Quality banana plugs and speaker wire?

Drenis

Syndil wrote: »

certain people to avoid engaging in those topics. F1nut is at the top of that list. I received much the same welcome from him that you are receiving now. Remember, smile and nod...

Nothing wrong with the guy. hell me and him had words when I first came here.

Sometimes you have to chill out and try new things. Sometimes what you think is arrogance is someone trying to share their experiences which have been positive for them and others. The same applies to speaker cables and ANY cable for that matter. I was firm on hear say that other cables did squat. I became a believer when I actually went and upgraded myself. Now I rock a set of MIT's in my rig. Looking forward to trying a different speaker wire. Will there be a difference? Maybe. But that all depends on what my EARS hear. That's the only audience that needs to pass judgement. Cables should be the last thing to be implemented. I cheated however. But who cares?

Just my opinion of course...

tonyb

Wow, Drenis....I must have missed that you tried out the MIT's. Good on you for at least giving it a whirl and as it turned out, you are still rockin' them, congrats. Your also spot on with letting only your ears judge. Don't know how many times we say that around here but it is the only test that matters.

Drenis

tony - My system is far from high end or incorporates proper separates or key components for a 2-channel setup. I know I lack a proper external DAC. I know I lack a proper pre-amp and use a AVR as my source (regardless of pure direct mode, the DAC's are still crap). I don't NEED to buy separates to know that there are improvements to be had/made. I've read what others have to say.

I used to defend my Bose setup stating that there were no other towers on the market that could hang with my 701's... I'd be dead from all the socks I"d a chewed if I was called out on that. I am very stubborn when it comes to change and new things. Especially when I think I know whats right. Since coming here, I've learned you have to rid yourself of that train of thought and try new things. It's all about finding YOUR sound. I'm glad I lost the arrogant attitude I once had and adapted the "try new things and be open" approach.

Everything I've added to my setup or changed has made SOME improvement. The most noticeable? Speakers! I LOVE the sound of my A9's. So with that I am building the sound that I want from starting with the most important piece. Speaker wires? No silly... SPEAKERS!. Amazing how some forget that step...

As for the MIT's, yes I picked up 2 pairs of the EXp 1 IC's. Still looking for EXp 1 speaker wire but it's not needed right now. But I sure want them. There are other things that are needed over the wants.

jviss

quadzilla wrote: »

I'm not trying to put words in your mouth. I'm trying to figure out what you think does and doesn't matter. So please answer the second question, and provide reasoning for both answers.

Answer your won questions! Why don't you tell me exactly why they are better. I'm not here to be cross-examined.

thsmith

tonyb wrote: »

Wow, Drenis....I must have missed that you tried out the MIT's. Good on you for at least giving it a whirl and as it turned out, you are still rockin' them, congrats. Your also spot on with letting only your ears judge. Don't know how many times we say that around here but it is the only test that matters.

I was just about to say why is everyone trying to convince someone about cables, just ignore them but then Tonyb recognizes Drenis having tried them for himself and was a positive experience.

I guess that is just part of trying to educate people. All I can say is you will never know if you dont try for yourself.

jviss

For what it's worth, and since there has been a great deal of discussion about experience level, in particular, experience with high end audio gear, and one having had the opportunity to audition a variety of speaker cables, including high-end and exotic types, I'll offer this. How about the former Director of Acoustic Research at McIntosh, Roger Russel; and, a fellow who was one of the founders of McIntosh, and retired as its president, Gordon Gow? This page lays it out pretty well, at least one side of the discussion:

http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm

The following is a pretty scathing rebuke of high end cable, related to an interchange with the president of Transparent Audio:

http://www.vxm.com/21R.64.html

So, I guess I would have to call myself an 'objectivist.' I'd like to understand the underlying physics of the components, as well as giving them a listen. To be fair, here's a wealth of material from Cardas cable:

http://www.cardas.com/content.php?area=insights

I'm haven't read all of this yet, but I'm making an attempt.

