A nice upgrade... hopefully...

sucks2beme

DSkip wrote: »

A little background on Plinius - they are THE company that put integrated amplifiers on the map. The Plinius 8100 (think that is the correct model) was the first integrated that the industry could agree on sounding as good as a well set up separates rig. I don't think much has changed under the hood over the years, but they are still a very respected company. They are based in Australia or somewhere in that region, which is why I don't think they quite as much play time as the standards over here in the states.

There was one on craiglist for a few months in this area and I almost jumped on it. It was more money than I had at the time and there was an issue with it, but I still couldn't stop thinking about it.

I guess I wasn't alone then!!

tonyb

Loud & Clear wrote: »

Amps will make minor changes to your sound. Wires won't do anything. .

You couldn't be more wrong about so much.

Mystery,
Plinius makes some fine amps, top of the line amps, so don't exclude them simply because you never heard one.

The Aragon.....it's not a mismatch of power specs between that and the Rotel. One glaring reason is the input impedance is 20 ohms, what was the output impedance of the next component upstream ? Don't know ? Did you bother to check ?

These are the things you need to pay attention to instead of watts per channel. Amperes peek to peek is another.

Impedance matching your gear so it's compatible with each other is very important. The differences can be a dull and lifeless sound as opposed to one that's very dynamic and the music flows out of.

tonyb

While I'm on a roll, let me add that a used Parasound 1200 mk2 or a used B&k can both be had in the 4-600 buck range easily. Plus with the demand for these amps if you had to sell you'd lose zip in the way of coin. Either are head and shoulders above the Rotel.

But....if your not going to invest in decent cables to connect everything up, imho your wasting your time. The higher up the chain in gear you go, the better the cables that are required to extrude the quality they offer. Make sense ?

tonyb

exactly Skip....thanks for the clarification.

Mystery

tonyb wrote: »

Loud & Clear wrote: »

The Aragon.....it's not a mismatch of power specs between that and the Rotel.

Yes, I figured that out.
Aragon requires a higher input voltage than the Rotel.
So it's non issue to increase preamp volume few clicks.

tonyb

Mystery wrote: »

tonyb wrote: »

Loud & Clear wrote: »

The Aragon.....it's not a mismatch of power specs between that and the Rotel.

Yes, I figured that out.
Aragon requires a higher input voltage than the Rotel.
So it's non issue to increase preamp volume few clicks.

Didn't say anything about the input "voltage", though I probably should have. I said "impedance". Whats the output impedance of the next component up stream ? I'm betting it's in the 47-50 ohm area.

gp4jesus

Mystery wrote: »

I listened to few songs on Rotel RB-990BX and then plugged the Aragon.
Preamp was untouched but the volume level was less on Aragon.
So either it's not 200wpc or the Rotel is more than rated 200wpc as the Rotel was at higher level.

My Belles' & Rotel (985) are rated @ 100 WPC; Haflers @ 145 WPC. Yet the Rotel is "louder..."??? Its a gain structure thing - not a power thing.. Probably true in your case too.

tonyb

gp4jesus wrote: »

Mystery wrote: »

I listened to few songs on Rotel RB-990BX and then plugged the Aragon.
Preamp was untouched but the volume level was less on Aragon.
So either it's not 200wpc or the Rotel is more than rated 200wpc as the Rotel was at higher level.

My Belles' & Rotel (985) are rated @ 100 WPC; Haflers @ 145 WPC. Yet the Rotel is "louder..."??? Its a gain structure thing - not a power thing.. Probably true in your case too.

Could be gain....then again could not. Just too many variables that go into it. In other threads we talk about damping factors, then we have impedance matching, then we have cables, which have varying degrees of resistance and other boring specs.

So what, what does it all mean anyway ?

To make a bunch of boring specs, theories, and other scientific jargon come together in layman's terms, we like to call that "synergy". You hear us say that word a lot around here. It's better than boring the heck out of people with the science of it all. It's all the pieces in you system playing well together in harmony. It's why one piece sounds like crap in one system, and Gold in another. Why one cable sounds like a wet noodle in one system, and is the second coming of Jesus in another.

