How does SDA CRS compare with 2B and other SDA's in general?
Comments
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I was just kidding about the CRS+ with 10B components. I have the drivers in the cabinets for storage but they have never been hooked up. However, the CRS+ components in the 10B cabinets sound great. I prefer them over the CRS+ speakers.
I'm not the only one who has done this. Another member here recently sent me a PM saying he had done the same thing and liked them. He said they were very similar to the pair of SDA2s that he owns. He said he didn't want to mention it here because he didn't want to catch hell from the purist here.
What is amazing to me that someone can write off this setup as "just silliness and accomplishes nothing" when they have never heard it. And then someone can say that they are 100% on target. Don't knock it until you try it.- SDA 2BTL · Sonicaps · Mills resistors · RDO-198s · New gaskets · H-nuts · Erse inductors · BH5 · Dynamat
- Crossover upgrades by westmassguy
- Marantz 1504 AVR (front speaker pre-outs to Adcom 555)
- Adcom GFA-555 amp · Upgrades & speaker protection added by OldmanSRS
- Pioneer DV-610AV DVD/CD player
- SDA CRS+ · Hidden away in the closet
- SDA 2BTL · Sonicaps · Mills resistors · RDO-198s · New gaskets · H-nuts · Erse inductors · BH5 · Dynamat
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I wish you had your 10Bs as well. I think you would give an honest assessment of what you thought of how they sound.I agree as well, but with that said he is having fun and they are his speakers to do as he wishes, and in the end they are just speakers.
For the record I would like to her the CRS+/10B's and if I still had my 10's I would try it just for the hell of it..- SDA 2BTL · Sonicaps · Mills resistors · RDO-198s · New gaskets · H-nuts · Erse inductors · BH5 · Dynamat
- Crossover upgrades by westmassguy
- Marantz 1504 AVR (front speaker pre-outs to Adcom 555)
- Adcom GFA-555 amp · Upgrades & speaker protection added by OldmanSRS
- Pioneer DV-610AV DVD/CD player
- SDA CRS+ · Hidden away in the closet
- SDA 2BTL · Sonicaps · Mills resistors · RDO-198s · New gaskets · H-nuts · Erse inductors · BH5 · Dynamat
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inspiredsports wrote: »I guess, but just because I noticed my fist would fit in a blender, I don't believe I would stick it in there
LOL!! Thanks Greg I needed that!! -
The veneer is peeling off mostly on the rounded corners and little bit along the side.
That's not veneer, it's vinyl laminate and as such does not lend itself to repair very well.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
I was just kidding about the CRS+ with 10B components. I have the drivers in the cabinets for storage but they have never been hooked up. However, the CRS+ components in the 10B cabinets sound great. I prefer them over the CRS+ speakers.
I'm not the only one who has done this. Another member here recently sent me a PM saying he had done the same thing and liked them. He said they were very similar to the pair of SDA2s that he owns. He said he didn't want to mention it here because he didn't want to catch hell from the purist here.
What is amazing to me that someone can write off this setup as "just silliness and accomplishes nothing" when they have never heard it. And then someone can say that they are 100% on target. Don't knock it until you try it.
The problem as I see it is that the crossovers, drivers and PR in the CRS+ were spec'd for that cabinet volume. Putting those components in a larger cabinet will change the carefully designed and tested performance characteristics.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Quick question.
Sda menu says the receiver must have a common ground. How do I know my receiver has common ground?
Thanks
Klipsch RB81, KG3.5, B&W DM602.5, Polk.
Subwoofers: Klipsch RW10, Triad ProSub Bronze. -
I don't know of any receiver that isn't common ground.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Me Neither F1.
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F1, when I first got the idea of swapping the CRS+ components into the 10B cabinets, I came to the same conclusion you did, that the CRS+ components were designed for a specific volume cabinet. However, after further investigation I found that was not the case.The problem as I see it is that the crossovers, drivers and PR in the CRS+ were spec'd for that cabinet volume. Putting those components in a larger cabinet will change the carefully designed and tested performance characteristics.
The first thing I wanted to know was if the CRS+ crossovers were designed for a specific cabinet volume or MW spacing. I quickly found the answer to be no on both counts. The CRS+ crossovers are the same crossovers that are used in the 1987 SDA 2B pin/blade speakers. The SDA 2B that has a larger cabinet volume, (even larger than the 10B) and have a different MW spacing, (which happens to be the same spacing as the 10B). The crossover schematic is even has "SDS 2B/CRS+" marked right on it. They were defiantly not made for a specific cabinet volume or driver spacing.
The next thing I needed to know was if the MW 6511 dimensional driver was made specifically for the CRS+ cabinet volume. Again I found the answer to be no. The MW 6511 was also used in the 1987 SDA 2B speakers which have a different cabinet volume and driver spacing than the CRS+.
