New horn speakers are in!
Comments
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So far the woofers sound very similar, but they also have very little time on them.
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Very cool. Let us know how it sounds after break in. Those woofers look massive. I wonder how they compare to the Crites 15" woofers that he sells as upgrades to the Klipsch Heritage line.
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I have the Crites cast woofers as well, so I'll be comparing. I don't think I can go wrong either way.
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Jake, you have ALL the Kewl sheeet
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So far the custom Soniphase woofers and the Crites cast woofers seem to be very similar. The Soniphase are still breaking in, so I will hold my final judgement for a few more weeks. I'm really not going to know the differences until I do some critical listening, and then swap the Crites back in, and re-listen to the same material. Both woofers dig to 35Hz, and have plenty of punch with 6" slot loading.
I actually need to get new 6" slot mounting plates made as my 3" ones are very nice 1" birch with throat guides, and my 6" ones are splintered and warped 1/4" ply. I've probably have t-nuts drilled into them as well so the wood doesn't get damaged from changing the mounting. The good ones: -
With a few more items sold, this amp will be built and sent my direction. I have decided on the Minute-EL34 from SAC Thailand, and will be getting the headphone option as well. This little amp will power my horns or headphones when I want a different flavor from the Grant Fidelity W30. The picture below was sent to me by their rep, and when I asked him about rolling 6922s for the provided 6N1P, here is the reply:
I tried some 6922 and 6DJ8, but some tubes developed spark inside the tube, so I would strongly urge you to pay full attention and be prepared if you want to try to use those tubes. However, it is possible to totally change the tonal and gain of the amp by using 6CG7/6FQ7 tube. I have used Electro-harmonix 6CG7 without any problem.
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That's great man. Thanks for the update on the woofers and amp.
I went through the SAC website quickly but they didn't mention how the EL34's are connected. Going by the 10w/ch power output, I'm guessing it's in ultralinear configuration. Since they're building the amp for you from scratch, have you considered asking them to add a triode/ultralinear mod/switch? It's pretty much a 5 minute job for the builder and I doubt they would charge extra for it. Triode will bring you down to about 5w/ch but it does sound sweeter than UL. If you feel the need for more power to rock out, just switch it back into UL.
Another great thing about running EL34's in single ended, is that tube rolling is MUCH cheaper than running push pull amps. There are so many EL34's play around with and they all sound very different from one another. I rotate my EL34's every few months, but lately the =C= has remained there for a long time. I see that SAC ships their Minute amp with the New Sensor Svetlana.
Becareful, once you go single ended with highly efficient/sensitive speakers, you may never go back to push pull :-).
Keep us posted. -
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Yeah, I have one EL84 int amp. It's pentode at 5w/ch.
It has more "snap" to the sound which makes it sound a little faster than my EL34. I find the sound to be a little more controlled as well. Many people say the reason for this (EL34 vs 84) is the smaller bottle of the 84 and shorter distances for the electrons to flow. But who knows.
The EL34 gives me more of that bloom, warmth, openness, etc that I really like.
What EL84 amp do you have in mind? -
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If you're talking about the Zen amp from Decware, Mrh owns one. I haven't seen him in a while. You might want to PM him about sound quality, etc.
Nice NOS Siemens cap. That's very early production with the Siemens & Halske logo. -
If you're talking about the Zen amp from Decware, Mrh owns one. I haven't seen him in a while. You might want to PM him about sound quality, etc.
I did chat with him after I posted the EL84 comment; thanks.Nice NOS Siemens cap. That's very early production with the Siemens & Halske logo.
Any idea how the cap might sound in a crossover? My horns use a custom Klipsch A crossover that currently uses Sonicaps, and I want to put warmer caps in it to tame to top end a bit. I like Sonicaps in Polk speakers for their detail, but that seems to be too much of a good thing. Even Sonicraft did not recommend Sonicaps for horn speakers. -
Decided to tweak my speakers again tonight and pulled the inductor out of the crossover and mounted it inline with the woofer in the woofer cabinet; easy to do as the crossover has one inductor for the woofer, and two caps for the horns. I then ran my class D amp straight into the woofer using the variable output on my tube integrated. Nothing better than EL34s feeding the high and mid horns and 440wpc SS feeding the 4 ohm Soniphase, custom horn loaded woofers. :cool: The amp for the woofers is only set at about 1/4 gain, and seems to have brought some more punch to the sound. I can't jam the speakers now as my daughter is asleep, but tomorrow all give'em hell and see how the amp combo sounds. I used the same combo on my Fortes and really liked it, so I can't see how this won't be more of a good thing. The nice things is I can always adjust the bass up or down independent of the horns by a little twist of the gain knob. Maybe an action movie tomorrow night?
My uncle feeds his Klipschorns with H/K SS monoblocks, and I think the bass was the only thing his speakers had over mine... -
Smart move!
A buddy and I hooked up an Ayon Crossfire on the top end and a Wyred 4 Sound ST-500 on the bottom end of his Acoustic Zen Crescendo speakers...in a word, amazing! IMO, the best of both worlds. Tube harmonics, huge soundstage, imaging, and a powerful, tight bottom end. I'd love to replicate that power combo here one day. FYI, we used a Goldpoint attenuator to level match the two amps."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche -
I've never used PIO so can't comment there. Sorry. If you're looking to tame the squawker/highs, you can always try one of the AL crossover with autoformers that you see a lot in the Klipsch forum. You can use different taps to lower your mids/highs.
