just rcvd my Squeezebox Touch!

135

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  • Drenis
    Drenis Posts: 2,871
    edited February 2012
    heiney9 wrote: »
    It's really the worst way to do it the way you are doing it as far as getting the best possible audio stream. How are you using the optical output if you are playing CD's in the disc drive? It's not possible, because it converts the music at the soundcard which means you are using the computer internals for the analog signal. Worst way possible. Now I'm beginning to understand why you were complaining about your rig sounding so bad.

    H9

    But wouldn't using say digital coax out from a sound card (something $150) bit streamed FLAC filed into a DAC work better then his method? Comparible to USB out when async is not an option?

    I've contemplated the above for my setup. Could still run USB...
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited February 2012
    Slightly better, the soundcard is the issue really as it's still tied to the nasty compute environment. I'd always opt for USB.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • DMara
    DMara Posts: 1,434
    edited February 2012
    I prefer the SQB Touch/ Synology DS-1511+ NAS combination because I don't have to leave my noisy, wattage hungry PC on all the time as well as I love the convenience of controlling music via apps such as iPeng for iOS and Squeeze Commander for Android. The NAS box runs Logitech Media Server installed via a package provided by Synology; it is in my office room, far far away from any audio electronics, therefore my 2-channel room is as black as possible, no noise at all. NAS => Squeezebox Touch => Wyred 4 Sound DAC22 => Wyred 4 Sound STP/SE pre-amp => Wyred 4 Sound ST-1000 amp.
    Gears shared to both living room & bedroom:
    Integra DHC-80.3 / Oppo BDP-105 / DirecTV HR24 DVR /APC S15blk PC-UPS
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    Usher Dancer Mini 2 Diamond DMD's / Logitech SB Touch / W4S STP-SE / W4S DAC-2 / W4S ST-1000 / Samsung 52" LN52B750
    Other rooms:
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  • Serendipity
    Serendipity Posts: 6,975
    edited February 2012
    heiney9 wrote: »
    Slightly better, the soundcard is the issue really as it's still tied to the nasty compute environment. I'd always opt for USB.

    H9

    So the USB box must be external to the computer's case for best sound quality, due to the interference from the PC's electronics within the case? I've seen USB adapters that sit a short distance away from the PC and connect to an external DAC in several demos. I believe they work together as a pair.
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  • FTGV
    FTGV Posts: 3,649
    edited February 2012
    SCompRacer wrote: »
    IIRC the Audio GD discrete op amps pull ~ 26mA ...
    So about 52ma total draw as he only needs two.A quick look at a pic of the inards of his DAC seems to show it to have some sort of simple unheat sinked discrete reg for the opamps instead of the standard 3 pin variety .So not sure if it can handle the extra draw without generating too much heat in the devices.

    I'll put my sceptics hat on and ask $12 for a fully discrete opamp?I wonder about parts quality and the extent of transistor matching ,testing etc which usually translates into $.Just being discrete IMO does'nt necessarily mean it will outperform a good IC opamp, but then again at that price it would be worth trying.
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  • FTGV
    FTGV Posts: 3,649
    edited February 2012
    heiney9 wrote: »
    ... the soundcard is the issue really as it's still tied to the nasty compute environment.
    Most DAC's will have a pulse transformer on their SPDIF input which like USB provides galvanic isolation.
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  • Serendipity
    Serendipity Posts: 6,975
    edited February 2012
    FTGV wrote: »
    Most DAC's will have a pulse transformer on their SPDIF input which like USB provides galvanic isolation.

