Equipment Racks

13468919

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  • Viking64Viking64 Posts: 3,820
    From what I can see, there seems to be a combination of 2 or 3 issues, any or all of which are contributing to the alignment issues. If the spikes can't screw down flush to the caps, that will create one issue. If the caps aren't seated correctly, that will create another issue and/or add to the first issue. Also, based on some of the images, it seems like the frame has some kind of warping/torquing issue.

    Have you tried rotating the frame 180 degrees to see if that changes anything? If the frame isn't square, that certainly should have some impact.
  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 6,581
    edited February 2018
    Thanks for the suggestion. I'm going to hold off on irreversibly modifying anything as I don't know if I will need to send back the frame.

    Also, at the risk of sounding like a whiny snobby jerk, I don't feel that I should have to break out the tool box and start attempting to physically alter and modify a brand new equipment rack, in order to simply get it to look and perform as it does in the marketing photographs on VTI's website.
    kharp1 wrote: »
    I'm kind of thinking like Marvin, I believe that if you put some weight on it things will line up. You could put a piece of tape, or cloth, over the burr and tap lightly with a regular hammer to knock the burr down. To be more precise, you could use a bolt as a "set" and place the tip of the bolt on the burr and then hammer the head of the bolt thereby knocking the burr down.

    • "Electronic music is human sound adapting to indulge technology, and for some, it feels like the signature sound of energy. New and abstract sounds over hypnotic rhythms can conjure vast soundscapes for escape, pleasure, and transcendence."
  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 6,581
    Correct. You've accurately and succinctly described the situation.

    The frame cannot really be rotated permanently as a solution, because there are two unsightly bolt holes on the rear of the frame which are meant to remain out of sight. But, I went and tried it just now and it results in the misaligned pole sections reversing where they were previously misaligned.
    Viking64 wrote: »
    From what I can see, there seems to be a combination of 2 or 3 issues, any or all of which are contributing to the alignment issues. If the spikes can't screw down flush to the caps, that will create one issue. If the caps aren't seated correctly, that will create another issue and/or add to the first issue. Also, based on some of the images, it seems like the frame has some kind of warping/torquing issue.

    Have you tried rotating the frame 180 degrees to see if that changes anything? If the frame isn't square, that certainly should have some impact.

    • "Electronic music is human sound adapting to indulge technology, and for some, it feels like the signature sound of energy. New and abstract sounds over hypnotic rhythms can conjure vast soundscapes for escape, pleasure, and transcendence."
  • Viking64Viking64 Posts: 3,820
    Clipdat wrote: »
    Correct. You've accurately and succinctly described the situation.

    The frame cannot really be rotated permanently as a solution, because there are two unsightly bolt holes on the rear of the frame which are meant to remain out of sight. But, I went and tried it just now and it results in the misaligned pole sections reversing where they were previously misaligned.

    Ah, that makes sense. Front is front. Back is back. And the poles are messed up.

    One last suggestion: Would pairing the upper and lower frames in a different order do anything or do they need to be where they currently sit for aesthetics and/or functionality?
  • Joey_VJoey_V Posts: 7,012
    Now we know why those really expensive racks cost so much.

    I have VTI, no issues like this.

    Good luck clipdat, not sure what to do next
    Joey's Gear:
    Current Gear:
    Torus RM15 -> Emm Labs DAC2x and TSDX Transport -> Cary SLP-05 preamp -> Boulder 2060 stereo amp (w/ Audioquest WEL Signature) -> new speakers
    Rotel RA1592 Super Integrated -> Sonus Faber Olympica 3
    Rotel RC1570 preamp -> Rotel RB1582 amp -> Focal Kanta 2

    Old Gear:
    Speakers: BW PM1 (3.5/5), CM10s2 (3.75/5), BW800D3 (5/5), Rockport Aviors (5/5), Sonus Faber Stradivari (5/5), BW 802D2 (4.5/5), Martin Logan Summits (4.25/5), Martin Logan Vantage (4/5), Sonus Faber Cremona Auditor (3.75/5), AV123 Strata Mini (3.5/5), ML Mosaic (3.25/5), Onix Ref1 (3/5), Sonus Faber Concerto (2.75/5), SF Concertino (2.5/5), Axiom M22ti (2/5), Polk LSi9 (3/5), LSi7 (2.9/5)
    Source: Squeezebox 3 -> PS Audio Digital Link III -> Cary 306/200 CDP -> Cary 306 SACD -> EMM LABS DAC2X/TSDX
    Preamplification: Rotel RC1070 -> Rogue Perseus -> Cary SLP98 -> Cary SLP98F1 -> Cary SLP05 (sold and then repurchased)
    Amplification: HK AVR330 -> Rotel RB1070 -> Rotel RB1090 -> Plinius SA102 -> Cary 211FE -> Classe M600 -> Boulder 2060
    Subwoofer: Infinity Entra2 sub -> SVS 25-31PC+ sub
  • SCompRacerSCompRacer Posts: 7,125
    edited February 2018
    Clipdat wrote: »
    The frame cannot really be rotated permanently as a solution, because there are two unsightly bolt holes on the rear of the frame which are meant to remain out of sight.