If anyone has an info on listening tests or trials for speaker cables please post them.

Thanks,

jv

pitdogg2

Can of worms officially opened^^^^^ Fire suit ON.

you just had to go there.

BlueFox

pitdogg2 wrote: »

Can of worms officially opened^^^^^ Fire suit ON.

you just had to go there.

Because he has no idea what he is talking about. So, if he finds something on the Internet that supports his preconceived opinion then it must be true. :rolleyes:

jviss

BlueFox wrote: »

Because he has no idea what he is talking about. So, if he finds something on the Internet that supports his preconceived opinion then it must be true. :rolleyes:

That's baloney, since when is referencing an outside source not valid? I would say that these guys are at least as mush authorities on this topic as our local experts.

jviss

You know, this discussion has been interesting for me, but it appears it is serving more to upset than inform, and I genuinely feel bad about that. It wasn't my intention to stir things up, I started but just giving my view on this topic, without realizing that folks felt so strongly in opposition to that view, and took it as an affront that I expressed it here. I'm sorry for that. I think I'll go back and delete that last note with the links, as it isn't going to change any minds. If you want the info, please contact me and I'll send it along.

Edit: Well, I guess I can't delete it now, so there it is.

halo71

Not much to add here. But I can say that for years I used regular old cheap cables....Monster, Rat Shack, Home Depot etc. BUT....when Freddy here on the forum gave me a pair of MIT Teminator 6's. Even with my pretty (very) modest system, I could tell an immediate difference over what I had been using. There was more detail and the bass was better on my speakers. No matter if I had my Monitor 10's, Infinity RSIIIa's, Kef C55, Cannon TLS1232, Monitor 7, Monitor 5 or anything else in my collection playing.

Now cable burn in is a different matter to me that I am not completely sold on. I have a hard time understanding how the electrons in a copper wire align themselves without huge amounts of voltage running through them. Which doesnt happen in a regular amp to speaker set up.

But then again I trust my ears to what sounds better. And I surely don't waste time trying to defend or fight people trying to convince them of what better cables can do in their systems. To each his own....

Toolfan66

WOW!!! jviss this thread must have you drooling all over your keyboard

jviss

Toolfan66 wrote: »

WOW!!! jviss this thread must have you drooling all over your keyboard

I don't get it.

tonyb

Do you honestly think your the first one to bring up that Roger Russell article ? Your only about 472 times too late.

What is it about getting experience that you don't understand ? For every Roger Russell article there's 2 others that claim the opposite. I would imagine an educated man such as yourself knows how to use google. In the end, you won't know what to believe because of the contrasting opinions, which is why it is important for you to try yourself.

The sooner you realize that not everything is learned from reading a book/article, and that experience counts, the better off you'll be in every aspect of your life.

quadzilla

jviss wrote: »

Answer your won questions! Why don't you tell me exactly why they are better. I'm not here to be cross-examined.

Uhm. No. That's not how it works. You've made an assertion, I made a counter assertion with some supporting logic. Now either put up or shut up. You're starting to make me weary with this passive-aggressive bs.

jviss

tonyb wrote: »

Do you honestly think your the first one to bring up that Roger Russell article ? Your only about 472 times too late.

What is it about getting experience that you don't understand ? For every Roger Russell article there's 2 others that claim the opposite. I would imagine an educated man such as yourself knows how to use google. In the end, you won't know what to believe because of the contrasting opinions, which is why it is important for you to try yourself.

The sooner you realize that not everything is learned from reading a book/article, and that experience counts, the better off you'll be in every aspect of your life.

O.K., I'll take you up on that. How can I audition a pair of high end cables? I have an O.K. 2-channel listening system, in addition to the home theater.

jviss

@Quadzilla: Fine with me, I don't care for your prosecutorial approach. This is a discussion, not a grand jury.

Toolfan66

jviss wrote: »

O.K., I'll take you up on that. How can I audition a pair of high end cables? I have an O.K. 2-channel listening system, in addition to the home theater.

