whats next?
Comments
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Jestered, it's clear that you don't understand much about audio gear. Until you get your head out of the specs pages and get some real world experience I'm not sure you will ever get beyond the stage you are at now. I took the time to read some of your posts and the responses at another forum you are on. Being told that all SS amps sound the same, that your AVR is a s good as it gets and that using test instruments is better than the ear are not doing you any favors.
BTW, since you are stuck of specs allow me to correct one. You're A5's have a -3dB of 40Hz and drop like a lead weight, they are not solid to 30Hz.
I wish you luck.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
BTW, since you are stuck of specs allow me to correct one. You're A5's have a -3dB of 40Hz and drop like a lead weight, they are not solid to 30Hz.
I wish you luck.
You're correcting what here? I've never mentioned that my speakers are exceptional. I've never said my crappy speakers, and the specs of those speakers are great, so what's your point? What exactly are you correcting?
Also, if you want to stalk me on other forums, go ahead and post the link. I'm not hiding from anything. I have the same screen name "Jestered", on AVS as I do here. What's your point?Samsung 65" ES8000 LED
Pioneer Elite VSX-53
Polk RTiA5's - Front Towers
Polk CSiA6 - Center Channel
Polk RT15i's - Side Surrounds
Polk FXiA4's - Rear Surrounds
SVS PB-1000 - Subwoofer
URC MX5000 - Remote -
You were told by another that your speakers were solid to 30Hz and since you seem to swallow all that is told to you on that other forum, I thought it best to set the record straight.I've never mentioned my crappy speakers
What an odd thing to say considering that you posted this, " So, I keep reading that this setup will come alive (I think it kicks @ss as it is)" just the other day.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
What's your point?
Well, I've made few points, but you don't seem capable of comprehending any of them. So, for this moment in time let's say that's my point.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Another one that doesn't read anything before speaking.Samsung 65" ES8000 LED
Pioneer Elite VSX-53
Polk RTiA5's - Front Towers
Polk CSiA6 - Center Channel
Polk RT15i's - Side Surrounds
Polk FXiA4's - Rear Surrounds
SVS PB-1000 - Subwoofer
URC MX5000 - Remote -
Well, I've made few points, but you don't seem capable of comprehending any of them. So, for this moment in time let's say that's my point.
Which is no point at all? Did I ever bring up anything that was talked about in another forum? Nope. So why are you bringing it up? I never mentioned it in defense of any FACTS that I've spoken, so I'm not sure why you're bringing it up. What exactly is your point in bringing it up at all?Samsung 65" ES8000 LED
Pioneer Elite VSX-53
Polk RTiA5's - Front Towers
Polk CSiA6 - Center Channel
Polk RT15i's - Side Surrounds
Polk FXiA4's - Rear Surrounds
SVS PB-1000 - Subwoofer
URC MX5000 - Remote -
My reading comprehension is beyond reproach, thank you very much.
Now, have you even tried to understand that the power supply is key to the reason a power amp is superior to an AVR or are you going to keep ignoring the answer to your question?Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
What exactly is your point in bringing it up at all?
Which point would that be, I've made a number of them.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
My reading comprehension is beyond reproach, thank you very much.
Now, have you even tried to understand that the power supply is key to the reason a power amp is superior to an AVR or are you going to keep ignoring the answer to your question?
Why don't you explain it to me? That's what I've been asking for all this time.Samsung 65" ES8000 LED
Pioneer Elite VSX-53
Polk RTiA5's - Front Towers
Polk CSiA6 - Center Channel
Polk RT15i's - Side Surrounds
Polk FXiA4's - Rear Surrounds
SVS PB-1000 - Subwoofer
URC MX5000 - Remote -
Let's talk about why you said your speakers are crappy when you just said the other day that your setup kicks a$$ as is. Do you suffer some sort of mental issue or do you just have a problem remembering what you said?Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Why don't you explain it to me? That's what I've been asking for all this time.
