A nice upgrade... hopefully...

Mystery

Hopefully, these can show Boston A400's the door.

EndersShadow

Nice!

Mystery

The sound anchors have big spikes.
What's best to protect Hardwood floor?
They are heavy so need something heavy duty.

marvda1

http://app.audiogon.com/listings/tweaks-gregitek-floor-discs-spike-plates-in-red-or-silver-2014-11-13-accessories-92307-apple-valley-ca

Mystery

marvda1 wrote: »

http://app.audiogon.com/listings/tweaks-gregitek-floor-discs-spike-plates-in-red-or-silver-2014-11-13-accessories-92307-apple-valley-ca

Thanks. They'll work but pricey.
Similar ones are much cheaper here:
www.ebay.com/itm/321227557776

But I don't like metal on the bottom as it will make some marks due to the weight.

Need something that has metal on the top or in the middle with rubber or felt on the bottom.

cnh

Give us a review when you're ready.

I know any number of speakers that can "show up" classic vintage speakers. But you know, I love that "vintage" sound so much that I would miss it even if I had SUPER speakers that cost six figures! But that's just me, I'm a nostalgia man, after all!

Have fun!

cnh

Mystery

cnh wrote: »

Give us a review when you're ready.

I know any number of speakers that can "show up" classic vintage speakers. But you know, I love that "vintage" sound so much that I would miss it even if I had SUPER speakers that cost six figures! But that's just me, I'm a nostalgia man, after all!

Have fun!

cnh

I'm not sure if these qualify as vintage or not since some of these are actually from 1995 so we can still say semi-vintage.
http://www.stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/128/

Or it could be the from 2005 or even later. Who knows since Vandersteen doesn't keep track of manufacture dates. I've seen some 3A's with serials at around 8000 and my pair has 10000+ so not the earliest ones.

Edit: After some research, these are definitely after 2003.
So no vintage sound but good thing is crossover needs no update for a while.

Here is a pair at Audiogon with serials 10226 and 10227 that were purchased new in 2003.
http://app.audiogon.com/listings/full-range-vandersteen-3a-signature-2013-02-09-speakers-06475-old-saybrook-ct

Mine is 10276 so around 50 units after that.

I had Vandersteen 1's before and they sounded very good.
Very clean and clear like studio.

These are 3 or more steps up model from them so will be interesting.
They look huge in my room. With the sound anchors, they are almost 50" tall.

These are rated at 100 - 200 watts.
Since they are 6 ohms, my Rotel will give them around 250 since it's 200 w at 8 ohms and 330 w at 4 ohms.
So power is covered or I can use the Crown XLS1500 if I needed more.

Waiting for the flooring guy to get some finishing pieces before I can set these up properly.

zarrdoss

You drove all the way to Lyons for those? I thought I was bad driving to Niwot the other night in a snowstorm for speakers, lol. I thought about them but was leery because I could not find out what the surrounds were made of online and there is no real way to check without removing the socks, well maybe a powerful flashlight. I have had the Vandersteen 1c? before and really liked them.
Nice find, I hope they work out for you, don't mess your back up moving them, lol.
Congratulations.

Mystery

zarrdoss wrote: »

You drove all the way to Lyons for those? I thought I was bad driving to Niwot the other night in a snowstorm for speakers, lol. I thought about them but was leery because I could not find out what the surrounds were made of online and there is no real way to check without removing the socks, well maybe a powerful flashlight. I have had the Vandersteen 1c? before and really liked them.
Nice find, I hope they work out for you, don't mess your back up moving them, lol.
Congratulations.

Thanks.
Yes, it was a horrible drive, specially after Boulder. Snow pack and wet road, poor visibility.
Tires spinning/slipping in few places and crawling speeds on any downhill.
Took me over 3 hours round trip.

I think vandersteen used rubber after initial 2 model.
I also had 1's before and liked them.
You should have gotten these.
These are amazing speakers.

