This place is dead
Comments
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This place is dead
I told you this would happen, but you wouldn't listen.Moose68Bash wrote: »I'm just ruminating. I, too, have noticed that activity on the Forum has declined dramatically -- especially recently. But I'm not sure it is Vanilla.
It may just be the natural rhythm of life, so to speak.
I have noticed a dramatic decline in activity on this, and several other performance oriented audio forums I frequent:
1. Computer Audiophile.
2. Audio Circle.
3. The High End Audio sub-forums at AVS.
I attribute the decline in activity to several things, none of which have anything to do with Vanilla.
In my case, as with many of the regularly contributing members here, I have upgraded and tweaked and tweaked and tweaked until there is nothing left to do but go in a different direction with new gear...or just sit and listen and enjoy.
Three of my home systems (home theater, home office, and master bedroom) were downgraded to smaller, lower performing systems with fewer separate components and much, much smaller speakers.
Most of the frequent contributors to this forum are high performance two channel audio enthusiasts, and, as we all know, there really isn't much that's new and exciting in the world of high end two channel audio.
If we were to get things popping again, I think we would need to shift the focus of the forum away from high performance two channel audio (with its horribly expensive cables and separate components
), and toward receivers, inexpensive loudspeakers, and *choke* mobile audio.
Another major issue is that participation in an audio forum requires writing, and writing requires thinking. Baby boomers were the LAST widely literate generation this country produced. The concept of communicating a body of coherent thoughts in written form is rapidly becoming a lost art in a world of cool one liners and quick quips on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and Snapchat. My academic colleagues from around the country constantly complain that their students HATE to write. Based on this trend, and the fact that I don't see a new generation of high performance audio enthusiasts coming up, I foresee audio forums becoming more social media-ish and blatantly marketing oriented in structure, or going away altogether.
Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country! -
Dang Raife look at the big brain coming here and throwing down logic
. Problem i cant get past 120 characters the rest hurt my head. Who needs to write when they can dictate into the phone geesh
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I found some comments by @K_M and @DSkip intriguing. I hope they will provide further insight.The part you guys are not "digesting" is that Many older members are the actual ones that wanted the forum to change, and how the behavour was to change.
They would NOT post their true feelings openly in the forum as I do. You are making a huge assumption that everyone that has been here a while all agrees and is of the same mindset.
Your profile indicates that you have been a member of this forum since February 2016. I find it odd that "other long term members" were afraid to discuss their views in the forum, yet placed such confidence in a member who had only been around for a few months. Why were these "long term members" so trusting of a relative newcomer, yet "afraid" to express their views in open forum? I mean, what was there to be afraid of? This forum doesn't send "enforcers" to someone's home if they have a different, or even controversial, viewpoint.
Other questions:
1. How many "long term members" expressed to you that they were living in fear?
2. What changes did they want made and did they discuss them with Polk's management?And the other problem I see, many longer term members here repeat the same stuff over and over again, right or wrong, and other long term members not wanting to rock the boat or argue openly in the forum, simply say nothing or never disagree for fear of being bashed or made fun of.
If long term members are repeating wrong information, other members have the right to present a corrective rebuttal and to cite any and all substantiating documentation. That's what I do in my professional life, personal life, and on Internet forums. I really do not get this "living in fear" mentality on an AUDIO FORUM of all places. It's not as if anything said on this forum has any effect on anyone's real life.
When I became a member of this forum, in July 2001, there were some members who ridiculed me for my use of "old", "outdated" SDA loudspeakers. I responded, in technical detail, with the stereophonic performance benefits of SDA loudspeakers. Furthermore, I expounded on how the performance of SDA loudspeakers could be further enhanced by upgrades. Lastly, I really couldn't have cared less if someone laughs at my choice of audio equipment. I like what I like.
I recall from several of our discussions that, when you were asked to provide a technical justification for a position you held, you either rested to the "authority" of others who held your viewpoint or you simply refused to answer. Your concept of "debate" seems to be "accept my views because they are what has been accepted by many for a long time".I know some members who don't like how 'normal operations' happen around here. I know some who are members but never post because of it. K_M is not off base on that statement and I respect her enough for not 'outing' said members.
What are these "normal operations" you speak of and how many members never post because of them? I ask because I have never, in the 16+ years I have been here, been afraid to speak my mind...and I have expressed some extremely controversial opinions, positions, and points of view here.Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country! -
I ain't saying peep around here, you guys scare me.
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First this place is dead, now this thread seems to be........
Sheesh! I post for the first time in a million years, and I get the "Ah yes, Kex ..." welcome mat from Jesse!
Some of the sentiments expressed by @DarqueKnight do seem pertinent to the original topic, in suggesting, as I understand it, that a lot of the proactive customer service may have to switch to social media and platforms such as Twitter, no matter how technically limited they may be. Complaints on such platforms create visibility, and corporations like to shut such negative communication down as soon as they can by offering help. A lot of complaints that draw attention there tend to solicit "please contact us privately by PM so we can help resolve your issue" type messaging. This looks good publicly, without inviting a free for all deluge of requests for refunds or whatever.
There were also some very interesting points raised about the "family" atmosphere, and the exploration of audio encouraged in Club Polk. I can only agree with the sentiments expressed therein, even if I don't have any time whatsoever for exploration myself these past few years.
In fact, it was the perceived betrayal of family that bothered me so much with what I stated earlier in regards to George Grand (of the Jersey Grands), and I cannot overstate the sense of betrayal I felt at the time. I don't think I even looked at Club Polk for another twelve months after his untimely demise because of it, and maybe that caused me to miss this Auction for George Grand thread. I'm not at all surprised by this in hindsight. It's the Club Polk that I thought I once knew, and I can only imagine how much time and effort were necessary to help this come to fruition.