A number of folks have explained it in some detail already.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Let's talk about why you said your speakers are crappy when you just said the other day that your setup kicks a$$ as is. Do you suffer some sort of mental issue or do you just have a problem remembering what you said?
Are you serious?!?!?! Why are you trying to avoid the question? Why are you trying to talk about what I think of my speakers? It's obvious that when I talked about my speakers that I was referring to you trying to talk them down. I wouldn't have them if I thought they were crap. Either way, I could care less what you think of my equipment. I made the mistake thinking that you might be able to enlighten me here, but I was very wrong.Samsung 65" ES8000 LED
Pioneer Elite VSX-53
Polk RTiA5's - Front Towers
Polk CSiA6 - Center Channel
Polk RT15i's - Side Surrounds
Polk FXiA4's - Rear Surrounds
SVS PB-1000 - Subwoofer
URC MX5000 - Remote -
WTH are you going on about? I wasn't talking down your speakers, I think they are fine HT speakers. I was simply providing you with their true capability.
I've already enlightened you, a long time ago. It's the power supply, it's the power supply, it's the power supply....get it yet!?!Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
So, now you edit your post to say, "I've never mentioned that my speakers are exceptional." Too funny!Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Waiiiiiiiiit. I think you are saying it's the power supply quality difference (rectifiers, capacitors, transformers, etc, etc, etc) between the AVR and the amp. Is that right Jesse? :razz:
Taken from a recent Audioholics reply regarding "Club Polk" and Polk speakers:
"I'm yet to hear a Polk speaker that merits more than a sentence and 60 seconds discussion."![:\](https://forum.polkaudio.com/resources/emoji/confused.png ":\")
My response is: If you need 60 seconds to respond in one sentence, you probably should't be evaluating Polk speakers.....
"Green leaves reveal the heart spoken Khatru"- Jon Anderson
"Have A Little Faith! And Everything You'll Face, Will Jump From Out Right On Into Place! Yeah! Take A Little Time! And Everything You'll Find, Will Move From Gloom Right On Into Shine!"- Arthur Lee -
Well, the sun will be up soon, so it's time for me to crawl into the coffin. We can continue tomorrow, if you like.
Good night, good luck, good life.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
'Night Jesse.
Taken from a recent Audioholics reply regarding "Club Polk" and Polk speakers:
"I'm yet to hear a Polk speaker that merits more than a sentence and 60 seconds discussion."
My response is: If you need 60 seconds to respond in one sentence, you probably should't be evaluating Polk speakers.....
"Green leaves reveal the heart spoken Khatru"- Jon Anderson
"Have A Little Faith! And Everything You'll Face, Will Jump From Out Right On Into Place! Yeah! Take A Little Time! And Everything You'll Find, Will Move From Gloom Right On Into Shine!"- Arthur Lee -
Waiiiiiiiiit. I think you are saying it's the power supply quality difference (rectifiers, capacitors, transformers, etc, etc, etc) between the AVR and the amp. Is that right Jesse? :razz:
And here's another one that has nothing to add.Samsung 65" ES8000 LED
Pioneer Elite VSX-53
Polk RTiA5's - Front Towers
Polk CSiA6 - Center Channel
Polk RT15i's - Side Surrounds
Polk FXiA4's - Rear Surrounds
SVS PB-1000 - Subwoofer
URC MX5000 - Remote -
Oh, I missed your post Greg. Yes, that would be it.
Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Man, missed all the entertainment.......shucks. Maybe Mr. BBL can throw in his bunny pic to soften up the court JesterHT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
Looks like we're getting a third, fourth, and fifth serving of Ravioli!
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...As someone mentioned that I don't know what this hobby is about, well I think I know exactly what it's about. If I wanted to follow blindly I would simply call some guy I don't even know and let him determine what goes into my cabinet. Instead, I'd prefer to learn why I'm putting equipment in my cabinet and how and why. Isn't that what this hobby is all about?
Nope. This hobby is about trying stuff out on your own and letting your EARS decide. This hobby is about LISTENING to equipment, not reading about equipment. Granted, we all read about equipment to help narrow the choices, but in the end, it's only what your own ears say that matters.
