New amp with minimal improvement

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Comments

  • halo71
    halo71 Posts: 4,603
    edited February 2012
    Damn train has left the tracks folks....... lol
    --Gary--
    Onkyo Integra M504, Bottlehead Foreplay III, Denon SACD, Thiel CS2.3, NHT VT-2, VT-3 and Evolution T6, Infinity RSIIIa, SDA1C and a few dozen other speakers around the house I change in and out.
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  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,421
    edited February 2012
    kuntasensei wrote: »
    Just sayin'... I didn't know half of what I know now when I got started on my home theater journey with a Radio Shack Pro-Logic surround processor and a cheap JVC receiver (and I'm sure I don't know half as much as some of you who have experience with better gear than my paltry system). But if I had come here looking for advice and was met with all of this nonsense, you can bet your **** I wouldn't have stuck around for as long as I have... especially not long enough to learn that I could do better with my gear (and my system's nothing compared to many of you, as much as I love it).

    I just looked at the gear in your sig... it's all crap.:razz::cheesygrin:
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
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  • bikezappa
    bikezappa Posts: 2,463
    edited February 2012
    H9

    How can you use this quote on your page:

    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    And make any comments on any equipment?
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,171
    edited February 2012
    You really are missing the entire point and like others only want to read and interpret what fits your POV.

    I can certainly make comments based on my experiences in this hobby for going on almost 30 years now. At the end of the day everything is an opinion, some are just based more on actual experience rather than assumptions and knee jerk reactions.

    I strongly disagree specs and measurements can define an audio experience, that's just silly, IMO.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • bikezappa
    bikezappa Posts: 2,463
    edited February 2012
    heiney9 wrote: »
    You really are missing the entire point and like others only want to read and interpret what fits your POV.

    I can certainly make comments based on my experiences in this hobby for going on almost 30 years now. At the end of the day everything is an opinion, some are just based more on actual experience rather than assumptions and knee jerk reactions.

    I strongly disagree specs and measurements can define an audio experience, that's just silly, IMO.

    H9

    Well that is your opinion. I'm just try to undertsand your quote and how you can judge other peoples equipment if in fact "audio is a completely subjective human experience".
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  • bikezappa
    bikezappa Posts: 2,463
    edited February 2012
    I can certainly make comments based on my experiences in this hobby for going on almost 30 years now.

    But these opinions are all subjective. Am I missing that that point?
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  • Loud & Clear
    Loud & Clear Posts: 1,538
    edited February 2012
    While we're at it - getting rid of our poor-sounding audio equpment - it might also be wise for some of us to throw away our musical collections and start listening to music that "sounds good." I probably don't know what I don't know, but merely wished that I did ... or whatever homespun gem you care to insert.

    I think what the original poster experienced is something that I experienced recently; sometimes an AVR is capable of doing a great deal of what an external amp is capable of ... in the right room with the right speakers. And I've always found that Polk's Reference Theater lines have been pretty easy to drive to excellent results in a home theater setting with a decent AVR. I recently got rid of a high-powered external amp (Adcom 5503) because it just wasn't needed when driving speakers with a friendly impedance curve ... in other words, I couldn't tell much of a difference between the speakers running on the Adcom or running with the Marantz AVR. The OP is not completely alone and it isn't only experienced with Emotiva amps.

    Two Channel Setup:

    Speakers: Wharfedale Opus 2-3
    Integrated Amp: Krell S-300i
    DAC: Arcam irDac
    Source: iMac
    Remote Control: iPad Mini

    3.2 Home Theater Setup:

    Fronts: Klipsch RP-160M
    Center: Klipsch RP-160M
    Subwoofer: SVS PB12NSD (X 2)
    AVR: Yamaha Aventage RX-A2030
    Blu Ray: Sony BDP-S790
    TV Source: DirecTV Genie
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  • kuntasensei
    kuntasensei Posts: 3,263
    edited February 2012
    Loud & Clear, the OP didn't experience that at all, nor is he dissatisfied with his Emotiva amp. He merely had a setup issue, in that he needed to change the settings for his mains to full range. His problem was solved by post 20.
    Equipment list:
    Onkyo TX-NR3010 9.2 AVR
    Emotiva XPA-3 amp
    Polk RTi70 mains, CSi40 center, RTi38 surrounds, RTi28 rears and heights
    SVS 20-39CS+ subwoofer powered by Crown XLS1500
    Oppo BDP-93 Blu-ray player
    DarbeeVision DVP5000 video processor
    Epson 8500UB 1080p projector
    Elite Screens Sable 120" CineWhite screen
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  • kuntasensei
    kuntasensei Posts: 3,263
    edited February 2012
    nooshinjohn wrote: »
    I just looked at the gear in your sig... it's all crap.:razz::cheesygrin:
    I know! Complete garbage! It pains me every night to have to watch TV on only a 100" screen in 9.1 surround! And every time I feel the Buttkicker shake the couch, I think, "Man, I really have to do better." :cheesygrin:

