just rcvd my Squeezebox Touch!

sda2mike

I've had Classics for a couple years now...this thread is more about the Logitech customer service...i called them when one of my players was getting flaky...they offered 50% off a new Touch!...how could i resist?? all of my Classics i bought were used, so this will be fun..Now, i'll have a player in the bedside position;) in addition to the BR, main, patio/pool/sauna, garage and office..to think, i used to play cd's!!!

oh btw, the sick player...is now working! might have to reflow a cold joint or smthg

coolsax

nice.. my sb touch is out for delivery right now on a UPS truck.. only i might not get it til Monday if it requires a signature b/c i won't be home til way late... so we'll see.. hoping they drop it off.. not really worried about neighbors taking it.. and would like to play around with it this weekend

nspindel

Really psyched to see so many people jumping on squeezeboxes, I've been using it for years. I have 6 of them

If you have an iphone/ipad/ipod touch, then definitely check out the ipeng app!

heiney9

And for Android the Squeeze Commander app.

H9

Serendipity

For those squeezebox users, what's the difference between using a squeezebox vs. having a audiophile sound card in your PC (with optical/coax out) and feeding it to an external DAC? Seems like the squeezebox is more complicated because you have to stream from the PC and then hook the squeezebox to your rig.

Here's the back of my PC:

Attachment not found.

Wouldn't it be easier to just go optical out --> DAC and then hook that up to your rig?

heiney9

Serendipity wrote: »

For those squeezebox users, what's the difference between using a squeezebox vs. having a audiophile sound card in your PC (with optical/coax out) and feeding it to an external DAC? Seems like the squeezebox is more complicated because you have to stream from the PC and then hook the squeezebox to your rig.

Here's the back of my PC:

Attachment not found.

Wouldn't it be easier to just go optical out --> DAC and then hook that up to your rig?

A soundcard in a PC is the worst possible connection and then you need the computer very near your rig. How are you going to remotely change songs/artists/albums? It's not the same at all. Big CPU, keyboard and monitor (unless you use your TV). Many 2 channel rigs don't have a TV screen and I never have my TV on.

The SQB isn't complicated at all. It's a software program and hooking the 8" x 8" box up. Nothing to it.

H9

Serendipity

heiney9 wrote: »

A soundcard in a PC is the worst possible connection and then you need the computer very near your rig. How are you going to remotely change songs/artists/albums? It's not the same at all. Big CPU, keyboard and monitor (unless you use your TV). Many 2 channel rigs don't have a TV screen and I never have my TV on

I just use the projector and the HP remote to do this. A projector is very convenient because you can change settings very quickly on the PC. You mean you don't have a projector that can be easily turned on for viewing?

I should have been clearer - I am NOT using the sound card in the PC, it's a USB to coax dongle that's built into the PC.

heiney9

USB to coax is usually compromised as well, but it's better than using the soundcard and optical. I certainly wouldn't want my projector or TV on everytime I wanted to listen to music, nor would I want a PC out near my rig. I have a seperate (extra, older) computer that runs my SQB in another part of the house.

I'm not saying your way can't be done, I guess it all depends on what you want in your main rig. HTPC's are becoming popular, but if I were to do that I'd have the entire PC somewhere else and stream wirelessly. I don't want a PC in my living room nor in my main rig.

H9

P.s. I also run other Squeeze products in different parts of the house off the same network.

Serendipity

^^ You still need a DAC with the HP as it has a built-in USB to coax converter, if you don't have that built-in your can buy the following and then feed it to a DAC:

http://www.musicdirect.com/p-53356-musical-fidelity-v-link-192-usb-to-coax-converter.aspx

Serendipity

heiney9 wrote: »

USB to coax is usually compromised as well, but it's better than using the soundcard and optical. I certainly wouldn't want my projector or TV on everytime I wanted to listen to music, nor would I want a PC out near my rig. I have a seperate (extra, older) computer that runs my SQB in another part of the house.

I'm not saying your way can't be done, I guess it all depends on what you want in your main rig. HTPC's are becoming popular, but if I were to do that I'd have the entire PC somewhere else and stream wirelessly. I don't want a PC in my living room nor in my main rig.

H9

I actually have the HTPC in a rack with all of the audio gear and wall plates to connect everything to the viewing area. This was because all of the equipment vents towards the BACK of the rack and that goes into a utility room / closet. Which also is where my 9 dedicated circuits were installed, I have the breaker panel located inside the utility closet. Since the HP remote uses IR, I have to have the remote facing towards the rack - that is the only difficulty. But an IR repeater from Xantech easily fixes this.

