"But don't say that the sound is better"

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  • JPete
    JPete Posts: 295
    What about AM vs. FM?
    Lexicon RT-10, Parasound P5, McCormack DNA 0.5, Polk SDA CRS+, SVS Sub
    Schiit Modi, Luminous Audio Axiom II, McCormack DNA-1, Digital Phase AP 2
    Marantz AV7701, Emotiva XPA-5, Paradigm 11se Mkii, DCM Time Windows, NHT 2C, SVS Sub

    Spares - Kenwood C1 Pre, NAD 2200PE, Polk Monitor 10B, Polk Model 11, other odds and ends
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,802
    AC vs. DC?
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  • Nightfall
    Nightfall Posts: 10,086
    Soft dome vs horn?
    afterburnt wrote: »
    They didn't speak a word of English, they were from South Carolina.

    Village Idiot of Club Polk
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  • BlueFox
    BlueFox Posts: 15,251
    F1nut wrote: »
    Not at all, why should I give up perfectly good CD's and SACD's for yet another format made for the absolute lazy!?!

    Because it sounds better. :)

    First, it isn't a new format, but simply a better way to play the existing files that are on CDs and SACDs. Plus play even higher resolution files that will never be on a disc. Second, having the ability to upgrade the DAC or file player as better gear becomes available is priceless. Nothing personal, but your SACD player, while nice, is obsolete. Third, having the ability to easily organize thousands of CDs and files into playlists is beyond priceless.

    Fourth, while I am lazy, I put a lot of effort into building an excellent stereo.
    Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.
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  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,416
    The only thing that does not sound better on vinyl and my table is Yoko Ono.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
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  • BlueFox
    BlueFox Posts: 15,251
    A broken stereo works wonders for Yoko.
    Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.
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  • gce
    gce Posts: 2,158
    nooshinjohn wrote: »
    The only thing that does not sound better on vinyl and my table is Yoko Ono.

    You just admitted you have a Yoko Ono album. :s
    Anaheim Hills CA,
    HT 5.1: Anthem MRX 720 / BDP-Denon DBT1713UD / Polkaudio LSiM703 / W4S mAmp's / Polkaudio LSiM706c / Polkaudio LSiM702F/X's / SVS PC12-NSD / Panasonic TC P55VT30

    2 Channel: Rogue RP-5 / WireWorld Electra power cord / Marantz TT-15S1/ Ortofon - Quintet Black MC / Marantz NA8005 DAC / W4S mAmp's / Synology DS 216+ll-4TB / Polkaudio LSiM703
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  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,416
    gce wrote: »
    nooshinjohn wrote: »
    The only thing that does not sound better on vinyl and my table is Yoko Ono.

    You just admitted you have a Yoko Ono album. :s

    A pristine copy of Double Fantasy... you sometimes gotta take the good with the bad and the ugly.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,552
    BlueFox wrote: »
    F1nut wrote: »
    Not at all, why should I give up perfectly good CD's and SACD's for yet another format made for the absolute lazy!?!

    Because it sounds better. :)

    First, it isn't a new format, but simply a better way to play the existing files that are on CDs and SACDs. Plus play even higher resolution files that will never be on a disc. Second, having the ability to upgrade the DAC or file player as better gear becomes available is priceless. Nothing personal, but your SACD player, while nice, is obsolete. Third, having the ability to easily organize thousands of CDs and files into playlists is beyond priceless.

    Fourth, while I am lazy, I put a lot of effort into building an excellent stereo.

    You're right I suppose that it isn't a new format, but it isn't a physical format and I like putting my hands on what I'm playing. Hardly obsolete, but you keep thinking that and I'll keep enjoying it. I seriously don't care about play lists or having thousands of songs at my finger tips. In fact, I see more and more folks these days saying they wish they never got rid of their CD collection.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • BlueFox
    BlueFox Posts: 15,251
    While I still have my CDs and SACDs, the higher res files will most likely will never be on disc. You are right in that obsolete wasn't the right word. I meant that better DACs are now available than what is in the player. The transport is fine.
    Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.
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  • Nightfall
    Nightfall Posts: 10,086
    edited April 2016
    F1nut wrote: »
    ...but it isn't a physical format and I like putting my hands on what I'm playing.

