Holy Grail

inspiredsports

heiney9 wrote: »

I read it somewhere, but I can't find the link. It's simple and IIRC, you high temp. epoxy of some sort, nothing special as far as adhesive. Just run a small bead at the base of the glass and micanol base.

H9

I found an older thread in the Klipsch forum that makes a strong case for using standard 5-minute epoxy or JB Weld when re-glueing tube bases: http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/p/126451/1278791.aspx

I've been on the lookout for these Telefunken 5965's for a while and probably paid too much, but now they're mine! . . . http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&rt=nc&nma=true&_rdc=1&item=130526403582&si=b4VjS0N2MrBEFYz%252BkzHGWeGbpU8%253D&viewitem=. I'll update when they arrive.

heiney9

I was watching those too. Not a bad price. Let me know how they work out in your rig.

H9

inspiredsports

heiney9 wrote: »

I was watching those too. Not a bad price. Let me know how they work out in your rig.

H9

I guess he had 2 pairs. I saved them as a "watch" Sunday morning and they sold immediately for $139 + $10 S&H. When he listed more later that afternoon with free shipping, I figured I'd better not wait and I snagged them.

The insanity is that my favorite tubes to date for the 5965 spots in my CJ PV-5 (and I have about 20 nice pairs I've auditioned) have been low to moderately priced NOS Westinghouse, RCA, and Sylvania's.

I got shipping confirmation this morning so I'll soon know if these were worth it. I've honestly never had a bad Telefunken, and even if they sound the same as my favorite Sylvania Gold-Pins, the 10,000 hour heater life automatically makes the Telefunken's a no-brainer.

heiney9

I've only tried a couple other 5965's but these the Tele's are special. Ironically, since I moved into a new house I haven't been using them until I have a chance to get my room treatments set.

Telefunken's are my favorite tube manufacturer for just about everything I own. Valvo Hamburg and TFK's. They do tend to be more neutral than most tubes, that's probably why I like them so much. The 5965's have HUGE bass so they sort of break the neutral streak for TFK's, but it's not overdone at all........best way I can describe it is the 5965's are like Bonzo's drum sound, big and forceful compared to your average drummer which would be the average tube.

H9

H9

inspiredsports

heiney9 wrote: »

. . . the 5965's have HUGE bass so they sort of break the neutral streak for TFK's, but it's not overdone at all........best way I can describe it is the 5965's are like Bonzo's drum sound, big and forceful compared to your average drummer which would be the average tube.

H9

That's because he used those monster sticks, 5B's or even heavier custom tree branches I think!

Speaking of; John Bonham's Date of birth was May 31, 1948. He would have turned 63 today.

HAPPY BIRTHDAY BONZO !!

audio_alan

D'oh! I just realized that an auction I recently won was for 5814/12AU7 tubes, and not 12AT7's. I'm not sure how I missed that! :redface:

Has anyone tried running the much lower gain 12AU7's in their Dared? Is it not worth the risk? On the bright side, at least I paid less than $15 total for the 4 of them, so I'm not out much if I can't use them...

heiney9

Not worth the risk, IMO.

The 12AT7 is a high-frequency twin triode in a small 9-pin miniature glass package. This tube has a mu factor of 60, as compared to the higher gain 12AX7 with a factor of 100, and the 12AU7, with a mu of only 20. As you can see, it shares similar pin connections with it's cousins, but these tubes are not interchangeable. The 12AT7 is found in many high fidelity applications, as each triode section in normal use operates as a class A amplifier. They also turn up in line and microphone preamplifiers, musical instrument amps, and vacuum tube equipped recording equipment. By their design, they are inherently low noise, making them a good choice for these applications.

I know it seems weird that a 12AU7 equivalent can be subed for both, but not the other way around. For the minimal cost you have in the 12AU7's I wouldn't risk damaging the Dared.

H9

audio_alan

Thanks for the response, H9. Yeah, I was thinking it's probably not worth the risk either. I might just try to flip them on Ebay to get my money back. If not, at least it was only $15. A cheap lesson in paying closer attention to model numbers...

audio_alan

Are these the right Valvo's that you guys like?

http://cgi.ebay.com/2-Tube-Valvo-Philips-Mullard-ECC81-12At7-Tube-ECC-81-6-/270759264580?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3f0a828144

What's a fair price for them? Sounds like they're not exactly "new" though.

Thanks!

heiney9

audio_alan wrote: »

Are these the right Valvo's that you guys like?

http://cgi.ebay.com/2-Tube-Valvo-Philips-Mullard-ECC81-12At7-Tube-ECC-81-6-/270759264580?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3f0a828144

What's a fair price for them? Sounds like they're not exactly "new" though.

Thanks!

Hard to say without the tube codes, he states they are Mullards in the ad, if so, they are probably still nice tubes, but not like the ones made in Hamburg. You really need the tube codes to determine origin, age, etc.