To save some extra work, I didn't change the 10B's MW 6503 stereo drivers that are original to the 10B cabinets. They are the same drivers that were used in the 1987 SDA 2B speakers so they are not unique to a specific cabinet volume either. If I had decided to use the MW 6510 stereo drivers from the CRS+ speakers there would have been no problem concerning cabinet volume as they were also used in the SDA 1C speakers. As everyone knows the 1C had a much larger cabinet volume. So again, the 6510s are not designed for a specific cabinet volume.
I didn't change the PRs that were in the 10Bs so that eliminates any problem with cabinet volume. I do realize that the PRs have characteristics, weighting being one of them, that are designed specifically for a given cabinet volume. That is the reason (besides being extra work) that I didn't use the CRS+ PRs. The CRS+ PRs are different and have different part numbers. I would expect them to be tuned specifically for the CRS+ cabinets. I would not recommend using them in the 10B cabinets.
I want everyone to know that I'm not writing all this to be argumentative. To the contrary, I'm simply wanting to point out that the idea of swapping the CRS+ parts into the 10B cabinets is not as off the wall as it appears on the surface. I did a as much research as I could before just throwing a bunch of parts together. I admit that I'm not an electrical engineer or an expert on audio speakers so there may be some aspects of swapping the CRS+ components into the 10B cabinets that I'm overlooking. All I know for sure is that end the result of swapping the parts is very pleasing to my ears. I prefer the sound of the CRS+10Bs over the sound of the stock CRS+. I think that saying this swap is "just silliness and accomplishes nothing" without even trying it is out of line.- SDA 2BTL · Sonicaps · Mills resistors · RDO-198s · New gaskets · H-nuts · Erse inductors · BH5 · Dynamat
- Crossover upgrades by westmassguy
- Marantz 1504 AVR (front speaker pre-outs to Adcom 555)
- Adcom GFA-555 amp · Upgrades & speaker protection added by OldmanSRS
- Pioneer DV-610AV DVD/CD player
- SDA CRS+ · Hidden away in the closet
- SDA 2BTL · Sonicaps · Mills resistors · RDO-198s · New gaskets · H-nuts · Erse inductors · BH5 · Dynamat
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We need to hook up sometime soon!!! Have you come over and get your ears on my 1.2tl's..
I can also bring over my fully modded CRS+'s and put them side by side to your stock CRS+'s..
and...toolfan lifts the lid for our hapless newbie!:biggrin: -
I don't know of any receiver that isn't common ground.
Thanks for comments.Me Neither F1.
May be some old amplifiers used to have separate grounds...
The manual mentions using AI-1 amplifier interface for those kind of amplifiers.
It's working with my HT receiver so it should have common ground.
Klipsch RB81, KG3.5, B&W DM602.5, Polk.
Subwoofers: Klipsch RW10, Triad ProSub Bronze. -
TennMan, you made some good points.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Thanks for comments.
May be some old amplifiers used to have separate grounds...
The manual mentions using AI-1 amplifier interface for those kind of amplifiers.
It's working with my HT receiver so it should have common ground.
It's not just old amps that are non-common ground, there are tons of new ones as well.
Your AVR is definitely common ground.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Are Pioneer Elites with ICE modules common ground?I don't know of any receiver that isn't common ground.
Since you're using different drivers, the weighting of the PR may be off. Otherwise I agree, due to Polk's cookie cutter crossovers(before advanced measuring tools were available), CRS's in a M10 may be close enough.I didn't change the PRs that were in the 10Bs so that eliminates any problem with cabinet volume. I do realize that the PRs have characteristics, weighting being one of them, that are designed specifically for a given cabinet volume. That is the reason (besides being extra work) that I didn't use the CRS+ PRs. The CRS+ PRs are different and have different part numbers. I would expect them to be tuned specifically for the CRS+ cabinets. I would not recommend using them in the 10B cabinets."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche -
Are Pioneer Elites with ICE modules common ground?
I would assume so. I could test mine, but it's too much of a PITA to get to the back.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Yes the Pioneer's elites are common ground.
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The first thing I wanted to know was if the CRS+ crossovers were designed for a specific cabinet volume or MW spacing. I quickly found the answer to be no on both counts. The CRS+ crossovers are the same crossovers that are used in the 1987 SDA 2B pin/blade speakers.
The next thing I needed to know was if the MW 6511 dimensional driver was made specifically for the CRS+ cabinet volume. Again I found the answer to be no. The MW 6511 was also used in the 1987 SDA 2B speakers which have a different cabinet volume and driver spacing than the CRS+.
You are correct that SDA drivers are not made for a specific cabinet volume. Evidence of this is that the same drivers are used across multiple SDA models across multiple SDA model generations. However, a specific combination of drivers, tweeters, passive radiator, crossover and driver/tweeter/passive spacing is specified for specific cabinet volumes.
In the case of the 1987 CRS+ and 2B, the stereo and dimensional drivers, tweeters and crossovers are the same, but the passive radiators are different. The 2B uses the SW121 passive. The CRS+ uses the SW100 passive.