    In that case then the sound should be similar to having an external USB --> DAC dongle?
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  • FTGV
    FTGV Posts: 3,649
    edited February 2012
    Dongle?
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  • Serendipity
    Serendipity Posts: 6,975
    edited February 2012
    Not sure of the exact name of it. Has USB connector on the computer's end and sits a short distance away from the PC. Pairs up with DAC.
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  • FTGV
    FTGV Posts: 3,649
    edited February 2012
    USB -SPDIF convertor?Only needed if the DAC does'nt already have a dedicted USB input.
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  • Serendipity
    Serendipity Posts: 6,975
    edited February 2012
    I think it was something used to extract the bitstream directly from the computer. Salesman said it was necessary to play high-rez files.
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited February 2012
    FTGV wrote: »
    So about 52ma total draw as he only needs two.A quick look at a pic of the inards of his DAC seems to show it to have some sort of simple unheat sinked discrete reg for the opamps instead of the standard 3 pin variety .So not sure if it can handle the extra draw without generating too much heat in the devices.

    I'll put my sceptics hat on and ask $12 for a fully discrete opamp?I wonder about parts quality and the extent of transistor matching ,testing etc which usually translates into $.Just being discrete IMO does'nt necessarily mean it will outperform a good IC opamp, but then again at that price it would be worth trying.

    I'm right there with you Fred. But the same op-amps are used the in the Audio GD dac I have (NFB 3) and it sounds pretty darn good. I was just thinking of doing some experimenting on the cheap, but the current draw was a concern.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • FTGV
    FTGV Posts: 3,649
    edited February 2012
    Sorry the tone was a tad negative but they could also turn out be genuine sonic bargains.I might order a pair myself to try in my various DAC's.
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  • SCompRacer
    SCompRacer Posts: 8,494
    edited February 2012
    FTGV wrote: »
    So about 52ma total draw as he only needs two.....

    There are three they offer; Earth, Moon and Sun. I was incorrect, two are 28mA and one is 25mA each. Here is a pic of one.

    lead.jpg

    The page...

    http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/diy/OPA/OPAEN.htm
    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited February 2012
    No problem with the tone Fred. I might pass until I can atleast get a schematic to see how the PS is laid out for the Keces. The current draw is significantly more than the stock Op-amps.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • SCompRacer
    SCompRacer Posts: 8,494
    edited February 2012
    FTGV wrote: »
    Dongle?

    I've used that term for folks that run a short piece of coax with BNC connector off the PCB of their SB Touch. (Not referring to the people, the cable).:cheesygrin: AKA security key. I'm gonna get brave one of these days and mod Brock's Touch with a BNC dongle.:razz: If I don't mess it up, mines next.
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  • Serendipity
    Serendipity Posts: 6,975
    edited February 2012
    I wouldn't do it if as you say the current draw is "significantly more" just to be on the safe side. Yes, most designs do include some sort of thermal margin of error but I personally would recommend against it. Again, not debating, just IMO...
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  • SCompRacer
    SCompRacer Posts: 8,494
    edited February 2012
    heiney9 wrote: »
    No problem with the tone Fred. I might pass until I can atleast get a schematic to see how the PS is laid out for the Keces. The current draw is significantly more than the stock Op-amps.

    H9

    My fav way is stick an amp meter in series and load it until it smokes. Then you know the limits.:cheesygrin:
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  • Serendipity
    Serendipity Posts: 6,975
    edited February 2012
    IMO, I would rather err on the safe side...
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  • SCompRacer
    SCompRacer Posts: 8,494
    edited February 2012
    But I only error intentionally.:twisted::cheesygrin: We can figure out how much power is available in the circuit and decide if more sink is needed. I've experienced thermal limits before they should have happened. Everything has a tolerance, some meet, some exceed, some don't get as close to meet.
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  • Drenis
    Drenis Posts: 2,871
    edited February 2012
    FTGV wrote: »
    Most DAC's will have a pulse transformer on their SPDIF input which like USB provides galvanic isolation.

