This makes me sick!!!

Demiurge

headrott wrote: »

Is it me, or are some people trying to dismiss what the girl in the video is doing to the environment she was brought up in?? "Well, she lived in/through hell so it's OK to throw a bucket full of puppies in the river?!?!" It seems like that's what some people are saying and if so shame on you. Does it make it OK to premeditatively kill something/someone because you were brought up in an environment of premeditated killing? Absolutely not. It's crazy to think otherwise.

Greg

There's a few things going on in this thread, but what you're describing is moral relativism.

Good and evil, right and wrong -- they're all just ambiguous terms in the mind of the moral relativist. Because another culture does something in a bass ackwards way from us we're just supposed to accept it and not say its immoral or wrong.

Great, isn't it?

Whatever the rationalization, drowning animals by pitching them into a river is wrong. I don't give a baboon's bright red **** what this girl has been through or seen. If I even accept they needed to be killed, that is not a humane way to dispatch of an animal.

I'm a hunter. The last thing I ever want to see is an animal suffering needlessly.

madmax

I watched the puppies being thrown in the river. Not nearly as bad as the story of a woman who had 23 hot nails pushed in her as punishment for not doing everything correctly or making mistakes, she was a housemaid in the middle east somewhere. I won't post it but google for "23 nails".

indyhawg

I couldn't bring my self to watch that video.

munk

If drowning puppies in the river is wrong, then euthanizing them is wrong, shooting horses is wrong, mouse traps are wrong, and while we're at it, spit that burger out.

Would you feel better if the girl used a mallet? Would a shotgun be OK?
IF the puppies were strapped to tiny chairs, and electrocuted, would that be OK? Should we eat the meat? Maybe you don't like them crying- we can give them lethal injections.

We've identified 'moral relativism' as a weak, rotten rationalization, because many of us thought the starvation and murder of humans a more important issue. Do those of you making this argument wish the World to turn it's resources to saving puppies from drowning instead of the flood relief in Pakistan for humans? Or equal money? We could save the puppies in Pakistan instead. Well, they're probably being eaten...

When the female jogger in Northern California was killed by a Mt Lion, in the first months afterwards, much more money was raised for the orphaned kittens instead of the motherless children of the victim. It was only after this issue got airplay on other media outlets that the two funds drew even.

People in times of great stress and fear focus on minor issues instead of the big ones.

I'm a hunter also. I never allow an animal to suffer if I can help it. Throwing puppies in a river is not the worst way for them to be put down by any means. Shooting is better, but I doubt the girl owned a gun, and if she did, she would probably would rather buy food than bullets.

A poster thought my 'world is a painful place ' an understatement. That's what I get for speaking gently. OK. The world is a painful place, and most animals live short and brutal lives. Until the last century, and still to the present, many humans live short and brutal lives.

A poster thought throwing puppies into the river was 'bad for the environment'

If the US dollar collapses, our debt comes due and we pay with worthless money, we will see a return to reality. When the looters and rapers come to your neighborhood, you can think about the damage that girl did to the environment while a city near you crumbles. There is an armed terrorist insurrection worldwide, our nation is vulnerable, and some of you are drawing the line on those puppies.

If you think those puppies are as important as your family you should vote accordingly. There are political movements to give full legal rights to animals.

Demiurge

munk wrote: »

If drowning puppies in the river is wrong, then euthanizing them is wrong, shooting horses is wrong, mouse traps are wrong, and while we're at it, spit that burger out.

What are you going on about? Do you know the difference between cruel and humane?

When I shoot a deer to harvest it for meat, the kill is quick, clean and humane. I don't shoot it in the leg, let it slowly bleed out, kick it a few times and then drown it in a river.

Even if you think the dogs would be better off dead, a round in the their developing skulls would have been far better than tossing them in the drink.

Do you really not understand the difference? :rolleyes:

shack

dorokusai wrote:

I hate the video and deplore the actions but there are far worse things to be concerned about....sorry, pick your battles.

Animal cruelty is one of the battles I choose to fight. I deplore the way some people treat animals. I'm not a PETA fanatic...but senseless cruelty is wrong whether to an animal or another human. I donate money to animal welfare and rescue groups.

I also deplore the way humans treat each other.

Interesting though...when I posted the artilcle about the doctors and members of the medical team that were murdered in Afghanistan (which enraged me), some actually laid blame on the victims. No point really...just interesting the perspective of some.

munk

Animal Cruelty? Where? Please provide alternatives to 'cruelty' and what you would have accepted as a moral disposal of unwanted pets in Bosnia.

Just answer the question- mallet, hammer, spear, gun, fire, rock-

there a lot a veterinarians in Bosnia?

Demiurge

munk wrote: »

Animal Cruelty? Where? Please provide alternatives for what you would have accepted as a moral disposal of unwanted pets in Bosnia.

I did already.

Even if you think the dogs would be better off dead, a round in the their developing skulls would have been far better than tossing them in the drink.

Do you think death by drowning is a humane way of dispatching of an animal?

munk

And I already answered that- guns and bullets cost money. May not seem like much to you, but it is in many parts of this world.