In the case of the 1989 CRS+ and 2B, the dimensional drivers, tweeters and crossovers are the same, but the the stereo drivers and passive radiators are different. The 2B uses the MW6503 stereo driver, the CRS+ uses the MW6510 stereo driver. The 2B uses the SW121 passive. The CRS+ uses the SW100 passive.
I agree that the most important thing is that the sound is pleasing to your ears.Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country! -
Did some listening with these and monitor 7's and still can't decide which one's better.
I was expecting a dramatic sound improvement in the SDA series from monitor series.
Are there some tracks, part of a song that can bring SDA effect easily?
Thanks
Klipsch RB81, KG3.5, B&W DM602.5, Polk.
Subwoofers: Klipsch RW10, Triad ProSub Bronze. -
so...tell us about your room;)
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Did some listening with these and monitor 7's and still can't decide which one's better.
I was expecting a dramatic sound improvement in the SDA series from monitor series.
Are there some tracks, part of a song that can bring SDA effect easily?
Thanks
There really shouldn't be any comparsion, the SDA's should sound different."Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
There really shouldn't be any comparsion, the SDA's should sound different.
So with some of the Monitor series having the same drivers as the SDA's one would guess they would sound similar but without the Sda effect. -
+1...much different.There really shouldn't be any comparsion, the SDA's should sound different."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche -
So with some of the Monitor series having the same drivers as the SDA's one would guess they would sound similar but without the Sda effect.
Right and a Ford truck with the same 289 as a Cobra shouldn't be any different either. The entire presentation and design is different even if they use the same drivers. The general tone/timbre should be similar, but it stops there"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
As an outsider reading up until now, I would say that the similarities between the two models would cause tonal similarities as described by H9. The main difference will be the soundstage from the SDA effect. The tonal characteristics will also vary but are definitely the difference that makes the SDA's what they are. As requested by SDA2Mike your room characteristics and placement will greatly effect the dimensional effect that the CRS+'s will/ can give you. Keep in mind that all this also is going to pretty much be limited to "sweet spot" listening. Outside that area, you will loose dimensional sensation and the primary enhancement that comes from the SDA's will be miniscule at best. Good luck getting it right and enjoy the road.If con is the opposite of pro, is Congress the opposite of Progress?!
Monitor 5Jr, Monitor 5, RTA12, RTA 15TL, SDA 2A, 1c, SRS 2, 1.2TL, CRS, Atrium. -
Right and a Ford truck with the same 289 as a Cobra shouldn't be any different either. The entire presentation and design is different even if they use the same drivers. The general tone/timbre should be similar, but it stops there
Terrible comparison.... If you pull the same MW driver out of the Sda & monitor they sound 100% the same period. -
Oh, ok you're right Monitors and SDA's sound almost the same because they use the same drivers. Don't know why I've owned several of both and sold them side by side in an audio store when new and never noticed they are similar. Stupid people should have bought Monitors instead of SDA's, would have saved them a lot of money. Damn Polk trickery to sell something "appearing" to be different for a whole lot more $$$$$$, when the Monitors are almost the same.
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
Terrible comparison.... If you pull the same MW driver out of the Sda & monitor they sound 100% the same period.
Terrible statement, as the driver is not what makes the SDA's different."Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
Oh, ok you're right Monitors and SDA's sound almost the same because they use the same drivers. Don't know why I've owned several of both and sold them side by side in an audio store when new and never noticed they are similar. Stupid people should have bought Monitors instead of SDA's, would have saved them a lot of money. Damn Polk trickery to sell something "appearing" to be different for a whole lot more $$$$$$, when the Monitors are almost the same.
H9
You wear glasses and still can't read. I never said the presentation of both speakers sound the same but rather the tonal characteristics are similar. Unplug your SDA's and they sound similar to the single mid driver monitors. Just my opinion though.
Have a great day... -
Can't we all just get along? LOL!
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Thanks for comments and healthy discussions...
so...tell us about your room;)
If you look at the picture above, the speakers are about 5 feet apart and the couch is about 8 feet from them.
On the right side, you can see staircase and this room is a long open room; main door from north all the way to sliding door to the left of the TV setup. Main door --> kitchen area-->dining area-->living area which is about 14 x 12 ft.
I listen at exactly center of these two speakers.
You can see Advents behind the CRS+, Monitor 7's on top of Advents and monitor 4's on top of 7's.
There is a Niles SPS-6 speaker selector that is hooked up to the 3 pairs of Polk speakers.
That's what I'm trying/wanting to hear as I read so much about SDA effect but it's almost the same.There really shouldn't be any comparsion, the SDA's should sound different.
I listened alone and then also had my wife switch from 7's to the CRS+ and it's not that different.
I'll have to go through that SDA demo song thread to see if any track brings the SDA charisma.
It's alright. Brain needs some exercise every now and then.Can't we all just get along? LOL!
Klipsch RB81, KG3.5, B&W DM602.5, Polk.
Subwoofers: Klipsch RW10, Triad ProSub Bronze.
