Possible power outage for next two days

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Comments

  • huggies wrote: »

    PSPS is the acronym for “Public Safety Power Shutoff”.
    New Ca law (enacted by PUC and signed by Gov Newsome) REQUIRES utilities (ALL, not just PG&E) to de-energize areas that face severe wind threat/ fire risk.
    This has the Doppler effect of potentially impacting huge swaths of the State if that threat impacts a “Transmission” (500/230KV) Tower corridor(s).
    When that level of shut off is enacted, you don’t just flip a switch back on. The law requires PG&E to physically/visually inspect every single piece of equipment (down voltage) of the shut down BEFORE it can be re-energized. This means every tower, line, transformer, pad apparatus, substation, pole, reclosure, etc.
    This is why a 2 day event can potentially keep areas dark for several days after the threat has passed. It is a MASSIVE man hrs. labor intensive process on 24/7 overtime staffing.
    PG&E loses HUGE $$ when this is enacted as thousands of meters are not spinning and the labor cost to comply is huge. They don’t want to do these. They are legally mandated to now. This is the arrangement that was brokered through the PUC to balance the conflicting liability/service reliability laws. It is all driven because of California’s “Inverse Condemnation” liability conflict with PUC’s previous fining of the Company based on outage reliability.
    Prior, power shut off or outage = fine. Leave it on, and have ANY% role in a fire= 100% liability.
    If a limb 1/4 mile away blew into a transmission line and brought down hot conductor starting a fire?
    PG&E liable. No such thing as “Act of God” factored.
    No other State in the Nation has these asinine conflicts of law.

    So, to make this real. This is analogous to you knowing your daughter MAY have a bad hair dryer. Until she leaves, you shut your house main off. Now, by law, before you can flip the main switch back on, you must hire an electrician to inspect (and document) every breaker below your main, every wire in your attic, every wall switch, every outlet, etc. Then, you must one by one phase in all your breakers so you don’t shock load the system, then you have to go back and program all your digital electronics.

    Multiply this by 50K square miles.

    This was the narrative posted as an opinion commentary in a couple of places.

    - My_Opinion OCT 10, 2019 AT 11:16PM

    - Posted by San Ramon Neighbor a resident of San Ramon on Oct 10, 2019 at 6:36 am
  • BlueFox wrote: »
    Might be typical utility practice, but no law mandating it is referenced.

    The laws refer to the wildfire mitigation requirement. Proper restoration is a part of the requirement.

    What do you think would happen to PG&E if they didn't properly inspect and then re-energized a downed line causing a fire or a line with a tree on it that resulted in a fire? They legally have to practice their due diligence. They are in enough trouble as it is.

  • charley95
    charley95 Posts: 908
    Kex wrote: »
    It must be jealousy. There’s no other reason to explain such an unhealthy fascination with, hatred of California

    I don't think anyone here hates California, it's the scumbags that run the state!
  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,902
    charley95 wrote: »
    Kex wrote: »
    It must be jealousy. There’s no other reason to explain such an unhealthy fascination with, hatred of California

    I don't think anyone here hates California, it's the scumbags that run the state!
    charley95 wrote: »
    Kex wrote: »
    It must be jealousy. There’s no other reason to explain such an unhealthy fascination with, hatred of California

    I don't think anyone here hates California, it's the scumbags that run the state!


    ...and make their policy and laws, but that's swinging into politics which we should avoid.

    Unfortunately one would think that when it comes to these sort of things, politics/agendas should take a back seat to fixing the problem first.

    If California wants federal money to fix this, then in my opinion at least show some good faith in doing everything you can on your own first. Make an effort...because on the face, they are asking for everyone else to help pay, while they hand out free stuff left and right.

    Is that asking too much ? I don't think so....and certainly California isn't the only state asking such things.
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  • afterburnt
    afterburnt Posts: 7,892
    charley95 wrote: »
    Kex wrote: »
    It must be jealousy. There’s no other reason to explain such an unhealthy fascination with, hatred of California

    I don't think anyone here hates California, it's the scumbags that run the state!
    I hate the scumbags that voted for the scumbags that ruin the State.
  • afterburnt
    afterburnt Posts: 7,892
    I only stayed cause my kids are here otherwise I would have left ages ago. But alas they are grown and I am gone! FTP!
  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,902
    Dang man, jumped right back into the fire eh ? No pun intended. :)
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  • afterburnt
    afterburnt Posts: 7,892
    Anyway I find it interesting that the press broadcasted all day that the Saddleridge fire may have been started by a LADWP transmission line. The laziest investigation would have revealed that the line belongs to So. Cal. Edison. Regardless I don't count on the truth to be revealed about the origin of the fire.
  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,902
    afterburnt wrote: »
    Anyway I find it interesting that the press broadcasted all day that the Saddleridge fire may have been started by a LADWP transmission line. The laziest investigation would have revealed that the line belongs to So. Cal. Edison. Regardless I don't count on the truth to be revealed about the origin of the fire.