The projector is at the back of the room with a 50' HDMI cable run inside the utility room / closet. Harmony 1100 remote has all the codes, including the HTPC, so a single button press turns on everything and as I keep the screen rolled down, don't even have to worry about it. Quite honestly, a projector is great for choosing songs and for sources such as DVD-Audio, is a necessity because the menus are necessary on many DVD-Audio discs. I personally could not live without the projector in my rig.

I personally think this is easier, but to each his own.

heiney9

It's not easier, but every situation is different as well as every home configuration. SQB integration is better, but like I said if someone is incorporating an HTPC as part of their plan, then perhaps utilizing that is a better option for that situation.

Trust me, it's not easier, just another way to do it. Again, I wouldn't want my projector on as part of the display to listen to music. That's just me.

H9

P.s. You always pose these questions then take it on a completely different tangent. No one said anything about DVD-audio and using the SQB. Of course if you are wanting to do other things outside the scope of what the SQB was designed for, then there are obvioulsy advantages to your way of doing it, but you never make that clear in your initial question.

You are doing things outside the scope of the SQB, so obviously for you it's not the best option.

Sort of bait people when you post stuff.

H9

Serendipity

I am just going by the following post as I am unsure if I need the Musical Fidelity V-Link and then an Esoteric D-07??

Serendipity wrote: »

I have the HP Digital Entertainment Center z560, which has optical and coax out. If I feed it into a decent DAC like the $5,000 Esoteric D-07, mod my PC to tap the master clock, and sync the clock to the Esoteric DAC, wouldn't this outperform a squeezebox?

Face wrote: »

Yes it would.

Right now I am using the built-in USB to coax converter of the HP and then feeding it to my rig. I am NOT using the sound card and bypassing it in this case. Would this work?

heiney9

Again adding more information after you asked a seemingly innocuous question. It seems you already have your answer, so why are you asking in this thread? Why not say all this in your first post. It just seems like you are baiting people to answer a general question and then you start debating knowing full well you already have your answer.

H9

Serendipity

heiney9 wrote: »

It's not easier, but every situation is different as well as every home configuration. SQB integration is better, but like I said if someone is incorporating an HTPC as part of their plan, then perhaps utilizing that is a better option for that situation.

Trust me, it's not easier, just another way to do it. Again, I wouldn't want my projector on as part of the display to listen to music. That's just me.

H9

P.s. You always pose these questions then take it on a completely different tangent. No one said anything about DVD-audio and using the SQB. Of course if you are wanting to do other things outside the scope of what the SQB was designed for, then there are obvioulsy advantages to your way of doing it, but you never make that clear in your initial question.

You are doing things outside the scope of the SQB, so obviously for you it's not the best option.

Sort of bait people when you post stuff.

H9

That's fine, it's just a matter of opinion. I think it is easier since I am using a dedicated room, every situation is different so I can see where it might not be easier. I am just discussing different options to connecting a PC to a rig, squeezebox or not.

tonyb

Now thats a first, using a projector to thumb your music. Seems like a waste of bulb life to me, or your blind as a bat. To each his own I guess. The limiting factor as I see it, is you can only access your music library in that room. If you want to play music in another room from the computer, or even outside, your stuck.

Serendipity

heiney9 wrote: »

Again adding more information after you asked a seemingly innocuous question. It seems you already have your answer, so why are you asking in this thread? Why not say all this in your first post. It just seems like you are baiting people to answer a general question and then you start debating knowing full well you already have your answer.

H9

Not the intent, I don't know where you are getting that from...

heiney9

Serendipity wrote: »

^^ You still need a DAC with the HP as it has a built-in USB to coax converter, if you don't have that built-in your can buy the following and then feed it to a DAC:

http://www.musicdirect.com/p-53356-musical-fidelity-v-link-192-usb-to-coax-converter.aspx

And there is evidence out there that USB to SPDIF is another area that if precautions aren't taken it's not as good as USB. Of course this is debated, just as anything else is in audio. Straight USB is *generally* the better sounding connection.

H9

heiney9

Serendipity wrote: »

Not the intent, I don't know where you are getting that from...

You ask why is the SQB better, I answer. Then you start talking about well I can do DVD-A and this and that..........outside the scope of what the SQB can do or was designed to do.

Then you talk about tapping the internal clock through optical and outputting it to a $5000 dac. Again, if that's the route you are going, then no it's not better.

Why not just state that in your first post as a qualifier?

