Ah! Njoe Tjoeb 4000 CD player

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  • BlueFoxBlueFox Posts: 10,053
    So many tubes.


    Bud - Silicon Valley

    Lumin S1
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    Pass XP-22 pre, X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers, SPOD spikes

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    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.
  • heiney9heiney9 Posts: 23,795
    Valvo Hamburg tubes are only E88CC and are very rare.

    First line of code will be 7Lx which identifies it as an E88CC

    Second line of code will start with a Dxx or Dxxx.

    Remember this tube is a late comer to the party compared to the typical signal tubes like 6SL7; 6SN7; ECC81; ECC82; ECC83, etc.

    The earliest tube is from about 1957.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S- Tubes add soul!
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 18,385
    heiney9 wrote: »
    Clipdat wrote: »
    One of the tubes has what looks like a half circle with a dot in it and then 8A in gray text.

    The other has no gray text but has yellow text in that area that says 83 and then another letter/number that's been wiped off.
    heiney9 wrote: »
    GAx = production code for the ECC88

    7Lx = production code for the E88CC

    "x" being the change code (0,1,2,A,B,C etc)

    D getter and D getter w/pinched waist are early

    ring getter is middle dated

    closed getter is later

    closed getter w/dimples is later yet.

    This is general information for the Euro made tubes by Holland, Munich and Hamburg Germany and England.

    The first one is Ei Nis ( Elektronska Industrija) tube made in Yugoslavia in the late 70's early 80's. They made some consistently good tubes considered current stock then. The earlier the better as by the late 80's quality slipped. They supposedly bought Telefunken machinery and materials.

    not sure on the 2nd one. Have to see it.


    They (EI) had like wars and stuff to work around :(
    "It's like watching a roomful of people who couldn't get through college algebra discussing the flaws of quantum physics theory. I guess it could be fun, but it's ultimately a waste of time." -- seen on audiokarma

    "Some amps run on self bias, some amps run on fixed bias. But his amps run on confirmation bias." -- seen on audioasylum

    "Writing about hifi is like dancing about architecture" -- paraphrasing some wag (possibly Frank Zappa)
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 18,385
    edited June 14
    Viking64 wrote: »
    kharp1 wrote: »
    If, by chance, Brock dangles a Valvo Hamburg in front of you I'd suggest taking advantage of that opportunity.

    Dare I Google "Valvo Hamburg"? :p

    ... or ask Robin Williams.



    (I think you have to watch, or skip, to ca. 3' 45" to see why I posted this clip)

    :|
    "It's like watching a roomful of people who couldn't get through college algebra discussing the flaws of quantum physics theory. I guess it could be fun, but it's ultimately a waste of time." -- seen on audiokarma

    "Some amps run on self bias, some amps run on fixed bias. But his amps run on confirmation bias." -- seen on audioasylum

    "Writing about hifi is like dancing about architecture" -- paraphrasing some wag (possibly Frank Zappa)
  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 4,224
    edited June 18
    Tubes from Brent Jessee have arrived:

    i5gnvty1ekdz.png
    tvkhj2hathoh.png
    c9xnyf20a96i.png
    Got Dayens?
  • kharp1kharp1 Posts: 2,411
    Ain't doing any good standing on your table, or desk, or what have you.
    Main System:
    Joule-Electra LA 100 MKIII
    Pass Labs Aleph 30, McCormack DNA-125, Parasound A21
    Marantz SA-14S1
    Usher CP-6311/Tyler Acoustics Taylo Reference Monitor, LSA-1
    Dual SVS SB2000
    Wireworld Equinox 7 bi-wire, Wireworld Silver Eclipse 7 IC

    Secondary Rig:
    Parasound P5, Audio Electronics by Cary Constellation
    Marsh a200s, Audio Elecrtonics by Cary Hercules
    Pioneer Elite DV-45a, Denon DVD-2910
    Klipsch Epic CF-1, Vandersteen 3CE sig
    Analysus Plus Oval

  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 10,226
    No doubt they look better with a glow to them...
  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 4,224
    They literally just arrived today at my office and I immediately took those photos.