    I hear ya bro, I wouldn't either. None the less, it's really up to the people out there to demand these issues get fixed, if not, vote someone in who will do the job. Simple as that....but in the meantime, they'll have to suffer the loss of life and property due to incompetence.
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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,902
    boston1450 wrote: »
    So what's the problem?

    i43setky0sqk.png

    I'm so glad the beer is on table. LMFAO thanks now my stomach hurts from laughing
    boston1450 wrote: »
    So what's the problem?

    i43setky0sqk.png

    I'm so glad the beer is on table. LMFAO thanks now my stomach hurts from laughing

    Is that Russ's clothes on those lines ?? Swear I've seen him wearing those.
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  • Kex
    Kex Posts: 4,893
    Deltadon wrote: »
    The Los Angeles Times reported the law here...
    Exactly, the laws require that people and businesses are properly notified. Nowhere does it state that the PUC can oblige the power company to shut down power.

    These laws were passed because in the Camp Fire that killed all those people, once multiple cell towers were destroyed, communications became impossible, and many families in some areas were not notified to evacuate.

    "The new requirements call for investor-owned utilities to create plans to lessen the effects of outages on customers with sensitive medical needs and notify all emergency responders, healthcare providers and public safety groups within an outage area. The laws are among roughly two dozen bills related to wildfires that Newsom has signed into law this year."

    There are also no laws that prevent the power companies from maintaining their lines, including clearing brush under the lines.

    If either were true, with everyone screaming at them for these outages (including Governor Newsom and others), don't you think that the power company would hide behind the excuse that they had to do it (or not do it, in the case of clearing under the lines), to comply with the law?
    Alea jacta est!
  • Kex
    Kex Posts: 4,893
    edited October 2019
    Deltadon wrote: »
    PSPS is the acronym for “Public Safety Power Shutoff”.
    New Ca law (enacted by PUC and signed by Gov Newsome) REQUIRES utilities (ALL, not just PG&E) to de-energize areas that face severe wind threat/ fire risk. [...]
    Multiply this by 50K square miles.

    This was the narrative posted as an opinion commentary in a couple of places.
    Yes, this has been posted twice already in this thread, and it is obviously all over the internet, but it is pure fabrication with a political intent. Fake news masquerading as the real thing.

    The only statement that is partially true is that power lines cannot be turned on with the flick of a switch. There are laws of electrical engineering regarding load management and other issues involved.
    Alea jacta est!
  • afterburnt
    afterburnt Posts: 7,892
    Yeah "no laws"
    California Laws Protecting Native Plants
    Some native plants are protected by California law. Important California laws for native plant protection are the California Endangered Species Act (CESA), the Native Plant Protection Act (NPPA), the California Environmental Quality Act (CEQA), the Natural Community Conservation Planning Act (NCCPA), the California Desert Native Plants Act (CDNPA), and California Penal Code Section 384a.

    California Endangered Species Act
    CESA was enacted in 1984 to parallel the federal Endangered Species Act and allows the Fish and Game Commission to designate species, including plants, as threatened or endangered. CESA makes it illegal to import, export, “take”, possess, purchase, sell, or attempt to do any of those actions to species that are designated as threatened, endangered, or candidates for listing, unless permitted by CDFW. “Take” is defined as “hunt, pursue, catch, capture, or kill, or attempt to hunt, pursue, catch, capture, or kill.” There are 156 species, subspecies, and varieties of plants that are protected as link opens in new windowthreatened or endangered under CESA. Under CESA, CDFW may permit take or possession of threatened, endangered, or candidate species for scientific, educational, or management purposes, and may also permit take of these species that is incidental to otherwise lawful activities if certain conditions are met. Some of the conditions for incidental take are that the take is minimized and fully mitigated, adequate funding is ensured for this mitigation, and that the activity will not jeopardize the continued existence of the species.

    The Native Plant Program coordinates CDFW’s plant listing activities under CESA, prepares evaluation reports, and provides recommendations to the Fish and Game Commission. If you are considering petitioning the link opens in new windowFish and Game Commission to list a plant species pursuant to CESA, please email NativePlants@wildlife.ca.gov.

    Native Plant Protection Act
    The NPPA was enacted in 1977 and allows the Fish and Game Commission to designate plants as rare or endangered. There are 64 species, subspecies, and varieties of plants that are protected as rare under the NPPA. The NPPA prohibits take of endangered or rare native plants, but includes some exceptions for agricultural and nursery operations; emergencies; and after properly notifying CDFW for vegetation removal from canals, roads, and other sites, changes in land use, and in certain other situations. Please see link opens in new windowFish and Game Code section 1900 et seq. for more information.

