The Year Of DACs

DarqueKnight

Finding a DAC to replace my Cary Audio CD 306 Professional Version SACD player has proven to be challenging. The process began in December of 2014. Along the way I have learned a lot about computer audio and my listening experience has been enhanced considerably. In addition to enhanced sound quality, music servers now put my entire CD and SACD collection at my fingertips, and are controlled by wireless devices interfaced with my home's local area network. My first digital music server was a Brystion BDP-1. It was interfaced with the DAC section of the CD 306. After a few months, the BDP-1 was replaced with a BDP-2. The BDP-1 was moved to my home theater system and interfaced with the DAC section of my ancient Sony TA-E9000ES home theater processor.

The first challenger was the highly regarded PS Audio DirectStream DAC ($5995). I fully expected the DS DAC to outperform the CD 306 PV ($7,995), but, no such luck. If the DAC section of an $8,000 SACD player sounds excellent, a standalone DAC costing $6,000 should sound better, right? Wrong, in this case. It would be a gross understatement to say there was a night and day difference between the CD 306 and the DS because they were two classes of DAC. A more apt comparison would have been "week (CD 306) and day (DS DAC) difference".

The next challenger was Cary's current top-of-the-line digital source, the DMC-600SE ($7,995). It sounds a little better than the CD 306 PV. But it's not enough of a difference to me to warrant the investment.

I recently acquired a demo unit Cary Audio DAC-100 ($2,495) and a demo unit BDP-2. Both of which will be used in my audio system at work. I currently have a Yamaha CDX-1110U CD player in the office system and 20 of my favorite CDs. The BDP-2's internal 500GB solid state hard drive has been loaded with 552 ripped CDs. Therefore, I will have a bit more flexibility in my office time listening pleasure.

Having Cary's entry level DAC (DAC-100) and their top of the line DAC (DMC-600SE) allowed me to hear what an additional $5500 brings in terms of performance, with this particular manufacturer.


Figure 1. DAC-100 at top on left. DMC-600SE on right.

In figure 1, the stack on the left, from bottom to top consists of a PS Audio PowerBase isolation platform, dCS Puccini U-Clock master clock, Bryston BDP-2, Cary Audio DAC-100. The stack on the right, from bottom to top consists of a PS Audio PowerBase isolation platform, Black Diamond Racing isolation cones and pucks, Cary Audio DMC-600SE.


Figure 2. The DAC-100 is going to be sent back to the factory to have the piercingly bright LEDs turned down...a lot. What were they thinking?

Viewed from the side, the DAC-100's LEDs are not obnoxiously bright. But from the listening seat with the LEDs just above eye level, they stabbed my eyes.

There is a "week and day" difference in sound quality between the DAC-100 and the DMC-600SE, but the DAC-100 is a keeper (after it comes back from having LED surgery). It is a perfect match of my vintage audio system at work consisting of a:

Nakamichi CA 5A II preamp,
Adcom GFA-555 power amp,
Monster Cable Z2 Reference speaker cables,
Signal Cable MagicPower power cords,
Signal Cable Analog 2 Version 2 RCA interconnects,
Polk Audio SDA CRS+ (1989 model - highly modified) loudspeakers,
Dreadnought AI-1 Non-Common Ground Speaker Interface (1000VA transformer),
PS Audio Dectet power conditioner.

For listening trials between the DAC-100 and DMC-600SE, both are connected to the Pass Labs XP-30 preamp through AudioQuest Sky Gen. 2 XLR interconnects. Switching between the two DACs is like switching between a standard definition and a high definition television, but again, for the system the DAC-100 is going in, it is perfect.

The DAC-100's manual says the USB output is the best sounding, and I concur. With the DAC-100 in my two channel system, I could hear differences between generic computer grade USB cables, a Pangea USB-PC cable and a Revelation Audio Labs Prophecy Cryo-Silver USB dual conduit cable. Unlike with the DMC-600SE and CD 306, I did not hear a difference between the RAL Prophecy CS dual conduit cable and the RAL Prophecy CS split configuration cable that allows disconnection of the power leg of the USB cable. I will redo USB cable trials when I set up the DAC-100 in my office system.

A full review of the DAC-100 is forthcoming in a month or so.

