Parasound vs Emotiva
Comments
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Wow, just WOW!
Flew right over your head I see. All I see are "buzz" words. Doesn't impress me one bit.
Anyway, I stated my POV, nothing more to say other than "Those that don't know, don't know that they don't know"
Continue on your very narrow, closed minded path with absolute statements and a spec sheet. If that's what floats your boat, then enjoy, because in the end that's all that matters.
Cheers
H9
"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
Wow, just WOW!
Anyway, I stated my POV, nothing more to say other than "Those that don't know, don't know that they don't know"
This goes both ways now doesn't it?Oh, Listen here mister. We got no way of understandin' this world. But we got as much sense of this bird flyin in the sky. Now there is a lot that bird don't know, but it don't change the fact that the world is happening to him all the same. What I am tryin to say is, is that the course of your life, well its changing, and you don't even see it- Forest Bondurant -
I have owned a pair of XPA-1's, and it is one of the few times I have had buyers remorse. Didn't sound any different than the XPA-2 I had previously but cost three times more. I replaced them with a Simaudio integrated at 100WPC and it did just about everything better than the XPA's. I have since moved on from the Sim, but that brings up another point. As you gain experience in the hobby, your tastes and understanding may evolve. If you are happy with your amps, that is great. Just don't expect everyone to feel the same.
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jeremymarcinko wrote: »jeremymarcinko wrote: »How many of you have heard the XPA1 GEN 2's ?
I can say anything, about my experience, however I want. We all use blanket statements. It's my right
Have you heard every single amp for $2K or less to make your statement of fact about how the XPA 1 Gen's 2's are the best, period?
See we all have different likes, dislikes, preferences, experiences, perceptions, opinions, levels of experience, expectations, etc. So what works for one person at $2K, may not work for another person at $2K. So it;s beyond me how you can state in absolute terms it's the best or most capable amp for under $2K, period!
H9
I don't have too. There isn't another set of monoblocs out there under $2k that are fully balanced, fully discrete, quad differential, ultra-high current, with selectable Class A that gets as much praise as the XPA1 GEN 2, for being as good as $8000- $16000 mono's that they have been compared to directly.
Look out. Here we go again.
Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes
Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
Three 20 amp circuits. -
$879.00 today.
600 watts RMS @ 8 ohms - I don't need this for my bookies.
Power output (0.1% THD) - ouch!
Full power: > 117 dB - this is not bad.
Found an interesting page on DIY ing an EMO XPA-1
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/171491-emotiva-xpa-1-vs-jungson-99d-16.html
so there is always that 5 years down the line ... -
rednedtugent wrote: »Power output (0.1% THD) - ouch!
so there is always that 5 years down the line ...
Yes at 600w it has one tenth of a percent of THD, just as my head would explode from the pressure at that volume.Oh, Listen here mister. We got no way of understandin' this world. But we got as much sense of this bird flyin in the sky. Now there is a lot that bird don't know, but it don't change the fact that the world is happening to him all the same. What I am tryin to say is, is that the course of your life, well its changing, and you don't even see it- Forest Bondurant -
Wattage ratings don't mean a whole lot unless you are trying to pressurize an extremely large room (more than a typical large living room or rec room) Then they can be a loose guide. THD is a worthless spec unless it's way out of whack, like over 10%, but then that figure would never be printed on a spec sheet.
I'll never understand why novices in this hobby hang their hats on manufacturer specs. They are pretty much useless in determining how a piece of gear sounds and performs.
That's like choosing a car because the speedometer goes up to 200 mph vs. a car where the speedometer only goes to 120 mph. Let that analogy sink in.
Again, those that don't know, don't know that they don't know. If you understood anything about amplifier design you'd know these kind of specs don't mean a whole lot.
Just to throw out a general statement: You can achieve extremely low THD measurements by cranking up negative feedback and/or adding gain stages, but in most instances (if not almost all) it has a direct affect on the final sound quality and it's not a positive affect. But damn skippy it shows well on a printed manufacturers spec sheet!
Cheers
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
I am going to be stubborn and childish, and say. My point stands until I am convinced otherwise. The XPA1- Gen2 is the most capable amp available new with warranty under $2k.
I absolutely believe these amps are legitimate, sound as good as amps costing much much more and shouldn't be dismissed as entry level equipment, that only has its use in HT.
The weak link in my system now is the RTi'12's, but they will be upgraded in time.Oh, Listen here mister. We got no way of understandin' this world. But we got as much sense of this bird flyin in the sky. Now there is a lot that bird don't know, but it don't change the fact that the world is happening to him all the same. What I am tryin to say is, is that the course of your life, well its changing, and you don't even see it- Forest Bondurant -
Right, YOU believe. But just because YOU believe doesn't mean you're not going to get some push back when you state in absolute terms it's the best, period, with your arbitrary set of objectives.