On the other hand, there is this recent Customer Service request, which was met with a considerable amount of derision and hostility. The unhappy customer was more or less told to take a hike, and the sooner the better. Personally, I tend to think the customer should have received a better answer to his plight, at least in how it was conveyed, no matter how justifiable the initial response he received may be. The very fact that he perceived the Club Polk respondents here as "fanboys" is almost the ultimate insult in and of itself, but in any case, it should have been possible to simply forward the complaint quietly, and see what could be done, rather than "pile on". As it was, even though the customer may have eventually received the compensation he desired in the end (reading from the content of the thread), he may yet have been left with the impression that he was hounded off the forum as if he had stolen something.
Club Polk is certainly quite a different beast from AVS in my experience, but I stand by what I wrote previously: something may yet be rotten in the state of Denmark.
Still, I personally would venture that all is not lost. Far from it.Alea jacta est! -
Some of the sentiments expressed by @DarqueKnight do seem pertinent to the original topic, in suggesting, as I understand it, that a lot of the proactive customer service may have to switch to social media and platforms such as Twitter, no matter how technically limited they may be.
I was not speaking in terms of moving customer service to social media platforms. I doubt if Polk would be willing or able to commit the human and financial resources that such an implementation would require. I was speaking in terms of audio forums, as we know them today, being replaced by social media type outlets where only very short messages are allowed.In fact, it was the perceived betrayal of family that bothered me so much with what I stated earlier in regards to George Grand (of the Jersey Grands), and I cannot overstate the sense of betrayal I felt at the time.
I do not recall this situation. Can you PM me a link? Thanks.On the other hand, there is this recent Customer Service request, which was met with a considerable amount of derision and hostility. The unhappy customer was more or less told to take a hike, and the sooner the better. Personally, I tend to think the customer should have received a better answer to his plight, at least in how it was conveyed, no matter how justifiable the initial response he received may be.
@DSkip and @msg provided very courteous and detailed responses to the customer's inquiry. Then, very surprisingly, @nooshinjohn went completely above and beyond by offering to send the customer the $7 refund he felt he was owed. I would never, in the farthest reaches of my imagination, expect a random forum member, who was a total stranger to me, to offer a refund pertaining to my customer service issue. The conversation should have ended right there. The customer's subsequent replies were very childish in nature and, in my opinion, he received far better "customer care" than his attitude warranted. He was only told to "take a hike" after he derisively refused the refund offered, from a forum member, and after he became abusive.The very fact that he perceived the Club Polk respondents here as "fanboys" is almost the ultimate insult in and of itself, but in any case, it should have been possible to simply forward the complaint quietly, and see what could be done, rather than "pile on".
Well, I would expect to find a bunch of Klipsch fanboys at a corporate-sponsored Klipsch forum and I would expect to find a bunch of Polk fanboys at a corporate-sponsored Polk forum. "Fanboy" is not a insulting term. It just means you are obsessive about something. It would not be incorrect to call me a fanboy for Polk speakers, Pass Labs amplifiers and AudioQuest cables. However, considering the tone of the customer's replies, I do think agree that he meant it in an insulting way, but he was only making himself look silly. Why wouldn't there be Polk fanboys on a Polk forum?As it was, even though the customer may have eventually received the compensation he desired in the end (reading from the content of the thread), he may yet have been left with the impression that he was hounded off the forum as if he had stolen something.
Here's what I don't like: Someone comes here acting a fool and then, after people here don't exhibit infinite patience, a member gets fed up "reads them their rights". The "offended party" then runs off complaining about being "mistreated".Club Polk is certainly quite a different beast from AVS in my experience, but I stand by what I wrote previously: something may yet be rotten in the state of Denmark.
I agree that CP is quite different from AVS. For one thing, CP does not have an army of moderators like AVS. The general anti-audiophile mentality at AVS is another big difference.
Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country! -
oh contraire mon frère
"It's not as if anything said on this forum has any effect on anyone's real life."
This IS my life. -
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Fail. I get your point however!
Polk has gone out of the way for me and Club Polk has been too good to me.
I can't muster up a complaint. Now, if you want to talk about how to make
things better... -
DarqueKnight wrote: »I found some comments by @K_M and @DSkip intriguing. I hope they will provide further insight.The part you guys are not "digesting" is that Many older members are the actual ones that wanted the forum to change, and how the behavour was to change.
They would NOT post their true feelings openly in the forum as I do. You are making a huge assumption that everyone that has been here a while all agrees and is of the same mindset.
Your profile indicates that you have been a member of this forum since February 2016. I find it odd that "other long term members" were afraid to discuss their views in the forum, yet placed such confidence in a member who had only been around for a few months. Why were these "long term members" so trusting of a relative newcomer, yet "afraid" to express their views in open forum? I mean, what was there to be afraid of? This forum doesn't send "enforcers" to someone's home if they have a different, or even controversial, viewpoint.
Other questions:
1. How many "long term members" expressed to you that they were living in fear?
2. What changes did they want made and did they discuss them with Polk's management?And the other problem I see, many longer term members here repeat the same stuff over and over again, right or wrong, and other long term members not wanting to rock the boat or argue openly in the forum, simply say nothing or never disagree for fear of being bashed or made fun of.
If long term members are repeating wrong information, other members have the right to present a corrective rebuttal and to cite any and all substantiating documentation. That's what I do in my professional life, personal life, and on Internet forums. I really do not get this "living in fear" mentality on an AUDIO FORUM of all places. It's not as if anything said on this forum has any effect on anyone's real life.