    California Environmental Quality Act
    CEQA is a law that requires public agencies to analyze and publicly disclose the environmental impacts from projects they approve, and adopt feasible alternatives and mitigation measures to mitigate for the significant impacts they identify. During CEQA review, public agencies must evaluate and disclose impacts to the 220 plant species protected under CESA and the NPPA, and in most cases must mitigate all significant impacts to these species to a level of less than significance. In addition, during the CEQA process, public agencies must also address plant species that may not be listed under CESA or the NPPA, but that may nevertheless meet the definition of rare or endangered provided in CEQA. CDFW works in collaboration with the California Native Plant Society and with botanical experts throughout the state to maintain an link opens in new windowInventory of Rare and Endangered Plants, and the similar link opens in new windowSpecial Vascular Plants, Bryophytes, and Lichens List. Species on these lists may meet the CEQA definition of rare or endangered. As the trustee agency for the wildlife of California, which includes plants, ecological communities and the habitat upon which they depend, CDFW advises public agencies during the CEQA process to help ensure that the actions they approve do not significantly impact such resources. CDFW often advises that impacts to plant species with a California Rare Plant Rank in the Inventory be disclosed by the lead agency during project review to ensure compliance with CEQA.

    Natural Community Conservation Planning Act
    The NCCPA allows for the development of broad-based ecosystem-level plans for the protection and perpetuation of biological diversity. The primary objective of Natural Community Conservation Plans prepared under the NCCPA is to conserve natural communities at the ecosystem level while accommodating compatible land use. Plants protected under an approved Natural Community Conservation Plan may be “taken” by activities covered under the plan, but also typically receive a large amount of conservation and protection.

    California Desert Native Plants Act
    The purpose of the CDNPA is to protect certain species of California desert native plants from unlawful harvesting on both public and privately owned lands. The CDNPA only applies within the boundaries of Imperial, Inyo, Kern, Los Angeles, Mono, Riverside, San Bernardino, and San Diego Counties. Within these counties, the CDNPA prohibits the harvest, transport, sale, or possession of specific native desert plants unless a person has a valid permit or wood receipt, and the required tags and seals. The appropriate permits, tags and seals must be obtained from the sheriff or commissioner of the county where collecting will occur, and the county will charge a fee. More information on the CDNPA, including the species protected under the law, is available by reading the provisions of the law.

    Landowner permission
    Under link opens in new windowCalifornia Penal Code Section 384a a person shall not willfully or negligently cut, destroy, mutilate, or remove plant material that is growing upon state or county highway rights-of-way. In addition, a person shall not willfully or negligently cut, destroy, mutilate, or remove plant material that is growing upon public land or upon land that is not his or hers without a written permit from the owner of the land, signed by the owner of the land or the owner’s authorized agent. In addition, removing or damaging plants from property that a person does not own without permission may constitute trespass and/or petty theft.
  • Kex
    Kex Posts: 4,893
    None of those are pertinent to the current situation: wildfire mitigation, nor do they seem particularly unreasonable. They basically seem to state that thou shalt not enter into Joshua Tree National Park and willfully destroy cactus plants (which actually happened during the government shutdown). If laws like those did not exist, you’d have people driving off into the Angeles National Forest cutting down trees to sell for firewood.

    Unless you can post an actual bill from an official source, it probably isn’t even accurate.

    Everyone loves to hate California. Did it ever occur to you that if you posted such anti-American diatribes, you would be considered unpatriotic? Ask not what California can do for you, ask what you can do for California.
    Alea jacta est!
  • afterburnt
    afterburnt Posts: 7,892
    Look man, I like destroying endangered species as much as the next guy but to imply that I am anti-Armenian is beyond the pale! I think you owe me an apology.
  • Kex
    Kex Posts: 4,893
    Okay... so that’s just racist.
    Alea jacta est!
  • afterburnt
    afterburnt Posts: 7,892
    Racist? I obey all speed limit laws! Are you bucking for a defamation suit?
  • Burnt, no offense but you would be right at home in Waste Virgina.

    Where are you moving when you leave CA?
    2 channel: Anthem 225 Integrated amp; Parasound Ztuner; TechnicsTT SL1350; Vincent PHO-8 phono pre; Marantz CD6005 spinner; Polk SDA2BTL's; LAT International speaker cables, ZU Mission IC's and power cables all into a PS Audio Dectet Power center.

    Other; M10 series II, M7C's, Hafler XL600 amp, RB-980BX, Parasound HCA-1500 amp , P5 preamp, all in storage. All vintage Polk have had crossover rebuilds and tweeter upgrades.

    The best way to predict the future is to invent it.

    It is imperative that we recognize that an opinion is not a fact.