    (In all seriousness, I do fear that my Samson 1000 is showing its age, so I'm gonna have to figure out a good 500w/ch stereo amp soon. Not that I'm asking you heathens for advice! Heh...)
    Equipment list:
    Onkyo TX-NR3010 9.2 AVR
    Emotiva XPA-3 amp
    Polk RTi70 mains, CSi40 center, RTi38 surrounds, RTi28 rears and heights
    SVS 20-39CS+ subwoofer powered by Crown XLS1500
    Oppo BDP-93 Blu-ray player
    DarbeeVision DVP5000 video processor
    Epson 8500UB 1080p projector
    Elite Screens Sable 120" CineWhite screen
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  • SDA1C
    SDA1C Posts: 2,072
    edited February 2012
    Loud & Clear wrote: »
    I think what the original poster experienced is something that I experienced recently; sometimes an AVR is capable of doing a great deal of what an external amp is capable of ...

    Exactly! Not really a hard concept. Heiney was saying the same thing in his own way. 200 watts of Emo wont touch 35 watts of Onkyo. To not get a wow factor from the addition of that amp to that pre doesn't surprise me a bit. If the OP said he didn't get a wow from a Krell I'd have called BS.
    Too much **** to list....
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  • kuntasensei
    kuntasensei Posts: 3,263
    edited February 2012
    SDA1C wrote: »
    Exactly! Not really a hard concept. Heiney was saying the same thing in his own way. 200 watts of Emo wont touch 35 watts of Onkyo. To not get a wow factor from the addition of that amp to that pre doesn't surprise me a bit. If the OP said he didn't get a wow from a Krell I'd have called BS.
    But again, that isn't what the OP said. He didn't hear an improvement, asked questions, we responded, he figured out that he had a setup problem. He was perfectly happy with the amp itself once he got it set up correctly. And that's what the forums are here for.
    Equipment list:
    Onkyo TX-NR3010 9.2 AVR
    Emotiva XPA-3 amp
    Polk RTi70 mains, CSi40 center, RTi38 surrounds, RTi28 rears and heights
    SVS 20-39CS+ subwoofer powered by Crown XLS1500
    Oppo BDP-93 Blu-ray player
    DarbeeVision DVP5000 video processor
    Epson 8500UB 1080p projector
    Elite Screens Sable 120" CineWhite screen
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  • SDA1C
    SDA1C Posts: 2,072
    edited February 2012
    kuntasensei wrote: »
    But again, that isn't what the OP said. He didn't hear an improvement, asked questions, we responded, he figured out that he had a setup problem. He was perfectly happy with the amp itself once he got it set up correctly. And that's what the forums are here for.

    Yea I gotcha. Just saw that.
    Too much **** to list....
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  • Drenis
    Drenis Posts: 2,871
    edited February 2012
    I wish there was a face palm icon because that's exactly the type of symbol that best describes this post.
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  • SDA1C
    SDA1C Posts: 2,072
    edited February 2012
    LOL. It must have something to do with 2 pages of crap since the last time I read this thread LOL.
    Too much **** to list....
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  • halo71
    halo71 Posts: 4,603
    edited February 2012
    Drenis wrote: »
    I wish there was a face palm icon because that's exactly the type of symbol that best describes this post.


    So you are wishing for that icon for your own post?

    I am thinking you meant to say this "thread" instead. :cheesygrin: Yeah I know, I'm anal....
    --Gary--
    Onkyo Integra M504, Bottlehead Foreplay III, Denon SACD, Thiel CS2.3, NHT VT-2, VT-3 and Evolution T6, Infinity RSIIIa, SDA1C and a few dozen other speakers around the house I change in and out.
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  • CoolJazz
    CoolJazz Posts: 570
    edited February 2012
    bikezappa wrote: »
    I never said I thought audio was a " completely subjective human experience" your quote from Nelson Pass said that.

