts rms/250 watts peak and 28 Hz @ -3db so the Polk is close at 100/200 watts and 30 Hz -3db. The Velodyne was probably under rated while most subs now are over rated.

I was young then with disposable income. Today I budget more for higher priority issues. It would be nice to have more disposable income to do the same today but I can't. None the less, that Velodyne sub had a $500 MSRP back in 1998 and I bought it for $300 from Circuit City. Using the inflation calculator, that $300 then is equal to $546 today. Granted even $300 back then was a great deal. It was likely selling at $400 or higher normally which is equivalent to $727 today.

Clipdat

My dad purchased his from Circuit City in the 90s as well and it's still kicking to this day and sounds great. Like you said, probably underrated specs. What can you say, other than they don't make them like they used to!

That being said maybe the Polk HTS-10 could hang. Is there absolutely no room for the HTS-12 instead? Edit: nevermind the HTS-12 is $500

F1nut

For music a sealed sub is best.

A bit more than your stated budget, but far better than what you are considering.
https://www.svsound.com/products/sb-1000

Clipdat

Lol yeah, this would pretty much destroy either Polk model: https://www.crutchfield.com/p_946SB1KPBA/SVS-SB-1000-Pro-Black-Ash.html

MikeUp

Thanks everyone for your help. So it looks like, by omission, that Klipsch subs are not very good?

The SVS SB1000 can fit in the spot but the PB1000 is way to big. $500 for the SB1000 is not bad for what you get. Looks like the sealed design looses a few Hertz extension and a some output next to the ported version but is a whole lot smaller and likely quicker with better dampening. Sounds like the sealed version is best for my situation and likely equal or better in performance than Velodyne CT-100.

Thanks

mhardy6647

MikeUp wrote: »

Thanks everyone for your help. So it looks like, by omission, that Klipsch sub are not very good?

Oh -- I think that's a safe assumption.

The SVS SB1000 can fit in the spot but the PB1000 is way to big. $500 for the SB1000 not bad for what you get. Looks like the sealed design loose a few Hertz extension and a some output next to ported version but is a whole lot smaller and likely quicker with better dampening. Sounds like the sealed version is best for my situation and likely equal or better in oerformance than Velodyne CT-100.

Thanks

Did you look at/consider any of PartsExpress's "Dayton" branded subwoofer kits?
https://www.parts-express.com/speaker-components/speaker-subwoofer-kits/configuration/Subwoofer

As an aside: there is something to be said, I'd suggest, for "outboarding" the amplification and/or the DSP/signal processing, rather than having everything in one box.

MikeUp

mhardy6647 wrote: »

MikeUp wrote: »

Thanks everyone for your help. So it looks like, by omission, that Klipsch sub are not very good?

Oh -- I think that's a safe assumption.

The SVS SB1000 can fit in the spot but the PB1000 is way to big. $500 for the SB1000 not bad for what you get. Looks like the sealed design loose a few Hertz extension and a some output next to ported version but is a whole lot smaller and likely quicker with better dampening. Sounds like the sealed version is best for my situation and likely equal or better in oerformance than Velodyne CT-100.

Thanks

Did you look at/consider any of PartsExpress's "Dayton" branded subwoofer kits?
https://www.parts-express.com/speaker-components/speaker-subwoofer-kits/configuration/Subwoofer

As an aside: there is something to be said, I'd suggest, for "outboarding" the amplification and/or the DSP/signal processing, rather than having everything in one box.

Thanks for the suggestion. I've seen good reviews for Dayton subs but some pretty awful reviews as well. So I'm not to interested in Dayton. Thanks for the idea though.

MikeUp

Well I've went and bought a subwoofer. Now just waiting for it to be delivered. It's discontinued but a great deal from an authorized dealer. I bought the Polk DSWPRO 660wi for a bit over $300 and from what I've read, it competes with the SVS 2000 series. The dealer who sells SVS as well said the same as he feels it's a better sub then the SVS SB1000.

Hopefully it will be a good fit. After moving my Polk TL1600 where the Velodyne CT-100 was, I just kept getting more impressed with how good it was on music. The DSWPRO 660wi is just like a very large version.

The Polk DSWPRO 660wi with it's 12" driver is the same size as my Velodyne so shoe horned, it will fit. I thought about getting the 440 for about $130 less, but the 660 was such a good deal for such good performance.

Thanks everyone for the help.

F1nut

Hate to tell ya, but from personal experience you made a mistake. For starters, it's not a sealed sub. It was aimed at HT use and it is a down firing design. You will not get fast tight bass.

ken brydson

F1nut wrote: »

Hate to tell ya, but from personal experience you made a mistake. For starters, it's not a sealed sub. It was aimed at HT use and it is a down firing design. You will not get fast tight bass.

Not to mention the amps have questionable reliability...

mrloren

I just replaced a down firing HSU STF-2 with an SVS SB2000, Just one sweet little 14" cube of a sub.

MikeUp

Hum, I've read a lot of positive user reviews saying they love it for music.

So you guys have heard it or another in the DSW line? How bad was it because my TL1600 sounds great on music compared to the Jamo subwoofer junk I heard and this 660 looks just like the TL1600 but much larger. Also read a lot of glowing reviews for the PSW10 on music. It seems weird why the higher end subs would be worst.

So for about $350 - $400 or even cheaper, what would you recommend that isn't larger than the DSW 660wi? I thought about it, and the SVS SB1000 $500 price is just more then I want to spend right now.