    I'll get them swapped in soon, but I'm evaluating some other gear right now that is taking precedence.
    kharp1 wrote: »
    Ain't doing any good standing on your table, or desk, or what have you.

    Got Dayens?
  • kharp1kharp1 Posts: 2,411
    You need to learn to multitask a little better :)
    Main System:
    Joule-Electra LA 100 MKIII
    Pass Labs Aleph 30, McCormack DNA-125, Parasound A21
    Marantz SA-14S1
    Usher CP-6311/Tyler Acoustics Taylo Reference Monitor, LSA-1
    Dual SVS SB2000
    Wireworld Equinox 7 bi-wire, Wireworld Silver Eclipse 7 IC

    Secondary Rig:
    Parasound P5, Audio Electronics by Cary Constellation
    Marsh a200s, Audio Elecrtonics by Cary Hercules
    Pioneer Elite DV-45a, Denon DVD-2910
    Klipsch Epic CF-1, Vandersteen 3CE sig
    Analysus Plus Oval

  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 4,224
    Can't listen to a standalone DAC and a tube CDP at the same time!
    kharp1 wrote: »
    You need to learn to multitask a little better :)

    Got Dayens?
  • kharp1kharp1 Posts: 2,411
    Clipdat wrote: »
    Can't listen to a standalone DAC and a tube CDP at the same time!
    kharp1 wrote: »
    You need to learn to multitask a little better :)

    Amateur...
    Main System:
    Joule-Electra LA 100 MKIII
    Pass Labs Aleph 30, McCormack DNA-125, Parasound A21
    Marantz SA-14S1
    Usher CP-6311/Tyler Acoustics Taylo Reference Monitor, LSA-1
    Dual SVS SB2000
    Wireworld Equinox 7 bi-wire, Wireworld Silver Eclipse 7 IC

    Secondary Rig:
    Parasound P5, Audio Electronics by Cary Constellation
    Marsh a200s, Audio Elecrtonics by Cary Hercules
    Pioneer Elite DV-45a, Denon DVD-2910
    Klipsch Epic CF-1, Vandersteen 3CE sig
    Analysus Plus Oval

  • PSOVLSKPSOVLSK Posts: 3,681
    kharp1 wrote: »
    Clipdat wrote: »
    Can't listen to a standalone DAC and a tube CDP at the same time!
    kharp1 wrote: »
    You need to learn to multitask a little better :)

    Amateur...

    At using the quote feature:)
    Things work out best for those who make the best of the way things work out.-John Wooden
  • ThortonThorton Posts: 1,097
    kharp1 wrote: »
    @Clipdat - Stay tuned, this is where I got a ton of startup knowledge on tubes. I knew a little when I started, and, still know very little, but, it's certainly not for lack of good info shared here. Some great forum members have been very generous in their help, some even sharing tubes so I could get an idea of that particular tubes "flavor." There is a learning curve for home audio tubes, but, it's a fun journey and can be very eye opening. What I once looked at as a "hassle" and, possibly daunting, I now consider fun and something I look forward to. It's amazing what can happen to your sound from one set of tubes to the next.

    LET THE FUN BEGIN!

    Nice post. This is a great thread to which I have zero knowledge of. Great well experienced members here.

    Keep us posted on your journey Clip.
    _____________________________________________________________________________________________
    Source: Sonos - W4S Mod, DAC: W4S DAC-2
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  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 4,224
    Will do. I have the week of the 4th of July off from work, so I expect to be able to log a lot of hours on this player then.
    Thorton wrote: »
    Keep us posted on your journey Clip.

    Got Dayens?
  • halohalo Posts: 4,180
    Clipdat wrote: »
    Will do. I have the week of the 4th of July off from work, so I expect to be able to log a lot of hours on this player then.

