Holy Grail

heiney9

I'd have to see the style getter, probably square w/o foil. It's an older one probably mid 50's based on the color of the writing and base. Definitely not 30's or 40's, but still a great rectifier and a great price....................................................












assuming it works:biggrin:

H9

audio_alan

heiney9 wrote: »

....................................................

assuming it works:biggrin:

H9

Yep, that's the million dollar question (well, $10.56 + shipping).....

Oh well, even if it's not as old as advertised, it still looks like a pretty cool rectifier!

heiney9

audio_alan wrote: »

Yep, that's the million dollar question (well, $10.56 + shipping).....

Oh well, even if it's not as old as advertised, it still looks like a pretty cool rectifier!

I agree.....you did good. There are so few truly early tubes around. I have a pair of Tung Sol's from 1946 and the Brimar rectifier's from 1949 or 1950 as my oldest tubes. I have lots of mid to late 50's tubes. For me the earlier they are, the better they seem to sound.

H9

audio_alan

Keiko wrote: »

I'd bet it's working. Read somewhere these old GZ30's are pretty rugged and can last forever.

I'll let you guys know in a couple weeks...

Hopefully I receive that other Brimar before then so I have a few days or so to play with it before receiving this one.

audio_alan

inspiredsports wrote: »

A good resource to clear things up (or confuse you more :biggrin:): Brent Jessee . . .

http://www.audiotubes.com - homepage

http://www.audiotubes.com/12at7.htm - 12AT7 in specific

Great, thanks for the links! That should be helpful...

heiney9

Keiko wrote: »

No tubes, but just got my groovey Star Trek plate today. :biggrin:

Rare and need 2 more to complete this set.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&rt=nc&nma=true&item=110671810134&si=gMtMIoHygvvnr7fGr34YT5tvN%252BM%253D&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWNX%3AIT

Carry on....

Atleast when you are homeless you will be the envy of your peeps with those nifty Star Trek plates.............lol :biggrin:

heiney9

I wouldn't say that.........I love Star Trek as well, just too many other collections.

H9

audio_alan

Keiko wrote: »

Got some Sylvania 5965 Gold Brand/Pins on the way. Probably not as good as your Teles Brock, but if there anything like my GB 6201s, I'll be happy. Scored 'em for only 10.00 each. :biggrin:

I just installed my recently purchased Sylvania 5965 Gold Pins yesterday. They're still settling in, but they seem to be at least as good as the GE tubes I removed. One thing I noticed is they don't glow nearly as bright as the GE's (not that looks really matter, but just throught I'd mention it).

I'm really looking forward to getting a better rectifier in there. That might be holding back the 12AT7's from showing their differences and truely shining (or not).

heiney9

audio_alan wrote: »

I just installed my recently purchased Sylvania 5965 Gold Pins yesterday. They're still settling in, but they seem to be at least as good as the GE tubes I removed. One thing I noticed is they don't glow nearly as bright as the GE's (not that looks really matter, but just throught I'd mention it).

I'm really looking forward to getting a better rectifier in there. That might be holding back the 12AT7's from showing their differences and truely shining (or not).

They don't "glow" as much because they are lower gain tubes 47mu vs. 60mu. Yes, the rectifier will be an eye opener and should make a pretty noticeable difference. Especially if you are using the stock Chinese rectifier. Many European 12AT7's flash upon start-up, which is totally normal and not detrimental at all. My Valvo 12AX7's flash upon start up in the Norh amplifier.

I don't believe there are many other 5965's that have 17mm long plates, so microphonics should not be a huge issue, but it still happens.

Keep us posted.

H9

audio_alan

^^^ No microphonics that I can hear. Although, I don't think I've installed any microphonic tubes yet, so I'm not exactly sure what to listen for...

audio_alan

I just received 3 RCA 5V4G rectifiers in the mail this morning! :biggrin: According to the auction, they date back to 1944/48/58. I can't wait to go home and try one of them! I'll let you guys know what I think vs. the stock rectifier after I've had a chance to play them for a bit...

inspiredsports

Keiko wrote: »

Going to reserve some judgement on these, but thus far, I'm digging the Sylvania 5965s. They have a rich detail and nice bottom end. I gave up a little bit of depth in my soundstage compared to the Valvo 6201s I had in there, but these still sound really good. Nice & quiet. The tubes are still new, so I expect them to improve over time. For a 20.00 investment, I have no complaints. Add a couple more to the arsenal.