The next DAC to be evaluated for the two channel system will be a dCS Debussy...whenever it gets here. It's been on order since February.

tonyb

I'm kinda surprised you didn't opt for the 100t Ray. The tubed version garners better reviews than the SS version. Anyway, looking forward to your impressions.

tonyb

BTW....Ray, I think every Cary dac recommends the USB port as the best sounding, is there a specific reason for that ?

DarqueKnight

tonyb wrote: »

I'm kinda surprised you didn't opt for the 100t Ray. The tubed version garners better reviews than the SS version. Anyway, looking forward to your impressions.

The DMC-600SE has both tubed and solid state output stages, and I much prefer the solid state output. The tubed output is pleasant to listen to, but I can't tolerate the softness in the bass. I listen mostly to instrumental jazz. I took the tubes out of my DMC-600SE since I am not using them and since I leave my equipment on 24/7.

This reviewer of the DMC-600SE preferred the solid state output also:

"One interesting item which did seem to go counter to my experience with this equipment was my preference for the solid stage output stage rather than the tubed one. Although there were a few albums where I slightly preferred the tubes, overall it tended to cause a loss in sound depth and slight coloration to my ears, but certainly many listeners will find it more pleasing. Luckily, since the option exists to use either and switch during playback, there is no reason to decide."

Enjoy The Music - Cary Audio DMC 600SE Digital Music Center Review

tonyb wrote: »

BTW....Ray, I think every Cary dac recommends the USB port as the best sounding, is there a specific reason for that ?

The SPDIF and USB inputs use different processing chipsets. The DAC-100 uses an XMOS USB processor and a Wolfson WM 8805 processor for SPDIF.


Office rig source components, top to bottom: Bryston BDP-2 digital player, Nakamichi CA 5A II preamp, Cary Audio DAC-100. Hmmmm...I think I need to look into changing the CA 5A II's green LED to blue to match the other components.

I took the DAC-100 to work yesterday. On most 44.1kHz CD ripped files, I couldn't hear a difference between generic computer grade USB cables ($2-$5), a Pangea USB-PC cable ($35), or two versions of the Revelation Audio Labs Prophecy Cryo-Silver USB cable (dual conduit and split power/signal conduit) ($549).

On well-recorded high-rez files (88.1kHz and above) I could easily hear the difference between the generic, Pangea, and RAL cables. However, I didn't hear a difference between the two versions of RAL USB cable. In my two channel rig, removing the power leg of the RAL USB cable after the connection is established resulted in more clarity and detail due to a lowered noise floor.

The DAC-100 will be shipped back to Cary next week to have the LED brightness adjusted down.


The Bryston BDP-2 is loaded with over half of my CD collection and is programmed and controlled with a personal computer.

Replacing the Yamaha CDX-1110U CD player with the BDP-2/DAC-100 combo took my work time listening pleasure to another level.

EndersShadow

All that work to listen through those cheap dell speakers Ray???



I wish I could rock something like this at work, but in a cube... well headphones rule lol...

Maybe I will up my game like @ZLTFUL and get a little dot tube headphone amp for my over the ears to use with my iPhone 6 Plus...

DarqueKnight

EndersShadow wrote: »

All that work to listen through those cheap dell speakers Ray???

Hey now, those little cheap Dell speakers put bigger speakers to shame.

EndersShadow

DarqueKnight wrote: »

EndersShadow wrote: »

All that work to listen through those cheap dell speakers Ray???

Hey now, those little cheap Dell speakers put bigger speakers to shame.

Are they "game changers" perhaps "giant killer", or maybe even "they changed your view on everything"

pearsall001

Excellent write up! Any chance you might snag a Chord DAC to put it to the test in your system? They all seem to get such incredible across the board reviews.

tonyb

I dunno Phil, if Ray thinks the Cary 100t might be a tad warm for him, the Chord may also be....judging by reviews anyway.

DarqueKnight

pearsall001 wrote: »

Any chance you might snag a Chord DAC to put it to the test in your system? They all seem to get such incredible across the board reviews.

If someone sends me one.

[Deleted User]

pearsall001 wrote: »

Excellent write up! Any chance you might snag a Chord DAC to put it to the test in your system? They all seem to get such incredible across the board reviews.

The Chord is not for everyone. It will deprive everyone of their extended, exaggerated bass. A guitar will sound like a guitar drums will sound like drums. The separation is not just left to right but top to bottom.

