So the question is , How can a HDMI cable make a sonic Improvement?

13

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  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 25,622
    edited May 2011
    never mind just not worth it
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  • jaritta
    jaritta Posts: 277
    edited May 2011
    Digital video,

    I have been on both sides of the arguement. At first i didnt think there was any difference between wire.....wire is wire right? I could never afford many of these audio quest cables or other expensive cables. I even went as far to buy into the hype that you could use coat hangers and get great signal.

    I then accepted a job with a custom audio video company....with an extreme emphisis on audio, we are a 2 ch speicalist, I now have access to equipment and cables that i would never be able to afford.....or justify buying.

    I can tell you that without a doubt there is a difference between cables, that being said there is a lot of snake oil salesmen out there that will tell you anything to make a sale.

    I used some monoprice speaker wire 14awg for connecting some kef refrence to 2 manley neo-classic amplifier....ok sound, and as a novice i thought it wasnt bad, then i swapped the cables out for some analysis pluss cables.....expensive, i beleive that they are anywhere from 300 to 700 for a stero set of cables, and to my ear there is a huge difference in the clairity of sound.
    Harman kardon signature 2.1 amp
    Denon 3312
    Epson 8700ub
    Chief mount
    Screen Innovations Performance Series 110in
    Kef q 500 (RL)
    Kef q 200 (C)
    Kef q 800 (Rear RL)
    REL T7 (SUB)
    mx 450 remote
    Sonos-Amp, Connect, Play5
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  • jaritta
    jaritta Posts: 277
    edited May 2011
    Sorry i wanted to continue my post. I dont beleive monoprice cable is bad stuff, i am useing it in my current ht setup, but does it compair to the analysis pluss cable for 2 ch stero....not even close.

    Is the analysis plus cable practical for me...nope but for my boss, who is indapendently welthy and wants the best quality music for his system, to him it is.

    If you dont like it dont buy it....if enough people feel the same way the high priced cables will go away. But as long as there are people willing to pay for the product the company will stay in business. period.
    Harman kardon signature 2.1 amp
    Denon 3312
    Epson 8700ub
    Chief mount
    Screen Innovations Performance Series 110in
    Kef q 500 (RL)
    Kef q 200 (C)
    Kef q 800 (Rear RL)
    REL T7 (SUB)
    mx 450 remote
    Sonos-Amp, Connect, Play5
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,199
    edited May 2011
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    never mind just not worth it

    See you finaly get it. Let the troll fondle himself in the corner.....don't help him.
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • cnh
    cnh Posts: 13,284
    edited May 2011
    How did we manage to turn this into yet 'another' cable debate thread? The bane of CP!

    Let's move on already, we've been there done that.

    cnh
    Currently orbiting Bowie's Blackstar.!

    Polk Lsi-7s, Def Tech 8" sub, HK 3490, HK HD 990 (CDP/DAC), AKG Q701s
    [sig. changed on a monthly basis as I rotate in and out of my stash]
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  • digitalvideo
    digitalvideo Posts: 983
    edited May 2011
    jaritta thanks for taking the time to explain your situation.

    Can you explain in detail the best you can about the differences in sound between wires and what you heard?

    I looked at the prices at Analysis Plus' website, they aren't outrageous, they're a little more reasonable than some other companies but still expensive. It seems that Analysis Plus is more for guitar players for stage and studio and not for home theater movies.
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  • halo71
    halo71 Posts: 4,604
    edited May 2011
    halo71 wrote: »
    DV....please list your audio set up for us.

    Aww...what the hell I will ask one more time. Trolls can be entertaining at times. :tongue:
    --Gary--
    Onkyo Integra M504, Bottlehead Foreplay III, Denon SACD, Thiel CS2.3, NHT VT-2, VT-3 and Evolution T6, Infinity RSIIIa, SDA1C and a few dozen other speakers around the house I change in and out.
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  • jaritta
    jaritta Posts: 277
    edited May 2011
    The best way i can explain it, is the definition and clairity of sound. The monoprice cables was like i was listening to a stero system... and with the componants that i listed...a damn good one. ( i also got to listen to anthany gallo accoustics nucules about 6k speakers) and they sounded like a stero system. With the analysis plus cables i could close my eyes and it was like the artist was singing infront of me.