Same way. As I PM'd last week, I have both Gold Brand (but not gold-pinned) and non-Gold Brand Sylvania 5965's That I give "A" grades to as they are very, very good (and affordable too ).

evilgenius68

makes me wish I never sold my rare JBL 100 watt tube amp...ok goin to find something with tubes in it and spend money i dont have.,lol

SCompRacer

heiney9 wrote: »

Yes, the rectifier will be an eye opener ....

I thought this thread needed a 5Y3WGT rectifier tube in action photo. From the Hagerman Coronet 2 I built for Carl (schwarcw). I had it flipped over measuring voltages and this caught my eye.

heiney9

Glad you're digging your Sylvz, I confess those you sent me I don't really care for. They are a decent tube for sure, but there are many others that sound better to me in my rig. Namely any Telefunken or Valvo, Raytheon 6414's, RFT ECC81, RCA 12AT7 black plate, GE 5 ***** 6201, Amperex Bugle Boy sounds better to me.

But that's what synergy is all about. I'd rate the SYlvz above any stock tube or even any new production tube, but they honestly don't get any playing time. But, I'll give 'em a shot again soon.

H9

audio_alan

Spam - reported!

heiney9

Mike, once I get some house expenses squared away I may start exploring more 12AT7 tubes again. I have a pair of 1950's JAN CHS 6SL7WGT black plate, square getter, which I absolutely love for my integrated, so I think there may be hope yet for some older Sylvz in the 12AT7 line.

H9

heiney9

The bottom end on the Tele 5965 is HUGE, but never over done or bloated. Quite amazing since the Aleph has great low end already. People who complain about not getting sufficient bass from SDA's either have them set up incorrectly or poor gear choices. My 1C's sing in the bass area. Sub not needed by a long shot.

H9

audio_alan

heiney9 wrote: »

The bottom end on the Tele 5965 is HUGE, but never over done or bloated. Quite amazing since the Aleph has great low end already. People who complain about not getting sufficient bass from SDA's either have them set up incorrectly or poor gear choices. My 1C's sing in the bass area. Sub not needed by a long shot.

H9

I agree about the SDA's and bass. The bass really seems to have been unleashed on my SDA-SRS's since added the Dared SL-2000a to my system. I can't say enough about that little unit...

audio_alan

Well, I'm still waiting on the Brimar rectifiers to be delivered from overseas, but I got a chance to play with the RCA rectifiers. Initial observations: I think the RCA is a bit more punchy, slightly deeper bass, and a slightly wider sound field. So far nothing is night and day different over the stock tube, but it's possible that I need to roll in some different 12AT7's to get the RCA rectifier to sound it's best. Additionally, my MIT EXP 2 cables are fairly new, so it's possible that they are having an impact on the sound quality as well. I'd like to explore getting some better interconnects too, to see if that makes a noticable difference with the Dared...

Regardless, that little Dared continues to make me smile every time I fire it up and see the tubes start to glow. Most people don't know what they're missing!

heiney9

Yep, you need to change ONE thing at a time to evaluate the change. Swapping rectifiers, 12AT7's and cables all at the same time will do nothing for trying to evaluate your rig.

You will never get a baseline and then realize which piece made the most dramatic change. This hobby takes a lot of patience if you truly want to get the best synergy.

H9

audio_alan

H9 - I hear what you're saying and I agree, but I think I have a method to my madness as well. Once I "know" that my cables and tubes are broke in, then I can swap, swap, swap, with the assumption that every component is behaving in its "optimal range". I figure, even if I totally let the MIT's burn in with the stock rectifier, switching to a new rectifier might not sound as good because that new rectifier hasn't been broken in yet. So I'd still need to wait for X hours/days/weeks to break in the new rectifier, and do a comparison at a later date anyway. Same thing with the 12AT7's...

So, why not roll, roll, roll through several sets of rectifiers and 12AT7's over the next month or two, breaking them all in at the same time as the MITs?. At that point, I should have broken in Canare and MIT cables (plus a set of unused MIT cables as a baseline), 2 or 3 broken in rectifiers, and multiple sets of broken in 12AT7's. I can then try to do a more formalized approach to swaping components, with what should be "immediate" results because the components are already broken in. That seems to make sense to me anyway. Do you agree? If not, why?

The only question is, which order?

Cables, Rectifiers, 12AT7's?
Rectifiers, Cables, 12AT7's?
12AT7's, Rectifiers, Cables?
Rectifiers, 12AT7's, Cables?
12AT7's, Cables, Rectifiers?

With as many combinations, tubes and variations of cables as I have, I think it might take me a loooooong time to make an accurate comparison. So, to some degree I'm not stressing over it and I'm just having a blast tube rolling and enjoying the great sounding music! :biggrin:

heiney9

I've been in this hobby a long time and the best way is to swap one thing at a time if you are looking for accurate results as far as getting your rig to sound optimal for you.