You open your wallet and purchase a new or used set:rolleyes:

What is your O.K. 2 channel system? It might not be worth your time and money. I believe there are cables for every level of gear. What I mean is there is no way I would buy a set of MIT shotguns for a Yamaha RXV-863 receiver with some TSI speakers, I might go for some bluejeans/signals/ and maybe some AudioQuest type 4 speaker cables/wire.

thsmith

Yawn! Belly is full and this is boring. You are wasting your time with this guy.

quadzilla

jviss wrote: »

@Quadzilla: Fine with me, I don't care for your prosecutorial approach. This is a discussion, not a grand jury.

Ah, I believe I understand now. You claim knowledge, but then go all passive-aggressive if anyone challenges you to explain your claims. One can only speculate as to why, instead of actually responding to attempts to engage you in a discussion regarding your claims, you instead attempt to assume the role of the poor, persecuted, individual that's really just trying to have an honest "discussion". Tracy is right. You're a waste of time.

jviss

quadzilla wrote: »

Ah, I believe I understand now. You claim knowledge, but then go all passive-aggressive if anyone challenges you to explain your claims. One can only speculate as to why, instead of actually responding to attempts to engage you in a discussion regarding your claims, you instead attempt to assume the role of the poor, persecuted, individual that's really just trying to have an honest "discussion". Tracy is right. You're a waste of time.

That's quite twisted. I made an assertion about what I think is important, I don't feel any obligation to refute every assertion you've made. If you think things like nonlinear inter-strand conduction effects are important, then explain why, don't task me to refute those claims, or "please answer the second question, and provide reasoning for both answers." I said I don't think they're important, I think the only important consideration is conductance.

quadzilla

jviss wrote: »

That's quite twisted. I made an assertion about what I think is important, I don't feel any obligation to refute every assertion you've made. If you think things like nonlinear inter-strand conduction effects are important, then explain why, don't task me to refute those claims, or "please answer the second question, and provide reasoning for both answers." I said I don't think they're important, I think the only important consideration is conductance.

I already explained why I believe they matter in a previous post. To you. The request to provide something explaining why you feel such effects don't matter is not prosecutorial, or even adversarial. It's simply a request to get you to explain why you think they don't matter, why only the resistive element is worthy of consideration. If you can't handle being asked why you think a certain way, well, I think you are in for a most unhappy life unless you can get a job as a dictator somewhere. Most other people, at least occasionally, get asked questions about their statements. Especially when those statement are purported to be facts. And calling you out on what appears, at least on its face, to be a series of passive-aggressive responses is not twisted. It's simply pointing out the obvious.

decal

Give it up dude, it's not worth the effort. You can't win with these guys. It's like a game of kill the guy with the ball !!!!

jbooker82

BlueFox wrote: »

Because he has no idea what he is talking about. So, if he finds something on the Internet that supports his preconceived opinion then it must be true. :rolleyes:

Yep his mind was made up. Then all he has to do is seach the internet for somthing that some one said, wich supports his oppinion.

Penn and Tellers Bull **** (TV Show on Showtime) deal with is on a regular basis

tonyb

jviss wrote: »

O.K., I'll take you up on that. How can I audition a pair of high end cables? I have an O.K. 2-channel listening system, in addition to the home theater.

See post #121

Drenis

jviss = xcapri? :razz:

audiocr381ve

I'm interested in what it takes to hear a difference. Rather than stone the guy why don't all of you who oppose his theories recommend some interconnects or cables he should purchase? Seriously, what kind of cables could you recommend him (quad/f1/tony). I'm trying to be helpful here, honestly.

