How many listen to 2 channel music with their sub on?

thesurfer

As said before, to each there own, know ones right, or wrong,, Its all a matter of taste, and what one likes,,, To me, know one has the right to say you should, or shouldnt do this or that, I know alot of guys that have high end stuff, and dont need a sub, but use it in 2 channel, simply because of the effects, of the bass responce, They admit there boosting the low end, cause thats what they like, There bassheads,, and good for them, just not my cup of tea,,

polkfan38

I guess if I had the cash, two large towers would be my way to go. However, on a budget, a couple of decent bookshelves and a sub would do the trick. Like many have said, it's all personal preference. If done right, either would work. I am a fanboy of large speakers. Even at low volumes, they just sound better to me. The way they fill a room with sound.

cfrizz

This works both ways H9. Can you provide proof that the recorded music doesn't have content below 32Hz?

heiney9 wrote: »

Actually yes, quite a few people did say that.

No one has addressed my question about recorded music not having much content below about 32Hz. I still believe, based on listening to a lot of music, there are relatively few instances of recorded music hitting much below 32-35Hz. Sure there are examples, I'm sure of Classical and perhaps some live recordings, but on the whole there isn't that much. I get a lot more bass from the 1C's from movie soundtracks than music, so I know they are capable of more but the content just isn't there for most popular music.

To me, as I stated before, if the musical content isn't there, then the sub is emphasizing the bass that you do seem to hear when using a sub. It's boosting the output at the same frequency that a full range floorstander is already producing.

Subs are great for multi-channel music DVD's and movies because they are mastered to emphasize the lower bass, but I see little use for them in a properly set up 2 channel environment where your main speakers will play the lowest note in 99% of the music on cd.

H9

heiney9 wrote: »

I still want to know where this "musical content" is coming from for all you sub owners who sware the music digs deeper when using a sub with full range speakers that are capable of producing the same content?I don't want a singular, specific example here and there, because I know there are exceptions out there of recordings that have lower bass content. No one has convinced me, nor have I heard of an example where a sub in full range 2ch system isn't slightly enhancing, coloring or boosting certain bass frequencies to give the allusion of extra or lower bass response. That's exactly why I didn't like the LSi 9's. Everyone says the bass is prodigous, it just has an upper mid-bass hump that sounds good until you realize how much it colors the music. Nothing wrong if that tone suits your listening tastes. For me, after awhile, it sounded to unnatural.

H9

heiney9

The proof is on those who say everyone needs a sub in their rig because we are missing low end content. I am asking those that contend a sub is needed no matter what, to show me the music they listen to actually has content below 35Hz.

Like I said, when I watch dynamic movies I can feel a lot more bass than when listening to music. Sometimes the low bass tickles my toes and envelopes the room, but not too much on music, if ever. Movies are just played in 2.0 Dolby, no LFE track or other Dolby decoding that adds even more low end content, by design I might add.

H9

P.s. When changing amps my bass increased more than I thought possible (both in texture and content and depth), so there is definitely a gear element in the mix as well. So throw in gear, room, musical content, full range speakers, set-up, etc.....should I go on, and you can see there is really no singular answer for all situations.

polktiger

I will admit, I haven't read this whole thread, but similar to H9's comments...I don't use a sub IF I am listening to speakers that are actually full range. Most recently in 2 channel I was flip flopping between SDA 1Bs and some Totem Winds and there was no need for me to use a sub as both of those will get pretty deep.

It seems some discussion is about whether music has content down below 40 hz. It certainly depends on what you listen to. Hearing a lot of subs, a many mainstream subs poor job even getting below 40hz, so you have to have a pretty good sub to begin with if you are worried about sound in that range.

Something similar to this may have been posted earlier, but the attached link gives some idea of "how deep" some instruments go. You will see, there aren't but a couple that can get under 40. Obviously, electronic music can probably produce any frequency desired.

http://www.psbspeakers.com/audio-topics/The-Frequencies-of-Music

heiney9

polktiger wrote: »

Something similar to this may have been posted earlier, but the attached link gives some idea of "how deep" some instruments go. You will see, there aren't but a couple that can get under 40. Obviously, electronic music can probably produce any frequency desired.

http://www.psbspeakers.com/audio-topics/The-Frequencies-of-Music

I understand a free air instrument can produce sounds below 35Hz, but my question is when music is being recorded, mixed, mastered, etc much of the content that makes it on the actual recording is constrained to a certain range of frequencies. Of course there are some, for lack of a better word "audiophile", recordings that don't necessarily use the same standard recording process.