You see you finally put some qualifiers in your statement and back tracked on your original statement.jeremymarcinko wrote: »I absolutely believe these amps are legitimate, sound as good as amps costing much much more and shouldn't be dismissed as entry level equipment, that only has its use in HT.
3 pages of dialog would have been avoided if you just said this opinion to begin with instead of proclaiming they are the best period.
Cheers
H9
"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
o.k. then. If power is your only criteria have at it. I can't prove a negative for you.
I can't tell you what is not there with the Emo.
BTW, the EMO .vs. Parasound question was answered FOR ME
and my modest system as neither:
jeremymarcinko wrote: »I am going to be stubborn and childish, and say. My point stands until I am convinced otherwise. The XPA1- Gen2 is the most capable amp available new with warranty under $2k.
I absolutely believe these amps are legitimate, sound as good as amps costing much much more and shouldn't be dismissed as entry level equipment, that only has its use in HT.
The weak link in my system now is the RTi'12's, but they will be upgraded in time.
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Oh did I say believe, dang it, that was an accident.
Oh, Listen here mister. We got no way of understandin' this world. But we got as much sense of this bird flyin in the sky. Now there is a lot that bird don't know, but it don't change the fact that the world is happening to him all the same. What I am tryin to say is, is that the course of your life, well its changing, and you don't even see it- Forest Bondurant -
It's not personal, it's audio.
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I had xpa 1s for awhile. Every amp I had after them sounded better to my ears. Bought Wyred monos that sounded better than these and are around your price point.
Also capable amp? What is that even supposed to mean? What context? It might be good to you but you are selling yourself short in this hobby if you just think nothing else can be better. -
Nah, all I am saying is that at that price point, the Emotiva mono's destroys the competition. I am sure I will move on from them at some point, but I am going to continue to defend them based on my experience, and the experiences of many others. If it's application sounds bad, I promise you the amp is not to blame.Oh, Listen here mister. We got no way of understandin' this world. But we got as much sense of this bird flyin in the sky. Now there is a lot that bird don't know, but it don't change the fact that the world is happening to him all the same. What I am tryin to say is, is that the course of your life, well its changing, and you don't even see it- Forest Bondurant
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jeremymarcinko wrote: »Nah, all I am saying is that at that price point, the Emotiva mono's destroys the competition. I am sure I will move on from them at some point, but I am going to continue to defend them based on my experience, and the experiences of many others. If it's application sounds bad, I promise you the amp is not to blame.
So let me get this straight. You have haven't tried all amps at that price point but somehow "know" the emo will beat them all? That is the worst thing to do in this hobby because you blindly won't even give anything else a chance. Don't tell others then that based on your experience as you have none. You haven't compared even to know it is better or more "capable".
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We all,start somewhere,,my journey started with Adcoms,, first a 535, then moved on to 555's,,then Belles(still,have it), thanks Jesse,,, then Vtl 100 watt monos( keepers),, along the way Odyssey,Quicksilver monos and a GLA ( still have the GLA),, it is all about synergy folks,,oh,, still have the Carverfest tubers that I built,,Some years ago,, I went over to a friends house and we did a comparasion with the Belles and his Emo's,,,that is when he started on his amp journey. Nuff saidJC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)
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OTOH,
harsh highs, sterile lows and loss of detail is somewhat correctable. -
jeremymarcinko wrote: »Nah, all I am saying is that at that price point, the Emotiva mono's destroys the competition. I am sure I will move on from them at some point, but I am going to continue to defend them based on my experience, and the experiences of many others. If it's application sounds bad, I promise you the amp is not to blame.
So let me get this straight. You have haven't tried all amps at that price point but somehow "know" the emo will beat them all? That is the worst thing to do in this hobby because you blindly won't even give anything else a chance. Don't tell others then that based on your experience as you have none. You haven't compared even to know it is better or more "capable".
You are making a few assumptions, aren't you?
I can tell others whatever I like. You don't get to decide that, and there isn't anything you can do about it.Post edited by jeremymarcinko onOh, Listen here mister. We got no way of understandin' this world. But we got as much sense of this bird flyin in the sky. Now there is a lot that bird don't know, but it don't change the fact that the world is happening to him all the same. What I am tryin to say is, is that the course of your life, well its changing, and you don't even see it- Forest Bondurant -
Man...this has been a heated discussion! I like it.... all the more reason to love this hobby is the passion folks have for their equipment. Now whether that passion is driven by quality audio or their wallet is another discussion all togetherPolk SDA 1C Upgraded, Eastern Electric Minimax Supreme DAC, Parasound HCA 1200ii, Belles 21a Preamp, Rotel RSX-1056, Matricom G Box Q, Blue Jean & Signal Cable interconnects, Sonographe SG-3 TT, Panamax M4300-PM
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To be clear I am not upset at all. I don't take any of this that personally.Oh, Listen here mister. We got no way of understandin' this world. But we got as much sense of this bird flyin in the sky. Now there is a lot that bird don't know, but it don't change the fact that the world is happening to him all the same. What I am tryin to say is, is that the course of your life, well its changing, and you don't even see it- Forest Bondurant
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"Unlike many other preamps these days, the XSP-1 includes a truly stunning and extremely quiet phono preamplifier with inputs for both moving magnet and moving coil cartridges (with user-selectable loading)"
I really like this phono pre. I'm still evaluating but it's a winner. -
rednedtugent wrote: »"Unlike many other preamps these days, the XSP-1 includes a truly stunning and extremely quiet phono preamplifier with inputs for both moving magnet and moving coil cartridges (with user-selectable loading)"
I really like this phono pre. I'm still evaluating but it's a winner.
