A nice upgrade... hopefully...

Mystery

zarrdoss wrote: »

For the price you might check this out http://denver.craigslist.org/ele/4752120259.html

it got some good reviews and has a lot of flexibility for maybe trying bi-amp/ other configurations.

Thanks.
I saw that but if I buy it or the Parasound 855a (that was for $200 few days ago), I'll use it in the HT room.
Those are not much more power than the Speakercraft I have so will keep looing.

Mystery

Speakercraft vs crown vs qsc

---

Just to exercise available options, I tried all these amps today with Vandersteen 3A's.
None of them shut down at high levels bass heavy tracks.

1st place: Speakercraft BB275.
Very smooth, lots of details, more than enough volume but slightly boomy bass at high levels than I normally listen to. That could be the room/corner reflections as well.

2nd place: QSC RMX-1450
QSC is miles better sounding amp than the Crown.
Overall tone of the sound was slightly better than Speakercraft but it removed some details in the high frequencies plus fan was on constantly.
Music/vocals were tighter/toned and bass was tight as well, not boomy even at high levels. A lot more headroom available.

3rd place: Crown XLS1500
This is thin, tinny, hollow sounding compared to the other two above.

So I have the Speakercraft hooked up and it's a pretty decent amp until I find something better.

leftwinger57

Nice to know you at least had one. I can't afford to pick and choose amps so I'm sticking w/ my Adcom. I'm just showing my 2 racks not to show off but to get the loading of pix down on the new format

Mystery

Nice racks leftwinger.

*************


Does anyone here have experience with Marantz Monoblock MA500 amps?
I can get them $85 each.

http://www.hifiengine.com/manual_library/marantz/ma500.shtml


Specifications
Power output: 125W into 8Ω (mono)
Frequency response: 10Hz to 100kHz
Total harmonic distortion: 0.05%
Damping factor: 200
Input sensitivity: 1V
Signal to noise ratio: 116dB
Dimensions: 84 x 132 x 450mm
Weight: 6kg
Accessories: remote control cable
Year: 1993

zarrdoss

I don't have any experience with them but people swear by them.

tonyb

A tad bit on the lightweight side if you ask me. Not even rated for 4 ohm speaks.

Mystery

tonyb wrote: »

A tad bit on the lightweight side if you ask me. Not even rated for 4 ohm speaks.

Okay then, passing on them.

On the better move ( I hope ), I have a loaner Tandberg 3002 A preamp to try.
I'm not sure what to offer him if I like it.
It does have some scratchiness on volume knob due to not being used for a while.
Any experience with the Tandberg?
I've tried few different preamps before and the AP2500 bested them all.
Let's see how the Tandberg sounds. It does have some nice to have features like tone controls that's not in the AP2500.

Here is Tandberg in the forground and Harman Kardon Signature AP2500 under Rotel.



and hooked up. It's hard to compare preamps as I have to disconnect everything and reconnect.

Mystery

DSkip wrote: »

4. Upgrade your interconnects to Douglas Connection Furez IC's. At $100/pair, they are still (as you've probably heard me say) the best bargain in audio right now.

Thanks for suggestions. Will keep looking...

For the IC's, I have few different IC's that should be decent.
2 pairs of Tara Labs Prism 22
2 pairs of Delta Audio Tributaries
3 pairs of Wireworld Oasis III.

So Furez IC's are much better than those?

Also, you didn't mention anything on the preamp.
The DAC acts as a pre?

tonyb

Skips suggestions are pretty good as usual, but entail some coinage spent which doesn't appear to be a priority.

Tandberg stuff is pretty good...if you want to stay in that vintage sound realm. Many pre's today and even older will stomp it though.

Any cables you buy, buy used. You will get a bigger bang for your buck...and that goes for pretty much everything else too.

The tubed pre...SS amp suggestion is one most around here will agree with but not written in stone either. The Parasound P5 pre with built in dac too you can use is about as good as you can get sub 1000 bucks. Seen a few now for 900 which is a steal for what you get. A Older Cary AES tubed pre can be found for 5-700 also....in addition to the Dared recommendations. Yaqin is another budget pre to get your feet wet with.

Point of all this, stop wasting money on super vintage stuff unless that's your goal. Buy solid performers that will last many upgrades to your system and won't be outclassed should you find better speakers. Even if it's one piece a year you buy, it's worth it in the end.

Mystery

tonyb wrote: »

The tubed pre...SS amp suggestion is one most around here will agree with but not written in stone either.