I have a wonderful live recording of Stanley Clark, Larry Carlton, Billy Cobham, Deron Johnson and Najee - Live at the Greek that is one of the most dynamic recordings I own and the bass goes deeeeeeeep. I can literally shake the foundation a higher levels. Much deeper than a typical recording of the same type of instruments in the same setting. So I know these types of recordings out there..........and still my system produces lots of bass when asked to by the recording.

H9

thesurfer

Ive also noticed, that alot of music, that was remastered to the cd format, was somehow thinner sounding,, as if they cleaned alot of the bass, from the analog, master recording,, as stated, you have to consider the type of music,, and its format,,and how it got mixed to begin with,

quadzilla

cfrizz wrote: »

This works both ways H9. Can you provide proof that the recorded music doesn't have content below 32Hz?

It's easy enought to prove.... name a half dozen or dozen tracts, and me or someone can run them through a spectrum analyzer and see what comes out. It's really not that hard to show.

Or you can just grab audacity (free) which includes a spectrum plot analyzer and see for yourself.

F1nut

I stopped by MLS's earlier tonight. His 2BTL's do not need a sub.

heiney9

F1nut wrote: »

I stopped by MLS's earlier tonight. His 2BTL's do not need a sub.

No Jesse, everyone needs a sub.......we are missing important musical content

H9

leroyjr1

I have a pair of monitor 4's and they don't need a sub. The 6" driver shakes the foundation of my house..

heiney9

leroyjr1 wrote: »

I have a pair of monitor 4's and they don't need a sub. The 6" driver shakes the foundation of my house..

I'm sure :rolleyes:, no one ever said that a sub in not needed with bookshelf speakers or speakers that aren't full range.......nice try though.

H9

pearsall001

For some reason the discussion always drifts back to the subs low end. A subs low end addition is only a part of the total package that they bring to the table. Some get it, some don't, & others don't care one way or another. Whatever floats your musical tastes is all that matters.

Conradicles

quadzilla wrote: »

Or you can just grab audacity (free) which includes a spectrum plot analyzer and see for yourself.

This is a nice thread and I would like to learn more about this. I'll have to get my search on...

leroyjr1

pearsall001 wrote: »

For some reason the discussion always drifts back to the subs low end. A subs low end addition is only a part of the total package that they bring to the table. Some get it, some don't, & others don't care one way or another. Whatever floats your musical tastes is all that matters.

Subs fill in the lower end frequency's, what else do they do?

BeefJerky

leroyjr1 wrote: »

Subs fill in the lower end frequency's, what else do they do?

Mine cooks me dinner and does the laundry. However, I always need to add more salt to the food. Worse, the damn thing mixes my colors and whites in the same load. I'm a guy, so I am getting sick and tired of wearing pink underwear!

Erik Tracy

BeefJerky wrote: »

Mine cooks me dinner and does the laundry. However, I always need to add more salt to the food. Worse, the damn thing mixes my colors and whites in the same load. I'm a guy, so I am getting sick and tired of wearing pink underwear!

But, does it make toast?

Toolfan66

Well at least this thread didn't turn out like a cable thread

newrival

heiney9 wrote: »

No one has addressed my question about recorded music not having much content below about 32Hz. I still believe, based on listening to a lot of music, there are relatively few instances of recorded music hitting much below 32-35Hz.

I did

Edit: oops, no I didn't. You're talking about the mastered recording and not the performance itself. That i can't comment on. I have a good friend who's a producer in Nashville, I'll ask him.

newrival

pearsall001 wrote: »

For some reason the discussion always drifts back to the subs low end. A subs low end addition is only a part of the total package that they bring to the table. Some get it, some don't, & others don't care one way or another. Whatever floats your musical tastes is all that matters.

That's right. Someone mentioned their sub-bass being something like 3.5%. This is well into the audible range. Letting a driver take over the sub-120HzHz range can allow for more accuracy in that range and eliminate that one note drone some speakers produce. Although many low-end subs only offer more of the same.

falconcry72

I've been using Maggies (1.6's), and I prefer them with a sub. The dual 8" sealed box Mirage sub I use is very quick and low. I cross it over around 35hz. I use it tastefully. I try to set it so that you can't tell it's on until I turn it off.

tonyb

You forgot the option of not having a sub at all. I ditched the sub idea when I went to full range floorstanders and never looked back. Though decent amplification is needed to do so. I will admit to the benefits in HT for a sub, but 2 channel...nah, I can live without it and be very happy.

TNRabbit

leroyjr1 wrote: »

Subs fill in the lower end frequency's, what else do they do?

BeefJerky wrote: »

Mine cooks me dinner and does the laundry. However, I always need to add more salt to the food. Worse, the damn thing mixes my colors and whites in the same load. I'm a guy, so I am getting sick and tired of wearing pink underwear!

Bravo~