    I strongly believe that quality measured data (distortion, frequency response, wattage....) of an amplifier can define the audio experience.

    I don't think the forum should be shut down.

    Anybody that's spent a lot of time with with good bench equipment and designing can tell you that you are flat wrong in believing measurements tell all!

    More generally, techs will relate that the technical measurement can tell you if something is wrong and in some cases even suggest why it sounds like it does, but to know what equipment really does right...you listen to it!

    You seem to be trying to extend the value of listening to saying that measurements are a waste of time. I've never heard a designer say that.

    CJ
    A so called science type proudly says... "I do realize that I would fool myself all the time, about listening conclusions and many other observations, if I did listen before buying. That’s why I don’t, I bought all of my current gear based on technical parameters alone, such as specs and measurements."

    More amazing Internet Science Pink Panther wisdom..."My DAC has since been upgraded from Mark Levinson to Topping."
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  • SDA1C
    SDA1C Posts: 2,072
    edited February 2012
    Toolfan66 wrote: »
    One of my favorite things I have read here in my short time is:

    Those who know know, those who don't know "don't" know they don't know..

    That is pretty good!

    I heard another version that my dad used to say..."That guy is so stupid he doesn't know he's stupid" LOL. Dad had a lot of quips like that. Such as, "Due to the outbreak of aids the employees are no longer permitted to kiss the bosses ****". I always liked that one. LOL.
    Too much **** to list....
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  • audiocr381ve
    audiocr381ve Posts: 2,588
    edited February 2012
    Toolfan66 wrote: »
    One of my favorite things I have read here in my short time is:

    Those who know know, those who don't know "don't" know they don't know..

    This silly quote deconstructs itself infinitely and lands everyone right back at square one. It suggests that a person can be all-knowing. I think we are all smart enough to admit we don't hold the keys to all truth and knowledge. Going back to the quote... maybe you do have more experience than the rest of the population but if that has made you an audio snob, you're the fool who doesn't know.
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  • Loud & Clear
    Loud & Clear Posts: 1,538
    edited February 2012
    kuntasensei wrote: »
    Loud & Clear, the OP didn't experience that at all, nor is he dissatisfied with his Emotiva amp. He merely had a setup issue, in that he needed to change the settings for his mains to full range. His problem was solved by post 20.
    And that setup issue was experienced both with his AVR and with his external amp. I'm glad he got the help and resolved his problem with forum assistance.

    Two Channel Setup:

    Speakers: Wharfedale Opus 2-3
    Integrated Amp: Krell S-300i
    DAC: Arcam irDac
    Source: iMac
    Remote Control: iPad Mini

    3.2 Home Theater Setup:

    Fronts: Klipsch RP-160M
    Center: Klipsch RP-160M
    Subwoofer: SVS PB12NSD (X 2)
    AVR: Yamaha Aventage RX-A2030
    Blu Ray: Sony BDP-S790
    TV Source: DirecTV Genie
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  • Stilly74
    Stilly74 Posts: 194
    edited February 2012
    Easy fella's I had a problem with my settings. Fixed,done.... And now I'm happy. Reciever was set up wrong. Love the new sound. Louder and much more clear.
    Yes I do think that there is most likely better sounding amp out there,but when I ask a simple question I do not need people telling me that I need a better amp.i mean if some people on here have "30 years" experience in this hobby then I think they could of answered my question rather than cutting my **** down right away.

    I think some of you are right , it maybe time to move on to a different form site. I mean look what happened when I asked a simple question--- I guess im using the "WRONG" gear. .. Maybe the question would of gotten more answers than bashing if I lied and said I was using adcom amp or something
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  • Tankman
    Tankman Posts: 419
    edited February 2012
    Stilly74.No don't leave.Your input was really good.It gets like that in here sometime.Like i said i have EMO mono blocks like them very much i do.I have had Carver in the past and like it a lot too.One day soon i am looking too get into tube amps.My Farther had tubes back in the day and thats all he would use.He use too clown me all the time about my gear saying it had that "Japanese sound"but that was just him makein fun of me.Stay around Bro!This site is really one of the better ones on the net.Just wear some hipboots when you come in here.:cool:
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  • Drenis
    Drenis Posts: 2,871
    edited February 2012
    halo71 wrote: »
    So you are wishing for that icon for your own post?