When I got to seller's place, he was getting calls and told me that someone called and told him that they are 3A signature, not just 3 as listed in the ad and sell for $1800. He almost turned me back saying he'll revise the ad with new price.
Glad we worked it out otherwise I'd be pissed off driving in that weather that far for nothing.
Yes, these are 3A Signature.
Btw, what did you drive to Niwot for?

zarrdoss

Well money is tight right now and you will probably sell these in a month or two anyway, lol. I went and got these for 20 bucks http://boulder.craigslist.org/ele/4763199132.html The guy has not taken the add down, they turned out to be the Altec Lansing 301's. These are after the sparkomatic buy out but still good speakers and got some good reviews. http://www.stereophile.com/content/altec-lansing-301-loudspeaker The foam is shot of course but for 20 bucks I figured what the heck. I did some low level listening before I stripped off the old surrounds and was blown away. These are the deals I try to find these days.
Keep us posted on your impressions of these.

Mystery

Wow that's a deal.

These 3A signatures are the most I paid to seller for speakers so far.
There are few like the Sonus Faber that need two new tweets to drive up the price to close range but that's on top of what seller got.

I have the 3A's hooked to a crappy receiver and already impressed.
Very big and balanced sound.
Vocals and highs so clean, open and effortless.
These don't need a sub at all.

I don't think I'll sell these right away unless I prefer the Sonus that are much smaller.
Size is a concern as 3A's look/are huge.

voltz

store.acousticsounds.com/d/37541/Vandersteen-3A_Signature_Upgraded_Model_3A-Speakershttp://

I've looked at these so many times and dreamed.

Mystery

voltz wrote: »

store.acousticsounds.com/d/37541/Vandersteen-3A_Signature_Upgraded_Model_3A-Speakershttp://

I've looked at these so many times and dreamed.

Dreams come true sometimes.

zarrdoss

"Size is a concern as 3A's look/are huge. "

One of the reasons I didn't want them, Kind of tired of speakers you need a hand truck to move, lol

Mystery

Floor still needs some touchups but couldn't wait and hooked the Rotel last night.




If you recall my thread on Vandersteen 1's, (forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/147160/how-is-your-experience-with-vandersteen-model-1s), 1's sounded very clean, studio like.

These are much better than 1's.
I think this is the first time I forgot about speakers when listening music.
Music was not limited to the two speakers. It was all around and nothing crowded.
Every instrument was clean, clear, separate, open and effortless, yet all came together.

I haven't cranked them too loud but at normal levels, so easy on the ears.
No stress, no spikes, just smooth and detailed music.
Very very musical speakers.
So to sum up, two thumbs and two toes way up.

Right now, they are around 8 feet apart and my couch is around 9 feet from each speaker.
Once flooring is done for good, need to move around things to see where they look/fit/sound even better.
Then I can bring another pair to compare if needed.

The only thing that bothers me is the height of tweeters.
It's much higher than ear level when sitting on the couch.
I guess Vandersteen compensated for that when designing tall floor standers.

zarrdoss wrote: »

"Size is a concern as 3A's look/are huge. "

One of the reasons I didn't want them, Kind of tired of speakers you need a hand truck to move, lol

I was thinking of the same thing and got scrapes moving that 100 lb speaker but always wanted to move up the ladder to mid/hi-fi .

voltz

Nice! Glad your Dream came true Maybe someday I too will know the joy your ears are enjoying! I'm glad you really do like them as they have always had me wondering just how good they are.

zarrdoss

I am glad you like them, Have you messed with toe in? And yes try other amps, I have the same Rotel that you do and it works with most speakers but some they just do not. You should also try some room treatments, Guitar center has some for cheap that look nice and they make a world of difference. It will be interesting when you get those Sonus going to compare them to. Yes those were a steal for 3A signatures. I have heard a pair and was impressed as well.

Mystery

DSkip wrote: »

Mystery, maybe stick with these and start rolling through some amps. Rotel doesn't do it for my ears, and I'd never throw a pro amp on a good pair of speakers (no offense to you or the crown).

I'd not think about pro amps neither but the Crown xls series have great reviews with home audio speakers so the thought. Many say they are better than many high priced home amplifier if you go through the thread:
http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=210902

As per that thread, XLS series sounded great with speakers like Revel Salon 2's, B&W 802, etc...



However, I'm keeping eyes open for good amps but don't plan on getting CARY CAD-211 AE monoblocks (that have great review with 3A's) unless I get a deal on them like on the speakers.

zarrdoss wrote: »

I am glad you like them, Have you messed with toe in? And yes try other amps, I have the same Rotel that you do and it works with most speakers but some they just do not. You should also try some room treatments, Guitar center has some for cheap that look nice and they make a world of difference. It will be interesting when you get those Sonus going to compare them to. Yes those were a steal for 3A signatures. I have heard a pair and was impressed as well.