Thanks.
That reminds me that I have a Musical Fidelity X10 Tube Buffer.
Worth a try between pre and amp?

leftwinger57

DSkip, While never tried a tube anything I have just a minor disagreement on going with boutique cable for such a small spred like Mystery is showing now. Again yes he should go to bi-wire for the 3As, I'm sure he can get by w/ BJC Belden 10/ 12 gu. at that length. I agree w/ Tony that he should at least go for a 200 wpc at the very least whether mono or combo , hybrid or whatever.

tonyb

DSkip wrote: »

Those are capable of being the centerpiece of one helluva 2 channel system.
.

Bingo...and pretty much what our comments revolve around. The speakers alone are worthy of something better than Belden or monoprice cables. Plus when you start there and work backwards, everything else has to be of similar quality if not better.

As far as the tube buffer goes....wouldn't hurt to try it but I would guess minimal benefits. Seems to me you have a lot of pieces laying around you can sell and buy something of quality with not much out of pocket additional.

Mystery

Thanks for comments and suggestions.
Yes I have bunch of audio gears that I have to sell and can easily get decent pieces from the $$$.
It's just that I haven't heard any gears that you guys are recommending so hesitating to spend. If I don't like them, I want to be able to recoup most of $$$ so will start looking at used gears.
Already spent few hours at Audiocircle and Audiogon.
***********
Anyways, there was one more placement I haven't tried before.
Remember I was asking if the left speaker should be moved to the corner?



I did that and listened a while. Center of speakers are around 11 feet apart.
It sounded better than when left speaker was right below the stairs but still it didn't have good stage. Music felt like it was coming from the speaker cabinets (they are but you know what I'm trying to say )
So read the 3A manual and removed washers from the rear spike of the sound anchor to tilt the speakers almost 2" as recommended by Vandersteen for 40" ear level at 9 feet distance.
Also toed them in slightly towards the listening position.

It sounds really nice now with great imaging and sound stage.
Music just envelops all around.

Mystery

Let's see what I can find.

BTW, I checked quite a few mid priced bi-wire cables and none of them even have 14 awg cables.
Some have equivalent of 15 awg from two 18 awg conductors.

This is Audioquest Hyperlitz Bi-wire cable that has 2 x 17 awg and 2x 20 awg.



Each terminal is getting either 17 or 20 awg cables.

***************

This is Audioquest Slate with 16, 18, 19 and 21 awg conductors that make up 14 awg for bass and 16 awg for treble.



Each terminal gets less than 16 awg cable in bi-wire mode as their equivalent awg is only if two are combined together in one terminal (same equivalent in bi-wire mode per side but not per terminal).

Just by the gauge size, what I'm using is better as each terminal is getting 16 awg so each +ve and -ve side is getting 13 awg equivalent.

I need to find bi-wire that uses at least 14 awg each conductor so it'll be 11 awg effective with bi-wire.
Canare 4s11 has four 12 awg conductors so equivalent will be 9 awg each side.
I'm not sure if any mid priced bi-wire cables have any thicker than that.

From what I researched, I should at least get 12 awg equivalent per side and that excludes a lot of Audioquest and other cables from the list as they all use much thinner cables.

Mystery

Quick question to those who have done similar.

Can I use banana plugs by taking out the screws or need to use spades specifically?
I tested and banana fits fine in the hole.

Mystery

Vandersteen replied that using banana plugs is not good as it only touches the inner thread surfaces.

What do you guys think of Bryston 3B amplifier?

Dennis Gardner

You can use an adaptor like this.





nakamichiplug.com/product-0537C14.html

Mystery

Looking for amps...
Any experience with Aragon 2002 Ultra2?
What's a good price to pay?

Also, I have conflicting specifications on this.
Some mentions it's 100 wpc while others mention it's 200 wpc.

Thanks for info.

Specifications
DESIGN 2-ch THX Ultra2 Amplifier
POWER OUPUT 8 200 watts/ch into 8 ohms at less than 0.03% THD (20Hz-20kHz - both channels driven)
POWER OUTPUT 4 300 watts/ch into 4 ohms at less than 0.05% THD
FREQUENCY RESPONSE 20Hz-20kHz +0/-0.1dB
10Hz-100kHz +0/-0.5dB
TIM/DIM DISTORTION 0.00%
S/N RATIO 106dB A-weighted
DAMPING FACTOR 500 (8 ohms - 50Hz)
INPUT SENSITIVITY 100mV-1W / 1.42V-200W
INPUT IMPEDANCE 20k ohms
POWER CONSUMPTION 60W @ Idle / 1000W Maximum
BUILT FROM 2002

BlueFox

That is very nice, but it also, to me, raises a few questions. If you already answered these in an earlier post, my apologies.