    I am thinking you meant to say this "thread" instead. :cheesygrin: Yeah I know, I'm anal....

    lol... I would have done the same thing don't worry. Not sure how I managed that but thanks for fixing that up.:redface:
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  • audiocr381ve
    audiocr381ve Posts: 2,588
    edited February 2012
    Stilly74 wrote: »
    I think some of you are right , it maybe time to move on to a different form site. I mean look what happened when I asked a simple question--- I guess im using the "WRONG" gear. .. Maybe the question would of gotten more answers than bashing if I lied and said I was using adcom amp or something

    I wouldn't leave. Even the stubborn **** guys who don't get that they make people feel inferior are still good guys. Club Polk is a very generous community. Some of the guys take things very seriously so you'll have to grow some thick skin, but all in all it's a great place to talk audio.
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  • polkfarmboy
    polkfarmboy Posts: 5,703
    edited February 2012
    Yep stick around ....... Just grow a set of humongous balls like me
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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,967
    edited February 2012
    You guys are making a mountain out of a mole hill.

    Stilly, this is the internet and tone of conversation can be easily mistaken. With that said, we like to think of this place as a bunch of audio nerds sitting on bar stools chatting like we were all buds. Even if that was a real world scenario, the conversations can get a tad....ball busting. Don't take things personal is all. I'm pretty sure if we all met at a bar, we'd all get along and have fun. Of coarse I would make Polkfarmboy buy the first 3 rounds, but hey, you get what I'm saying.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
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  • Stilly74
    Stilly74 Posts: 194
    edited February 2012
    Lasareath wrote: »
    And what will you power the 707's with?

    Hopefully not the Emotiva spa 5?

    How could someone take this any other way than someone being a dick and nothing else
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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,967
    edited February 2012
    Stilly74 wrote: »
    How could someone take this any other way than someone being a dick and nothing else

    What Sal was trying to say, and again, once you get to know personalities around here, you'll understand,was....that the 707's are in a class of speaker far above an Emotiva. In other words, to hear what that speaker is capable of, the emo won't get you all the way there. Kinda like putting fiberglass tires on a Corvette.

    We are big proponants of upgrading electronics as you climb the ladder of speakers. It wouldn't make sense to have all Classe gear running a Bose system. By the same token, you most likely won't run a pair of B&W 802D's off a 300 buck sony receiver either.

    Sal wasn't being a dick, though I can see as a new member it can be construed that way. Relax, get to know people, it's not as bad as some make it out to be.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
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  • Tankman
    Tankman Posts: 419
    edited February 2012
    Stilly74...Yeap i see your point on how he said it.Your XPA-5 is a good amp and it is at a good price that you paid.A good buy i say.I am thinking on getting that same amp for my HT setup.In one of my post on here i stated i would put my UPA-1s against a Carver or any mono block in the same class.But really as much as i like my mono blocks they are not even close to say Krells or even say a B&K amp.Have you seen some of the really highend amps? They are really nice killer amps but are very high dollar too.Thanks for sharing in here i injoyed reading you post about your system.Peace Bro,and my the power of the watts be with you.:cool:
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  • BlueFox
    BlueFox Posts: 15,251
    edited February 2012
    Hopefully not the Emotiva spa 5?

    Stilly74 wrote: »
    How could someone take this any other way than someone being a dick and nothing else

    Powering gear with your spa is not recommended.


    I went to Emo's site to verify the model number, and on the home page, next to a picture of all their gear, are these words.

    RETHINK HIGH-END

    That might be a reason why some Emo users get upset when it is pointed out the gear, while good, is around entry level. They have been fooled my marketing.
    Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.
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  • Toolfan66
    Toolfan66 Posts: 17,259
    edited February 2012
    audiocr381ve wrote: »
    This silly quote deconstructs itself infinitely and lands everyone right back at square one. It suggests that a person can be all-knowing. I think we are all smart enough to admit we don't hold the keys to all truth and knowledge. Going back to the quote... maybe you do have more experience than the rest of the population but if that has made you an audio snob, you're the fool who doesn't know.


    Someday you will understand, till then keep throwing those stones that make you feel bigger then you are as I just got a new glove to play catch with...
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