Until you've put a few different amps in your system and listened to them, you won't know the difference. Period.
Based on your responses in this thread, I'm assuming that you're going to take the easy way out and not try it. That's too bad, and if that is the case, then you truly do not know what this hobby is about.
Cheers.2-Channel: PC > Schiit Eitr > Audio Research DAC-8 > Audio Research LS-26 > Pass Labs X-250.5 > Magnepan 3.7's
Living Room: PC > Marantz AV-7703 > Emotiva XPA-5 > Sonus Faber Liuto Towers, Sonus Faber Liuto Center, Sonus Faber Liuto Bookshelves > Dual SVS PC12-Pluses
Office: Phone/Tablet > AudioEngine B1 > McIntosh D100 > Bryston 4B-ST > Polk Audio LSiM-703's -
What's up Jestered... Care to respond to my explanation I gave on the previous page? I don't know how I could break things down even more than I did, but there's your answer, and it seems you missed it.The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
Looks like we're getting a third, fourth, and fifth serving of Ravioli!
Yeah, when the weather gets cold, they come out in flocks on the internet.HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
nooshinjohn wrote: »Let me break this down one last time...
The power supply in your Pioneer is SMALLER than the power supply of a stand-alone amplifier, even though it supports the wattage output of 80 watts you have been talking about. Further, the receiver does not have the ability to STORE that energy in either a large number of or into a large storage output capacitor.
A power amp may be fed by the power supply, but the actual power is within the output caps. the power supply feeds the caps, which in turn, feeds the speakers. The larger the supply of power, the faster the caps can respond to demand. Can small caps, and small power supply equals the same watt numbers... yes, you would be correct to assume that, BUT(and it is a HUGE BUT!) the small power supply runs out of gas quickly and cannot fill the tank(caps) fast enough to meet the demands of the speakers. It is here that your 80 watts of receiver power smack into the wall and kill your speakers through something called "clipping". A more robust 80 wpc amp however will have the storage capacity to meet the demand and deliver what your speakers are asking for.
The other thing is transient response. This is when the speakers ask for power, how fast does the amplifier provide it, and recover for the next demand? An amp with the larger power supply and capacitance, will be faster every time, and audibly so. Even if all we are talking about is just a few milliseconds, and yes.. even at low volumes.
Really good, concise explanation!
Years ago when I first got into this hobby I discovered this when my amp of choice was Marantz. Started out with integrateds: 1030 rated at 15 wpc, then went up to a 1060 30 wpc, then to a 1070 35 wpc, and then the big jump to a 3200 pre and 240 power amp (120 wpc).
Each step up provided clearer better sound, even at lower volume levels. And of course I could play louder with better clarity. Never quite understood why at the time, but the effect was easy to hear, which was why I kept swapping equipment."Science is suppose to explain observations not dismiss them as impossible" - Norm on AA; 2.3TL's w/sonicaps/mills/jantzen inductors, Gimpod's boards, Lg Solen SDA inductors, RD-0198's, MW's dynamatted, Armaflex speaker gaskets, H-nuts, brass spikes, Cardas CCGR BP's, upgraded IC Cable, Black Hole Damping Sheet strips, interior of cabinets sealed with Loctite Power Grab, AI-1 interface with 1000VA A-L transformer -
nooshinjohn wrote: »What's up Jestered... Care to respond to my explanation I gave on the previous page? I don't know how I could break things down even more than I did, but there's your answer, and it seems you missed it.
Hey. I was having too much fun, but needed to get to bed, so...
Your explanation was great, and finally has really peaked my interest. What people here keep failing to comprehend is that I was never trying to talk myself out of an amp. I was trying to talk myself into it. Anyway, I appreciate you taking the time to put that out there, not only for me, but for anyone else that has the same question.Samsung 65" ES8000 LED
Pioneer Elite VSX-53
Polk RTiA5's - Front Towers
Polk CSiA6 - Center Channel
Polk RT15i's - Side Surrounds
Polk FXiA4's - Rear Surrounds
SVS PB-1000 - Subwoofer
URC MX5000 - Remote -
nooshinjohn wrote: »Let me break this down one last time...