Chord does so many things right but falls short in one area. When the music has many things going on. A symphony for instance..,. It can't handle it..

Halen

tonyb

halenhoang wrote: »

[
Chord does so many things right but falls short in one area. When the music has many things going on. A symphony for instance..,. It can't handle it..

Halen

Really ? First I'm hearing about this. That would be a deal breaker for me.

pearsall001

tonyb wrote: »

halenhoang wrote: »

[
Chord does so many things right but falls short in one area. When the music has many things going on. A symphony for instance..,. It can't handle it..

Halen

Really ? First I'm hearing about this. That would be a deal breaker for me.

I'm not buying it. The entire Chord DAC line has received world wide praise for it's ability to convey the music. If they weren't able to handle a symphony or bass I doubt they would be where they are today in the marketplace. First I ever heard it myself.

[Deleted User]

I have spent extensive time with Chord DAC's. The HD, EX and my favorite, the Hugo. I am not saying that complex passages sound bad or the bass is lacking on the Hugo. What I am saying, if people are expecting a bass heavy DAC, the Hugo is not for them. I personally like the way The Hugo handles the low end. I own the Hugo and spent great amounts of time listening and testing.

The speakers I used with the DAC's were the LSIM 705 and Usher 777 diamonds. Amps ranged from Unison Research to Pass Labs. Despite the fact that the Hugo clearly destroyed almost every other DAC's I tried, it's ability to resolve complex passages were discovered when I tried a Lamp DAC. Only then did I realize, the Hugo was messy with complex passages. Given that fact, it was still the best DAC I owned and leagues above others I tried.

That is my review and I don't get paid to publish it. It is not about "buying it" or not. Where were you when I was selling my Hugo. You could have "bought it". Haha

I am a huge Chord fan and expect to have the Hugo TT later this year.

Halen

txcoastal1

I'm gonna have to run the Dacs through the gamut

As far a I can remember no lack of bass with the Dyn's and hugo and we all know the Dyn's have a nice bottom end

You guys just make me work

[Deleted User]

txcoastal1 wrote: »

I'm gonna have to run the Dacs through the gamut

As far a I can remember no lack of bass with the Dyn's and hugo and we all know the Dyn's have a nice bottom end

You guys just make me work

Haha, while you are at it, be a darling, unbox the other Chord DAC too! Bass is super clean....

Halen

txcoastal1

I have unboxed it

It's what we used at LSAF, currently have it with Pass and MD2 combo. Have yet to put on the Modwright and Dyn's

WLDock

DarqueKnight wrote: »

The tubed output is pleasant to listen to, but I can't tolerate the softness in the bass. I listen mostly to instrumental jazz.

I bet we have similar taste in music and sound. I don't like soft loose bass either....drum/bass rhythm section background. I remember you said you played sax. Well, I'm a big Anita Baker fan. I have her albums, seen her live many times and met her once at a movie theater, LOL! I'm born and raised in Detroit. You live out West right? Southern Cal? Wow would I love to listen to your system. I was just out there a few weeks ago for work and had a free weekend in LA. I was looking for things to do and managed to find some live music. I saw Jeff Lorber Fusion at the Baked Potato in Studio City. Then on Sun saw a Drum & Bugle Corps show featuring the Pacific Crest Corps.


As always, great write-up and the system just keeps getting more and more awesome.

mantis

Once you go Computer music , other forms of media just don't seem to make sense anymore. At least for me that is.
I really don't ever spin disc's anymore other then Blu ray and even that is becoming a more rare move. Years ago every tuesday I would be at Best buy looking at the new releases and figuring out which ones I was taking home. Today I might buy 4 to 5 a year.
Music CD's are completely frustrating to try and go buy at a store. I do however miss the days of going threw the CD's and finding something cool to take home.
DAC's are fun. When I worked for Audiolab, we all loved playing with DAC's. When Audioquest came out with the Dragon Fly, we where all very impressed with it's performance especially for the asking price. It's also fun to keep climbing the ladder of higher and higher end DAC's and then throw in a more entry level model and discover some Gems.
One thing I don't like about computer music or maybe the way I went about it was using a software that works with iTunes. I was using Pure Music. Reason is that I met the owner of the company who designed the software, he did a workshop at our store and at the time it really made sense to get into it not to mention I got a steal of a deal on it.
The down side of that is when you live in the Apple world like I do , it kinda sucks because now some of your music will not play on lets say a iPhone or iPod. The only way I can listen to that music ( High REZ Flac )is just with the software connected to my DAC.
Sony's HAP line is where I think I'm gonna live unless I find something else I like better cost to performance ratio. They also have a portable unit that I have not yet checked out.
So now instead of managing my CD/ SACD/DVD AUDIO disc library, I have to manage my iTunes/ High REZ stuff.