    Waiting for Ken Brydson to say he's offended.

    Completely agree with this. Another point is that I can sell my records for money, if I need to. I cannot, however, sell a hard drive or thumb stick with 1's and 0's of music. You legally can't even give or lend it away, because you do NOT own it. I do enjoy digital music, I have a bunch, but I can completely sympathize why somebody would not be willing to themselves.
    Someone better tell the folks who run the iTunes Store and its competitors. If you buy a digital music track or album from the iTunes store or one of its competitors, you don't own it. Instead, you're buying a license to play that track or album, and that license comes with an extremely limited set of rights.

    Why does it matter? If you buy a CD in the United States, Section 109 of the Copyright Act gives you very specific rights under the first-sale doctrine. Fred von Lohmann of the Electronic Frontier Foundation explains those rights:

    Once you've acquired a lawfully-made CD or book or DVD, you can lend, sell, or give it away without having to get permission from the copyright owner. In simpler terms, "you bought it, you own it" (and because first sale also applies to gifts, "they gave it to you, you own it" is also true).

    But the first-sale doctrine only applies to tangible goods, such as CDs. Digital music downloads (just like movies and TV shows and books) come with a completely different, much more limited set of rights. If you buy a digital album from an online service such as the iTunes store, Amazon MP3, or eMusic, you have no legal right to lend that album to a friend, as you could if you had purchased a CD. If you decide after a few listens that you hate the album, well, tough. You can't resell it. You can't even legally give it away.

    http://www.zdnet.com/article/who-owns-your-digital-downloads-hint-its-not-you/
    afterburnt wrote: »
    They didn't speak a word of English, they were from South Carolina.

    Village Idiot of Club Polk
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  • lightman1
    lightman1 Posts: 10,788
    Ken Brydson called me. He's offended.
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  • mikeyb128
    mikeyb128 Posts: 2,885
    edited April 2016
    From my point of view CDs do sound better, digital hi Rez tops CDs. But for me I love physical copies. I do own a lot of vinyl, I enjoy it occasionally. But vinyl is expensive, the cleaning, the care, the expense is ridiculous. For vinyl to sound good on a nice 2 channel system is over the top expensive, and just isn't worth it in my eyes. Invest in digital, a nice DAC, a tube CD player, maybe A tube pre, and get your anolog sound jollies off in spades.

    Although I love the sound of vinyl at my buddies. Hmm 6,000 dollar cart, 10,000 dollar table, and a tube pre amp with 22 tubes inside. Can't even recall what the h$ll he said all this stuff was. But yeah it sounded almost as good as a cd :wink:
    2 channel:
    Bryston 4B3, Bryston BDA3, Cary SLP05, Shanling CDT1000SE with parts conneXion level 2 mods, Nottingham analogue ace space 294, soundsmith Carmen MKii, Zu DL103 MKii, Ortofon MC 20 MKii, Dynavector XX2 MKii, Rogue Audio Ares, Core power technologies balanced power conditioner, Akiko Corelli power conditioner with Akiko Audio HQ power cable, Nordost heimdall 2, Frey 2, interconnects, speaker and power cables, Focal Electra 1028 BE 2, Auralic Aries Femto, Black diamond racing cones, ingress audio level 1 roller blocks, JL Audio E110 with Auralic subdude, Primacoustics room treatments.
    Theater:
    Focal Aria 926,905,CC900, SVS PB ultra x2. Pioneer Elite SC85, Oppo BDP93, Panamax M5400PM, Minix neox6, Nordost Blue heaven LS power cables.