H9

Serendipity

heiney9 wrote: »

And there is evidence out there that USB to SPDIF is another area that if precautions aren't taken it's not as good as USB. Of course this is debated, just as anything else is in audio. Straight USB is *generally* the better sounding connection.

H9

Thank you. So USB to S/PDIF (like the Musical Fidelity in the link I posted) can be inferior. Got that.

Serendipity

heiney9 wrote: »

You ask why is the SQB better, I answer. Then you start talking about well I can do DVD-A and this and that..........outside the scope of what the SQB can do or was designed to do.

Then you talk about tapping the internal clock through optical and outputting it to a $5000 dac. Again, if that's the route you are going, then no it's not better.

Why not just state that in your first post as a qualifier?

H9

No one is trying to argue here. There's many ways of achieving the same thing, let's get this back on track...

Just wanted to understand why the SQB can provide better sound than a USB to coax, that's all.

FTGV

heiney9 wrote: »

. Straight USB is *generally* the better sounding connection.

H9

Async USB can be very good but so can SPDIF Coax from a good sound card.

heiney9

Serendipity wrote: »

Thank you. So USB to S/PDIF (like the Musical Fidelity in the link I posted) can be inferior. Got that.

Yes, it can be.

tonyb

"Good" sound card being the caveot here, then yeah, I can somewhat agree.

heiney9

I'm not even convinced async is necessary in all instances, especially if have a really good clock when running adaptive. Lots and lots of variables on all the various connections and outputs to say. That's why I used the word generally, but there are too many variables. Have to look at it on a case by case basis. Some people are more sensitive to jitter than others so even raw jitter numbers mean little outside of a general statement, unless the jitter is extreme.

H9

Serendipity

Thank you. FWIW, I just heard the Esoteric D-07 and wasn't sure if I have (or had) the right gear to go with it. Thanks for clarifying in the above posts. I just wasn't sure if the squeezebox = wireless USB to S/PDIF converter, or if something else was necessary. I really like this DAC and it sounded good with warmer gear.

sda2mike

fwiw, i'm running an adcom gda600 on my main setup...just thought i'd toss that in;)

FTGV

heiney9 wrote: »

I'm not even convinced async is necessary in all instances,
H9

I could be mistaken but that seems to be a recent shift in position for you Brock?IMO sure there are some adaptive mode only devices that can sound good but I believe if your looking for the ""absolute" best data transfer via USB requires a good asycnc.solution.

Serendipity

FTGV, what USB decoder do I need to get the data transfer you are talking about?

On one end I have the PC mentioned above. This will connect to my stereo system.

I assume I need something with USB in the chain right??

heiney9

FTGV wrote: »

I could be mistaken but that seems to be a recent shift in position for you Brock?IMO sure there are some adaptive mode only devices that can sound good but I believe if your looking for the ""absolute" best data transfer via USB requires a good asycnc.solution.

It is a recent shift, after doing some reading and using the Keces DAC which sounds really, really good for an adaptive USB. They did use a seperate clock vs. the on chip clock which is very close in the signal path. I also realize other area's could be contributing to the better sound as well. For this kind of stuff (and I guess audio in general) it's the sum of the parts/implementation/design moreso than just a singular aspect of one part, etc. You can get good and bad sounding USB dac's and it might have nothing to do with whether they are async or not.

So you are saying no matter how good the receiving clock is for adaptive, async is always the best data transfer solution?

H9

Serendipity

heiney9 wrote: »

It is a recent shift, after doing some reading and using the Keces DAC which sounds really, really good for an adaptive USB. They did use a seperate clock vs. the on chip clock which is very close in the signal path. I also realize other area's could be contributing to the better sound as well. For this kind of stuff (and I guess audio in general) it's the sum of the parts/implementation/design moreso than just a singular aspect of one part, etc. You can get good and bad sounding USB dac's and it might have nothing to do with whether they are async or not.

H9

Is the USB port on a DAC the same thing as the USB decoder or the thing FTGV is discussing?

Or do you need something USB between the PC and the DAC?

heiney9

The USB is the connection method, then there is a plethora of other details about how the data is transfered, how it is received, and how it is interpreted.

If you are using a computer with the USB out to a software type audio player (Foobar, Media Monkey, J-River, etc) you need to ensure you are bypassing all the Windows manipulation that goes on. So WASAPI or ASIO is the prefered method of output from the software player. You'll need to find the plug-ins and drivers for that. They are generic for Foobar and Media Monkey.

It's not just a matter of plug-n-play. If you use a SQB you have none of these issues, again why I stated the SQB is the easiest solution.

H9