The Year Of DACs

tonyb

So your up at 1:30 A.M. chowing down Doritos and posting pics ? lol

Very nice Ray, still looking forward to the head to head results. BTW...."entry level" on that DCS stack ? I don't think those 2 words mean what you think they mean. LOL

[Deleted User]

I read this whole thread again this morning.
My conclusion is DACs are a beach.
Oh, and you kept your CDs

Moose68Bash

@DarqueKnight,

Thanks for yet another great story about your quest for audio nirvana.

Like others, I'm looking forward to your review of the present "end point" of your quest.

DarqueKnight

tonyb wrote: »

BTW...."entry level" on that DCS stack ? I don't think those 2 words mean what you think they mean. LOL

Well, that's what dCS calls them.

"Single box elegance at the cutting edge of standalone DAC design. Debussy is the entry point to the world of dCS and designed to be the hub of a digital playback system."

http://www.dcsltd.co.uk/debussy/

rednedtugent wrote: »

My conclusion is DACs are a beach.

Digital is a beach, DACs, cables, all of it...but it's nowhere near as big a beach as analog vinyl.

rednedtugent wrote: »

Oh, and you kept your CDs

I don't completely trust electronic storage media, whether its solid state or spinners. I have the BDP-2's solid state drive backed up on two other drives.

steveinaz

Too rich for my blood.

DarqueKnight

Further Study:

I just ordered a Bryston BDA-3 DAC. I decided I wanted a DSD-capable DAC for my office rig. I find it odd that the Bryston BDP-2 digital player outputs DSD via the AES and SPDIF outputs (in addition to DSD via USB), but the BDA-3 only accepts DSD input via USB.

The BDA-3 will replace the Cary DAC-100. The DAC-100 will go to the home theater rig.

txcoastal1

DarqueKnight wrote: »

Further Study:
but the BDA-3 only accepts DSD input rig.

Looks like to me they ditched the AES and SPDIF, so they could fit the HDMI inputs

DarqueKnight

Bryston's VP of sales and marketing provided this explanation:

"The reason we do not offer DSD playback on the BDA-3 on the AES and COAX ‘inputs’ has to do with the sample rate converters currently available. DSD samples at much higher frequencies than PCM and current sample rate converters are not capable of operating at those higher frequencies. The BDA3 is a modular design and some new sample rate converters being developed now claim they will offer native high resolution PMC 352 and PMC 384 sample rate capability as well as DSD. We will certainly look at them going forward and offer an upgrade if they perform better.

So to offer DSD on the AES or COAX inputs on the BDA-3 means you would have to bypass the sample rate converter on the AES or COAX inputs which would ‘increase jitter’ because our current sample converters in the BDA-3 reduce jitter on the input.

So in Bryston’s case we definitely want the sample rate converter in the circuit for 44.1 to 192 PCM signals. Also some DAC’s we have looked at that are DSD capable on those inputs convert all the incoming sample rates (44,48,88,96,176,192Hz) to a very high single sample rate ‘Asynchronously’ whereas our preference with our DAC’s is to maintain the ‘Native’ incoming PCM sample rate throughout the conversion process with all PCM signals. If we do up-sample we do it in a synchronous manner so (44.1 becomes 176.4 and 48 becomes 192) not asynchronous.

So the way USB works on the BDA-3 is we have a special input circuit that determines if the incoming signal is PCM or DSD and routes the signal to the appropriate input circuit. These are completely different circuit paths optimized for the different ways PCM and DSD are handled to optimize performance. So PCM from 44 to 384 is optimized as well as DSD DOP 64 and 128 and Native DSD 64 /128 and 356 (x1/x2/x4).

We feel this is the best option currently and due to the modularity of the BDA-3 we can make changes going forward as better devices are developed but maintaining and optimizing the best ‘NATIVE’ playback (either PCM or DSD) is am important goal in our designs."

[Deleted User]

SO that's it. U pays your dues, U make your choices.
Thanks DK.

markmarc

DK,
After reading this thread all I can say is that you are a very patient guy. I'm not surprised that in the end you went dCS after having spent time with a couple of models at ToneAudio studio. As much as I would like to update my DAC situation I'm waiting for the DSD & PCM technology to move downstream into DAC's I can afford without resorting to organ-selling.
As much as I appreciate the convenience of digitized music from my chair, getting up every 22 minutes is much better for my sciatic nerve! Not to mention the totally frivolous nature of the physical ceremony involved in listening to vinyl.

DarqueKnight

markmarc wrote: »

DK,
After reading this thread all I can say is that you are a very patient guy.

In this case, it was more endurance than patience.

asindc

DK,

Thanks for the follow up. I also look forward to your full review of the Debussy.

DarqueKnight

The Debussy DAC review is posted here:

http://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/170612/dcs-debussy-dac-review/p1

asindc

DarqueKnight wrote: »

The Debussy DAC review is posted here:

http://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/170612/dcs-debussy-dac-review/p1

Thanks.

DarqueKnight

***Update***

The year of DACs lasted...a full year. Proceedings began in December of 2014 and ended in December of 2015. As is typical of me, I went far beyond my initial upgrade plan. I had originally sought a DAC upgrade just for my two channel system. I ended up with a Debussy DAC/Puccini U-Clock system to replace the Cary Audio CD 306 Pro Version SACD player in my two channel system. I replaced all the electronics in my CD player-based office system with a computer audio system built around the Bryston BDA-3 DAC.

The journey was not always pleasant, but I learned a lot and I am very happy with how things turned out.

The winners:


Bryston BDA-3 DAC.


DCS Debussy DAC and dCS Puccini U-Clock word clock.

tonyb

Dang Ray, I want to be you when I grow up. Sweet no doubt, you must be in heaven. You ever leave the house anymore ?