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  • JPete
    JPete Posts: 295
    edited April 2016
    Anybody have one of these? You're not a real "vinyl" guy unless you do in my opinion.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0hRzEihsR4

    Lexicon RT-10, Parasound P5, McCormack DNA 0.5, Polk SDA CRS+, SVS Sub
    Schiit Modi, Luminous Audio Axiom II, McCormack DNA-1, Digital Phase AP 2
    Marantz AV7701, Emotiva XPA-5, Paradigm 11se Mkii, DCM Time Windows, NHT 2C, SVS Sub

    Spares - Kenwood C1 Pre, NAD 2200PE, Polk Monitor 10B, Polk Model 11, other odds and ends
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  • JPete
    JPete Posts: 295
    edited April 2016
    Here is the best way to listen to a Yoko album. The ending is the best part...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNGxDAiTxaQ
    Lexicon RT-10, Parasound P5, McCormack DNA 0.5, Polk SDA CRS+, SVS Sub
    Schiit Modi, Luminous Audio Axiom II, McCormack DNA-1, Digital Phase AP 2
    Marantz AV7701, Emotiva XPA-5, Paradigm 11se Mkii, DCM Time Windows, NHT 2C, SVS Sub

    Spares - Kenwood C1 Pre, NAD 2200PE, Polk Monitor 10B, Polk Model 11, other odds and ends
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  • gce
    gce Posts: 2,158
    nooshinjohn wrote: »
    gce wrote: »
    nooshinjohn wrote: »
    The only thing that does not sound better on vinyl and my table is Yoko Ono.

    You just admitted you have a Yoko Ono album. :s

    A pristine copy of Double Fantasy... you sometimes gotta take the good with the bad and the ugly.

    So there's the one good thing CD's have that Vinyl doesn't. The ability to skip the tracks you don't want to hear. :p

    Anaheim Hills CA,
    HT 5.1: Anthem MRX 720 / BDP-Denon DBT1713UD / Polkaudio LSiM703 / W4S mAmp's / Polkaudio LSiM706c / Polkaudio LSiM702F/X's / SVS PC12-NSD / Panasonic TC P55VT30

    2 Channel: Rogue RP-5 / WireWorld Electra power cord / Marantz TT-15S1/ Ortofon - Quintet Black MC / Marantz NA8005 DAC / W4S mAmp's / Synology DS 216+ll-4TB / Polkaudio LSiM703
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  • bikezappa
    bikezappa Posts: 2,463
    A negative aspect of LPs that has always bothered me is the feedback loop. The speaker vibrates the air in the room. This vibrating air will vibrate the surface of the LP and be transmitted to the cartridge. A simple test to hear this effect is to put the cartridge on a non rotating LP and slowly turn up the volume. It can get really ugly, so turn up the volume slowly.
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  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 10,716
    "Digital is finally able to compete with the cdp and SACD, it's easy and convenient too for our lazy society. " - downloads are soulless.
    You share downloads. You own LP and CDs.

    I've read that article some time ago and can't disagree.
    There is no perfect LP. Too many things to go wrong.
    Dynamic range is higher on Digital formats ect. There is
    no clear cut winner on my system between LP and CD.

    I have exactly two "LPs" downloaded from HDTracks.
    Led Zep II and Supertramp Crime of the Century.
    The Led Zep II is the best sounding I've ever heard.
    I believe it was remastered with hiRez in mind. (guessing)
    The Supertramp is really good but I couldn't recommend
    buying it if you already have it in some other format.
    (unless money is not the issue)

    I love my blu-ray pure audio but it looks like it is going the
    way of Beta.
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  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 342
    edited April 2016
    heiney9 wrote: »
    Tubes Rule w/ analog or digital.............. :p

    Ain't got tubes................ain't got soul!

    H9
    Are you saying Vitus Signature series gear doesn't have soul? Or that I should swap my Vitus SIA-025 for your Pass & Avanti amps?

    Post edited by [Deleted User] on
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  • gudnoyez
    gudnoyez Posts: 8,124
    17n8cbc82033.jpg

    Okay here is a good example here are 5 different recordings would of pictured 6 but my mastered in Germany CD is currently in the wife's truck a d she's not home. I don't want to raise any feathers but displayed here is my cherished LP Japanese import copy, the 5.1 SACD mix to include a Redbook layer some remastered CD I bought just cause the wife always has my other CD copy in her truck, also a recording of the MSFL half speed master LP on a TDK MA 90 cassette.

