whats next?
Comments
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it was proven a long time age you can have two different amps that measure the same and they still sound different.Amplifiers: Norma IPA 140, MasterSound Compact 845, Ayre v6xe, Consonance Cyber 800
Preamp: deHavilland Ultraverve 3
Dac: Sonnet Morpheus 2, Musical Paradise mp-d2 mkIII
Transport: Jay's Audio CDT2 mk2, Lumin U1 mini
Speakers: Rosso Fiorentino Volterra II
Speaker Cables: Crystal Clear Magnum Opus 2, Organic Audio Organic Reference 2
Interconnects: Crystal Clear Magnum Opus 2, Argento Organic Reference 2, Argento Organic 2
Power Cables: Argento Organic Reference, Synergistic Research Foundation 10 and 12 ga.
Digital cables: Crystal Clear Magnum Opus 2 bnc, Tellurium Q aes, Silnote Audio Poseidon Signature 2 bnc
Puritan PSM156 -
OP gets it, the other guy dont want to get it or is just a troll.
Right, after rereading the thread my comments were meant to be directed towards Jestered not the op sky- sorry for the confusion.
Yes this thread has the signature of troll all over it. I think our responses have been a waste, but only Jestered can decide if he wants to hear for himself the difference. If not then there is no point going any further.2-ch System: Parasound P/LD 2000 pre, Parasound HCA-1000 amp, Parasound T/DQ Tuner, Phase Technology PC-100 Tower speakers, Technics SL-1600 Turntable, Denon 2910 SACD/CD player, Peachtree DAC iT and X1asynchorus USB converter, HSU VTF-3 subwoofer. -
Getting the popcorn ready now.Main
Parasound P5
Parasound A21
CA music streamer
marantz 6005
Clear Day dbl.shotgun
Morrow Xlr
1.7 Maggies
Bedroom
adcom Gfp750
Adcom 555
Rotel 1072
CA tuner
LsiM703
Clear day dbl shotgun -
No you didn't you just quoted another, What you didn't show was the current output between the AVR and the AmpF1nut- You didn't answer anything. "The amp" is your answer. What about the amp? I've already shown it's putting out the same clean undistorted wattage using either. So what is it that's different? Never mind. I don't need an answer.
Amp 99% of the time will put out more current WITH those watts
correct you want to hear that your set up is the best....Well it is we all wish we had your gear:frown:Tom- I appreciate your responses. I didn't get the answer I was hoping, but at least you provided some good information without the need to feel like you had to get all worked up about it.I'll move on. It's a shame. I thought this Polk forum was a little different, but apparently not. The same "agree with the masses and don't question us or else" attitude that every other forum has.
It's a MUCH better forum than any other on the net it's too bad you are too blind and deaf to absorb some of the best minds on the planet.
just let me say this the power supply in the AVR was never meant to bank as much energy on reserve as an Amp. Most Amps have a good deal of headroom most AVR's do not. Notice your AVR has say 120wpc in 2 channel and 80 in 5..Well an amp will have 200wpc weather you drive 2 or 5 that is the power supply that F1 speaks of. The power supply in the AVR was NEVER designed to do 120X5 that is why it drops so much down to 80wpc.... -
No you didn't you just quoted another, What you didn't show was the current output between the AVR and the Amp
Amp 99% of the time will put out more current WITH those watts
correct you want to hear that your set up is the best....Well it is we all wish we had your gear:frown:
It's a MUCH better forum than any other on the net it's too bad you are too blind and deaf to absorb some of the best minds on the planet.
just let me say this the power supply in the AVR was never meant to bank as much energy on reserve as an Amp. Most Amps have a good deal of headroom most AVR's do not. Notice your AVR has say 120wpc in 2 channel and 80 in 5..Well an amp will have 200wpc weather you drive 2 or 5 that is the power supply that F1 speaks of. The power supply in the AVR was NEVER designed to do 120X5 that is why it drops so much down to 80wpc....
I think the whole WPC is a moot point no?Considering most people like myself only use 1 watt or so most of the time...But the current and having the ability to crank up your system without having to worry about distortion is a def advantage over any avr.As of now I'm def looking into an amp, but I don't expect to go with crazy wattage rather just some decent quality built amp like outlaw.