I consider drowning very young land animals to be humane, yes. If they're not able to get around very well and are vulnerable, a river is a humane way to die. A river is better than a still lake. Drowning is quick, and you may not like the image, but poor people all over the globe still do this on a regular basis.

They could always starve to death slowly because everyone is afraid to be seen drowning them. You think Bosnia has a lot of middle class pet owners? Where's that free spay clinic when I want one!!!???

Did you ever live on a farm?

Mike Kozak

Kill that ****!!!!

munk

Lol

!!!

BIZILL

that girl didn't get hugged enough as a child.

munk

I wonder how much it would cost to have the Bosnian Humane Society show up, nurse the puppies to health, provide shots and medical attention, and after 30 days and no one claims them, euthanize?

BIZILL

i'm thinking using them pups as boa food would be more "humane" than tossing them into a river. it's not like the gal is giving them their own "chance" to make it on their own.

for the record, no, i wouldn't feed pups to any snakes.

Demiurge

munk wrote: »

And I already answered that- guns and bullets cost money. May not seem like much to you, but it is in many parts of this world.

I consider drowning very young land animals to be humane, yes. If they're not able to get around very well and are vulnerable, a river is a humane way to die. A river is better than a still lake. Drowning is quick, and you may not like the image, but poor people all over the globe still do this on a regular basis.

They could always starve to death slowly because everyone is afraid to be seen drowning them. You think Bosnia has a lot of middle class pet owners? Where's that free spay clinic when I want one!!!???

Did you ever live on a farm?

Even with the shortage here, Ammo is still cheap, especially the stuff from Russia. :rolleyes:

Drowning is not quick and certainly not humane.

Yes, I've lived on a farm. Still have family that runs a few. You don't seem to know the first thing about how to humanely dispatch of an animal when needed. No veterinarian needed.

jflail2

Hahaha, I can't stop watching this trainwreck of a thread; awesome stuff.

Ricardo

Haven't read the whole thread or clicked on the link. Just wondering, if it makes you sick why post it here?

tommyboy

As soon as I saw Bosnia I wasn't surprised. If this happened in America it be much different. If that country decides to waste one cent on any sort of an investigation...

I'm not saying what the girl did is right by any means, but everyone is getting upset about a lesser of two evils...

snow

Ricardo wrote: »

Haven't read the whole thread or clicked on the link. Just wondering, if it makes you sick why post it here?

Wants empathy.



REGARDS SNOW

munk

Demiurge

One inhalation of water = humane death. Lots of people commit suicide by drowning- it's easy, it's cheap, it's FUN.

Yes, I know how to dispatch animals. It's good to know Russian ammo is not considered expensive for you here in the States, you of a family that owns many farms. I'm happy you are well armed. When revolution hit the former Yugoslavia- (It was actually ethnic cleansing-) the Moslem population did not have weapons- almost all the former state's weapons were in the hands of the 'Christians'. Then we and Europe had an arms embargo, 'to stop the violence'. So no, I doubt very much if people on the edge of starvation would consider russian ammunition to be cheap. If a AK costs 300 bucks, that's 300 bucks they don't have.

How many wild/stray cats and dogs run free in the US? You must have some idea how much it would cost to gather and fix them, not to mention lethal injections.

If the most powerful nation in the world cannot control its former pets, why do you think the Bosnians should do better?


After careful consideration of the reasonableness of your arguments, I now find we should reccomend that young girl for a medal. Perhaps the Bosnian Cross? (A relief showing a couple puppies paw to paw, above a river cast upon a brass medallion)

You know, in Canada they for all intent banned handguns. Many argued the handgun contributed to the high teenage suicide rate. Guess what happened? Leaping suicides went way up and took up the statistical slack! Teens considered that a acceptable alternative, a good way to go.

I need to know- would you making the cruelty argument accept the puppies being thrown one by one off a cliff? We'll make sure there's a farm below so the puppies are not wasted; they'll act as a much needed fertilizer.

If we had a video showing a teenage girl shooting puppies, I guarentee some would consider that cruel. This discussion is much more about the actual killing, not the method. We have our killing done in this country by people who do it for a living. Death is removed from the population eating Big Macs. There are a variety of ways we kill both animals and humans, but all methods share this in common; it is out of the public eye.

I had to put down my best cat, jake. I'd owned him for years. When I told the Humane Society doctor I'd take him home and shoot him, the entire staff paniced, I was persuaded to accept a syringe with a concoction in it. I drove home and gave Jake his shot.

The point is, there are very few methods of death acceptable in Western middle class society.

And as I said in my first post, and there's nothing humorous here- I have no idea what that young lady has been through and what she has seen. For all I know, she's one of the good ones, a lady who cares enough to drown unwanted animals in the first place. Their deaths could be so much worse, and probably are.

munk

What are the other puppies doing while you shoot their brother? Probably in a state of raw terror, listening to their brother's yelps until there's a deafening roar. The remaining litter must be in shock and horror. Then the door opens and you take another puppy.

Yeah, I can see how well that will go.

The river is looking better and better.

FTGV

munk wrote: »

.

The river is looking better and better.