When I became a member of this forum, in July 2001, there were some members who ridiculed me for my use of "old", "outdated" SDA loudspeakers. I responded, in technical detail, with the stereophonic performance benefits of SDA loudspeakers. Furthermore, I expounded on how the performance of SDA loudspeakers could be further enhanced by upgrades. Lastly, I really couldn't have cared less if someone laughs at my choice of audio equipment. I like what I like.
I recall from several of our discussions that, when you were asked to provide a technical justification for a position you held, you either rested to the "authority" of others who held your viewpoint or you simply refused to answer. Your concept of "debate" seems to be "accept my views because they are what has been accepted by many for a long time".I know some members who don't like how 'normal operations' happen around here. I know some who are members but never post because of it. K_M is not off base on that statement and I respect her enough for not 'outing' said members.
What are these "normal operations" you speak of and how many members never post because of them? I ask because I have never, in the 16+ years I have been here, been afraid to speak my mind...and I have expressed some extremely controversial opinions, positions, and points of view here.
I will address a few points you made.
"living in fear"....maybe not the best choice of words to describe the situation here.
"Fear of being ridiculed", may be a more accurate term.
"Fear of Bickering" or 5 pages of insults, and tedious GIF's and silly pictures being posted that have nothing to do with the actual topic, pro or con.
As to how many. I am not positive now as regards to an actual number, but for sure over a dozen, and most expressed, that there are several others that feel the same, but not sure if those numbers overlap with the actual members that did contact or were contacted by me.
None of the issues here are truly about disagreeing. People disagree all the time.
But the issues in the forum, from my honest view, and I have found that many others actually agree, is that there is a "Herd" mentality, to gang up on anyone that dares to disagree or is not part of the "Clique" or this "Family" a few keep mentioning.
To address WHY people have "Come to me" with these concerns:
I made it known, I did not like the Behavour openly in the forum, and then was ridiculed, called a troll, called former members names that had been banned, and told to leave, call a pot stirrer and several other childish terms.
I Pmed several members, asking if this behavour was normal at the forum.
I got several replies back and several unsolicited replies related to the bashing I took from a handful of long term forum members, "Apologizing" for the actions of certain members, trying to explain that "That is just how it is here, has been for years, but no one will actually DO anything about it"
None of this is actually all that incredible to believe as DSKIP has mentioned also.
I chose to protect the identities of the members relating their opinions as most mentioned they do not want to get "Involved" into non stop bickering and being called names and so on, for Daring to side with an "OUTSIDER" of the small Band of guys, that routinely do this stuff to newer people, or anyone they decide to "Gang up on"
I even had one long term member confide to me, that they were purposely making snide comments to certain new members, to create more animosity within their uh "Family" of veteran members, cause they know they can set them off easily and enjoy watching the "Drama" unfold.
A few told me, they "Pretend" to agree with some of the "Family" of veteran members, simply to "Get along", but in reality they have much different feelings or beliefs.
So out of courtesy to those that PMed me, I shall Not mention their names.
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My Gif's and meme's were to let the proverbial "dead horse" rest in peace2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC
erat interfectorem cesar et **** dictatorem dicere a -
Stop fully quoting long passages!DarqueKnight wrote: »I found some comments by @K_M and @DSkip intriguing. I hope they will provide further insight.The part you guys are not "digesting" is that Many older members are the actual ones that wanted the forum to change, and how the behavour was to change.
They would NOT post their true feelings openly in the forum as I do. You are making a huge assumption that everyone that has been here a while all agrees and is of the same mindset.
Your profile indicates that you have been a member of this forum since February 2016. I find it odd that "other long term members" were afraid to discuss their views in the forum, yet placed such confidence in a member who had only been around for a few months. Why were these "long term members" so trusting of a relative newcomer, yet "afraid" to express their views in open forum? I mean, what was there to be afraid of? This forum doesn't send "enforcers" to someone's home if they have a different, or even controversial, viewpoint.
Other questions:
1. How many "long term members" expressed to you that they were living in fear?
2. What changes did they want made and did they discuss them with Polk's management?And the other problem I see, many longer term members here repeat the same stuff over and over again, right or wrong, and other long term members not wanting to rock the boat or argue openly in the forum, simply say nothing or never disagree for fear of being bashed or made fun of.
If long term members are repeating wrong information, other members have the right to present a corrective rebuttal and to cite any and all substantiating documentation. That's what I do in my professional life, personal life, and on Internet forums. I really do not get this "living in fear" mentality on an AUDIO FORUM of all places. It's not as if anything said on this forum has any effect on anyone's real life.
When I became a member of this forum, in July 2001, there were some members who ridiculed me for my use of "old", "outdated" SDA loudspeakers. I responded, in technical detail, with the stereophonic performance benefits of SDA loudspeakers. Furthermore, I expounded on how the performance of SDA loudspeakers could be further enhanced by upgrades. Lastly, I really couldn't have cared less if someone laughs at my choice of audio equipment. I like what I like.
I recall from several of our discussions that, when you were asked to provide a technical justification for a position you held, you either rested to the "authority" of others who held your viewpoint or you simply refused to answer. Your concept of "debate" seems to be "accept my views because they are what has been accepted by many for a long time".I know some members who don't like how 'normal operations' happen around here. I know some who are members but never post because of it. K_M is not off base on that statement and I respect her enough for not 'outing' said members.
What are these "normal operations" you speak of and how many members never post because of them? I ask because I have never, in the 16+ years I have been here, been afraid to speak my mind...and I have expressed some extremely controversial opinions, positions, and points of view here.
I will address a few points you made.