Will setup better when flooring is complete.
Also need to bi-wire as recommended by Vandersteen.

Mystery

DSkip wrote: »

I'm sure it sounded fine. Did it sound great? That's the question. Beating out some high dollar amps is not much of a feat - the second question is, which ones did it beat out?

I'm glad you're looking that direction more.

I'm sure they won't be as good as $7.5k Cary but the xls series reviews say they sound better than most cheaper home amps that cost a lot more than the xls series amps.
The thread mentions Emotiva and other mid price amps. i haven't read all the posts though.
Here is more detail if you have time: http://www.hometheaterequipment.com/mono-stereo-amps-59/crown-audio-xls-drivecore-series-amplifier-official-thread-1319/

zarrdoss

My Sony ES SS M7 just did not like the Rotel at all, I found an ATI AT1502 for less than the Rotel and is a much better amp for the Sonys than the Rotel. You might find out the Rotel sounds just fine with those. But you never know until you try. I would get the room finished and find the optimum set up. With no carpet I would strongly suggest room treatments. I simply could not believe the difference they make. Then if it seems the Rotel is just coming up short and is not a good match with these then see what else is out there, I think you have the right speakers, its just about matching them with the right gear, Enjoy

Mystery

zarrdoss wrote: »

My Sony ES SS M7 just did not like the Rotel at all, I found an ATI AT1502 for less than the Rotel and is a much better amp for the Sonys than the Rotel.

Looks like that's another rabbit hole for me.
The Rotel is rated at 200 wpc @ 8 ohms and 330 wpc @ 4 ohms.
3A's are 6 ohms so I'm guessing Rotel can push at least 250 wpc at that load???

I only have one other amp for home audio.
That's Speakercraft BB275 (75 wpc) that I can try even though it doesn't have enough juice.
For others, need to keep eyes open so I can resell if I don't like them without losing much.
I don't want to buy just to try and then lose money afterwards if the Rotel sounds better.
For some reason, I find a lot of good speakers for good prices but it's very hard to find a good amp for good price.

*********************************************

Back to 3A's.
For now, I'm using Rotel RB-990BX amp with Harman Kardon Signature AP2500 pre and Nakamichi CD changer.
Interconnects are Delta Audio Tributaris from CD to pre and Tara Labs Prism 22 from pre to amp.
Speaker cables are Proflex by Pro Connect (no idea how good/bad these are).

These speakers have controls for mids and highs on the back. They are both at 0db at the moment.
Speakers are against the wall but due to the sound anchors, speaker cabinets are around a foot away from wall so not too bad.
My living/dining room is around 25 ft x 12.5 ft.
There is a small arch that divides the two areas so living room alone where the speakers are measures 12.5 x 12.5 with one side open to dining.
May be not ideal for the 3A's.
I can put them on the window side but then I have to put couch in the middle of the room making the whole room cluttered.
Will see what works best later.

This time listened at little higher than normal volume.
It was peaking at 91-92dB with median at around 79-81dB at my listening position using Android noise meter app.

Two things are very unique:
1. The highs extend/project way past me.
I have listened to many different tweeters from soft dome, horn, burhoe etc... but none of them project highs with that extension way past me.
I am listening to the same CD's that I've had for years.
Most other speakers end highs too soon or they don't have enough force/snap/impact.
I'm not sure if I'm describing properly.
I have Klipsch horns that are louder but even they don't have that upper frequency extension/impact.
I only realized that after 3A's had that additional impact in the highs in some parts of songs and I thought, "Hmm that was there all the time?".
And that sounds very good.

2. Another is the bass.
The bass is very very fast and goes back to blackness (new word I learned ).
It's like springy action. I'm not sure if that's from the 8" woofer or the 10" woofer.
I can hear bass from drums as well as tacky sound from hitting the drums.
The boom of one note doesn't go over another note.
It's produces bass and goes back quickly to produce another one.
I have sealed speakers with fast bass but these are even faster.