    Those holes are for securing the optional rear grid panel. It's included on some racks but can be purchased separately.

    hgfgbdu7tcfb.jpg

    Make yourself necessary to someone. Ralph Waldo Emerson

    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ & Pro 11+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS* Twisted Pear Buffalo III Dual Mono ESS Sabre32 DAC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *

  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 6,581
    It's fully "modular" so I just tried to go rearrange it and it didn't make a difference. The new frame's alignment is still off.

    I really thought that this replacement frame would be the ticket, as the others are lining up nicely.

    The only issue with the other frames is that there's one slightly skewed/crooked spike due to another thread bur on that frame, which I could live with since it's one of the rear ones - as long as it doesn't affect the structural integrity.
    Viking64 wrote: »
    Ah, that makes sense. Front is front. Back is back. And the poles are messed up.

    One last suggestion: Would pairing the upper and lower frames in a different order do anything or do they need to be where they currently sit for aesthetics and/or functionality?

    • "Electronic music is human sound adapting to indulge technology, and for some, it feels like the signature sound of energy. New and abstract sounds over hypnotic rhythms can conjure vast soundscapes for escape, pleasure, and transcendence."
  • Viking64Viking64 Posts: 3,820
    It is too bad it is being such a pain. It really is a nice-looking rack in SComp's picture. :/
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 41,729
    If a rack flexes from the weight of gear placed on it, it's not doing the job it was meant to do.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


  • DSkipDSkip Posts: 15,756
    Could be a bad batch of that size.
  • DaveHoDaveHo Posts: 2,287
    Firstly, I agree that you shouldn't have to massage a brand new rack to get it to perform as designed. That said, if you are determined to get it to work out, I'd get a file designed for metal to knock the burr down. Apply heavy tape as needed to prevent scratching the surrounding cap. Any other alignment issues can probably be solved with putting some muscle into it & bending the legs as needed. If that's not appealing, I'd insist that VTI yank the next replacement out of the box and inspect it before shipping. If they won't, time to send the whole shebang back.
  • verbverb Posts: 6,278
    edited February 2018
    SCompRacer wrote: »
    Clipdat wrote: »
    The frame cannot really be rotated permanently as a solution, because there are two unsightly bolt holes on the rear of the frame which are meant to remain out of sight.

    Those holes are for securing the optional rear grid panel. It's included on some racks but can be purchased separately.

    hgfgbdu7tcfb.jpg

    Hey @SCompRacer what is the tube for? Hmmm. :confounded:
    Basement: Polk SDA SRS, Cary SLP-05 Pre, Enlightened Audio Designs CD Transport, Northstar Designs Excelsio DAC, Silnote Morpheus Ref2 Digital Cable, Marantz SA-14 SACD, McIntosh MC300 Amp, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Pangea Power Cables, Wireworld Oasis 8 RCA IC's, MIT Shotgun S3 IC's, MIT Shotgun S1 Bi-Wire speaker cables
    Office: PC, Marantz CD-1, Marantz AMP-1, Denon UDR-F10 Cassette, Acoustic Technologies Classic Speakers, SVS SB12 Plus Subwoofer, MIT AVt2 speaker cables, IFI Purifier2, AQ Cinnamon USB cable, Groneberg Quatro Reference IC's
    Spare Room: , Antique Sound Labs Wave AV-8 Monoblocks, Tisbury Mini Passive Pre, Tjoeb 99 tube CD player (modified Marantz CD-38), Analysis Plus Oval 9's, Zu Jumpers, AudioEngine B1 Streamer, Klipsch RB-61 v2, SVS PB1000 su, Blue Jeans RCA IC's
    Living Room: Pioneer SX-N30 Network Receiver, Pioneer PD10AE CD Player, Furman M8-LX Power Conditioner, Polk RT265 In Wall Speakers, Polk DSW Pro 660wi Subwoofer
  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 6,581
    edited February 2018
    That's his unicorn-fart valve exhaust port. That's what makes his system sound so good. I guess the secret is out now.
    verb wrote: »
    Hey @SCompRacer what is the tube for? Hmmm. :confounded:

    • "Electronic music is human sound adapting to indulge technology, and for some, it feels like the signature sound of energy. New and abstract sounds over hypnotic rhythms can conjure vast soundscapes for escape, pleasure, and transcendence."
  • DSkipDSkip Posts: 15,756
    Probably for the turntable.
  • verbverb Posts: 6,278
    Clipdat wrote: »
    That's his unicorn-fart valve exhaust port. That's what makes his system sound so good. I guess the secret is out now.
    verb wrote: »
    Hey @SCompRacer what is the tube for? Hmmm. :confounded:

    Thanks goodness. I was thinking catheter. :cold_sweat:
    Basement: Polk SDA SRS, Cary SLP-05 Pre, Enlightened Audio Designs CD Transport, Northstar Designs Excelsio DAC, Silnote Morpheus Ref2 Digital Cable, Marantz SA-14 SACD, McIntosh MC300 Amp, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Pangea Power Cables, Wireworld Oasis 8 RCA IC's, MIT Shotgun S3 IC's, MIT Shotgun S1 Bi-Wire speaker cables
    Office: PC, Marantz CD-1, Marantz AMP-1, Denon UDR-F10 Cassette, Acoustic Technologies Classic Speakers, SVS SB12 Plus Subwoofer, MIT AVt2 speaker cables, IFI Purifier2, AQ Cinnamon USB cable, Groneberg Quatro Reference IC's
    Spare Room: , Antique Sound Labs Wave AV-8 Monoblocks, Tisbury Mini Passive Pre, Tjoeb 99 tube CD player (modified Marantz CD-38), Analysis Plus Oval 9's, Zu Jumpers, AudioEngine B1 Streamer, Klipsch RB-61 v2, SVS PB1000 su, Blue Jeans RCA IC's
    Living Room: Pioneer SX-N30 Network Receiver, Pioneer PD10AE CD Player, Furman M8-LX Power Conditioner, Polk RT265 In Wall Speakers, Polk DSW Pro 660wi Subwoofer
  • We have decided to drop VTI as a manufacturer we represent. After this problem with their racks, it seems the quality is not there any longer. I can understand a problem with one rack, but to have the same problem with the replacement is unacceptable. So, if you are looking for AV racks right now, we won't be able to help you. Would love to hear from you if you have suggestions about a good AV rack and speaker stand manufacturer.
    Sunfire Theater Grand IV
    Sunfire Cinema Grand Signature
    SRS 2.1TL
    SDA 2BTL's
    CSiA6
    FXiA4
    FXiA6
    SDA 2A's
    Monitor 10A's

    http://www.douglasconnection.com
  • DSkipDSkip Posts: 15,756
    Inexpensive, quality racks are hard to come by. That's the reason I don't carry any right now.
  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 6,581
    Solidsteel might be worthy to look into: http://solidsteel.it/s-series-hi-fi-tv-racks-speaker-stands/
    Would love to hear from you if you have suggestions about a good AV rack and speaker stand manufacturer.

    • "Electronic music is human sound adapting to indulge technology, and for some, it feels like the signature sound of energy. New and abstract sounds over hypnotic rhythms can conjure vast soundscapes for escape, pleasure, and transcendence."
  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 6,581
    Thank you Doug for your support through this ordeal, and for communicating with VTI on my behalf.

    As you mentioned, the replacement frame still had alignment issues, as illustrated here with these photos I took of it:

    t5y3bb1xib6u.jpg
    68wdui07a02p.jpg
    sxff3o1cysd4.jpg

    Compared to a section that does line up as it should:

    xsdjabswnvt0.jpg

    While Doug did his best, and VTI did offer to send out another replacement frame section, I've ultimately decided not to keep trying new frame sections and just move forward with the rack as is.

    It was frustrating to have to make this decision, as I feel that for the price, the quality should simply be better. The rack itself has good engineering and design principles, but unfortunately the execution of the design is severely lacking.

    The rationale behind my decision to keep it, is that I could be trying a new frame section every week, and I'm guessing that each one would have some issues with it that would need to be addressed. The sad reality is that the product that VTI is pushing out today is simply not the same as what they've put out in the past.

    At this point, I'd rather just put what I have to use and get my stereo system back up and running so I can get back to enjoying my gear.
    We have decided to drop VTI as a manufacturer we represent. After this problem with their racks, it seems the quality is not there any longer. I can understand a problem with one rack, but to have the same problem with the replacement is unacceptable.