"living in fear"....maybe not the best choice of words to describe the situation here.
"Fear of being ridiculed", may be a more accurate term.
"Fear of Bickering" or 5 pages of insults, and tedious GIF's and silly pictures being posted that have nothing to do with the actual topic, pro or con.
As to how many. I am not positive now as regards to an actual number, but for sure over a dozen, and most expressed, that there are several others that feel the same, but not sure if those numbers overlap with the actual members that did contact or were contacted by me.
None of the issues here are truly about disagreeing. People disagree all the time.
But the issues in the forum, from my honest view, and I have found that many others actually agree, is that there is a "Herd" mentality, to gang up on anyone that dares to disagree or is not part of the "Clique" or this "Family" a few keep mentioning.
To address WHY people have "Come to me" with these concerns:
I made it known, I did not like the Behavour openly in the forum, and then was ridiculed, called a troll, called former members names that had been banned, and told to leave, call a pot stirrer and several other childish terms.
I Pmed several members, asking if this behavour was normal at the forum.
I got several replies back and several unsolicited replies related to the bashing I took from a handful of long term forum members, "Apologizing" for the actions of certain members, trying to explain that "That is just how it is here, has been for years, but no one will actually DO anything about it"
None of this is actually all that incredible to believe as DSKIP has mentioned also.
I chose to protect the identities of the members relating their opinions as most mentioned they do not want to get "Involved" into non stop bickering and being called names and so on, for Daring to side with an "OUTSIDER" of the small Band of guys, that routinely do this stuff to newer people, or anyone they decide to "Gang up on"
I even had one long term member confide to me, that they were purposely making snide comments to certain new members, to create more animosity within their uh "Family" of veteran members, cause they know they can set them off easily and enjoy watching the "Drama" unfold.
A few told me, they "Pretend" to agree with some of the "Family" of veteran members, simply to "Get along", but in reality they have much different feelings or beliefs.
So out of courtesy to those that PMed me, I shall Not mention their names.
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DarqueKnight wrote: »I found some comments by @K_M and @DSkip intriguing. I hope they will provide further insight.The part you guys are not "digesting" is that Many older members are the actual ones that wanted the forum to change, and how the behavour was to change.
They would NOT post their true feelings openly in the forum as I do. You are making a huge assumption that everyone that has been here a while all agrees and is of the same mindset.
Your profile indicates that you have been a member of this forum since February 2016. I find it odd that "other long term members" were afraid to discuss their views in the forum, yet placed such confidence in a member who had only been around for a few months. Why were these "long term members" so trusting of a relative newcomer, yet "afraid" to express their views in open forum? I mean, what was there to be afraid of? This forum doesn't send "enforcers" to someone's home if they have a different, or even controversial, viewpoint.
Other questions:
1. How many "long term members" expressed to you that they were living in fear?
2. What changes did they want made and did they discuss them with Polk's management?And the other problem I see, many longer term members here repeat the same stuff over and over again, right or wrong, and other long term members not wanting to rock the boat or argue openly in the forum, simply say nothing or never disagree for fear of being bashed or made fun of.
If long term members are repeating wrong information, other members have the right to present a corrective rebuttal and to cite any and all substantiating documentation. That's what I do in my professional life, personal life, and on Internet forums. I really do not get this "living in fear" mentality on an AUDIO FORUM of all places. It's not as if anything said on this forum has any effect on anyone's real life.
When I became a member of this forum, in July 2001, there were some members who ridiculed me for my use of "old", "outdated" SDA loudspeakers. I responded, in technical detail, with the stereophonic performance benefits of SDA loudspeakers. Furthermore, I expounded on how the performance of SDA loudspeakers could be further enhanced by upgrades. Lastly, I really couldn't have cared less if someone laughs at my choice of audio equipment. I like what I like.
I recall from several of our discussions that, when you were asked to provide a technical justification for a position you held, you either rested to the "authority" of others who held your viewpoint or you simply refused to answer. Your concept of "debate" seems to be "accept my views because they are what has been accepted by many for a long time".I know some members who don't like how 'normal operations' happen around here. I know some who are members but never post because of it. K_M is not off base on that statement and I respect her enough for not 'outing' said members.
What are these "normal operations" you speak of and how many members never post because of them? I ask because I have never, in the 16+ years I have been here, been afraid to speak my mind...and I have expressed some extremely controversial opinions, positions, and points of view here.
I will address a few points you made.
"living in fear"....maybe not the best choice of words to describe the situation here.
"Fear of being ridiculed", may be a more accurate term.
"Fear of Bickering" or 5 pages of insults, and tedious GIF's and silly pictures being posted that have nothing to do with the actual topic, pro or con.
As to how many. I am not positive now as regards to an actual number, but for sure over a dozen, and most expressed, that there are several others that feel the same, but not sure if those numbers overlap with the actual members that did contact or were contacted by me.
None of the issues here are truly about disagreeing. People disagree all the time.
But the issues in the forum, from my honest view, and I have found that many others actually agree, is that there is a "Herd" mentality, to gang up on anyone that dares to disagree or is not part of the "Clique" or this "Family" a few keep mentioning.
To address WHY people have "Come to me" with these concerns:
I made it known, I did not like the Behavour openly in the forum, and then was ridiculed, called a troll, called former members names that had been banned, and told to leave, call a pot stirrer and several other childish terms.
I Pmed several members, asking if this behavour was normal at the forum.
I got several replies back and several unsolicited replies related to the bashing I took from a handful of long term forum members, "Apologizing" for the actions of certain members, trying to explain that "That is just how it is here, has been for years, but no one will actually DO anything about it"
None of this is actually all that incredible to believe as DSKIP has mentioned also.