As far as price, depends on which Mullard made tubes they are. Earlier being worth more or certain designations being worth more......again the tube codes will tell you what these are.

As they are listed they are reasonable, except the shipping. I only tend to buy the harder to find tubes from over seas because the common tubes can be found here in the US for less shipping cost.

You will pay A LOT for NOS Valvo's, so most you find will be used. All my Valvo's are used and I've never had an issue. You could buy 3 pairs of used Valvo's for the cost of a truly NOS pair. These signal tubes last forever so buying used is the way to go, IMO.

H9

heiney9

If you enlarge the photo you can make out a very faint partial tube code in the left tube towards the left bottom. Can't read it though. In the right tube you can see part of the etched code on the back side, can't read it. It appears on the left tube there might be an equal sign = with a diagonal line / through it. That would indicate Siemens made in Munich. So not a Mullard made tube if that's the case. Also realize Mullard had several different tube plants (Blackburn, Sittard, Eindhoven, etc). So again without the codes you don't know what you have.

I don't buy Valvo tubes without the etched codes because the only true Valvo produced tube was made in Hamburg and there just aren't that many of them compared to all the rest.

H9

heiney9

It appears to be this:

ECC 81

Code: VF1 ≠ Siemens & Halske

Characteristics:

- plate with 1 side hole

- ring getter with long arm

Comment:

Very common type. Made in Munich, Germany

audio_alan

Thanks for the quick responses, H9! Yeah, I was thinking you were partial to the Hamburg variation... which it appears that these aren't. The shipping definitely kicks up the price on that set.

I appreciate you sharing your knowledge about tubes. It can be a bit confusing with all the minor variations, misinformation posted in the auctions, and plain omission of data because they don't know or don't want to point it out (or are purposefully trying to make you think it's one of the better or more sought-after models).

I might pass on them since I'm starting to get quite a stash of signal tubes already. I wouldn't mind getting a few more old Brimar rectifiers though, or one really nice set of signal tubes...

heiney9

A nice tube, but you can find the same tube w/o having to pay $15 from Germany. It's the most common ECC81 produced.

audio_alan

heiney9 wrote: »

...

Very common type. Made in Munich, Germany

Seeing that "Very common" comment, I'm definitely going to pass. I'm sure just because they're Valvo's will make the price spike regardless. I'd rather hold out for a more special pair. Thanks again!

heiney9

Alan, the Hamburg tubes are the special ones to me. Keep looking, most likely you'll get them from overseas. If you are diligent they aren't that expensive.

http://cgi.ebay.com/2-VALVO-ECC81-12AT7-1962-HAMBURG-GERMANY-TESTED-/390319550694?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item5ae0dbb0e6

Here's a pair. I'd email him for the tube codes just to verify.

heiney9

audio_alan wrote: »

Seeing that "Very common" comment, I'm definitely going to pass. I'm sure just because they're Valvo's will make the price spike regardless. I'd rather hold out for a more special pair. Thanks again!

Don't get the wrong idea, the Valvo labeled Seimens are very good tubes still. Just know what you are getting so you don't get something you already have just with a different label on it.

H9

audio_alan

heiney9 wrote: »

Don't get the wrong idea, the Valvo labeled Seimens are very good tubes still. Just know what you are getting so you don't get something you already have just with a different label on it.

H9

Ok, thanks for the clarification. What the heck. I'll watch them and see what happens. If they don't go too crazy, maybe I'll throw down a bid.

Now if only I could find some long plate Tele's that I don't need to take out a second mortgage on my house to buy them... :rolleyes: :biggrin:

heiney9

On the 5965 Long Plate Tele's, I looked for over a year to find a pair. They don't come up too often. I did find a source who lists them in Vietnam for $110/matched pair NOS in boxes. I haven't verified he actually has them though.

H9

audio_alan

heiney9 wrote: »

Alan, the Hamburg tubes are the special ones to me. Keep looking, most likely you'll get them from overseas. If you are diligent they aren't that expensive.

http://cgi.ebay.com/2-VALVO-ECC81-12AT7-1962-HAMBURG-GERMANY-TESTED-/390319550694?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item5ae0dbb0e6

Here's a pair. I'd email him for the tube codes just to verify.

Great, thanks for the link. I'll shoot a message off to him to get the codes.

heiney9 wrote: »

On the 5965 Long Plate Tele's, I looked for over a year to find a pair. They don't come up too often. I did find a source who lists them in Vietnam for $110/matched pair NOS in boxes. I haven't verified he actually has them though.