    Imagine making politics your entire personality.
  • Kex
    Kex Posts: 4,893
    Probably somewhere with low taxes and high hate speech.
    Alea jacta est!
  • afterburnt
    afterburnt Posts: 7,892
    edited October 2019
    Burnt, no offense but you would be right at home in Waste Virgina.

    Where are you moving when you leave CA?

    W.Va. would be cool. General Yeager and Randy Moss are from there! I am just going to Arizona though.

    The only good things that ever came from Arizona are Barry Goldwater and Toni Tennille.
  • Kex
    Kex Posts: 4,893
    edited October 2019
    Nice and toasty.

    P.S. I love everywhere (well, almost), so I could be very happy in Arizona. For me it is more about the people I frequent, the vittles, and the beverages (preferably of an ancient vintage) that I consume.
    Alea jacta est!
  • ^^ Burnt is already there.
    2 channel: Anthem 225 Integrated amp; Parasound Ztuner; TechnicsTT SL1350; Vincent PHO-8 phono pre; Marantz CD6005 spinner; Polk SDA2BTL's; LAT International speaker cables, ZU Mission IC's and power cables all into a PS Audio Dectet Power center.

    Other; M10 series II, M7C's, Hafler XL600 amp, RB-980BX, Parasound HCA-1500 amp , P5 preamp, all in storage. All vintage Polk have had crossover rebuilds and tweeter upgrades.

    The best way to predict the future is to invent it.

    It is imperative that we recognize that an opinion is not a fact.

    Imagine making politics your entire personality.
  • Kex
    Kex Posts: 4,893
    No pun intended, of course! 😂
    Alea jacta est!
  • Kex
    Kex Posts: 4,893
    Seven pages of this stuff, and @BlueFox didn’t even have to sacrifice a single night of beer or listening pleasure. I’m actually rather jealous that he is able to find that much time to just listen and enjoy on such wonderful equipment...
    Alea jacta est!
  • Deltadon
    Deltadon Posts: 94
    edited October 2019
    Kex wrote: »
    Deltadon wrote: »
    PSPS is the acronym for “Public Safety Power Shutoff”.
    New Ca law (enacted by PUC and signed by Gov Newsome) REQUIRES utilities (ALL, not just PG&E) to de-energize areas that face severe wind threat/ fire risk. [...]
    Multiply this by 50K square miles.

    This was the narrative posted as an opinion commentary in a couple of places.
    Yes, this has been posted twice already in this thread, and it is obviously all over the internet, but it is pure fabrication with a political intent. Fake news masquerading as the real thing.

    The only statement that is partially true is that power lines cannot be turned on with the flick of a switch. There are laws of electrical engineering regarding load management and other issues involved.

    The following documentation should shed light on this issue:

    The California Public Utilities Commission website discusses the need for and permission given to utilities for "de-energization" or Public Safety Power Shut-offs (PSPS), to protect public safety under California law, specifically California Public Utilities Code (PU Code) Sections 451 and 399.2(a).

    Public Utilities Commission Resolution ESRB-8 states:
    SAFETY CONSIDERATIONS:
    De-energizing electric facilities during dangerous conditions can save lives and property and can prevent wildfires. This resolution provides guidelines that IOUs must follow and strengthens public safety requirements when an IOU decides to de-energize its facilities during dangerous conditions.

    The change in the law is reflected in Senate Bill No. 901 CHAPTER 626
    SEC. 38. Section 8386 of the Public Utilities Code is amended to read:

    (6) Protocols for disabling reclosers and deenergizing portions of the electrical distribution system that consider the associated impacts on public safety, as well as protocols related to mitigating the public safety impacts of those protocols, including impacts on critical first responders and on health and communication infrastructure.

    So it is clear that the state government and utilities agree by law on this PSPS strategy that is initiated and carried out by the utilities to protect public safety.

    PG&E's plan required by this law is here.
  • Kex
    Kex Posts: 4,893
    Once again. These are guidelines. Nowhere does it state that a utility can be required by law to shut off power.
    Alea jacta est!
  • afterburnt
    afterburnt Posts: 7,892
    ^^ Burnt is already there.

    Hey Chauncey, I think you just offended me. Unless you meant Arizona, I won't be there until probably June maybe sooner. I am still being paid to **** myself out and stay in Cali. I would consider leaving sooner but my daughter just moved in with me because her mom's a jerk, but that's my fault. Anyway if you did offend me I may just sue you too!
  • Kex
    Kex Posts: 4,893
    edited October 2019
    Go for it! I got the popcorn! Might be a VERY short legal altercation though...
    Alea jacta est!
  • afterburnt
    afterburnt Posts: 7,892
    Kex wrote: »
    Go for it! I got the popcorn! Might be a VERY short legal altercation though...

    I am already suing you, Expect a letter from the firm of "Dewy, Screwem, and Howe" they will drink your milkshake!