I chose to protect the identities of the members relating their opinions as most mentioned they do not want to get "Involved" into non stop bickering and being called names and so on, for Daring to side with an "OUTSIDER" of the small Band of guys, that routinely do this stuff to newer people, or anyone they decide to "Gang up on"
I even had one long term member confide to me, that they were purposely making snide comments to certain new members, to create more animosity within their uh "Family" of veteran members, cause they know they can set them off easily and enjoy watching the "Drama" unfold.
A few told me, they "Pretend" to agree with some of the "Family" of veteran members, simply to "Get along", but in reality they have much different feelings or beliefs.
So out of courtesy to those that PMed me, I shall Not mention their names.
https://media.giphy.com/media/Fjr6v88OPk7U4/giphy.gif
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DarqueKnight wrote: »This place is dead
I told you this would happen, but you wouldn't listen.Moose68Bash wrote: »I'm just ruminating. I, too, have noticed that activity on the Forum has declined dramatically -- especially recently. But I'm not sure it is Vanilla.
It may just be the natural rhythm of life, so to speak.
I have noticed a dramatic decline in activity on this, and several other performance oriented audio forums I frequent:
1. Computer Audiophile.
2. Audio Circle.
3. The High End Audio sub-forums at AVS.
I attribute the decline in activity to several things, none of which have anything to do with Vanilla...
The phrase "performance oriented audio" in the above-quoted post caught my eye...
If some of youse guyses are interested in true "performance audio" -- do you know Dave Slagle and his blog?
If not -- you should!
http://hifiheroin.blogspot.com/
(I do hope Vanilla doesn't censor the URL name -- it contains the name of an unfortunately popular and very addictive opiate
Dave's business site is http://www.intactaudio.com/
I was also in Walter-land a coupla weeks ago with Dave and some other hifi luminaries -- this is serious business.
Tungar tubes, baby.
I can also, FWIW, vouch for Dave's skill with iron -- I use one of his early, entry-level TVCs (AVC, really, I think) on my hifi.
010 by Mark Hardy, on Flickr -
Thanks for getting back to audio.
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mhardy6647 wrote: »DarqueKnight wrote: »This place is dead
I told you this would happen, but you wouldn't listen.Moose68Bash wrote: »I'm just ruminating. I, too, have noticed that activity on the Forum has declined dramatically -- especially recently. But I'm not sure it is Vanilla.
It may just be the natural rhythm of life, so to speak.
I have noticed a dramatic decline in activity on this, and several other performance oriented audio forums I frequent:
1. Computer Audiophile.
2. Audio Circle.
3. The High End Audio sub-forums at AVS.
I attribute the decline in activity to several things, none of which have anything to do with Vanilla...
The phrase "performance oriented audio" in the above-quoted post caught my eye...
If some of youse guyses are interested in true "performance audio" -- do you know Dave Slagle and his blog?
If not -- you should!
http://hifiheroin.blogspot.com/
(I do hope Vanilla doesn't censor the URL name -- it contains the name of an unfortunately popular and very addictive opiate
Dave's business site is http://www.intactaudio.com/
I was also in Walter-land a coupla weeks ago with Dave and some other hifi luminaries -- this is serious business.
Tungar tubes, baby.
I can also, FWIW, vouch for Dave's skill with iron -- I use one of his early, entry-level TVCs (AVC, really, I think) on my hifi.010 by Mark Hardy, on Flickr
That looks like an awesome system and building that houses it, but can't help feeling it needs some carpet or something to absorb the sound a bit.. -
that is what a few hundred bodies are for
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So out of courtesy to those that PMed me, I shall Not mention their names.
That certainly is convenient. Make accusations, yet provide zero data to support it. Joe McCarthy ring a bell?
Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes
Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
Three 20 amp circuits. -
deleted...Post edited by nooshinjohn onThe Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
McCarthy was from Wisconsin. I talked to an older guy who saw him speak at a local high school gymnasium when he was first running for public office after WWII. He said McCarthy sent invitations for the events to farmer's wives on the theory that the wives would demand the husbands accompany them to the speech. Apparently that theory worked for him. I also recall reading the diary of FDR's Interior Secretary who said red bashing was not new with McCarthy. He apparently got the idea from somebody else who did it years before, (maybe after WWI or in the 30's about the time of the Spanish Civil War.)
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DonnerUndBlitzen wrote: »I will address a few points you made.
"living in fear"....maybe not the best choice of words to describe the situation here.
"Fear of being ridiculed", may be a more accurate term.
"Fear of Bickering" or 5 pages of insults, and tedious GIF's and silly pictures being posted that have nothing to do with the actual topic, pro or con.
As to how many. I am not positive now as regards to an actual number, but for sure over a dozen, and most expressed, that there are several others that feel the same, but not sure if those numbers overlap with the actual members that did contact or were contacted by me.
None of the issues here are truly about disagreeing. People disagree all the time.
But the issues in the forum, from my honest view, and I have found that many others actually agree, is that there is a "Herd" mentality, to gang up on anyone that dares to disagree or is not part of the "Clique" or this "Family" a few keep mentioning.
To address WHY people have "Come to me" with these concerns:
I made it known, I did not like the Behavour openly in the forum, and then was ridiculed, called a troll, called former members names that had been banned, and told to leave, call a pot stirrer and several other childish terms.
I Pmed several members, asking if this behavour was normal at the forum.
I got several replies back and several unsolicited replies related to the bashing I took from a handful of long term forum members, "Apologizing" for the actions of certain members, trying to explain that "That is just how it is here, has been for years, but no one will actually DO anything about it"
None of this is actually all that incredible to believe as DSKIP has mentioned also.