The power supply in your Pioneer is SMALLER than the power supply of a stand-alone amplifier, even though it supports the wattage output of 80 watts you have been talking about. Further, the receiver does not have the ability to STORE that energy in either a large number of or into a large storage output capacitor.
A power amp may be fed by the power supply, but the actual power is within the output caps. the power supply feeds the caps, which in turn, feeds the speakers. The larger the supply of power, the faster the caps can respond to demand. Can small caps, and small power supply equals the same watt numbers... yes, you would be correct to assume that, BUT(and it is a HUGE BUT!) the small power supply runs out of gas quickly and cannot fill the tank(caps) fast enough to meet the demands of the speakers. It is here that your 80 watts of receiver power smack into the wall and kill your speakers through something called "clipping". A more robust 80 wpc amp however will have the storage capacity to meet the demand and deliver what your speakers are asking for.
The other thing is transient response. This is when the speakers ask for power, how fast does the amplifier provide it, and recover for the next demand? An amp with the larger power supply and capacitance, will be faster every time, and audibly so. Even if all we are talking about is just a few milliseconds, and yes.. even at low volumes.Hey. I was having too much fun, but needed to get to bed, so...
Your explanation was great, and finally has really peaked my interest. What people here keep failing to comprehend is that I was never trying to talk myself out of an amp. I was trying to talk myself into it. Anyway, I appreciate you taking the time to put that out there, not only for me, but for anyone else that has the same question.pitgogg2 wrote:just let me say this the power supply in the AVR was never meant to bank as much energy on reserve as an Amp. Most Amps have a good deal of headroom most AVR's do not. Notice your AVR has say 120wpc in 2 channel and 80 in 5..Well an amp will have 200wpc weather you drive 2 or 5 that is the power supply that F1 speaks of. The power supply in the AVR was NEVER designed to do 120X5 that is why it drops so much down to 80wpc....
Mine was not as eloquent as Johns but it was right up there with it.... -
Hey. I was having too much fun, but needed to get to bed, so...
Your explanation was great, and finally has really peaked my interest. What people here keep failing to comprehend is that I was never trying to talk myself out of an amp. I was trying to talk myself into it. Anyway, I appreciate you taking the time to put that out there, not only for me, but for anyone else that has the same question.
There is much more to it than I explained in that post. Things like the type of winding used, and the materials it is constructed from... the list is endless actually. I would suggest getting something from Parasound to start off with, and going used over new because you will find more choices at a lower cost than going new.The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
nooshinjohn wrote: »There is much more to it than I explained in that post. Things like the type of winding used, and the materials it is constructed from... the list is endless actually. I would suggest getting something from Parasound to start off with, and going used over new because you will find more choices at a lower cost than going new.
Going used may or may not be my choice. I've been looking at used amps for about a month now, but it seems people are wanting the same for their used amp that I could get it on Amazon for. Now that I have a better understanding outside of simple Ohm's Law, which some people still don't get, then that also allows me to better know what to look for in an amp.Samsung 65" ES8000 LED
Pioneer Elite VSX-53
Polk RTiA5's - Front Towers
Polk CSiA6 - Center Channel
Polk RT15i's - Side Surrounds
Polk FXiA4's - Rear Surrounds
SVS PB-1000 - Subwoofer
URC MX5000 - Remote -
Hey. I was having too much fun, but needed to get to bed, so...
That makes you more of a troll than ignorant.
Many examples, explanations and links have been provided for you to increase your understanding of what goes on, yet you disregard them by saying no one reads or answers your question. You think 1 watt is needed to maintain a specific dB level. You probably think impedance remains at 8 ohms for your speakers. What do you think is needed to push through resistance?
Here is another link for you to disregard.
http://www.crownaudio.com/how_much_power.htm
I'm thinking you are not that stupid, you are here just to cause problems.Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *
This discussion has been closed.