Edit-man we Canadians get shafted so much when it comes to buying technology, the pricing and choices is just so far off from our US counter parts.Anyone from Canada with some helpful buying advice on AMPS. -
Wow. This has actually become quite amusing! I'm not even interested in the AVR/AMP debate, which should have been a simple discussion, but I'll play along.No you didn't you just quoted another,
Not sure what you're referring to here. Are you talking about the bench test being for a VSX-52 and I have a VSX-53? If so, they're the same receiver with the same parts, but the VSX-52 had a few things stripped out of it. So the bench tests should be exactly the same between the two receivers. Mine is a higher end model, so we can add some performance to it if you'd prefer.What you didn't show was the current output between the AVR and the Amp
Amp 99% of the time will put out more current WITH those watts
I posted the link to the results so you could have checked to see if that was included. I didn't mention it because it makes absolutely no difference in the equipment I was referring to. My AVR and the Emotiva UPA-500 both produce 80 WPC, and it doesn't matter how much current it took to achieve that.
Current is measured in volts. 1 volt is the amount of current needed to push 1 amp through 1 ohm (resistance). 1 watt is the power that's created when pushing 1 amp through 1 ohm of resistance. That is what creates 1 watt. If you're telling me that a dedicated amp creates better sound quality because there is more "current", you're wrong. Keep in mind, current is the amount of force, or push, it takes to push amps through the amount of resistance in the line. So, if it's actually true that a dedicated amp is using more current, to produce the same wattage, that only means that it also has more resistance and needs more current to produce the same wattage, which I doubt is the case. And even so, it doesn't make any difference because the outcome is still the same wattage/power at the other end.
Your current comment would only make sense when talking about a more powerful amp over the AVR I'm using, and I've said more than once that both the amp that I was looking at, and the AVR that I have, both create the same watts, regardless of how much current it takes either to create that wattage.correct you want to hear that your set up is the best....Well it is we all wish we had your gear:frown:
I'm not even sure where that came from. My setup is clearly posted in my signature. It's a nice setup, but far from what a lot of people are rocking on here. My setup is for me and my family and I could care less if people think it's junk or anything else. I'm envious of a lot of the HT setups that a lot of people have here, but I'm happy with what I have. Your comment can't be backed by anything I've said and doesn't make any sense.It's a MUCH better forum than any other on the net it's too bad you are too blind and deaf to absorb some of the best minds on the planet.
Great! So I'll add blind and deaf to the growing list. Outside of this thread, I've thoroughly enjoyed this forum. There's a lot of knowledgeable people in this audio/video area. To say that they are some of the "best minds on the planet" is a far stretch. Knowledgeable in the field, sure, but best minds on the planet... No offense anyone.just let me say this the power supply in the AVR was never meant to bank as much energy on reserve as an Amp. Most Amps have a good deal of headroom most AVR's do not. Notice your AVR has say 120wpc in 2 channel and 80 in 5..Well an amp will have 200wpc weather you drive 2 or 5 that is the power supply that F1 speaks of. The power supply in the AVR was NEVER designed to do 120X5 that is why it drops so much down to 80wpc....
If you took the time to read what I have said from the beginning, you'd realize I was always talking about an 80WPC AVR and an 80WPC stand-alone amp. The fact that there's some in this thread that just now figured out that I'm not even the OP just goes to show how quick people are to jump in without actually reading what was said.Samsung 65" ES8000 LED
Pioneer Elite VSX-53
Polk RTiA5's - Front Towers
Polk CSiA6 - Center Channel
Polk RT15i's - Side Surrounds
Polk FXiA4's - Rear Surrounds
SVS PB-1000 - Subwoofer
URC MX5000 - Remote -
I'm out of this conversation. Good Lord, help this man. He has much to learn.....and I'm not talking about the OP.
Tom~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~ -
Wow. This has actually become quite amusing! I'm not even interested in the AVR/AMP debate, which should have been a simple discussion, but I'll play along.
Not sure what you're referring to here. Are you talking about the bench test being for a VSX-52 and I have a VSX-53? If so, they're the same receiver with the same parts, but the VSX-52 had a few things stripped out of it. So the bench tests should be exactly the same between the two receivers. Mine is a higher end model, so we can add some performance to it if you'd prefer.