I chose to protect the identities of the members relating their opinions as most mentioned they do not want to get "Involved" into non stop bickering and being called names and so on, for Daring to side with an "OUTSIDER" of the small Band of guys, that routinely do this stuff to newer people, or anyone they decide to "Gang up on"
I even had one long term member confide to me, that they were purposely making snide comments to certain new members, to create more animosity within their uh "Family" of veteran members, cause they know they can set them off easily and enjoy watching the "Drama" unfold.
A few told me, they "Pretend" to agree with some of the "Family" of veteran members, simply to "Get along", but in reality they have much different feelings or beliefs.
So out of courtesy to those that PMed me, I shall Not mention their names.
K_M, Great post!
Anyone who dares to question or offer an opposing point of view to "the collective" gets trashed and bashed at this forum .
What a term THE COLLECTIVE! That term has been used by many here. Instead of individual Americans thinking for and speaking for themselves, it implies group think by people that either can't, or are afraid to think and speak for themselves. It also implies this: "I can be a part of this 'social club' and find acceptance so long as I keep my mouth shut, don't think and speak for myself, and most importantly, don't dare to go against THE COLLECTIVE."
"The Collective" is the main reason this place is dead. How can you have a forum with the exchange of ideas by independent, think for themselves people when there is a "collective" mentality? Answer is - you can't! The collective mentality is by nature anti-forum and it is what has killed this forum.
The Collective's Borg nightmare:
"Mommy, when I grow up I don't want to be a farmer, a fireman, nor even a frontiersman, I WANT TO BE A PART OF THE COLLECTIVE. Mommy, don't you know that 'Resistance is Futile! You shall be assimilated into THE COLLECTIVE - or else.'"
WOW!!! Someone is showing their true age, and not in a good way.. -
Funny how DonnerUndBlitzen, and K_M come into this thread, turn it to garbage, yet get to stick around... Better yet there are many threads that show the same behavior, and still crickets from the Mods!!!
Whats up Ken?? There's no better thread to judge by where it starts than right here..
Both are not who they say they are, and both are here just to stir the pot to get one of the members banned, I would bet Jesse is the one in their cross hairs for the most part..
Serious question: why are these two still here??
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As always has been...........don't like it here, feel free to be on your merry way to other pastures.
I find it ridiculous that certain newer members constantly complain about how bad it is here, yet they stick around and continue to wallow and contribute to the drama they so fervently say they abhor.
It's comically sad and completely ridiculous.....or rather it makes them look ridiculous and completely undermines the small amount of credibility they may have had.
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
I will address a few points you made.
"living in fear"....maybe not the best choice of words to describe the situation here.
"Fear of being ridiculed", may be a more accurate term.
"Fear of Bickering" or 5 pages of insults, and tedious GIF's and silly pictures being posted that have nothing to do with the actual topic, pro or con.
Ridicule is a natural consequence of having an opinion, especially if the opinion has no basis in fact. You have ridiculed me and others on this forum, and, when you were called on it, you said you often said you were "just kidding".
I started dealing with groups of people at age 5 in kindergarten. I can remember being ridiculed for one thing or another starting then and all the way up to now. As I mentioned earlier, I was ridiculed when I first joined this forum for my devotion to SDA loudspeakers. I am occasionally ridiculed on this and other forums for my views on stereophonic evaluation procedures.
If an adult is afraid of expressing their opinion on an Internet forum for fear of being ridiculed, I think that says more about their lack of confidence than it does about the forum. If someone properly justifies their opinion, any resulting ridicule only serves to make the ridiculing party look foolish. For example, I have had people come here from other forums to challenge/ridicule my views, but it always backfired on them when I asked them to scientifically justify their challenges.As to how many. I am not positive now as regards to an actual number, but for sure over a dozen, and most expressed, that there are several others that feel the same, but not sure if those numbers overlap with the actual members that did contact or were contacted by me.
This forum, and nothing else conceived by the mind of man is going to be perfect. Even if this was the perfect forum, some people would find a reason to complain.
Some people are just frustrated because things aren't the way they want them to be or they can't really act out they way they want to, or when they try to ridicule someone, they have the tables turned on them.None of the issues here are truly about disagreeing. People disagree all the time.
But the issues in the forum, from my honest view, and I have found that many others actually agree, is that there is a "Herd" mentality, to gang up on anyone that dares to disagree or is not part of the "Clique" or this "Family" a few keep mentioning.
The only instances that I recall someone being "ganged up on" fall into the following categories:
1. Someone comes here to "educate" the forum on some audio point, and, when they are asked to credibly justify their position, or state their experience on the matter, they refuse. For example, you have mentioned that didn't hear any differences in some equipment trials you performed, yet when asked to describe your test methodology, you refused. You just wanted people to take your word for it.
2. People resorting to name calling or becoming belligerent when they don't get the general agreement they were seeking.
3. People behaving in a passive-aggressive manner.
4. People asking for advice, then when they don't get validation for what they wanted to do in the first place, they start insulting and name calling...and things go downhill from there.
If you know of cases where people have been "ganged up on", yet they were behaving in a courteous and respectful manner, please point me to those. I can't recall any.To address WHY people have "Come to me" with these concerns:
I made it known, I did not like the Behavour openly in the forum, and then was ridiculed, called a troll, called former members names that had been banned, and told to leave, call a pot stirrer and several other childish terms.
I Pmed several members, asking if this behavour was normal at the forum.