That's good to hear about your bi-amp set up. Let us know how it handles high spl when you have time to crank them. Did I hear you mention EL34 amp in that post? You already received the unit? -
I've never used PIO so can't comment there. Sorry. If you're looking to tame the squawker/highs, you can always try one of the AL crossover with autoformers that you see a lot in the Klipsch forum. You can use different taps to lower your mids/highs.
I do have Crites autotransformers in the crossovers and have played with the levels to what sounds like a good fit. One issue I may have is I'm running Shuguang EL34Bs, and really need to roll better tubes in the amp that have a softer top end. I also want to rebuild the crossovers using different caps which might help mellow the sound.That's good to hear about your bi-amp set up. Let us know how it handles high spl when you have time to crank them. Did I hear you mention EL34 amp in that post? You already received the unit?
Just my usual Grant Fidelity W30 integrated running EL34s. I will crank it tonight and see how everything sounds. I can guess what it might sound like, but it's funny how changing one thing in your system can alter other unknowns for you... -
Try the Winged =C= SED for a softer top end. That tube has the least amount of extension in the HF's but the sweetest mids. It's the warmest sounding EL34 too, so it should match your speakers very well. The Shuguangs are very good but not really the type of tube you want if you want to tame the highs.
True that about changing one thing can alter other unknowns. Hopefully you don't run into unexpected surprises. -
Listened to a few tunes last night with the new amplification (tubes for the mid/high horns and class D SS for the woofers) and it was great! I'll do some better critical listening tonight, but listening through a few songs and watching a movie last night showed me that this combination filled out the bottom end of the corner horns. Not only was there more punch and deeper bass, but if sounded more full and fleshed out through the mid-bass. More to come...
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Tubes and SS truly are a great combo, even with the passive crossovers. I listened through a few albums, and tweaked the woofer levels up and down a few times until the bottom end was full and punchy, but not noticeable on its own. Running the class D amp is nice because I just leave it on 24/7 without much heat, and just turn my integrated tube amp on and off like normal. It does seem to be the best combination of sweet and detailed top end with powerful punchy bass; especially with the corner horns.
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I put the Crites cast woofers back in last night, so I'll listen to them today and see what I think compared to the now broken-in, custom Soniphase woofers. The cast Crites woofers verses the stamped Soniphase woofers have a much better feel and look to them, but I guess that's not what matters... :rolleyes:
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... The cast Crites woofers verses the stamped Soniphase woofers have a much better feel and look to them, but I guess that's not what matters... :rolleyes:
Ever hear the expression "All hat, no cowboy"?
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To be honest with you, Zingo, that looks like a motor run capacitor as opposed to a speaker crossover part. I don't mean to suggest it wouldn't sound good or bad, but it wasn't originally intended as a crossover cap. But, then again Bob Fulton used automotive coils in his crossovers and look what he achieved.
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Noted Ken, and that was my expectation going it. I'm wanting to tweak the sound of my speakers with new caps, so thought I'd start with something decently review and dirt cheap. Plus, who doesn't like some good German engineering?
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Ran the Crites woofers last night, and I was slightly disappointed. After running the Soniphase woofers for a month and breaking them in, swapping back to the Crites was a bit of a let down. It's hard to describe the details, but the bass on the Soniphase woofers sounded more natural, more balanced, and had a little more volume which helped contribute to the two previous. As I noted previously, the Crites are much better looking woofers, and probably work very well in the Klipsch woofer bin, but they Soniphase custom woofers were just what my Soniphase custom corner cabinets were needing.
Anyone what a pair of Crites cast woofers with low hours? -
Been away for a while. Interesting updates.
Maybe the Crites woofers are not broken in yet? -
Been away for a while. Interesting updates.
Maybe the Crites woofers are not broken in yet?
They came to me broken in, so that was nice to not have to do that. The Crites is a VERY good woofer and better IMO than the stock K33 (it is a copy), but the Soniphase woofers are tuned differently, and seem to fully exploit my sealed back, corner horns which are a little different than the Klipschorn bass bin. I don't think I would say the Crites were lacking in my application if I hadn't heard the other woofers back to back, because they are both good. The fact that both the Soniphase woofer cabinets (patented) and woofers were designed by Dana, and for each other, probably means I should trust his design skills and high level of acoustic expertise. -
Aaah. Didn't know they were already broken in.
I think you're doing the right thing. Always use what the designer say will be best.
Now that you mentioned it, I should have compared the Crites woofers to the K33. I did a complete restoration on my Cornwall and got rid of the original K33 woofers right away.
Any news as to when your Minute amp will be arriving? -
Swapped the Soniphase woofers back in using the 3" motorboards with tapered throat. Didn't get too much play time or too much volume as my daughter was sleeping. As every woofer responds differently to different motorboards, the sound was much more impressive than the Crites woofers with the same motorboards. They are 4 ohm woofers with a 3" voice coil and Dana thought it should be a good paring. I'm give them some critical listening tonight, but they seem to have plenty of punch, as well as great integration into the mid/high horns. More to come...
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