    • "Electronic music is human sound adapting to indulge technology, and for some, it feels like the signature sound of energy. New and abstract sounds over hypnotic rhythms can conjure vast soundscapes for escape, pleasure, and transcendence."
  • SCompRacerSCompRacer Posts: 7,125
    edited February 2018
    verb wrote: »

    Hey @SCompRacer what is the tube for? Hmmm. :confounded:

    I'm old and need oxygen every now and then? I do part time work for a funeral home? It attaches to a bong?

    Skip is right, it's for the air bearing linear arm on the turntable. It starts in basement at compressor, exits through media plate into a filer/expansion tank that smooth's out the air pump pulses, up the back of rack to arm. I have a remote to switch compressor on so I don't have to run downstairs.


    lxm6cbcgnb8a.jpg


    Make yourself necessary to someone. Ralph Waldo Emerson

    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ & Pro 11+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS* Twisted Pear Buffalo III Dual Mono ESS Sabre32 DAC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *

  • Joey_VJoey_V Posts: 7,012
    Sorry to hear, maybe it was a bad batch.

    I looked mine over again, everything is aligned.... I have to believe that over time VTI gets better at producing racks rather than worse.
    Joey's Gear:
    Current Gear:
    Torus RM15 -> Emm Labs DAC2x and TSDX Transport -> Cary SLP-05 preamp -> Boulder 2060 stereo amp (w/ Audioquest WEL Signature) -> new speakers
    Rotel RA1592 Super Integrated -> Sonus Faber Olympica 3
    Rotel RC1570 preamp -> Rotel RB1582 amp -> Focal Kanta 2

    Old Gear:
    Speakers: BW PM1 (3.5/5), CM10s2 (3.75/5), BW800D3 (5/5), Rockport Aviors (5/5), Sonus Faber Stradivari (5/5), BW 802D2 (4.5/5), Martin Logan Summits (4.25/5), Martin Logan Vantage (4/5), Sonus Faber Cremona Auditor (3.75/5), AV123 Strata Mini (3.5/5), ML Mosaic (3.25/5), Onix Ref1 (3/5), Sonus Faber Concerto (2.75/5), SF Concertino (2.5/5), Axiom M22ti (2/5), Polk LSi9 (3/5), LSi7 (2.9/5)
    Source: Squeezebox 3 -> PS Audio Digital Link III -> Cary 306/200 CDP -> Cary 306 SACD -> EMM LABS DAC2X/TSDX
    Preamplification: Rotel RC1070 -> Rogue Perseus -> Cary SLP98 -> Cary SLP98F1 -> Cary SLP05 (sold and then repurchased)
    Amplification: HK AVR330 -> Rotel RB1070 -> Rotel RB1090 -> Plinius SA102 -> Cary 211FE -> Classe M600 -> Boulder 2060
    Subwoofer: Infinity Entra2 sub -> SVS 25-31PC+ sub
  • stangman67stangman67 Posts: 1,170
    Or they sold out and started using cheaper manufacturing to eithere a) raise the profit margin or b) account for inflation without significantly raising their prices. I just looked over my rack again and a few of my spikes are angled as clipdat’s pictures show, just not as bad. Mine lined up fine when I put it all together although. It’s a shame their quality has fallen off so much
    2 Channel - Major reduction complete

    KEF LS50W I Rega P6 w/ Ania MC I Rega Fono MC I Audience Ohno ICs


  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 6,581
    Finally putting my equipment on the VTI rack tonight, and after I put my turntable on the top shelf, I notice the dust cover is picking up vibrations just from me walking near the rack.

    Then I realized the whole rack would undulate and rapidly shimmy back and forth from me just lightly pushing on the top shelf/frame.

    I made a video of me just lightly pushing against the shelf and you can see the resulting vibration undulation through the dust cover of the turntable. You can actually see the waves of vibration dissipate slowly.

    Why is it doing this? I thought the point of an audio rack was to reduce vibration.

    • "Electronic music is human sound adapting to indulge technology, and for some, it feels like the signature sound of energy. New and abstract sounds over hypnotic rhythms can conjure vast soundscapes for escape, pleasure, and transcendence."
  • stangman67stangman67 Posts: 1,170
    The spikes are adjustable to make sure there is equal contact on all 4 corners. The spikes will most likely not all be bottomed out in order for the shelves to be solid. It seems you just don’t have contact on all 4 corners of the shelf on all shelf
    2 Channel - Major reduction complete

    KEF LS50W I Rega P6 w/ Ania MC I Rega Fono MC I Audience Ohno ICs


  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 6,581
    The turntable weighs 30 pounds, and the other shelfs all have gear on them as well. There's absolutely contact on all 4 corners of each shelf section.

    It wasn't as dramatic until I put the TT on top. I think what's happening here is that each "spike and cup" section is acting like a mini springboard. When I press against the front of the rack and create lateral vibration energy, it has to dissipate. It dissipates by rapidly going back and forth until the energy is gone.