    I expect you'll be hearing a lot of pops, bangs, thuds, and various other noises during this time period... ;)
  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 4,224
    edited June 25
    Yeah, don't remind me. Not looking forward to it. People in my neighborhood love to set of these huge mortars for several days leading up to and after the 4th. My skittish cat gets really freaked out and scared by it every year, feel so bad for him. :(
    Got Dayens?
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 39,980
    Get the furry beast some ear muffs.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


  • mlistens03mlistens03 Posts: 1,405
    edited June 26
    Clipdat wrote: »
    Yeah, don't remind me. Not looking forward to it. People in my neighborhood love to set of these huge mortars for several days leading up to and after the 4th. My skittish cat gets really freaked out and scared by it every year, feel so bad for him. :(

    Our old neighbors would have real fireworks (AKA missiles) that they would shoot directly above our house, making it pretty much impossible to go outside every night unless we wanted to get rained on with burning ash. They would do this for one to two weeks. Ruby (our St. Bernard) was always so so scared. It was defeaning even inside the house. And on the actual night of the fourth, they would have a huge party involving fireworks, ATVs, and beer. Two years ago they flipped the ATV twice, and two of them were sent to the hospital for being basically blown to bits when one held a Roman Candle and pointed it at himself and his friend. Thank goodness they are gone.
    Micah
    2 channel
    Speakers: Mission 770 Freedoms
    Integrated amp: Technics SU-v75 and matching tuner
    CDP: Technics SL-PC20
    Cables: Monoprice, Monster, Acoustic Research, and a few generic ones
    TT: Technics SL-3200, direct drive
    Cartridge: Shure M97xE

    Pc gaming setup
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    Random equipment on standby:
    Onkyo TX-v940, JBL woofers and tweeters, single Klipsch KG .5, Yamaha guitar amplifier, Peavey Rage 158 guitar amplifier, Kicker comp 12” subwoofer, single Bose 802 series II, a whole bunch of 1”-3” full range drivers, Infinity Crescendo 3007s (on sale), Polk LSi25s
    txcoastal1 wrote: »

    You don't tell her you read the manual, and you tell her you know what the problem is, and you fixed it, because that what men do, fix things
  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 4,224
    edited July 15
    I finally hooked the Njoe Tjoeb up in my main rig today and I'm taking a listen to it now with the Gold Aero tubes that were in there. Figured I should get a baseline of how the player sounds with these tubes, so I have a frame of reference before I swap in the Siemens tubes.

    After things have warmed up, it's sounding pretty damn good. Definitely getting some nice palpable 3D stereo imaging effects, and it seems like voices/midrange are somewhat accented. I can easily hear all the vocals thanks to the clarity, and they sound sublime. Highs might be slightly "rolled off" or not as crisp as some of my solid state CD players. Musicality is high, the sound has a certain "ease" and smooth flow to it.

    So, having nothing to really compare them to, I think these tubes that it came with are damn good! Things are sounding very nice to my ears at the moment.

    I'll be surprised if the NOS Siemens pair can improve on how things are sounding right now. Interesting!
    Post edited by Clipdat on
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  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 4,224
    edited July 16
    I was thinking more about this in general terms, and comparing the sound of a tube buffered DAC/CDP with a traditional solid state piece.

    I think the tube must add some level of "smoothness" to the sound, at perhaps the expense of some detail or maybe soundstage width (depending on the tube).

    My experience thus far with this player and a tube DAC is that the music just sounds "good". It's more enjoyable to me. There's a "naturalness" to the sound that is hard to describe. I think I might be starting to understand the allure of tubes.
    Got Dayens?
  • tonybtonyb Posts: 29,307
    You don't have to sacrifice detail or soundstage with a tube piece. Just a matter of finding the right piece...and the right tubes to put in it.
    HT SYSTEM-
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  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 4,224
    edited July 16
    It might just be the gear/tubes that I'm using then. Admittedly, not very high end stuff. By soundstage, I just meant that the sound seems a little flatter and not quite as wide. A little bit more compressed. More "localized" to the speaker.

    A reduction in detail might be a stretch. Everything is still definitely there, it's just being presented differently. I can still hear everything. However, there's not as much hyper critical detail almost to the point of being "etched" like there is with my Rotel RCD-1072 for example.
    tonyb wrote: »
    You don't have to sacrifice detail or soundstage with a tube piece. Just a matter of finding the right piece...and the right tubes to put in it.