I got several replies back and several unsolicited replies related to the bashing I took from a handful of long term forum members, "Apologizing" for the actions of certain members, trying to explain that "That is just how it is here, has been for years, but no one will actually DO anything about it"
I can recall quite a few people who have been permanently banned, and several of our "long term", "senior", "INSIDER", "veteran", and "esteemed" members have received warnings from moderators and have been placed on 30 day "time outs" (short term ban) for comments they made. The forum rules are clear, and people who consistently break the rules are dealt with in due time. As I mentioned earlier, this forum does not have an army of moderators that are standing watch ready to pounce on infractions as they occur. Our mods don't, and can't, catch everything. I will state for the record, that in every case where I have had an issue with a member's behavior, a moderator and/or Polk's management handled the situation appropriately. Sometimes the remedy was as simple as having an offensive or inappropriate post deleted. Other times more drastic action was taken.
Therefore, your, and others', assertion that the forum management does nothing about bad behavior is without merit. The forum rules of engagement encourage members to report bad behavior. It's as simple as clicking the "Report" button on an offensive post and writing a short note about the nature of the offense.I even had one long term member confide to me, that they were purposely making snide comments to certain new members, to create more animosity within their uh "Family" of veteran members, cause they know they can set them off easily and enjoy watching the "Drama" unfold.
Well, the fact that someone felt comfortable enough with you to share that they routinely break the forum rule against goading (trolling) members says a lot about their character and it speaks volumes about their perception of your character. Someone would only share something like that with you if they felt comfortable that you endorsed the behavior. In other words, they were a troll and they believed you to be a troll also. It's amazing that you didn't have an issue with that.
The forum rules of engagement are stated in the Clubhouse subforum. Specifically:
"2) Trolling - members who make a conscious effort to inflame or irritate others will be subject to warnings and/or bans."A few told me, they "Pretend" to agree with some of the "Family" of veteran members, simply to "Get along", but in reality they have much different feelings or beliefs.
So out of courtesy to those that PMed me, I shall Not mention their names.
I didn't ask you to name names.
As for pretending to "go along to get along", that is a character flaw that they need to address. This forum isn't some brutal dictatorship where expressing a different opinion can result in loss of life or freedom. As I said before, every time I have had issues with members, that could not be resolved person-to-person, I received an appropriate response and resolution from a moderator and/or Polk's management.
Now, I don't doubt for one picosecond that there are some nano-thin-skinned cry babies here who can't tolerate the most respectful of disagreement, or who can't stand to see an opinion expressed that they vehemently disagree with. Again, there are proper channels to address VALID concerns. If they choose to suffer in silence, that's on them. Our moderators don't see every off comment made just like the police don't see every crime committed.
Thank you for taking the time to address my inquiries.Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country! -
Funny how DonnerUndBlitzen, and K_M come into this thread, turn it to garbage, yet get to stick around... Better yet there are many threads that show the same behavior, and still crickets from the Mods!!!
Whats up Ken?? There's no better thread to judge by where it starts than right here..
Both are not who they say they are, and both are here just to stir the pot to get one of the members banned, I would bet Jesse is the one in their cross hairs for the most part..
Serious question: why are these two still here??
The part of K_M is that at one time I had a PM where I was told "her and her husband" use the same account. It's like a bipolar person you never seem to know who is who here. The wife went on to tell me they were friends with Xcapri. So do we have a tripolar personality here? Are they sharing their log in with others who have been banned ? You have to admit like I said earlier in the thread they always seem to show up in post to rehash other threads and sling the same old garbage. It's like tell the lie enough to enough people then it must be true. K_M has been asked questions numerous time about statement's they she/he made yet we are constantly tossed a curve ball or here watch the left hand do not watch the right hand. Why not just answer the question? I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT who was in contact with them about all the stuff they keep bringing up. I am talking about simple question on gear and thoughts about recaps,wires or other stuff.
Either way the borg mentality and beating up on people just is not as bad as they are trying to make it seem. Do we get testy sure, when someone comes here to ask question someone will spell out their experience to the thread starting question asking person and anyone who didn't agree with the already preconceived answer they had wanted to hear or had in their head to just start to poo poo everything. DK hit on the in his thread about the 7$ tax thing. Someone offered to pay the guy out of their own pocket and the guy was going to have none of it he was on a mission plain and simple. Not only that but it was brought up that he could get his money back by filling out some paperwork for a refund still he was having none of that. then it got testy. He came here to trash Polk for $7.00 and WE WERE going to have none of that.
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DarqueKnight wrote: »I will address a few points you made.
"living in fear"....maybe not the best choice of words to describe the situation here.
"Fear of being ridiculed", may be a more accurate term.
"Fear of Bickering" or 5 pages of insults, and tedious GIF's and silly pictures being posted that have nothing to do with the actual topic, pro or con.
Ridicule is a natural consequence of having an opinion, especially if the opinion has no basis in fact. You have ridiculed me and others on this forum, and, when you were called on it, you said you often said you were "just kidding".
I started dealing with groups of people at age 5 in kindergarten. I can remember being ridiculed for one thing or another starting then and all the way up to now. As I mentioned earlier, I was ridiculed when I first joined this forum for my devotion to SDA loudspeakers. I am occasionally ridiculed on this and other forums for my views on stereophonic evaluation procedures.
If an adult is afraid of expressing their opinion on an Internet forum for fear of being ridiculed, I think that says more about their lack of confidence than it does about the forum. If someone properly justifies their opinion, any resulting ridicule only serves to make the ridiculing party look foolish. For example, I have had people come here from other forums to challenge/ridicule my views, but it always backfired on them when I asked them to scientifically justify their challenges.As to how many. I am not positive now as regards to an actual number, but for sure over a dozen, and most expressed, that there are several others that feel the same, but not sure if those numbers overlap with the actual members that did contact or were contacted by me.