    There's actually movement happening in the rack frame itself that I couldn't easily pick up in a video.

    It's basically acting like a car's suspension. The sensation when you're driving and suddenly press and hold on the brake, and keep it held - when you come to a stop, the front end suspension compresses, and then that energy rapidly travels to the rear, and then to the front, and to the rear, and on and on until it fully dissipates. Like a shimmy/undulation effect.
    stangman67 wrote: »
    The spikes are adjustable to make sure there is equal contact on all 4 corners. The spikes will most likely not all be bottomed out in order for the shelves to be solid. It seems you just don’t have contact on all 4 corners of the shelf on all shelf

    • "Electronic music is human sound adapting to indulge technology, and for some, it feels like the signature sound of energy. New and abstract sounds over hypnotic rhythms can conjure vast soundscapes for escape, pleasure, and transcendence."
  • Joey_VJoey_V Posts: 7,012
    Are there felt absorbers between the shelf and the frame?
    Joey's Gear:
    Current Gear:
    Torus RM15 -> Emm Labs DAC2x and TSDX Transport -> Cary SLP-05 preamp -> Boulder 2060 stereo amp (w/ Audioquest WEL Signature) -> new speakers
    Rotel RA1592 Super Integrated -> Sonus Faber Olympica 3
    Rotel RC1570 preamp -> Rotel RB1582 amp -> Focal Kanta 2

    Old Gear:
    Speakers: BW PM1 (3.5/5), CM10s2 (3.75/5), BW800D3 (5/5), Rockport Aviors (5/5), Sonus Faber Stradivari (5/5), BW 802D2 (4.5/5), Martin Logan Summits (4.25/5), Martin Logan Vantage (4/5), Sonus Faber Cremona Auditor (3.75/5), AV123 Strata Mini (3.5/5), ML Mosaic (3.25/5), Onix Ref1 (3/5), Sonus Faber Concerto (2.75/5), SF Concertino (2.5/5), Axiom M22ti (2/5), Polk LSi9 (3/5), LSi7 (2.9/5)
    Source: Squeezebox 3 -> PS Audio Digital Link III -> Cary 306/200 CDP -> Cary 306 SACD -> EMM LABS DAC2X/TSDX
    Preamplification: Rotel RC1070 -> Rogue Perseus -> Cary SLP98 -> Cary SLP98F1 -> Cary SLP05 (sold and then repurchased)
    Amplification: HK AVR330 -> Rotel RB1070 -> Rotel RB1090 -> Plinius SA102 -> Cary 211FE -> Classe M600 -> Boulder 2060
    Subwoofer: Infinity Entra2 sub -> SVS 25-31PC+ sub
  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 6,581
    Yes
    Joey_V wrote: »
    Are there felt absorbers between the shelf and the frame?

    • "Electronic music is human sound adapting to indulge technology, and for some, it feels like the signature sound of energy. New and abstract sounds over hypnotic rhythms can conjure vast soundscapes for escape, pleasure, and transcendence."
  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 6,581
    edited March 2018
    Found someone on another forum describing the exact same thing I'm experiencing:

    "The VTI racks are nice looking and very reasonably priced, but I would caution against their use for a high-end setup featuring speakers and/or vinyl. My local dealer has 4 of the short VTI units holding some seriously nice VAC, Esoteric, and Rogue Audio gear, with a turntable on top; this configuration has no lateral rigidity. You push a little against the top shelf, and the whole stack oscillates significantly for quite a while. The worst combination ever is this rack with one of those Clearaudio magnetic-bearing tonearms up top (I hate these arms, btw) -- talk about egregious low-frequency oscillations!"
    • "Electronic music is human sound adapting to indulge technology, and for some, it feels like the signature sound of energy. New and abstract sounds over hypnotic rhythms can conjure vast soundscapes for escape, pleasure, and transcendence."
  • stangman67stangman67 Posts: 1,170
    All I can tell you is that mine is solid as a rock. I do have the shorter two wide versio though,
    2 Channel - Major reduction complete

    KEF LS50W I Rega P6 w/ Ania MC I Rega Fono MC I Audience Ohno ICs


  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 6,581
    Maybe it's because yours is two posts in front and one in the rear, like a tripod style.
    stangman67 wrote: »
    All I can tell you is that mine is solid as a rock. I do have the shorter two wide versio though,

    • "Electronic music is human sound adapting to indulge technology, and for some, it feels like the signature sound of energy. New and abstract sounds over hypnotic rhythms can conjure vast soundscapes for escape, pleasure, and transcendence."
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