See where I'm going yet ?

Many times in audio we like to blame a certain piece for sounding bad....or good, but in reality that one piece may simply be hindering the flow of the signal between all pieces, or...making it all jive better together. Could be that one piece is showing a mismatch somewhere else in your system. So we let our ears be the judge, pay little attention to the specs, science of it all. The majority of people are uninterested in the science of it all anyway. The whole purpose though, is to make better buying decisions based on specs, science....for which your odds of system synergy then greatly improve.

For most people, most mid-fi systems, things like damping factors, impedance matching, cables....are of little concern. Many manufacturers these days don't make amps or components wildly mismatched anyway, but when dropping big coin on a piece it's better to pay attention to these things than not. If your the kind that likes to mix and match gear, new and old, then pay attention.

Better to have some knowledge and never have to use it, than not have any when you need it.

gp4jesus

This gain/louder thing threw me a curve ball - "Where's the bass?"
The Rotel driving my CC & LR tops, Belles' driving LR bottoms.
Took some fiddlin', listenin', and tweeking to correct my LCR tonal balance.

tonyb

as long as everything is working to your liking, rock on bro.

gp4jesus

"Better to have some knowledge and never have to use it, than not have any when you need it."

Great stuff, Tony!

Merry Christmas to all

Mystery

Was planning on buying Parasound HCA-1500A from audiogon but someone was quicker than me.

Mystery

DSkip wrote: »

What about Assimilated's Halo A-23? He has it at a very attractive price.

Looked at that. Not enough power from what I think I need.
Looking at around 200 wpc at least.

voltz

I would think the Halo A-23's solid 125wpc with a P-5 Preamp would power most speakers just fine.
My Vincent Hybrid amplified is 150WPC and I would not be afraid of running most speakers with it. I would think it would be fine with the 3A but I don't know that for a fact.

Mystery

voltz wrote: »

I would think the Halo A-23's solid 125wpc with a P-5 Preamp would power most speakers just fine.
My Vincent Hybrid amplified is 150WPC and I would not be afraid of running most speakers with it. I would think it would be fine with the 3A but I don't know that for a fact.

May be but 3A's are not just any speaker.
I've been reading about Parasound and HCA versions with similar power of same Halo version is much cheaper but sound wise not that far behind.

voltz

^^^^
True on the speakers and you do want to make sure you do them justice

Polkie2009

I remember when Sumerian got his Halo amp in black, how gorgeous it was. I can't remember if it was a A21 or a A51, just seem to remember him saying it had plenty of power.

Mystery

Vandersteens are back on the long wall opposite to the stairs.
I think this is the best possible placement as both speakers have walls behind them.

Mystery

After more crawling the speaker around, I found where they sound better than other positions.
They sound good anywhere but it's not involving if it's not positioned right.
There is kind of disconnection from music if you are not in the sweet spot.
With this placement, it's like I'm in middle of all the music.
From the middle arch, 15.25" away and 12.5" to 12" away from the back wall with .5" toe in and 77" apart cabinet to cabinet.
Sounds great and images right in between as if sound is coming from the wall.



View from 2nd floor:

gp4jesus

Anyone chime in hear (here) Have you considered placing that lamp between your left speaker & TV or removing it altogether? Either would allow you to move the right speaker further to the right getting your LR & ears closer to an equal-lateral* triangle*.

In my audio circle(s) over the years that* was, and still is, "THE" placement*. I find you can be off by about 5%. That is, the speakers could be about 5% further from your ears than apart and still "work."

Merry Christmas & Cheers for a better New Year! Tony

[Deleted User]

Looks great to me and before XMas too! Nice.

Mystery

gp4jesus wrote: »

Anyone chime in hear (here) Have you considered placing that lamp between your left speaker & TV or removing it altogether? Either would allow you to move the right speaker further to the right getting your LR & ears closer to an equal-lateral* triangle*.