    Can you elaborate on this more? You've got me pondering which option to go with. Sound card coax out or dirty motherboard usb out?
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  • FTGV
    FTGV Posts: 3,649
    edited February 2012
    A DAC with a pulse transformer on it's SPDIF coax input will not have any direct connection to the PC (or other transport so) thus providing isolation from PC noise and potential ground loops.Toslink affords similar isolation as does the better USB implementations.
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  • FTGV
    FTGV Posts: 3,649
    edited February 2012
    SCompRacer wrote: »
    There are three they offer; Earth, Moon and Sun. I was incorrect, two are 28mA and one is 25mA each. Here is a pic of one.

    lead.jpg
    Unfortunately no pics of the single versions.(maybe on purpose?)I see some Dale resistors which are very good assuming they are not counterfits.Brock have you seen any user reports on these?
    SCompRacer wrote: »
    My fav way is stick an amp meter in series and load it until it smokes. Then you know the limits.:cheesygrin:
    I use the quick and dirty shorting the output method of inducing the magic smoke.


    SCompRacer wrote: »
    But I only error intentionally.:twisted::cheesygrin: We can figure out how much power is available in the circuit and decide if more sink is needed.
    Maybe Brock has better pics of his but the one I seen in the pic's had no heatsinking on the transistors in the reg section.Adding some would likely be all he needs.
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  • FTGV
    FTGV Posts: 3,649
    edited February 2012
    heiney9 wrote: »
    So if I understand what you are saying a better receiving clock in an adaptive environment means nothing when the data is being transfered? It doesn't fix data stream issues from computers clock?
    Correct.

    Though not possible with the integrated USB/DAC chips like the PCM 2702 there are some things that can be done further down stream such as the addition of a sample rate convertor like Benchmark and Bryston and some others do.
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  • SCompRacer
    SCompRacer Posts: 8,494
    edited February 2012
    FTGV wrote: »
    I use the quick and dirty shorting the output method of inducing the magic smoke.

    I like your way better!:twisted::cheesygrin:
    Maybe Brock has better pics of his but the one I seen in the pic's had no heatsinking on the transistors in the reg section.Adding some would likely be all he needs.

    I'm kind of behind and haven't kept up with his latest escapades, er, forades, into other gear.:cheesygrin:
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  • FTGV
    FTGV Posts: 3,649
    edited February 2012
    SCompRacer wrote: »
    I'm kind of behind and haven't kept up with his latest escapades, er, forades, into other gear.:cheesygrin:
    I think he's becoming a bit of a DAC ****.:smile:
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  • SCompRacer
    SCompRacer Posts: 8,494
    edited February 2012
    FTGV wrote: »
    I think he's becoming a bit of a DAC ****.:smile:

    He picks on me when he visits too. I think he used to do the 'start the lawnmower' motion when I started my Nottingham TT platter spinning.:cheesygrin:
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  • FTGV
    FTGV Posts: 3,649
    edited February 2012
    As long as did'nt make fun of your dongle.
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited February 2012
    FTGV wrote: »
    I think he's becoming a bit of a DAC ****.:smile:

    Maybe a little :lol:
    SCompRacer wrote: »
    He picks on me when he visits too. I think he used to do the 'start the lawnmower' motion when I started my Nottingham TT platter spinning.:cheesygrin:

    Was that wrong? :biggrin: Now I can do that to Rob since he has your Nottingham now.
    FTGV wrote: »
    As long as did'nt make fun of your dongle.

    Never make fun of a man's dongle :razz:

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited February 2012
    FTGV wrote: »
    Unfortunately no pics of the single versions.(maybe on purpose?)I see some Dale resistors which are very good assuming they are not counterfits.Brock have you seen any user reports on these?

    I use the quick and dirty shorting the output method of inducing the magic smoke.



    Maybe Brock has better pics of his but the one I seen in the pic's had no heatsinking on the transistors in the reg section.Adding some would likely be all he needs.

    Good to know about the heat sinking.

    Here is a large thread on Headfi about the op-amps

    http://www.head-fi.org/t/397691/audio-gd-discrete-op-amps-reviewed-opa-earth-opa-moon-opa-sun-v-2
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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