I posted the link to the results so you could have checked to see if that was included. I didn't mention it because it makes absolutely no difference in the equipment I was referring to. My AVR and the Emotiva UPA-500 both produce 80 WPC, and it doesn't matter how much current it took to achieve that.
Current is measured in volts. 1 volt is the amount of current needed to push 1 amp through 1 ohm (resistance). 1 watt is the power that's created when pushing 1 amp through 1 ohm of resistance. That is what creates 1 watt. If you're telling me that a dedicated amp creates better sound quality because there is more "current", you're wrong. Keep in mind, current is the amount of force, or push, it takes to push amps through the amount of resistance in the line. So, if it's actually true that a dedicated amp is using more current, to produce the same wattage, that only means that it also has more resistance and needs more current to produce the same wattage, which I doubt is the case. And even so, it doesn't make any difference because the outcome is still the same wattage/power at the other end.
Your current comment would only make sense when talking about a more powerful amp over the AVR I'm using, and I've said more than once that both the amp that I was looking at, and the AVR that I have, both create the same watts, regardless of how much current it takes either to create that wattage.
I'm not even sure where that came from. My setup is clearly posted in my signature. It's a nice setup, but far from what a lot of people are rocking on here. My setup is for me and my family and I could care less if people think it's junk or anything else. I'm envious of a lot of the HT setups that a lot of people have here, but I'm happy with what I have. Your comment can't be backed by anything I've said and doesn't make any sense.
Great! So I'll add blind and deaf to the growing list. Outside of this thread, I've thoroughly enjoyed this forum. There's a lot of knowledgeable people in this audio/video area. To say that they are some of the "best minds on the planet" is a far stretch. Knowledgeable in the field, sure, but best minds on the planet... No offense anyone.
If you took the time to read what I have said from the beginning, you'd realize I was always talking about an 80WPC AVR and an 80WPC stand-alone amp. The fact that there's some in this thread that just now figured out that I'm not even the OP just goes to show how quick people are to jump in without actually reading what was said.
Very sound argument, not much to argue with from the logic point of view.All I can say is maybe you can try out a real amp, and then come back with your result?Although I myself have not done so, but it's hard to deny something every else seems to have experience as a placebo.Emo has a 30 day trial, lucky you are from the states and can test it out so why not give it a try?Would be more resourceful than trying to convince all these people who've actually done it.I can't lie I was and still am very skeptical but surely hundreds and thousands of people can't all be wrong? -
Where are you located skky?
You are welcome to drop by and hear the difference for yourself. I am experiencing it right now.
As for the new court jester's comments... there is nothing "sound" about them.The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
nooshinjohn wrote: »Where are you located skky?
You are welcome to drop by and hear the difference for yourself. I am experiencing it right now.
As for the new court jester's comments... there is noting "sound" about them.
Please enlighten me. I'm talking basic Ohm's Law. Not Ohm's Idea, or Santa, or unicorns.
I have always wanted to know simply how this is happening, not that it was not possible. Before getting a real answer that could be tested and proved, all of a sudden I've been jumped on, called names, and attacked. I'm game!
Please enlighten me how current, you know that Ohm's Law thing I explained doesn't apply to you. And if there's something outside of that, that can provide a real world difference watt-for-watt, please let me know. I'm still interested in a dedicated amp, but I prefer to learn then buy, not the other way around. As someone mentioned that I don't know what this hobby is about, well I think I know exactly what it's about. If I wanted to follow blindly I would simply call some guy I don't even know and let him determine what goes into my cabinet. Instead, I'd prefer to learn why I'm putting equipment in my cabinet and how and why. Isn't that what this hobby is all about?Samsung 65" ES8000 LED
Pioneer Elite VSX-53
Polk RTiA5's - Front Towers
Polk CSiA6 - Center Channel
Polk RT15i's - Side Surrounds
Polk FXiA4's - Rear Surrounds
SVS PB-1000 - Subwoofer
URC MX5000 - Remote -
PM sent with my ACTUAL phone number so I can explain things personally. Can't get any better than that. If you want to learn, I could even perhaps get one of the very best in the world to call and discuss it with you. You just need to actually want to learn.The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
Why not explain it where others that have the same question can get that information. I don't need you to explain to me how "current", which is what my response was about, can change the characteristics of a speaker, even at the same wattage. Current changes the speed of flow of electrons. It doesn't add anything to what's going out. The final power of what's received is the same.