    And on a side note, not all cd players are the same in a audio setup. Even though thoreticly they just send 1&0's right ;)
    Harman kardon signature 2.1 amp
    Denon 3312
    Epson 8700ub
    Chief mount
    Screen Innovations Performance Series 110in
    Kef q 500 (RL)
    Kef q 200 (C)
    Kef q 800 (Rear RL)
    REL T7 (SUB)
    mx 450 remote
    Sonos-Amp, Connect, Play5
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  • TouchOfEvil
    TouchOfEvil Posts: 967
    edited May 2011
    I have learned something new today. DV is one funny troll.
    Living Room Rig:D
    Rotel RSP-1069/Rotel RMB-1095/Rotel-1072/Polk lsI15's W/modded xoverW/DBsubs/Polk LsiC/lsI7's/Klipsch sub-12"the weak link"/DLP Mitsubishi 65"
    Xbox360/PS3/WII
    M.Br. setup:)
    Emotiva MMC-1/Rotel RMB-1075/Polk BlackStone TL350's/Velodyne SPL1000/Samsung 51" Plasma
    Computer Rig:
    Rotel RB1050/Tannoy DC4's/Klipsch RW-10d/ImodIpod/HK AVR230 for now....
    Headphones-Ultrasone-HFI780's w/LittleDot MK Vamp Portables Panasonic HJE-900's
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  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,201
    edited May 2011
    jaritta wrote: »
    Mantis,

    Have you heard any analysis plus cable? My boss is an audiophile and loves the stuff.....He also loves tubes and LP. How do the analysis plus cables compair to the audio quest cables???

    I own the Theater 2's as seen in the pic's . I really like their cables. Unfortunately for me I only own them. Compared to Audioquest I think they do very well. I have had only 2 different speakers connected to them in VS battles with Audioquest which was FLX14-2 bulk wire terminated in spades or Bananas and Sometimes like the the Audioquest and sometimes I enjoy the Theater 2's.
    It's a well balanced solid speaker wire with good bass , nice mid range detail and crystal clear highs. Dave Sheppard turned me on to it , he wired his entire system with it and loves it. You should ask him as he has a lot more of it then I.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
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  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,201
    edited May 2011
    polkatese wrote: »
    Nice pics and review Dan! How have you been?

    Pretty good thank you. How have you been? It's been awhile bro.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
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  • polkatese
    polkatese Posts: 6,767
    edited May 2011
    Indeed, I have lots more hair when I started frequented this place in 02, thanks to you!

    I kid of course. Monster, Signal, DH Plus, Transparent, MIT..been a journey. Now, give me back my iPad.
    I am sorry, I have no opinion on the matter. I am sure you do. So, don't mind me, I just want to talk audio and pie.
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  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,201
    edited May 2011
    I find it unbelievable that my thread turned into this mess of wire does or doesn't make a difference and is it worth spending any kind of money on cables.
    I just wanted to share my experience with everyone which I had a great time.

    DV I'm only going to ask you once , could you please stop posting on my thread? I believe you made your point 100 times over. If you continue to ruin my thread I'm gong to report you. Please move on and read and write about stuff you enjoy.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
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  • Toolfan66
    Toolfan66 Posts: 17,322
    edited May 2011
    DV=POS TROLL



    Nice write up Dan, Can I have your job??? LOL!!!
    Polk Audio SDA 2.3tl Fully Hot Rodded. 😎

    SVS SB16 X2

    Cary SLP-05/Ultimate Upgrade.
    Cary SA-500.1 ES Amps
    Cary DMS 800PV Network
    OPPO UDP 205/ModWright Modification
    VPI Scout TT / Dynavector 20x2
    Jolida JD9 Fully Modified

    VPI MW-1 Cyclone RCM

    MIT Shotgun 3 cables throughout / Except TT, and PC’s
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  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,201
    edited May 2011
    TOOLFORLIFEFAN wrote: »
    DV=POS TROLL



    Nice write up Dan, Can I have your job??? LOL!!!

    Absolutely with the right amount of training and hard work , you 2 can do what I do. It's a great field especially if you love it like I do. I can't even imagine myself doing anything else. I completely love what I do for a living.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
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  • cstmar01
    cstmar01 Posts: 4,424
    edited May 2011
    heiney9 wrote: »
    See you finaly get it. Let the troll fondle himself in the corner.....don't help him.

    not the first time DV has done something stupid. He likes to also post the same thing in a bunch of different forums as it has been found before by I think Cheddar.

    All I can say is Dan thanks for doing the review. Gives me something to try out after I get done getting the Mythos in my HT lol.
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,693
    edited May 2011
    Originally Posted by digitalvideo
    I'll offer anyone a challenge to mail me any cables they claim make a difference, I'll pay for the postage and I'll do the testing and make all the videos for proof, I doubt anyone who claims cables make a big difference will man up to this challenge, they'll say: "Ummm ahhhh ummm ahhh noo! you buy the cables yourself." That's because you're not secure enough with your claims to man up to this challenge so you'll spin it back onto me and demand I buy the cables that you claim make a difference. Nice try, I threw out the challenge first, mail me the cables or STFU!