Good to know. I have been checking those out due to the ht bypass.
Go BUCKS!!Oh, Listen here mister. We got no way of understandin' this world. But we got as much sense of this bird flyin in the sky. Now there is a lot that bird don't know, but it don't change the fact that the world is happening to him all the same. What I am tryin to say is, is that the course of your life, well its changing, and you don't even see it- Forest Bondurant -
The EMO debate again...really? Come on dudes....One of you has a couple of XPA's with Blue Jeans Ten wire and the other has Pass Aleph 3 and MIT Showgun S3 wire. One side is never going to convince the other side so there is nothing really to debate about. The rest of us all know that the EMO can be a great value for some and the Pass is legendary in the audio world....and some will NEVER put an EMO anything in the same category let alone the same breath! Its water under the bridge at this point.
Interesting one man's comparison: http://emotivalounge.proboards.com/thread/11669/xpa-2-pass-labs-aleph
"For though they may be parted
There is still a chance that they will see
There will be an answer, let it be"2.2 Office Setup | LG 29UB55 21:9 UltraWide | HP Probook 630 G8 | Dell Latitude | Cabasse Stream Amp 100 | Boston Acoustics VS 240 | AUDIORAX Desk Stands | Mirage Omni S8 sub1 | Mirage Omni S8 Sub2 -
The EMO debate again...really? Come on dudes....One of you has a couple of XPA's with Blue Jeans Ten wire and the other has Pass Aleph 3 and MIT Showgun S3 wire. One side is never going to convince the other side so there is nothing really to debate about. The rest of us all know that the EMO can be a great value for some and the Pass is legendary in the audio world....and some will NEVER put an EMO anything in the same category let alone the same breath! Its water under the bridge at this point.
Interesting one man's comparison: http://emotivalounge.proboards.com/thread/11669/xpa-2-pass-labs-aleph
"For though they may be parted
There is still a chance that they will see
There will be an answer, let it be"
Any time somebody says "There is no debate. My (brand name) amp is THE best in THIS price point", there will be debate.Polk Lsi9
N.E.W. A-20 class A 20W
NAD 1020 completely refurbished
Keces DA-131 mk.II
Analysis Plus Copper Oval, Douglass, Morrow SUB3, Huffman Digital
Paradigm DSP-3100 v.2 -
Emo debate on a thread titled PArasound .vs Emo AGAIN?
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There's is nothing wrong with a good debate. It helps to remind ourselves, what we stand for.
Thanks fellas.Oh, Listen here mister. We got no way of understandin' this world. But we got as much sense of this bird flyin in the sky. Now there is a lot that bird don't know, but it don't change the fact that the world is happening to him all the same. What I am tryin to say is, is that the course of your life, well its changing, and you don't even see it- Forest Bondurant -
I tell you what, I'd rather someone buy an Emo, than blow a receiver and/or speakers2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC
erat interfectorem cesar et **** dictatorem dicere a -
I have Parasound and Emotiva amps and the science is settled, they are just swell!
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I'll cheers to that!Polk SDA 1C Upgraded, Eastern Electric Minimax Supreme DAC, Parasound HCA 1200ii, Belles 21a Preamp, Rotel RSX-1056, Matricom G Box Q, Blue Jean & Signal Cable interconnects, Sonographe SG-3 TT, Panamax M4300-PM
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jeremymarcinko wrote: »Warranty is a big deal. I have seen numerous b&k, and parasound amps, purchased used by forum members, having trouble with a bad channel or a hum etc.
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The vast majority of those amps here with any issues are nearly 20 years old, possibly more, and any electronic device getting long in the tooth can be subject to these problems.
What is Emotiva's warranty, 5 years? So is Parasound's on new products, and 3 to 5 years will be typical. Bryston has a more realistic, in terms of a quality product experiencing failure, electronics warranty with 20 years.
I have no dog in the "Emo sounds (opinion) way" as I have not heard one, and likely never will. But it just seems focusing on "new" and "warranty" can be shortsighted in ruling out better and more cost effective used gear.
I've mentioned this many times about how many power amps that are 15 to 30 someodd years old are still working and in members racks. Will be interesting to see how these Emotiva amps are doing after 15 to 30 years.
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