H9

$110 sounds like a good price. I'm sure I've seen them go for much more than that on ebay.

audio_alan

heiney9 wrote: »

Alan, the Hamburg tubes are the special ones to me. Keep looking, most likely you'll get them from overseas. If you are diligent they aren't that expensive.

http://cgi.ebay.com/2-VALVO-ECC81-12AT7-1962-HAMBURG-GERMANY-TESTED-/390319550694?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item5ae0dbb0e6

Here's a pair. I'd email him for the tube codes just to verify.

I asked him about any additional codes and he said:

"The additional numbers on the tubes are as follows, on the top one is marked 143 the other 130. On the bottom each has a 5 embossed in the glass in the gap between the pins. in the center of each they are marked VF2 over D1B inside the pins."

Does that help verify that they are indeed Hamburg Valvos?

Thanks!

heiney9

Do you know if they have a hole in the side of the plate? Long arm ring getter? They are Hamburg and, because the VF2 D1B is between the pins on the base they are early, 1961.

VF = ECC81
2 = 2nd incarnation
D = Hamburg production
1 = 1961
B = Feb

I'd say a great price for some nice Valvo Hamburg tubes.

H9

heiney9

Doesn't look like there is a hole in the side plates, so that's good. I'm not sure what your max bid is, but these are earlier Valvo's and I wouldn't hesitate to pay $60-70 for them if it came down to a bidding war.

I have just about every designation Valvo Hamburg tube produced. I have 2 pairs of the 6201 gold pins but they are the 2 mica version. I don't have the 6201 3 mica pinched waist tube, too damn expensive. I even have the earliest pair of ECC81's made, which are the coin base made in 1952.

H9

audio_alan

The breakdown of what all the numbers/letters means really helps. Thanks! I haven't placed a bid yet, but I definitely will. Now I just need to decide the max I'll pay for them... hmmmm

audio_alan

audio_alan wrote: »

The breakdown of what all the numbers/letters means really helps. Thanks! I haven't placed a bid yet, but I definitely will. Now I just need to decide the max I'll pay for them... hmmmm

Score!!! :biggrin:

heiney9

Nice snag!!! Those should be great sounding tubes. Not sure what type of sound you are looking for, but Valvo Hamburg are very neutral and have a huge soundstage in general. The highs sparkle a little bit too, bass is tight and not overdone. I refer to them as best combo of solid state and tubes.

Let me know what you think of them if they are your first pair of Valvo Hamburg's.

H9

Outfitter03

Here are some pictures of my Dared that was represented as 2009 model when purchased used.

heiney9

See pics here:

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1598614&postcount=73

H9

audio_alan

Keiko wrote: »

Congrats, bro. I've been digging my new GB 6201s for the past couple days. Nice tubes for the price. Thinking about snagging the RCA 6201s next payday.

Thanks, Mike. I might have to look into some 6201's as well. Man, this is getting addicting. On the plus side, I shouldn't run out of tubes anytime soon!

heiney9 wrote: »

Nice snag!!! Those should be great sounding tubes. Not sure what type of sound you are looking for, but Valvo Hamburg are very neutral and have a huge soundstage in general. The highs sparkle a little bit too, bass is tight and not overdone. I refer to them as best combo of solid state and tubes.

Let me know what you think of them if they are your first pair of Valvo Hamburg's.

H9

H9 - Yeah, these will be my first set of Valvo Hamburg's. Since you mentioned that you'd pay $60-$70 for a set, I was surprised that only one guy made a feeble attempt at outbidding me. Free shipping was just icing on the cake. Sometimes it just works out like that on Ebay though...

Regarding what kind of sound I'm looking for, I'd say I'm looking for quick/tight/deep bass, detailed highs and a large soundstage, all from a tube that doesn't hum too much (or at all). That's not too much to ask, is it? :rolleyes: :biggrin: I have a couple sets that sound great while playing, but between songs you can definitely hear the tubes humming. Other sets are dead quiet, but don't have the sparkle in the highs I'm looking for.

I'll definitely let you guys know what I think of them after I receive them and get my ears on them for a week or so...

Thanks again for the tip and info, H9!

heiney9

Alan, that was a great price and I have gotten some sick deals on Ebay too. Valvo's in general are very quiet, long lasting tubes. Did you try cleaning the PIN's? I've gotten rid of all kinds of noise by using deoxit on the the PIN's of noisy tubes.

As far as bass, I've noticed the most dramatic changes come with rectifier swapping. In general the German tubes (Valvo Hamburg, Seimens and true Telefunkens) are cleaner, more neutral and have a little tighter bottom end.

You should enjoy them.

As far as choice, it depends on associated gear and your room. Since moving and having a much livlier room (until I get a chance to do some room treatments) I've switched to a Blackburn (Mullard) made Valvo because the highs are a little rolled off and I need a tad fuller sound. It's great to have all kinds of "flavors" of tubes to choose from. Sometimes I just roll in a different tube just for a different sound.

I will add that many of these differences I hear between different tubes are subtle, but there nonetheless.



H9