Moose68Bash

DarqueKnight,

Great review, as always.

You're making me have the "itch" to try a higher-end DAC than the PS Audio DSD that I now have.

The DSD sounds great to me, but your reviews of it v. your Cary/Bryston combos make me wonder whether my sights are set too low!

DarqueKnight

mantis wrote: »

Once you go Computer music , other forms of media just don't seem to make sense anymore. At least for me that is.
I really don't ever spin disc's anymore other then Blu ray and even that is becoming a more rare move.

I am making plans to go totally disc free...even in my vehicles. I am looking at various solutions for ripping my DVD and Blu-ray collection to a server with solid state drives and I am looking at automotive head units that have a USB input. You're right about other media not making sense any more. I've even come to view CDs and DVDs as being as cumbersome as cassettes and 8-tracks. In addition to the convenience of being able to put a lot more music on a very small storage medium, there is the advantage of being totally free of mechanical transports with moving parts.

tonyb

I see anything mechanical or with moving parts as something in the chain that can either add to or subtract from the final sound you hear. Certainly understand though those wishing to remove that element from the signal path.

Ray, do you have a set amount/brands of dacs your going to review ? You mentioned another, just curious if your going to pick a few others.

DarqueKnight

tonyb wrote: »

Ray, do you have a set amount/brands of dacs your going to review ? You mentioned another, just curious if your going to pick a few others.

I started on this journey because I wanted a DAC with DSD capability and the sound quality had to at least equal the Cary CD 306 PV. The DMC-600SE is an excellent DAC, and is a little better in sound quality than the CD 306 PV, but it is not entirely compatible with my Bryston BDP-2 digital player and my dCS Puccini U-Clock. That is why I went for the dCS Debussy.

The main issue with the BDP-2 and DMC-600SE is that the DMC-600SE mutes the output when switching from one file resolution to another. For example, if I play a 44.1kHz file and follow it with a 96kHz file, the first few seconds of the beginning to the 96kHz file will be muted as the DMC-600SE uses relays to switch to accommodate the different file type (you can hear the relays softly clicking when they switch to a different resolution). Of course, the issue does not occur if I am listening to all the songs on the same album or if I am listening to a playlist that has all the songs recorded at the same resolution.

I have my music arranged in playlists that consists of music files from different albums recorded with different resolutions. It gets annoying when a significant number of music selections are missing the first few seconds of play. This is not an issue with playback from a computer running JRiver, because I can just add a couple of seconds of gap time between selections. The BDP-2 does not have a provision for adding gaps between selections. However, the CD 306 PV instantaneously switches from one file resolution to another without switching relays and muting.

There is an incompatibility between the dCS U-Clock and the DMC-600SE's clocking software that prevents it from selecting the U-Clock. Cary is working on a software update to address this.

Even if there were no operational issues, the small amount of improvement over the CD 306 PV doesn't justify the investment for me. When I put the CD 306 PV back in the chain, I don't miss the DMC-600SE and that's why the DMC-600SE is going up for sale when the Debussy gets here.

If the PS Audio DirectStream DAC had worked out, I would have stopped there. Assuming everything works out with the dCS Debussy, and dCS has assured me that it will, then I will stop there. That's not to say that I won't look at some other DACs for curiosity purposes.

vc69

I'll be interested to hear your thought on the Debussy. It's supposed to be "end-game" quality, however with things moving rather fast with regard to DAC tech, I'm not sure what that means anymore.

tonyb

Thanks for that explanation Ray. Man, I just find that odd behavior in a piece of that quality and price range. Even more odd nobody at Cary discovered this before putting it out there ?

I dunno, maybe it's just me expecting too much from an 8k piece of gear.

DarqueKnight

tonyb wrote: »

Thanks for that explanation Ray. Man, I just find that odd behavior in a piece of that quality and price range. Even more odd nobody at Cary discovered this before putting it out there ?