DarqueKnight

tonyb wrote: »

Dang Ray, I want to be you when I grow up. Sweet no doubt, you must be in heaven. You ever leave the house anymore ?

I often leave the house to visit Internet cafes where I admire scantily clad women while sipping a delicious beverage and visiting audio forums to discuss expensive audio cables with tormented and demented naysayers.

agfrost

DarqueKnight wrote: »

I often leave the house to visit Internet cafes where I admire scantily clad women while sipping a delicious beverage and visiting audio forums to discuss expensive audio cables with tormented and demented naysayers.

I like how you roll...

tonyb

DarqueKnight wrote: »

tonyb wrote: »

Dang Ray, I want to be you when I grow up. Sweet no doubt, you must be in heaven. You ever leave the house anymore ?

I often leave the house to visit Internet cafes where I admire scantily clad women while sipping a delicious beverage and visiting audio forums to discuss expensive audio cables with tormented and demented naysayers.

Stop it Ray, or I'm going to develop a man crush on ya. All things I enjoy myself, except my internet café is a small desk in a small room and JBM coffee supplied by a generous member here. Command central, even have a red phone and a red button....don't know wtf they do but I have them. That's all that matters right ?

Any other thoughts on areas to improve or you pretty satisfied for now ? I would imagine you'd have to spend new car kinda coin to better what you have sitting there now.

footwedge

tonyb wrote: »

DarqueKnight wrote: »

tonyb wrote: »

Dang Ray, I want to be you when I grow up. Sweet no doubt, you must be in heaven. You ever leave the house anymore ?

I often leave the house to visit Internet cafes where I admire scantily clad women while sipping a delicious beverage and visiting audio forums to discuss expensive audio cables with tormented and demented naysayers.

Stop it Ray, or I'm going to develop a man crush on ya. All things I enjoy myself, except my internet café is a small desk in a small room and JBM coffee supplied by a generous member here. Command central, even have a red phone and a red button....don't know wtf they do but I have them. That's all that matters right ?

Any other thoughts on areas to improve or you pretty satisfied for now ? I would imagine you'd have to spend new car kinda coin to better what you have sitting there now.

Push the red button and Amazon will deliver you a surprise

DarqueKnight

tonyb wrote: »

Any other thoughts on areas to improve or you pretty satisfied for now ?

Satisfied? There is no such thing as satisfaction for those who have fallen into the Rabbit Hole. The best we can hope for is temporary contentment. The tragic thing, for my wallet, is that one thing leads to another. Computer audio upgrades in the 2 channel rig lead to a complete computer audio installation in the office rig...which lead to preamp and amp upgrades...which lead to a speaker cable upgrade...which lead to another DAC upgrade...which lead to interconnect and digital cable upgrades...which lead to another power amp upgrade.

I'm content (for now) with the 2 channel rig, although my search for better speakers is ongoing. I was talking to a Sonus faber dealer a couple of weeks ago about the Aidas ($120,000) and he said they don't produce as good as sound stage as my 1.2TLs. He should know, since he is a former and current owner of 1.2TLs (sold them a long time ago, then repurchased a pair recently).

As for improvements to the office rig, see the "Further Study" section of my BDA-3 DAC review:

http://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/172529/bryston-bda-3-dac-review

tonyb

I dunno Ray, you feel the 750 is up to snuff with it's playmates ? Tell ya what, that Rhumba pre would compliment them very well imho. No tube bloat, no SS sound either and a nice big and wide soundstage. I was kinda surprised you didn't get in on the demo, if not just to see how that 750 holds up.

DarqueKnight

tonyb wrote: »

I dunno Ray, you feel the 750 is up to snuff with it's playmates ?

I've wondered about that. That's why I'm considering the Musical Concepts mods for the 750. However, the 750 has been called a "giant killer" and has compared favorably to preamps costing over 4X its price. MC's mods address the corners Adcom cut to meet the $1499 price point. People who have modded 750s or had their 750s modded say the improvements give the 750 "world class" sound. I like this preamp design a lot and this is the third 750 I have owned.

I did compare a former 750 to a former Pass Labs X1 ($5900) preamp and the 750 was not "embarrassed" by the X1, the X1 just gave me more of what the 750 offered. That was not surprising since the X1 and the 750 are both Nelson Pass designs. Pass licensed the design of the Aleph P to Adcom.

http://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/44152/pass-labs-x1-preamp-vs-adcom-gfp-750-preamp

tonyb wrote: »

Tell ya what, that Rhumba pre would compliment them very well imho. No tube bloat, no SS sound either and a nice big and wide soundstage. I was kinda surprised you didn't get in on the demo, if not just to see how that 750 holds up.

I didn't know about the Rhumba demo. I searched and found the October 2015 thread. I definitely would have taken a chance on winning a free preamp!!!

tonyb

Gotcha man, then I guess it makes sense to do the mods. Which also means another review from you.

Mr_Hz

I've been 'making do' with a BDA-1 (complete with a power supply upgrade) over these past couple of years. I read your review of the BDA-3 versus the DeBussy... granted both in different price/performance leagues... but its encouraging. I look forward to eventually nabbing a BDA-3 for my main system. I am a Bryston fan, owning a few pieces of their kit. Next wave of upgrades, I'll look at jumping from the x-1 to the x-3. Could never justify moving from the 1 to the 2. First, have to rap up a number of SDA speaker upgrades.

machone

DK,
Musical Concepts upgraded my Hafler 500 amp and 110 preamp. The mods really changed the Haflers into something special. John knows his stuff is easy to talk to and does great work.

Joey_V

This was a helpful thread, thanks DK