    Here is the order of the sound quality to my ears other ears may vary.

    1. The Japanese Import LP is the best sounding recording I have ever heard of DSOTM nothing comes close in my opinion.

    2. The TDK MA 90 copy of my buddies Half speed mastered LP comes a close second just as warm as my import Vinyl yes a cassette for Christ's sake recorded this in 1984 and this still sounds good.

    3. Would be the CD that my wife has in her truck it is a original CD I bought at musik Kuss my favorite record store over in Germany the year it first came out on CD yeah this is an oldie.

    4-5. The 5.1 mix on my SACD sounds great but honestly the 5.1 mix is ok for a listen or two on the Oppo , on my SACD player on the 2 channel rig the Redbook layer sounds fantastic.

    6. This remastered DSOTM remaster not from the recent bunch but the remasters a couple of years prior, ranks last sounds ok but a little muddy sounding this one's going to my Grandsons collection, won't miss this one a bit.

    OK my Jeff Beck Orange on SACD kicks major azz on both my original Vinyl and CD that they will never be played again. I guess it's my opinion but all physical formats can sound better than the others and are mastering dependant. I Guess I'm happy with all. I recently started collecting digital downloads to play through the Dac on my Oppo and Marantz SACD player and like what I hear, perhaps I should check out the DSOTM off HD tracks to see where it ranks :#
    Home Theater
    Parasound Halo A 31 OnkyoTX-NR838 Sony XBR55X850B 55" 4K RtiA9 Fronts CsiA6 Center RtiA3 Rears FxiA6 Side Surrounds Dual Psw 111's Oppo 105D Signal Ultra Speaker Cables & IC's Signal Magic Power Cable Technics SL Q300 Panamax MR4300 Audioquest Chocolate HDMI Cables Audioquest Forest USB Cable

    2 Channel
    Adcom 555II Vincent SA-T1 Marantz SA 15S2 Denon DR-M11 Clearaudio Bluemotion SDA 2.3tl's (Z) edition MIT Terminator II Speaker Cables & IC's Adcom 545II Adcom Gtp-450 Marantz CD5004 Technics M245X SDA 2B's, SDA CRS+

    Stuff for the Head
    JD LABS C5 Headphone Amplifier, Sennheiser HD 598, Polk Audio Buckle, Polk Audio Hinge, Velodyne vPulse, Bose IE2, Sennheiser CX 200 Street II, Sennheiser MX 365

    Shower & Off the beaten path Rigs
    Polk Audio Boom Swimmer, Polk Audio Urchin B)
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  • zappafan2
    zappafan2 Posts: 37
    I enjoy music , to me its what puts a smile on my face and is just plain relaxing. Its not about someone telling me what sounds better and what I should be listening to and in what format. I enjoy all my cds and they do sound good , for me though a nice clean pressing of some of my favorite records on lp are my favorite way to enjoy my collection and that is my favorite way to listen. I personally feel that vinyl does sound good, I dont need a bunch of facts and data to support which is better its a personal choice like so many audio things. Everyone is different but I think we all agree its a choice so do what you like and enjoy ,for me the whole vinyl experience is my favorite way to enjoy music even with its limits.
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  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 10,716
    LPs are a pain the azz. I should know, I have 3000
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  • ken brydson
    ken brydson Posts: 8,759
    lightman1 wrote: »
    Ken Brydson called me. He's offended.

    n26jq2q2ue1d.jpg
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  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 342
    edited April 2016
    DarqueKnight wrote: »
    Nothing (yet) beats the sound quality of well-recorded single-sided 45 rpm vinyl.
    How about a well mastered DXD, XRCD24 or Platinum SHM cd played on a Vitus SCD-025 Mk2 placed on Stillpoints Ultra 6's with Ultra bases? ;)

    b7zep7pa1ckq.jpg

    aryx4ed65ufo.jpg
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  • gudnoyez
    gudnoyez Posts: 8,124
    Been hearing stuff about DXD what's it all about?
    Home Theater
    Parasound Halo A 31 OnkyoTX-NR838 Sony XBR55X850B 55" 4K RtiA9 Fronts CsiA6 Center RtiA3 Rears FxiA6 Side Surrounds Dual Psw 111's Oppo 105D Signal Ultra Speaker Cables & IC's Signal Magic Power Cable Technics SL Q300 Panamax MR4300 Audioquest Chocolate HDMI Cables Audioquest Forest USB Cable