I dunno, maybe it's just me expecting too much from an 8k piece of gear.

The DAC world is aimed at people who use Mac and Windows PCs. The BDP-2 is a Linux-based music server. There were some interface issues with the BDP-2 and the DS DAC, but a workaround was found.

It was an oversight on Bryston's part not to include the capability of adding a gap of specified length between music files.

DSkip wrote: »

DK, check out AMR. They are the high end for iFi and though I haven't heard them, those who have heard them praise them highly (even those non-biased reports I've heard). From what I've heard with iFi, I couldn't imagine the AMR gear being anything short of spectacular. I'll have a few of their pieces in house on July 25, so I'll at least get to hear them and decide for myself.

Are you going to have the AMR DP-777 DAC?

machone

I also have had a digital journey this year. It started with my wish for better source material than my Sony DVD player. In addition wanted to be DSD compatible. I looked at the Oppo, Marantz and other players and in the end I decided to go with a computer. It is future proof and the most versatile solution for my needs. I already had an excellent laptop and an external USB hard drive. All I needed was a DAC and I decided to go with the Korg DSDAC-100 along with their Audiogate software. I selected Korg because they developed both the DAC and software together and Korg has been making DSD recording equipment for many years. I did this for a little over $350 and had it set up in less than one hour. It connects via USB with outputs to my preamp and also serves as a headphone preamp. I use it to convert ripped .wav files to DSD 5.6mhz on the fly as well as play native DSD files.

The Korg may not be in the same class as some of the DACs mentioned in this thread but it got me into quality DSD without a lot of money or hassle.

I am sold on DSD for sure; more natural; very nice listening.

There are very few car players that can handle high rez PCM or DSD files (at least that I can find). However I did stumble onto a FiiO X3 player ($200 at Parts Express) that can play most of the high rez PCM formats including DSD. I could output DSD files from the Korg, copy them to the FiiO and connect it to the aux input on my Alpine player. DSD in a car for $200?

Anyway it's all fun to me.

See attached article about DSD.

BlueFox

I am very happy with the performance of my Lumin S1, but I only have 1 DSD download, which is a late 60s/early 70s album by Canned Heat. It actualy sounds pretty good. However, so far every other album in DSD that I like, I already own in PCM format.

DarqueKnight

BlueFox wrote: »

However, so far every other album in DSD that I like, I already own in PCM format.

You are supposed to repurchase the PCM albums in DSD format. Do you want record company execs to starve?

WLDock

DarqueKnight wrote: »

I am making plans to go totally disc free...even in my vehicles. .. I am looking at automotive head units that have a USB input.

Pioneer makes a very nice affordable SQ based deck, the DEH-80PRS. It has two rear USB jacks, and one in the front.

Pioneer DEH-80PRS - $350 list

Burr-Brown® 24-bit D/A Converters:
Four-Layer Circuit Board Design:
Full-Custom High-Capacitance Power Supply Capacitor:
Sound Master Clock Circuitry:
28-bit Binary Floating-Point DSP:
3-Way Digital Network:
L/R Independent 16-Band Digital Equalizer:
Auto Time Alignment and Auto EQ:
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Car/CD-Receivers/DEH-80PRS



However, given your taste...the reference quality Pioneer Stage 4 products might be better suited: http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Car/Stage4

DEX-P99RS - $1349 list

L/R Independent 31-Band 1/3 octave Digital Equalizer
Auto Time Alignment and Auto EQ
32-Bit Binary Floating-Point DSP
4-Way Digital Network:
Copper-Plated Chassis
L/R Symmetric PCB
Custom-Made Capacitor
Digital Direct of iPod Music
L/R Independent High Volt Volume Circuit
New High-Precision Sound Master Clock Circuitry
Linear Technology's High Performance, High-Slew Rate OP Amp
24-Bit AKM DACs
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Car/Stage4/DEX-P99RS
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/member-reviews-product-comparisons/124148-dex-p99rs-ongoing-review-discoveries.html

I've used several of their DSP decks over the years and they offer a lot for the dollar.

BlueFox

DarqueKnight wrote: »

BlueFox wrote: »

However, so far every other album in DSD that I like, I already own in PCM format.

You are supposed to repurchase the PCM albums in DSD format. Do you want record company execs to starve?

Yes, I do feel quilty they have to go to bed hungry.