1) tubes don't take as long to break-in, in my experience. Perhaps 30-50 hours if not less.

2) be sure anything tube powered is powered up at least 30 minutes prior to evaluation or critical listening.

3) some changes will be immediate (if you have a baseline to compare) most will be subtle compared to your original baseline and may take a few listens with very familiar material.

4) some changes yield no change compared to your baseline

5) establish a baseline and then use the same familiar source material for evaluation.

6) if there is no method you will be chasing your tail and you will start doubting what you hear both positively and negatively.

7) if all this gear is new to you and you've added a lot to the rig, I'd say 6 months minimum to establish a reliable baseline.

8) you may not be that interested in critical listening and just want something that sounds good at the moment without to much analysis. If that's the case you're certainly going about it right now.

9) patience and long time listening is the only way to accurately evaluate changes in your rig.

I've owned the Dared about 2 years and I've just now settled on my favorite tubes for it. It takes that long to evaluate.

H9

audio_alan

Thanks for the advice and insight, Brock!

Of course I want my setup to sound as good as it can, but when I buy a new toy, I want to play with it! Haha :biggrin: Not to mention, I want to know that the tubes I bought work, instead of putting them on a shelf and then 2 years later finding out I was scammed on an Ebay auction. Do you guy test your tubes right away, or do you just trust that they work?

At this point, flawed or not, my approach is this:

#1 Have fun, enjoy the music (because my rig sounds better that it ever has!!!)
#2 Break in all the new equipment, so I don't have any doubts about their "broken-in status".
#3 Slowly, methodically start comparing all of the broken-in equipment.

Right now I'm in between #1 and #2.

Even if I'm currently confusing my ears with this rapid change, I'll eventually settle into the MIT's, one rectifier, and one set of 12AT7's for a few months (or 6 months, as you suggested). Then, I'll start on #3 above. And if I'm missing out on another 5% improvement right now because I switched stuff too quickly, oh well, it's not the end of the world. I'll get "there" (wherever that is :rolleyes:) ... eventually...

heiney9

Sounds good Alan.............probably better to have things broken in and then start the journey. As long as once you start your evaluation, you just change one thing at a time you should be good to go and it will be fun too!

H9

audio_alan

heiney9 wrote: »

Sounds good Alan.............probably better to have things broken in and then start the journey. As long as once you start your evaluation, you just change one thing at a time you should be good to go and it will be fun too!

H9

Yep, that's the plan. Sounds like I'm not too far off base then...

Btw, you didn't comment on whether you try your tubes out right away, or if you just trust that they work. Or do you have a dedicated tube tester?

One of the RCA rectifiers I bought recently had a small bead of glass rolling around inside of it. I definitely didn't want to wait on that one since I was skeptical that it was going to work. But, it worked without problems and sounded great! It must have been a manufacturing defect, I guess?

heiney9

I usually try them right away. Older tubes may have glass pieces inside. Also on an old tube vs. current production always insert and remove the tube by grabbing the base. Small signal tubes don't have a base, but your rectifier does. Many times the glue becomes brittle over the past 50,60 years and if you pull on the glass envelope you could loosen the glue. Best practice it to handle the tube by the base.

If the glass comes loose it can be re-glued, but why chance that if there is an alternate way to handle the tube.

H9

inspiredsports

heiney9 wrote: »

I usually try them right away. Older tubes may have glass pieces inside. Also on an old tube vs. current production always insert and remove the tube by grabbing the base. Small signal tubes don't have a base, but your rectifier does. Many times the glue becomes brittle over the past 50,60 years and if you pull on the glass envelope you could loosen the glue. Best practice it to handle the tube by the base.

If the glass comes loose it can be re-glued, but why chance that if there is an alternate way to handle the tube.

H9

To re-glue, do you have any hints about the procedure and what glue to use?

audio_alan

heiney9 wrote: »

I usually try them right away. Older tubes may have glass pieces inside. Also on an old tube vs. current production always insert and remove the tube by grabbing the base..... snip, snip....

H9

Yep, I always handle/remove them by the base too. I hadn't thought about the glue issue, but it just made more sense to me to pull on them from the base.

heiney9

inspiredsports wrote: »

To re-glue, do you have any hints about the procedure and what glue to use?

I read it somewhere, but I can't find the link. It's simple and IIRC, you high temp. epoxy of some sort, nothing special as far as adhesive. Just run a small bead at the base of the glass and micanol base.

H9