    Hello!

    http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=115800
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • digitalvideo
    digitalvideo Posts: 983
    edited May 2011
    My HT setup:

    Pioneer Elite Kuro PRO-151FD plasma
    Pioneer Elite SC07 reciever
    Previously Pioneer Elite SC05 (Sold)
    Pioneer Elite BDP-23FD bd player
    Carver/Sunfire Cinema Grand Signature 400 Seven
    Definitive Technology Mythos ST
    SVS PB12 Ultra
    SVS PB12 Ultra

    Belden/Bluejeans Series F2 and FE HDMI
    Belden/Bluejeans 5T00UP

    So send your cables my way and I'll test them out.
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  • kawizx9r
    kawizx9r Posts: 5,150
    edited May 2011
    Beautiful setup Dan, I'm jealous :tongue:

    Interesting to hear that you saw/heard a difference in HDMI cables. I've yet to build another HT setup but I now know what HDMI cables to look at....not very expensive either.

    And to DV, where do you live? Since we obviously can't trust to send you cables to try out, I'm sure you can meet someone that's somewhat local to you.

    I went from Signal Cable I's and II's to Audioquest Sidewinder's to MIT Shotgun S3's and always heard a difference. I'm using Ben's Silver IC's as well as Silver Sonnet II's and they're not that far back a step from the S3's but sure as hell better than what you're running. They're not ridiculously expensive either.

    Buy a pair, used. If you don't like them, you can sell them for as much as you paid. That's the beauty of most cables when you buy them used.
    Truck setup
    Alpine 9856
    Phoenix Gold RSD65CS

    For Sale
    Polk SR6500
    Polk SR5250
    Polk SR104


    heiney9 wrote: »
    Any clue how to use the internet? Found it in about 10 sec.
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,199
    edited May 2011
    F1nut wrote: »
    Hello!

    http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=115800

    Ya see Jesse he doesn't really want to test different cables, he just wants to flap his yap and ask people to do things out of the norm..........like send a stranger gear.

    If he was really, really genuine he'd jump on it.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • Toolfan66
    Toolfan66 Posts: 17,322
    edited May 2011
    I bet when you posted this a little juice ran down your leg.


    digitalvideo wrote: »
    My HT setup:

    Pioneer Elite Kuro PRO-151FD plasma
    Pioneer Elite SC07 reciever
    Previously Pioneer Elite SC05 (Sold)
    Pioneer Elite BDP-23FD bd player
    Carver/Sunfire Cinema Grand Signature 400 Seven
    Definitive Technology Mythos ST
    SVS PB12 Ultra
    SVS PB12 Ultra

    Belden/Bluejeans Series F2 and FE HDMI
    Belden/Bluejeans 5T00UP

    So send your cables my way and I'll test them out.
    Polk Audio SDA 2.3tl Fully Hot Rodded. 😎

    SVS SB16 X2

    Cary SLP-05/Ultimate Upgrade.
    Cary SA-500.1 ES Amps
    Cary DMS 800PV Network
    OPPO UDP 205/ModWright Modification
    VPI Scout TT / Dynavector 20x2
    Jolida JD9 Fully Modified

    VPI MW-1 Cyclone RCM

    MIT Shotgun 3 cables throughout / Except TT, and PC’s
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  • bobman1235
    bobman1235 Posts: 10,822
    edited May 2011
    I've come to accept, in my time here, that there may be "unmeasurable" differences in a lot of analog cables. I can't tell someone what they do or do not hear, and I certainly can't afford the types of systems that would potentially benefit from these cable tweaks, so I have to take it on faith that maybe some people hear things, and maybe the human ear is not perfectly modeled by, say, what you see on an oscilloscope.

    THAT BEING SAID. A digital cable I have a much harder time taking on faith, because the information it passes IS able to be perfectly modeled. Those ones and zeroes that everyone mentions... it would be almost trivial for someone to capture the bitstream from one cable vs another, and compare the two. Take into account anything you want. Talk about jitter. At the end of the day, you can PERFECTLY represent the bits taht are going into your DAC or receiver or pre/pro. And if those bits are different with one cable vs another, you can make an argument for sound difference, but if they're identical, then the processor will output the same stuff.

    I'm not saying that I, or anyone else that I know, has done this experiment. I'm just saying it's doable, and it would be conclusive.
    If you will it, dude, it is no dream.
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,693
    edited May 2011
    heiney9 wrote: »
    Ya see Jesse he doesn't really want to test different cables, he just wants to flap his yap and ask people to do things out of the norm..........like send a stranger gear.

    If he was really, really genuine he'd jump on it.

    H9

    Agreed. It's a shame when someone doesn't want to expand their horizons.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • digitalvideo
    digitalvideo Posts: 983
    edited May 2011
    Your welcome to send me some of your cables, I'll test them out in my system so I can expand my horizons.

    Your response: "Well ahhh umm I don't trust you with those cables."