Jviss, your argument is one sided. You can't use articles and your experience as an EE to argue against something you've never tried in this context. It might be a really fun experiment for you to try at a minimal loss. Buy some of the cables/interconnects that these guys recommend for your system and if they don't live up to the hype, sell em' here (after 100 posts of course! :P )

BlueFox

audiocr381ve wrote: »

I'm interested in what it takes to hear a difference. Rather than stone the guy why don't all of you who oppose his theories recommend some interconnects or cables he should purchase? Seriously, what kind of cables could you recommend him (quad/f1/tony). I'm trying to be helpful here, honestly.

I can't speak for anyone else, but over the last three years for speaker wires I have followed this path. Each step has been an improvement, and has amazed me how much music I have been able to get from my gear.

12 gauge stranded to

http://shop.mapleshadestore.com/Double-Helix-Speaker-Cable-with-PLUS-Upgrade/productinfo/DHELIX-PL/

to

http://www.omegamikro.com/Speaker_cable_I.html

to

http://www.omegamikro.com/Speaker_Cable_V.html

to my current speaker cables

http://www.musicdirect.com/p-40327-shunyata-anaconda-zitron-speaker-cables-pr.aspx

For analog interconnects I went from

http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=KKHEBAL

to

http://www.mitcables.com/available-online/shotgun-s1.3-balanced-interconnect.html

For power cords I went from stock to

http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PGAC14SE for the SACD, CIAAudio power supply for Wadia, and preamp

For the amps I went from stock to

http://www.musicdirect.com/p-9670-shunyata-venom-3-power-cable.aspx with 20 amp connector

to

http://www.thecableco.com/Product/Python-CX with 20 amp connector

For digital cables I went from the stock Wadia to

http://shop.mapleshadestore.com/Omega-Mikro-Planar-Digital-Zephyr/productinfo/ZEPHYR/

to

http://www.mitcables.com/available-in-stores/audio-interconnects/magnum-digital-interconnect.html


In addition to cables, another way to improve the sound is to eliminate vibration from your gear. I have added these brass footers to everything, and with each addition the sound just gets better.

http://shop.mapleshadestore.com/The-Micropoint-Heavyfoot-set-of-three/productinfo/MPHFSET/



The point here is that all of this has made a difference. Yet some will say, without ever trying any of this, that there is no improvement, and I am imagining everything. Well, I always have had an over active imagination. :cool:

quadzilla

audiocr381ve wrote: »

I'm interested in what it takes to hear a difference. Rather than stone the guy why don't all of you who oppose his theories recommend some interconnects or cables he should purchase? Seriously, what kind of cables could you recommend him (quad/f1/tony). I'm trying to be helpful here, honestly.

Jviss, your argument is one sided. You can't use articles and your experience as an EE to argue against something you've never tried in this context. It might be a really fun experiment for you to try at a minimal loss. Buy some of the cables/interconnects that these guys recommend for your system and if they don't live up to the hype, sell em' here (after 100 posts of course! :P )

I disagree that I'm stoning this guy. He made claims and I asked him why he believes what he believes. I even went to the trouble of explaining why I hold the views I do. The best he could do was cite his "instinct" regarding a question I asked him, while ignoring everything else. For someone who claims to be a critical thinker, one might hope that a response would have something better to back it up than instinct. I even told him how I made my speaker cables for 80 bucks, which, really, in the world of cables is on the lower end of the scale by far. As far as an IC, and the IC would have to be replaced as well, since I'd guess he's using ratshack or similar extremely low grade ICs, then I'd start here http://www.musicdirect.com/p-60731-cardas-microtwin-interconnects-pr.aspx. That's about as far down the chain that I'd go to hear a distinct difference with whatever he's got now. And when I say distinct, I mean an unmistakable difference, not a "yeah, maybe it's a bit better, but I can't really tell" difference. For a pre-built speaker cable, then http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=CRTWSP. Those are Cardas' entry level cables, but are still far and away better than anything you can pick up at Fry's, or even Best Buy (sorry audioquest guys). And yes, I like Cardas better than MIT or anything else I've heard. Both could probably be picked up used for 1/4-1/2 of the new price.

quadzilla

double post....