And if this is some sort of intimidation attempt, I'm sorry, but it's not going to work.
Seriously????
It has been explained ten ways to Sunday for you. It must be "intimidating to actually hear an explanation that will answer all your questions rather than to simply hide behind a keyboard and remain ignorant.
Good day sir, I am done here.The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
Your 1 watt would be great with a loudspeaker at 104dB sensitivity.
http://www.chuckhawks.com/speaker_spl_amp_power.htmSalk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 * -
nooshinjohn wrote: »Seriously????
It has been explained ten ways to Sunday for you. It must be "intimidating to actually hear an explanation that will answer all your questions rather than to simply hide behind a keyboard and remain ignorant.
Good day sir, I am done here.
What would you have said? Why would I need to talk to you on the phone after your condescending interactions through this thread? I appreciate the offer, but had no idea what your true intentions were in the PM. And my response to that being publicized doesn't bother me at all. I said what I said and I'll stand behind it.
If there was any real intention of help in your PM, I apologize, and can do that publicly without needing someone to put it out there without my knowing, which again I could care less about. The bottom line is that you're one of the people that have hated on me, so why would I want to chat it up with you? Especially without knowing what the real intent behind it was?Samsung 65" ES8000 LED
Pioneer Elite VSX-53
Polk RTiA5's - Front Towers
Polk CSiA6 - Center Channel
Polk RT15i's - Side Surrounds
Polk FXiA4's - Rear Surrounds
SVS PB-1000 - Subwoofer
URC MX5000 - Remote -
SCompRacer wrote: »Your 1 watt would be great with a loudspeaker at 104dB sensitivity.
http://www.chuckhawks.com/speaker_spl_amp_power.htm
Another one that apparently has no clue what the actual question was and has not taken the time to actually read.Samsung 65" ES8000 LED
Pioneer Elite VSX-53
Polk RTiA5's - Front Towers
Polk CSiA6 - Center Channel
Polk RT15i's - Side Surrounds
Polk FXiA4's - Rear Surrounds
SVS PB-1000 - Subwoofer
URC MX5000 - Remote -
Actually, I was the only one in this thread you agreed with.What would you have said? Why would I need to talk to you on the phone after your condescending interactions through this thread? I appreciate the offer, but had no idea what your true intentions were in the PM. And my response to that being publicized doesn't bother me at all. I said what I said and I'll stand behind it.
If there was any real intention of help in your PM, I apologize, and can do that publicly without needing someone to put it out there without my knowing, which again I could care less about. The bottom line is that you're one of the people that have hated on me, so why would I want to chat it up with you? Especially without knowing what the real intent behind it was?The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
nooshinjohn- I've also added "ignorant" to the list.Samsung 65" ES8000 LED
Pioneer Elite VSX-53
Polk RTiA5's - Front Towers
Polk CSiA6 - Center Channel
Polk RT15i's - Side Surrounds
Polk FXiA4's - Rear Surrounds
SVS PB-1000 - Subwoofer
URC MX5000 - Remote -
Another one that apparently has no clue what the actual question was and has not taken the time to actually read.
Pay attention, the thread has morphed beyond that. You contributed to that. You are more on than off.
Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 * -
That's actually true. And if the rest of the haters in this thread would have actually read and understood the equipment I was asking about, they probably would have agreed as well. Unfortunately, there's not enough listening and too much crap talk here.Samsung 65" ES8000 LED
Pioneer Elite VSX-53
Polk RTiA5's - Front Towers
Polk CSiA6 - Center Channel
Polk RT15i's - Side Surrounds
Polk FXiA4's - Rear Surrounds
SVS PB-1000 - Subwoofer
URC MX5000 - Remote -
SCompRacer wrote: »Pay attention, the thread has morphed beyond that. You contributed to that. You are more on than off.