    Got Dayens?
  • DSkipDSkip Posts: 14,668
    I prefer my tubes in the amplification stage, moreso in the power amp stage. I know most prefer tube pre/ss power, but I prefer the other way around. I find you get more of what tubes offer in the naturalness realm if you keep them in the power stage.

    The 'tube sound' isn't about tone though most feel it is. It is more about the presentation of the music. Organic is the best term I have for it. Things seem more real, more present, and the music is less etched as you put it. There is a 'rounding' of the image instead of an immediate cliff. Images have more realistic body to it instead of sounding like a pencil is singing to you.

    You can get great sound out of solid state - most of it depends on what is most important to you in the presentation. People who put emphasis on power, control, and immediacy usually prefer solid state. People who put emphasis on the intimacy of the performance and the emotion it can convey usually prefer tubes.
    audiothesis.com/

    Speakers: Harbeth: 30.2, SHL5+; Usher: Be-10, T-515; Rosso Fiorentino: Elba, Pienza, Certaldo, Fiesole, Volterra; Polk: T50, Signature S15, RTA 15tl, RTi12; Sonner Audio Allegro Unum, Legato Unum, Legato Semis, Legato Duo; Emerald Physics CS-2.8; Klipsch KLF-20
    Preamps: Shuguang S200MK, Dayens Ampino, Parasound P5
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  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 4,224
    edited July 16
    Interestingly enough, even for very electronic music like psy trance, which has basically no resemblance to any real musical instruments, the tubed CDP seems to add more texture and grace. The layers of sounds just sound even more lush and intricate.

    So it's not just traditional music with vocalists and stringed/wind instruments that seem to "benefit" from tubes.

    I say "benefit" subjectively, as some might not like this sort of presentation.

    I'm still at the very tip of the tube iceberg, but I used to think that tubes were just a way to color/eq the sound. It's definitely different than that, it's hard to describe using words, versus just hearing it for yourself.

    I also used to think "Why would anyone want something that has measurably more "distortion" and isn't as accurate as solid state?" Well, now I'm starting to understand why.
    Got Dayens?
  • heiney9heiney9 Posts: 23,795
    edited July 16
    You're making progress. Tubes add soul! It's a deep, but fun rabbit hole.

    H9

    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S- Tubes add soul!
  • heiney9heiney9 Posts: 23,795
    One of the things that fascinates me is that this glowing bunch of wires/plates and coatings inside a vacuum sealed glass envelope is still operating as new 40-50-60 years later. So many still around in very good to excellent condition.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S- Tubes add soul!
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 18,385
    heiney9 wrote: »
    One of the things that fascinates me is that this glowing bunch of wires/plates and coatings inside a vacuum sealed glass envelope is still operating as new 40-50-60 years later. So many still around in very good to excellent condition.

    H9

    Vacuum packed for freshness :)

    Plenty of tubes out there in good working order that are considerably older than 60. Heck, I've got, and use, some early 1940s vintage 6SN7s that are mighty fine... and I know folks (with deeper pockets than mine) that are rockin' things like globe 45s that are considerably older than that.

    "It's like watching a roomful of people who couldn't get through college algebra discussing the flaws of quantum physics theory. I guess it could be fun, but it's ultimately a waste of time." -- seen on audiokarma

    "Some amps run on self bias, some amps run on fixed bias. But his amps run on confirmation bias." -- seen on audioasylum

    "Writing about hifi is like dancing about architecture" -- paraphrasing some wag (possibly Frank Zappa)
  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 10,226
    Every once in awhile I'll rock my 6sn7gt VT231 made in early 40's.
  • txcoastal1txcoastal1 Posts: 9,776
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    Every once in awhile I'll rock my 6sn7gt VT231 made in early 40's.

    My favorite 6SN7's
    2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
    Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
    Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
    Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC
  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 4,224
    Listening to this player again and continuing to be impressed.

    If nothing else, it's worth buying one of these on sight just to experience for yourself the great stereo imaging it has. So very nice! :)
    Got Dayens?
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