    2 Channel
    Adcom 555II Vincent SA-T1 Marantz SA 15S2 Denon DR-M11 Clearaudio Bluemotion SDA 2.3tl's (Z) edition MIT Terminator II Speaker Cables & IC's Adcom 545II Adcom Gtp-450 Marantz CD5004 Technics M245X SDA 2B's, SDA CRS+

    Stuff for the Head
    JD LABS C5 Headphone Amplifier, Sennheiser HD 598, Polk Audio Buckle, Polk Audio Hinge, Velodyne vPulse, Bose IE2, Sennheiser CX 200 Street II, Sennheiser MX 365

    Shower & Off the beaten path Rigs
    Polk Audio Boom Swimmer, Polk Audio Urchin B)
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  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 342
    edited April 2016
    gudnoyez wrote: »
    Been hearing stuff about DXD what's it all about?
    Digital eXtreme Definition (DXD) is an audio encoding scheme that was developed for editing high-resolution recordings because DSD, the audio standard used on Super Audio CD is not ideally suited for editing. DXD is a PCM-like signal with 24-bit resolution sampled at 352.8 kHz - eight times 44.1 kHz, the sampling frequency of Red Book CD. The data rate is 11.2896 Mbit/s - four times that of DSD!
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  • gudnoyez
    gudnoyez Posts: 8,124
    http://www.stereophile.com/content/promates-worlds-first-dxd-download-store#2jpdlzGqOuIoU2Gh.97

    So the files are to big to fit on a disc and DXD recordings are only available by downloading, plus you need a converter what type of converter?
    Home Theater
    Parasound Halo A 31 OnkyoTX-NR838 Sony XBR55X850B 55" 4K RtiA9 Fronts CsiA6 Center RtiA3 Rears FxiA6 Side Surrounds Dual Psw 111's Oppo 105D Signal Ultra Speaker Cables & IC's Signal Magic Power Cable Technics SL Q300 Panamax MR4300 Audioquest Chocolate HDMI Cables Audioquest Forest USB Cable

    2 Channel
    Adcom 555II Vincent SA-T1 Marantz SA 15S2 Denon DR-M11 Clearaudio Bluemotion SDA 2.3tl's (Z) edition MIT Terminator II Speaker Cables & IC's Adcom 545II Adcom Gtp-450 Marantz CD5004 Technics M245X SDA 2B's, SDA CRS+

    Stuff for the Head
    JD LABS C5 Headphone Amplifier, Sennheiser HD 598, Polk Audio Buckle, Polk Audio Hinge, Velodyne vPulse, Bose IE2, Sennheiser CX 200 Street II, Sennheiser MX 365

    Shower & Off the beaten path Rigs
    Polk Audio Boom Swimmer, Polk Audio Urchin B)
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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,962
    Audio has more niche markets than you can shake a stick at.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
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  • Dawgfish
    Dawgfish Posts: 2,554
    I have no doubts about the validity of the article. It still doesn't change the fact that I prefer listening to vinyl in my setup by a large margin. Bottom line, I don't need an article to tell me which format I like better! I'm always open to listening however......
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  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 342
    edited April 2016
    gudnoyez wrote: »
    http://www.stereophile.com/content/promates-worlds-first-dxd-download-store#2jpdlzGqOuIoU2Gh.97

    So the files are to big to fit on a disc and DXD recordings are only available by downloading, plus you need a converter what type of converter?
    Well I don't know about that Stereophile download, but DXD cd's are playable on RBCD players. Here is a bit more info - http://www.elusivedisc.com/TOP-12-IN-GOLD-DXD-GOLD-CD/productinfo/GSDX001/

    I was just making a facetious point that cd's can compete with vinyl given good enough equipment & recorded media.
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