I'm only one when the "masses" are on. What does that tell you?Samsung 65" ES8000 LED
Pioneer Elite VSX-53
Polk RTiA5's - Front Towers
Polk CSiA6 - Center Channel
Polk RT15i's - Side Surrounds
Polk FXiA4's - Rear Surrounds
SVS PB-1000 - Subwoofer
URC MX5000 - Remote -
Jestered, many things go down on this forum, but grudges are generally not held. I've had intense bickering a with quite a few members now, and all but one had the ability to see through the mess and put those interchanges aside and get to the fact of the matter. We try to help people here, but inexcusable ignorance is one that hits a nerve. Experience trumps those notions in your head, you've just got to be willing to lift the veil.
If John had sent me his number, I'd be on the phone wi him now. He is one of those guys whose opinion I respect so much that I want to do nothing but learn from their experiences.
DSkip- I'm pretty much the same. And your comment would have been a perfect start to that until this:
but inexcusable ignorance is one that hits a nerve
You're either horrible at what you were trying to accomplish, or you really good at it.Samsung 65" ES8000 LED
Pioneer Elite VSX-53
Polk RTiA5's - Front Towers
Polk CSiA6 - Center Channel
Polk RT15i's - Side Surrounds
Polk FXiA4's - Rear Surrounds
SVS PB-1000 - Subwoofer
URC MX5000 - Remote -
Hrm Pioneer rates the VSX-53 as 110wpc into 8 ohms x 7 according to its user manual...not 80 like its owner claims...interesting, but how would it perform while powering 7 seperate speaker is a whole 'nother question.
Seriously! Please figure this out. The 110WPC is two channels driven. The 80 watts is the actual WPC when driving 7 channels. Read up!Samsung 65" ES8000 LED
Pioneer Elite VSX-53
Polk RTiA5's - Front Towers
Polk CSiA6 - Center Channel
Polk RT15i's - Side Surrounds
Polk FXiA4's - Rear Surrounds
SVS PB-1000 - Subwoofer
URC MX5000 - Remote -
John was willing to take time out of his night and try to put the pieces together for you. You not willing to accept that offer is inexcusable, therefore your ignorance is inexcusable. Again, nothing against you, but the truth nonetheless.
If John had been washing my hair and telling me stories from the past, the response would have been different. But that wasn't the case. Right?Samsung 65" ES8000 LED
Pioneer Elite VSX-53
Polk RTiA5's - Front Towers
Polk CSiA6 - Center Channel
Polk RT15i's - Side Surrounds
Polk FXiA4's - Rear Surrounds
SVS PB-1000 - Subwoofer
URC MX5000 - Remote -
Is this really happening?!?!?!?!?Samsung 65" ES8000 LED
Pioneer Elite VSX-53
Polk RTiA5's - Front Towers
Polk CSiA6 - Center Channel
Polk RT15i's - Side Surrounds
Polk FXiA4's - Rear Surrounds
SVS PB-1000 - Subwoofer
URC MX5000 - Remote -
Let me break this down one last time...
The power supply in your Pioneer is SMALLER than the power supply of a stand-alone amplifier, even though it supports the wattage output of 80 watts you have been talking about. Further, the receiver does not have the ability to STORE that energy in either a large number of or into a large storage output capacitor.
A power amp may be fed by the power supply, but the actual power is within the output caps. the power supply feeds the caps, which in turn, feeds the speakers. The larger the supply of power, the faster the caps can respond to demand. Can small caps, and small power supply equals the same watt numbers... yes, you would be correct to assume that, BUT(and it is a HUGE BUT!) the small power supply runs out of gas quickly and cannot fill the tank(caps) fast enough to meet the demands of the speakers. It is here that your 80 watts of receiver power smack into the wall and kill your speakers through something called "clipping". A more robust 80 wpc amp however will have the storage capacity to meet the demand and deliver what your speakers are asking for.
The other thing is transient response. This is when the speakers ask for power, how fast does the amplifier provide it, and recover for the next demand? An amp with the larger power supply and capacitance, will be faster every time, and audibly so. Even if all we are talking about is just a few milliseconds, and yes.. even at low volumes.The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
If John had been washing my hair and telling me stories from the past, the response would have been different. But that wasn't the case. Right?
come on man... do you really think I would offer to help you understand if my real goal was to insult you over the phone?
I am trying to help you here, as have others and all you seem to want to do is insult anyone that tries.The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
nooshinjohn wrote: »Let me break this down one last time...