This forum, and nothing else conceived by the mind of man is going to be perfect. Even if this was the perfect forum, some people would find a reason to complain.
Some people are just frustrated because things aren't the way they want them to be or they can't really act out they way they want to, or when they try to ridicule someone, they have the tables turned on them.None of the issues here are truly about disagreeing. People disagree all the time.
But the issues in the forum, from my honest view, and I have found that many others actually agree, is that there is a "Herd" mentality, to gang up on anyone that dares to disagree or is not part of the "Clique" or this "Family" a few keep mentioning.
The only instances that I recall someone being "ganged up on" fall into the following categories:
1. Someone comes here to "educate" the forum on some audio point, and, when they are asked to credibly justify their position, or state their experience on the matter, they refuse. For example, you have mentioned that didn't hear any differences in some equipment trials you performed, yet when asked to describe your test methodology, you refused. You just wanted people to take your word for it.
2. People resorting to name calling or becoming belligerent when they don't get the general agreement they were seeking.
3. People behaving in a passive-aggressive manner.
4. People asking for advice, then when they don't get validation for what they wanted to do in the first place, they start insulting and name calling...and things go downhill from there.
If you know of cases where people have been "ganged up on", yet they were behaving in a courteous and respectful manner, please point me to those. I can't recall any.To address WHY people have "Come to me" with these concerns:
I made it known, I did not like the Behavour openly in the forum, and then was ridiculed, called a troll, called former members names that had been banned, and told to leave, call a pot stirrer and several other childish terms.
I Pmed several members, asking if this behavour was normal at the forum.
I got several replies back and several unsolicited replies related to the bashing I took from a handful of long term forum members, "Apologizing" for the actions of certain members, trying to explain that "That is just how it is here, has been for years, but no one will actually DO anything about it"
I can recall quite a few people who have been permanently banned, and several of our "long term", "senior", "INSIDER", "veteran", and "esteemed" members have received warnings from moderators and have been placed on 30 day "time outs" (short term ban) for comments they made. The forum rules are clear, and people who consistently break the rules are dealt with in due time. As I mentioned earlier, this forum does not have an army of moderators that are standing watch ready to pounce on infractions as they occur. Our mods don't, and can't, catch everything. I will state for the record, that in every case where I have had an issue with a member's behavior, a moderator and/or Polk's management handled the situation appropriately. Sometimes the remedy was as simple as having an offensive or inappropriate post deleted. Other times more drastic action was taken.
Therefore, your, and others', assertion that the forum management does nothing about bad behavior is without merit. The forum rules of engagement encourage members to report bad behavior. It's as simple as clicking the "Report" button on an offensive post and writing a short note about the nature of the offense.I even had one long term member confide to me, that they were purposely making snide comments to certain new members, to create more animosity within their uh "Family" of veteran members, cause they know they can set them off easily and enjoy watching the "Drama" unfold.
Well, the fact that someone felt comfortable enough with you to share that they routinely break the forum rule against goading (trolling) members says a lot about their character and it speaks volumes about their perception of your character. Someone would only share something like that with you if they felt comfortable that you endorsed the behavior. In other words, they were a troll and they believed you to be a troll also. It's amazing that you didn't have an issue with that.
The forum rules of engagement are stated in the Clubhouse subforum. Specifically:
"2) Trolling - members who make a conscious effort to inflame or irritate others will be subject to warnings and/or bans."A few told me, they "Pretend" to agree with some of the "Family" of veteran members, simply to "Get along", but in reality they have much different feelings or beliefs.
So out of courtesy to those that PMed me, I shall Not mention their names.
I didn't ask you to name names.
As for pretending to "go along to get along", that is a character flaw that they need to address. This forum isn't some brutal dictatorship where expressing a different opinion can result in loss of life or freedom. As I said before, every time I have had issues with members, that could not be resolved person-to-person, I received an appropriate response and resolution from a moderator and/or Polk's management.
Now, I don't doubt for one picosecond that there are some nano-thin-skinned cry babies here who can't tolerate the most respectful of disagreement, or who can't stand to see an opinion expressed that they vehemently disagree with. Again, there are proper channels to address VALID concerns. If they choose to suffer in silence, that's on them. Our moderators don't see every off comment made just like the police don't see every crime committed.
Thank you for taking the time to address my inquiries.
As always concise and to the point.. -
Funny how DonnerUndBlitzen, and K_M come into this thread, turn it to garbage, yet get to stick around... Better yet there are many threads that show the same behavior, and still crickets from the Mods!!!
Whats up Ken?? There's no better thread to judge by where it starts than right here..
Both are not who they say they are, and both are here just to stir the pot to get one of the members banned,
Serious question: why are these two still here??
This post is worth repeating because it is SPOT ON THE MONEY!!!
Note: I edited the part referring to me because their "mission" goes far beyond.
Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
As always has been...........don't like it here, feel free to be on your merry way to other pastures.
I find it ridiculous that certain newer members constantly complain about how bad it is here, yet they stick around and continue to wallow and contribute to the drama they so fervently say they abhor. ...
But the drama, basically, is part of what has made Club Polk entertaining, more often than not!
The threads that have been the most active (including this one) were frequently contentious, and when the "victim" finally gives up, there's nothing left to be entertained with.
For historic reference (and nostalgia for the good ol' days):
So if D&B, or K_M (Kylie Minogue?!) actually left, this thread would be extinct after all.
Alea jacta est! -
![[Deleted User]](https://w4.vanillicon.com/40bc09a87daec053937ab0249c85e591_100.png)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUYKSWQmkrg
This discussion has been closed.