Also, when I was listening to some female vocals at the top of their lungs (like Unbreak my heart), I always noticed some peaky notes that are slightly harsh when they sing at their full volume.
However, with 3A's, my mind was expecting that peak on the vocals and it's not there.
It's just smooth and rolls off cleanly.

Highlight: I was listening to few songs before heading to work this morning and after few songs, baby woke up and wife came downstairs with the baby.
She stood there for few minutes listening and said, "These speakers are really very good".

She likes Bostons as well and doesn't want to sell them so we are planning on putting them in another room.
That means, Bostons may never go head to head against the 3A's.

tonyb

A lot of what your describing can be associated with the attached gear and cables and not necessarily the speakers.

If the speaks sound that good now, to me that means they have more potential in them. Give them nice companions to play with and they may reward you further.

Mystery

tonyb wrote: »

A lot of what your describing can be associated with the attached gear and cables and not necessarily the speakers.

If the speaks sound that good now, to me that means they have more potential in them. Give them nice companions to play with and they may reward you further.

Yes, that could be and may be what I'm thinking good may be actually something bad or not what it's supposed to sound.
May be it should have the peak on female voice or may be the bass should sound different from 3A's with nice sources.
Either way, even with my current setup, they are likeable.
I'll do the bi-wiring soon and keep eyes open for sound absorbers, amps etc...

boston1450

Beautiful speakers Mystery. Great review on your impressions. Can you post pics how you set them up when completed & changes you made ? i know years ago i had some Vanders & they were outstanding speakers. Not that model & id love to own them bad boys

cnh

A high end like that would drive me out of the room in no time! Kinda like B&W highs, which I really DISLIKE!

Apologies to Tony, but if speakers have highs like that, cables might help some but they won't eliminate the inherent personality of the speaker itself. Yes they have an effect, the question is, how much and with what speakers and that's experiential and subjective most of the time.

To my ears even the Boston A200s I have with the SEAS tweeters can edge toward "sharp" highs now and then depending on the source materials.

Sounds like we have "different" tastes, Mystery. These old ears like it soft and warm or what they call "musical". lol

Have fun. Yeah, Rotels are NOT warm amps! Maybe you should get into some tubes, but it sounds like they might be too "warm" for you. lol No one is going to accuse CROWN amps of being that!

cnh

tonyb

DSkip wrote: »

Cables can make a massive difference, but the bigger issue here I think is pairing the proper amp with the speakers. I think the most important synergistic relationship is that between the speakers and the amp. If this pairing is mismatched, there is absolutely no way you are going to get great sound.

Spot on pal, my cable suggestion was meant to be in addition, not the sole solution, which they never are anyway. Better cables will never cure sonic deficiencies of that magnitude, but they can help a great deal in making some unpleasant characteristics tolerable.

Gear matching...synergy is always the first solution, AND more times than not, the only one.

hochpt21

I know of a nice, powerful, musical B&K amp that might work well with those

Glad you got a nice pair of speakers!

Mystery

Thanks all for comments.

boston1450 wrote: »

Beautiful speakers Mystery. Great review on your impressions. Can you post pics how you set them up when completed & changes you made ? i know years ago i had some Vanders & they were outstanding speakers. Not that model & id love to own them bad boys

I had them on the side wall (where the lamp is now) as shown in the pic above but they kinda come too far in the room making the room narrow.
So now I have them moved to the window side around 8 feet apart with a couch in the window pocket that saves a lot of room space.
I have the amp (have enough room above it), pre and cd player under the couch so that's even more space saving.
Good thing is I can sit as far as 10 to 15 feet as the room is long with that configuration.
Bad part is the left speaker is on the corner against the wall and not enough space to bring too far from the wall without blocking the window pocket area.



Black couch and chairs also have wood on the bottom to match the Vandersteens wood end caps.


These sound great with CD but not that great with my 1.8mm to RCA from tablet.
Could be the low volume/quality tablet output. Need a DAC I suppose.

Waiting for the Sonus tweeters to arrive.
If they sound close to 3A's, I'll keep the Sonus there due to the room size/shape limitation and move the 3A's to basement or somewhere else.

cnh wrote: »

A high end like that would drive me out of the room in no time! Kinda like B&W highs, which I really DISLIKE!