    Which basically means = You know you can't back up your claims about these cables so divert it back onto me and attack me like a child. I doubt you for the manhood to lend me those cables. :smile:
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  • TouchOfEvil
    TouchOfEvil Posts: 967
    edited May 2011
    F1nut wrote: »
    Hello!

    http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=115800
    digitalvideo wrote: »
    Your welcome to send me some of your cables, I'll test them out in my system so I can expand my horizons.

    Your response: "Well ahhh umm I don't trust you with those cables."

    Which basically means = You know you can't back up your claims about these cables so divert it back onto me and attack me like a child. I doubt you for the manhood to lend me those cables. :smile:

    You have a link to a thread allowing members to try out cables. It doesn't get much easier.
    Living Room Rig:D
    Rotel RSP-1069/Rotel RMB-1095/Rotel-1072/Polk lsI15's W/modded xoverW/DBsubs/Polk LsiC/lsI7's/Klipsch sub-12"the weak link"/DLP Mitsubishi 65"
    Xbox360/PS3/WII
    M.Br. setup:)
    Emotiva MMC-1/Rotel RMB-1075/Polk BlackStone TL350's/Velodyne SPL1000/Samsung 51" Plasma
    Computer Rig:
    Rotel RB1050/Tannoy DC4's/Klipsch RW-10d/ImodIpod/HK AVR230 for now....
    Headphones-Ultrasone-HFI780's w/LittleDot MK Vamp Portables Panasonic HJE-900's
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,693
    edited May 2011
    digitalvideo wrote: »
    Your welcome to send me some of your cables, I'll test them out in my system so I can expand my horizons.

    Your response: "Well ahhh umm I don't trust you with those cables."

    Which basically means = You know you can't back up your claims about these cables so divert it back onto me and attack me like a child. I doubt you for the manhood to lend me those cables. :smile:

    Had you bothered to click on the link you wouild have found that it is a free cable demo/review program featuring some very nice cables graciously donated by MIT.

    BTW, it is you're as in you are, not your.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • headrott
    headrott Posts: 5,496
    edited May 2011
    F1nut wrote: »
    Had you bothered to click on the link you wouild have found that it is a free cable demo/review program featuring some very nice cables graciously donated by MIT.

    BTW, it is you're as in you are, not your.

    Right Jesse. As proof he has not clicked on the link, DV might have brought up the fact that there is no HDMI cable included in the demo. Needless to say, DV has not brought that fact up which leads me to my conclusion. But, at least DV could try some great cables for the audio part of his home theatre to help make up his mind about that portion of the "discussion". Come on DV. Get a move on! I want to see your name on that MIT cable list! Thank you!:smile:

    Greg
    Relayer-Big-O-Poster.jpg
    Taken from a recent Audioholics reply regarding "Club Polk" and Polk speakers:
    "I'm yet to hear a Polk speaker that merits more than a sentence and 60 seconds discussion." :\
    My response is: If you need 60 seconds to respond in one sentence, you probably should't be evaluating Polk speakers.....

    "Green leaves reveal the heart spoken Khatru"- Jon Anderson

    "Have A Little Faith! And Everything You'll Face, Will Jump From Out Right On Into Place! Yeah! Take A Little Time! And Everything You'll Find, Will Move From Gloom Right On Into Shine!"- Arthur Lee
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  • Toolfan66
    Toolfan66 Posts: 17,322
    edited May 2011
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydWMY8cYPUU


    I poo in my blue
    Polk Audio SDA 2.3tl Fully Hot Rodded. 😎

    SVS SB16 X2

    Cary SLP-05/Ultimate Upgrade.
    Cary SA-500.1 ES Amps
    Cary DMS 800PV Network
    OPPO UDP 205/ModWright Modification
    VPI Scout TT / Dynavector 20x2
    Jolida JD9 Fully Modified

    VPI MW-1 Cyclone RCM

    MIT Shotgun 3 cables throughout / Except TT, and PC’s
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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,986
    edited May 2011
    I have a better idea, DV can send anyone of us his Belden cables, and we will send him a spool of Home Depot 14 ga. and some Rat shack IC's, and he can determine if even his Belden is worth it, since he claims cables won't matter. I'm guessing there wouldn't be much of a difference if any between the two.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
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  • BlueFox
    BlueFox Posts: 15,251
    edited May 2011
    tonyb wrote: »
    I have a better idea, DV can send anyone of us his Belden cables, and we will send him a spool of Home Depot 14 ga. and some Rat shack IC's, and he can determine if even his Belden is worth it, since he claims cables won't matter. I'm guessing there wouldn't be much of a difference if any between the two.

    I have an even better idea. DV can send anyone his plasma TV, along with his cable, and they can try their HDMI cable on it. :wink:

    Then he can send his audio gear, along with his cheap-**** cables, to others, and they can evaluate his gear.
    Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.
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