In my audio circle(s) over the years that* was, and still is, "THE" placement*. I find you can be off by about 5%. That is, the speakers could be about 5% further from your ears than apart and still "work."

Merry Christmas & Cheers for a better New Year! Tony

That lamp looks ugly in the middle but can be removed.
Moving the speaker towards right means I have to sit blocking the walkway and also the sweet spot moves further behind than my listening position.
Equi-lateral distance is not written in stone.
You can be farther away than the distance between the speakers.

rednedtugent wrote: »

Looks great to me and before XMas too! Nice.

Thanks.
I'd like to try these upstairs in guest room (12 x 12) to check if they sound better as placement would be easier but maybe too small for these plus no one to help me carry them upstairs.

Mystery

DSkip wrote: »

Oooo that guest room would be awful. Square rooms don't work.

I see but then I don't have to use 'Hall' mode.

gp4jesus

Mystery wrote: »

Moving the speaker towards right means I have to sit blocking the walkway...

Sorry. Missed that from the camera angle.

Mystery wrote: »

...the sweet spot moves further behind my listening position.

Wasn't aware you've nailed your sweet spot.

Mystery wrote: »

Equi-lateral distance is not written in stone.

I alluded to that

Mystery wrote: »

You can be farther away than the distance between the speakers.

Again, the camera angle & I said: 'the speakers could be about 5% further from your ears than apart and still "work."'

erniejade

I had vandersteen 3a about 5 years ago.n. maybe 4 years. Anyway they are picky on placement. Look at the manual also, it will tell you the exact hight the tweeters need to be and the angle. I got them close but for the bass to sound right, I kind lf did a backward sub crawl where I put the speaker in my listening spot, moved around the room close to sitting hight and put the speakers in the 2 spots where I thlight the bass sounded best. Then adjusted the tilt on the sound anchors. They are a laied back sounding speaker but, they do have a lot of detail. It just doesnt shove it down your throat. The bass was solid and deep after you pinpoint where the room plays nice.

I had an issue with mine where if I stood up, lots of bass but sit and it would disapear. For my room about 2.5 feet from the corner and 4 feet from the back wall. If your sitting 9 or 10 feet away, try them at 5 feet between them, then 5.5.

Mystery

Sad decision has been made...

Living room is not going to be 2-channel room so there will be smaller speakers or Boston A400 that can go flat against the wall with av or integrated receiver with remote and tucked away under sofa or something.

Reasons:
1. I never get to listen music in the living room properly due to TV/movie in the next family room and baby crawling around. So just background music there.
2. Don't want to waste 3A signatures for background music.
3. Friends were in house and their kids running around in the living room really made me uncomfortable around the audio gears so my 2-channel will move down to basement or upstairs.
4. There is no other room big enough for the 3A's and I'm not buying bigger house for these.

[Deleted User]

Gave it a good run...
...You seem to really like the B A400's anyway.
All is not lost!

vcwatkins

Sounds like that baby is part of the problem and not the solution. You need to get your priorities straight, man. hehe

I hear you on moving to other space. I find myself listening less in the den and more in the living room where no one else ventures and there are itty-bitty speakers.

afterburnt

Wow are those kick stands to keep them from blowing themselves over? SWEET!

zarrdoss

So I guess these will also be on the market soon as well? lol. And I thought I went through a bunch of speakers. After I made my room more acoustically neutral and took all the noise out of the loop I find that I don't go through speakers as fast.
Ugh, kids around speakers and audio gear, I don't allow kids in my house anymore because most parents these days just don't watch them or tell them no and they sure don't want anyone else to, it really pissed my brother off but of well. Our father sure never let us act like that in other peoples houses.
You might try them in a few other rooms before you let them go. Go get one of these http://www.harborfreight.com/bigfoot-hand-truck-97568.html and haul them upstairs by yorself, I had to get one for my SDA era, worked great.