So do you guys feel the Polk HTS 10 sounds better?? It's $50 more and at the limit of my budget.

I have found a lot of negative reviews with reliability on the Klipsch subs but haven't seen any complaints in the reviews on reliability issues of the DSW 440wi, DSW 550wi, or DSW 660wi. What issues?

Thanks again!

rooftop59

The psw10 is terrible for music, it’s just a terrible sub period. First sub I owned, have had at least 20 different ones since then, all better.

I think you might be happy with the 660. I haven’t heard that exact model but it’s probably solid, just not the best for music. Main thing is, if you can buy an extended warranty, do it, those amps are prone to fail. That’s a huge advantage of the SVS and HSU subs, better warranties and companies that stand behind their products…

MikeUp

rooftop59 wrote: »

The psw10 is terrible for music, it’s just a terrible sub period. First sub I owned, have had at least 20 different ones since then, all better.

I think you might be happy with the 660. I haven’t heard that exact model but it’s probably solid, just not the best for music. Main thing is, if you can buy an extended warranty, do it, those amps are prone to fail. That’s a huge advantage of the SVS and HSU subs, better warranties and companies that stand behind their products…

Thanks. I've never heard the PSW10 but read a lot of good reviews on it for music and HT but I guess it's subjective.

If the DSW 660wi sounds as good as my Velodyne CT-100, I'll be very happy. In fact, by specs alone, it has better low frequency extension, has 4X the power for more output, has a bigger driver (12" vs 10") for more output, and is bottom firing which I prefer for better placement. It can be front firing also but the $79 optional grill is then needed.

It also has all the same features as speaker level inputs, dedicated LFE input, plus has a lot more options with remote, room location optimizer, and night mode.

Honestly I'll probably just set it up normally and leave it. With the sub right behind my left front speaker, phase is 0 degrees, and that is the optimal spot in the entire square shaped living room. Oddly enough, the subwoofer is right next to the hallway opening next to it and the kitchen opening to the side of it. Even so, it gets better low frequency extension, takes away the boominess of a corner placement, and blends seamlessly with the main speakers. I do have to jack the volume up about 6 db compared to a corner (which offers much worse room acoustics) but with the Velodyne, it had more output than I needed for my midsize living room.

I'll try it. For $350 it's a no brainer for Polks top of the line sub. Just wish it was smaller but DSW 550wi was sold out and I can't see it being but $70 cheaper.

F1nut

So you guys have heard it or another in the DSW line?

As I stated, I had personal experience. It is not a good sub for music.

skrol

I wouldn't believe any good review of the PSW10. They used to give them away for free with a pair of speakers. I have one that was in my starter HT system. I messed with modding it and swapped the driver for a DXi from the car-fi line. It now serves in my workshop.

MikeUp

F1nut wrote: »

So you guys have heard it or another in the DSW line?

As I stated, I had personal experience. It is not a good sub for music.

What do you recommend then for about $350 - $400?? The SVS is to far out of my budget. Thanks.

F1nut

Start saving up

MikeUp

F1nut wrote: »

Start saving up

I think I'll find something that sounds very good without breaking the bank. Not everyone is wealthy and can throw money away on expensive toys. Thanks for the advice, maybe when I hit the lottery.

VR3

Have you looked at used

boston1450

MikeUp wrote: »

F1nut wrote: »

Start saving up

I think I'll find something that sounds very good without breaking the bank. Not everyone is wealthy and can throw money away on expensive toys. Thanks for the advice, maybe when I hit the lottery.

I think that we all understand your pain. Some here (me for one) have gone around in circles & spent more. Only to end up saving my change & biting the bullet. If advice is asked - you got it. You may enjoy your new subwoofer, as you stated others like it. Wish you the best. Tell us what you think

rebelsoul

I've tried Polk and Klipsch wasn't happy till I got the svs

mhardy6647

VR3 wrote: »

Have you looked at used

Good call.

halo71

Thought about just buying a plate amp from PE? That is what I did when the plate amp finally gave up on my M&K V-1B sub. Bought a 250 watt HSU plate amp.

F1nut

MikeUp wrote: »

F1nut wrote: »

Start saving up

I think I'll find something that sounds very good without breaking the bank. Not everyone is wealthy and can throw money away on expensive toys. Thanks for the advice, maybe when I hit the lottery.

While I understand you have a budget, most people do, a $500.00 sub is FAR from being an expensive sub. In fact, it's damn near the bottom of the ladder.

maxward

Bingo! Do without a sub while you’re saving up. Then look around for used ones which you might find within the budget.

mrloren

MikeUp wrote: »

F1nut wrote: »

Start saving up

I think I'll find something that sounds very good without breaking the bank. Not everyone is wealthy and can throw money away on expensive toys. Thanks for the advice, maybe when I hit the lottery.

I'm a warehouseman living in SoCal, income to cost of living is way out of wack for me. I save and look for deals. I want to try an SVS SB16, saving now for a December-February purchase. As funds build Ill keep an eye on the used market for one.

Save you money and get a good sub than a stop gap you may not be happy with in 6 months.

rooftop59

I’ve purchased most of my subs used, never had a problem. The ACI Titan is over 20 years old. One of best music subs I’ve ever heard…

Look for a Martin Logan dynamo (original with speaker inputs), abyss, or grotto. Excellent music subs!

PSOVLSK

https://www.crutchfield.com/p_839DY400B/MartinLogan-Dynamo-400.html?cc=07

Opinions on this one?