:eek:

snow

munk wrote: »

What are the other puppies doing while you shoot their brother? Probably in a state of raw terror, listening to their brother's yelps until there's a deafening roar. The remaining litter must be in shock and horror. Then the door opens and you take another puppy.

Yeah, I can see how well that will go.

The river is looking better and better.

Geez let it go. We could argue all night about the most humane way. There is no easy way to kill a puppy. It sucks that puppies die it sucks that people let their dogs run loose so the puppys face an uncertain life at best. Hell it sucks that humans create babies that are unwanted and tossed in rivers also.

REGARDS SNOW

munk

People like puppies, they don't like mice and they really don't like rats. Arguably, the rat is about as smart as a puppy, but we still don't like him.

It's probably considered OK to drown rats, we certainly poisen them. We wouldn't poisen a puppy.

So this discussion of 'humane' really comes down to which animals we like, and which we do not.

It's cultural.

munk

Alright snow, I was having fun but if you think it time to go, I accept your judgement and will. I thought the cultural bias Fasinating! To tell you the honest truth- we humans do many things that are nasty, but depends in which society you live.

And for the record, I love cats and dogs and would feel badly about harm coming to a puppy.

tonyb

Man,you guys are brutal.
Most of you are arguing over the fact that there are more important stories of human tragedy yet to be told. While true, isn't the media big enough to carry all stories like this and the human ones too?? The supposedly free press is free to print what they want or what they want you to see or hear. Nobody wants to print stuff about darfur because then they'll have to do something about it. The whole friggin' world turned their backs to that. Save the puppies,save the whales,dolphins,polar bears, salmon,field mice, dragonflies,seagulls...how many swarmed to the gulf to save the gulls and pelicans ? Yet every year,we kill 50,000 plus unwanted children by abortion. Seems to me our priorities are a little off kilter. Regardless,it's ok to be outraged at the puppy story, because it is what it is, can't change the facts of what happened. Doesn't lesser the facts of human suffering around the globe. This isn't a race or an American Idol contest to see what story,animal or human is more disgusting.

snow

munk wrote: »

Alright snow, I was having fun but if you think it time to go, I accept your judgement and will. I thought the cultural bias Fasinating! To tell you the honest truth- we humans do many things that are nasty, but depends in which society you live.

And for the record, I love cats and dogs and would feel badly about harm coming to a puppy.

I dont neccesarily think you need to go anywhere, its just at this point pretty much everything that needed to be said has been and a whole lot more. everyone that loves animals voiced their displeasure and those that were upset that the media made such a big deal out of this rather than reporting about human tragedy made their point. All in all a lot of good points were brought up but further discussion is most likely senseless.

Its not an old thread but one that should die IMHO.

nooshinjohn

Kind of reminds me of a very well known actress I did some work for in L.A.

I installed a phone in her shiny new Range Rover. It was leather everywhere, including suede leather headliner. The car was filled with leather jackets and soccer balls for her kids.

On the back of the Rover were the requisite bumper stickers such as "meat is murder", "stop Vivisection" "say no to animal testing" and so forth. Proudly displayed in the center of the rear glass was "protect a woman's right to choose". Basically, the message she was sending out was "kill people, not animals" in typical Hollywood Hypocrite" fashion.

She handed me a twenty (cheap ****) and thanked me for the work I did, telling me to get a nice lunch. I told her I was going to get a nice, thick, juicy steak cooked medium rare. She was horrified, telling ME how cruel I was and how damaging my eating meat is to myself as well as the planet.

I politely pointed out that her Rover, getting a whopping 11 mpg on the highway and the leather that adorned the interior were far more damaging than a steak and if she was going to have animals killed for their hides in her truck, she may as well wear a fur too. I then said "there is no way I would let such good meat go to waste"!:D:D

munk

The puppies hurt us because of the big things we can't change. Mindful some don't want this thread to rehash, and in hope of a better ending, to which your post contributes (tonyb), of course it's OK to be upset about the puppies.

It's about the young, too. We often treat ourselves as adults badly, but very few would be mean to a child, or a puppy. Now I'm going to say something that will sound very animal rights- but after living in three Rocky Mountain states with the small children I raised, I believe many animals know children are not adults and allow them to come much closer. I've seen this with deer and even wild turkeys, my five year old trots right up. It's obvious to me protecting the young is something many animals feel.

Demiurge

munk wrote: »

People like puppies, they don't like mice and they really don't like rats. Arguably, the rat is about as smart as a puppy, but we still don't like him.

It's probably considered OK to drown rats, we certainly poisen them. We wouldn't poisen a puppy.

So this discussion of 'humane' really comes down to which animals we like, and which we do not.

It's cultural.

No, it really doesn't come down to that.

The inhumane killing of any animal isn't acceptable.

I can't tell if you get it or not. Perhaps you do and that's why you keep posting verbose missives of utter obfuscation filled with absurdities, such as making a bunch of 'what if' excuses for this girl tossing puppies into a river.

Its pathetic.

I could care less if its part of their culture or not, its wrong. There's no excuse or reasonable explanation. The very fact that it was recorded and then posted on YouTube tells me even they knew it was wrong, and deep down, so do you.