Did you try moving the couch and right speaker a bit more to the right? Also, why is a couch between the speakers, and not an open sided equipment rack? How far away is the gear? While I am sure it sounds great, the picture makes it appear the speakers are in a bright room. Have you thought of more carpeting, and something on the wall at a reflection point?

Mystery

DSkip wrote: »

What is your budget? Here is one that intrigues me:

http://app.audiogon.com/listings/solid-state-plinius-8200-integrated-amp-obm-2014-12-02-integrateds-07650-palisades-park-nj

Never heard that model.
The reason I'm asking about Aragon 2002 is because I have it as a loaner.
I asked the price but buddy said to try it out for few days and see if I like it.
He also has bunch of Kimber black/brown braided cables but those are awfully thin.
They are not even 20 awg (4 black/4 brown strands) so didn't care for them as two each terminal makes it 17 awg.



I listened to few songs on Rotel RB-990BX and then plugged the Aragon.
Preamp was untouched but the volume level was less on Aragon.
So either it's not 200wpc or the Rotel is more than rated 200wpc as the Rotel was at higher level.

Aragon sounded slightly laid back (smooth?) and slighlty more bass than the Rotel.
Or it could be because they were at lower volume.
I increased volume level and it sounds pretty much the same as Rotel except slight emphasis on bass.
They both sound almost exactly same.

I'll do more comparison in the next few days.

BlueFox wrote: »

That is very nice, but it also, to me, raises a few questions. If you already answered these in an earlier post, my apologies.

Did you try moving the couch and right speaker a bit more to the right? Also, why is a couch between the speakers, and not an open sided equipment rack? How far away is the gear? While I am sure it sounds great, the picture makes it appear the speakers are in a bright room. Have you thought of more carpeting, and something on the wall at a reflection point?

Yes tried different placements and thinking about other things you mentioned.

Mystery

Not sure about THX denomination in this particular model but Aragon is highly regarded amp.
They bring big bucks if you check Audiocircle and Audiogon.
200 wpc are selling for around $800.

Mystery

There was a B&K ST-202 today for $100 but someone beat me to it by few minutes.

My buddy also has an Emotiva UPA-200 (125/200 wpc) that I can bring next week to try as I'm thinking I'm not gaining much replacing Rotel by the Aragon.
I know quite a few here hate Emotiva but I can try for free so may do that.

marvda1

the aragon name was purchased by another company.
here is one of the originals by mondial (krell).
http://app.audiogon.com/listings/solid-state-aragon-4004-mkii-2-ch-dual-monaural-stereo-200pch-power-amplifier-amp-2014-12-02-amplifiers-90039-los-angeles-ca

zarrdoss

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Aragon-4004-Dual-Mono-Power-Amplifier-/111540333431?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19f8526b77

Mystery

zarrdoss wrote: »

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Aragon-4004-Dual-Mono-Power-Amplifier-/111540333431?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19f8526b77

I don't think I'll buy it as I didn't see any improvement over Rotel.
This may be better model than the one I have but this is the reason why I hesitate to spend on amplifiers.
I may spend a lot more to gain some or nothing...

[Deleted User]

Mystery wrote: »

My buddy also has an Emotiva UPA-200 (125/200 wpc) that I can bring next week to try as I'm thinking I'm not gaining much replacing Rotel by the Aragon.
I know quite a few here hate Emotiva but I can try for free so may do that.

I like my modest 2-channel set up with a XPA-200, but I don't think you will get much out of the UPA-200. Kind of the opposite of where you are going. The price is right thou on trying it out...

zarrdoss

Yeah pretty much, its always a gamble, trying to find stuff you can audition before you buy or get your money back out of is the trick. If your buddy will let you demo amps then whats the risk? I have heard this Aragon amp and it was very neutral. The ATI over the Rotel on my Sony ES SS M7's was a really noticeable and a clear improvement, not at lower levels though. I would not obsess over finding another amp though, it should be a journey and not a destination, the right one will come along just like those Vandersteens.

Mystery

zarrdoss wrote: »

it should be a journey and not a destination,

Words of wisdom.

Loud & Clear

Amps will make minor changes to your sound. Wires won't do anything. But those speakers you have are fantastic. Enjoy.

Mystery

I'm really finding it hard to correctly place these speakers in my room.
I've been dragging them all around the room and still feel the placement options are limiting them to sound better.

Where are the tweeters for my Sonus Fabers?
Oh, they are still on the way from Norway.
Hopefully, they'll be easier to setup.