The power supply in your Pioneer is SMALLER than the power supply of a stand-alone amplifier, even though it supports the wattage output of 80 watts you have been talking about. Further, the receiver does not have the ability to STORE that energy in either a large number of or into a large storage output capacitor.
A power amp may be fed by the power supply, but the actual power is within the output caps. the power supply feeds the caps, which in turn, feeds the speakers. The larger the supply of power, the faster the caps can respond to demand. Can small caps, and small power supply equals the same watt numbers... yes, you would be correct to assume that, BUT(and it is a HUGE BUT!) the small power supply runs out of gas quickly and cannot fill the tank(caps) fast enough to meet the demands of the speakers. It is here that your 80 watts of receiver power smack into the wall and kill your speakers through something called "clipping". A more robust 80 wpc amp however will have the storage capacity to meet the demand and deliver what your speakers are asking for.
The other thing is transient response. This is when the speakers ask for power, how fast does the amplifier provide it, and recover for the next demand? An amp with the larger power supply and capacitance, will be faster every time, and audibly so. Even if all we are talking about is just a few milliseconds, and yes.. even at low volumes.
This is so well written and exactly what a lot of the number crunchers don't understand. Posts like this are why I still visit this forum daily.Display: LG 47" LCD | AVR: Marantz SR5005 | BD: Panasonic BDT-210 | CD/SACD: Oppo 980 |
Amps: Rotel RB-990bx | Marantz MA-500 | Speakers: Totem Mite : Totem Mite-C : RC60i | Sub: HSU VTF-2 MKIV
HK AVR635 | Polk R30 | Sony DVD/SACD Player -
nooshinjohn wrote: »Let me break this down one last time...
The power supply in your Pioneer is SMALLER than the power supply of a stand-alone amplifier, even though it supports the wattage output of 80 watts you have been talking about. Further, the receiver does not have the ability to STORE that energy in either a large number of or into a large storage output capacitor.
A power amp may be fed by the power supply, but the actual power is within the output caps. the power supply feeds the caps, which in turn, feeds the speakers. The larger the supply of power, the faster the caps can respond to demand. Can small caps, and small power supply equals the same watt numbers... yes, you would be correct to assume that, BUT(and it is a HUGE BUT!) the small power supply runs out of gas quickly and cannot fill the tank(caps) fast enough to meet the demands of the speakers. It is here that your 80 watts of receiver power smack into the wall and kill your speakers through something called "clipping". A more robust 80 wpc amp however will have the storage capacity to meet the demand and deliver what your speakers are asking for.
The other thing is transient response. This is when the speakers ask for power, how fast does the amplifier provide it, and recover for the next demand? An amp with the larger power supply and capacitance, will be faster every time, and audibly so. Even if all we are talking about is just a few milliseconds, and yes.. even at low volumes.
Now this would have been nice to have read from the very beginning. Instead, a lot of name calling ensued and a lot of unnecessary insults as well.
I've been here before, just asking for some information that I could digest. I never got rude or attacking but I sure got attacked from my questioning. I didn't get called a troll but several other insults came my way......over a stupid speaker cable.
Anyway, there's tact, and there's tactless. I saw very little tact compared to the tactless in this thread. But, I can see where it may be difficult to give an answer, then if it's not received the way it's hoped to, then demeaning behavior soon follows, what a shame.Source: BRP Panasonic UB9000, CDP Emotiva ERC3 - Display: LG OLED EVO 83 C3 - Pre/Pro: Marantz 8802A - Amplification: Emotiva XPA-DR3, XPA-2 x 2, XPA-6, Speakers, Mains/2ch-Focal Kanta No2's, C-LSiM706, S-702F/X, RS-RTiA9's, WS-RTiA9's, FH-RTiA3's, Subs - Epik Empire x 2
Cables: AudioQuest McKenzie XLR's/CDP/Amp, Carbon 48/BRP, Forest 48/Display, 2 channel speaker cable: Furutech FS Alpha 36 12AWG PCOCC Single Crystal (Douglas Connection)
EXPERIENCE: next to nothing, but I sure enjoy audio and video MY OPINION OF THIS HOBBY: I may not be a smart man, but I know what quicksand is.
When I was young, I was Superman but now that old age has gotten the best of me I'm only Batman -
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Sure does a lot of things.Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes
Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
Three 20 amp circuits.
This discussion has been closed.