Apologies to Tony, but if speakers have highs like that, cables might help some but they won't eliminate the inherent personality of the speaker itself. Yes they have an effect, the question is, how much and with what speakers and that's experiential and subjective most of the time.

To my ears even the Boston A200s I have with the SEAS tweeters can edge toward "sharp" highs now and then depending on the source materials.

As I said, I may not be describing what I hear correctly.
The highs have more details and snap but not harsh.
These are easier to ears than the A400's as far as I remember but haven't done a direct comparison.
If I want loud and harsh, I have Klipsch.

I've been reading discussions on speaker cables from zip cord, homedepot lamp cord, Canare, Belden, Furez, Knukonceptz to snake oil filled cables (no offense to those who are using it) costing more than what the 3A's sell new for that I can't afford.
I'm not buying snake oil cables without free audition so I'll make a DIY bi-wire with 12 or 14 awg wire from the budget group (canare, furez, knukonceptz) and copper spades.
Unless of course I win powerball.

[Deleted User]

"I'll make a DIY bi-wire with 12 or 14 awg wire from the budget group (canare, furez, knukonceptz) and copper spades.
Unless of course I win powerball."
If you win, you can hire someone to make the bi-wire.

leftwinger57

I believe Stereophile Magazine did a review of the 3As.They said for the price they are the best speaker you can get and that's list price. When I was shopping before I got my 2Bs I heard them up at Audio Connection in Jersey and was very impressed. You've been through a hell of a lot more speaker sets than me and by far the 3As are keepers. Richard Vandersteen himself said that you should use the bi-cable and did not schill for any company as you already alueded to.

Mystery

leftwinger57 wrote: »

I believe Stereophile Magazine did a review of the 3As.They said for the price they are the best speaker you can get and that's list price. When I was shopping before I got my 2Bs I heard them up at Audio Connection in Jersey and was very impressed. You've been through a hell of a lot more speaker sets than me and by far the 3As are keepers. Richard Vandersteen himself said that you should use the bi-cable and did not schill for any company as you already alueded to.

Stereophile reviewed 3A model.
stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/128/
I can't find Stereophile's review for 3A signature.

However, a lot of reviews on other sites.
soundstage.com/revequip/vandersteen_3a_signature.htm
It mentions the signature version is better than 3A with the following differences in speakers, mostly due to use of model 5 components:

What’s different?
Vandersteen’s Model 3 has been available since the late ‘80s. In the early ‘90s, it morphed into the much-improved 3A. The 3A Signature grew out of the work done during the development of the $9800-per-pair Model 5, Vandersteen’s current flagship loudspeaker. Using the 3A as the basis for comparison, the differences in the 3A Signature are as follows:
•all the critical capacitors and resistors in the crossover are replaced with the same-quality parts used in the Model 5 crossover;
•additional bracing is installed in the bass enclosure;
•the same tweeter used in the Model 5 is installed;
•the crossover is modified for the Model 5 tweeter;
•phase-compensating networks separate from the crossover are installed for the midbass and midrange drivers and are hand-tuned for each midbass/midrange driver combo plus the left and right speaker, so the speakers match each other;
•price includes large Sound Anchor rear braces; these are a $200 extra-cost option on the 3A.

Also great review here: positive-feedback.com/Issue34/vandersteen_3a.htm

I read threads where Vandersteen Treo owners are using 10 gauge Belden wires so budget wires are good for me.
stereophile.com/content/vandersteen-audio-treo-loudspeaker

boston1450 wrote: »

Beautiful speakers Mystery. Great review on your impressions. Can you post pics how you set them up when completed & changes you made ? i know years ago i had some Vanders & they were outstanding speakers. Not that model & id love to own them bad boys

I thought about placement last night and came up with what I think is the best possible location for these in that room.
Instead of the window side, they are now by the stairs.
They are around 5.5 feet apart cabinet to cabinet and around 7 feet apart from middle of the cabinet.
Both speakers now have over 5 feet on each side and I can sit as far as 9 feet away from the speakers.
Left speaker is right where the stairs start so it's not blocking entry way from front hallway but looks little constricted.
Now need to find a small audio/tv rack for the gears.
They sound better than when they were on the window side.
The only other option left is to put them in the middle of the room between dining and living area and that's not happening.

Here are pics of the new placement:


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