New member asking for sanity check on Monitor 7

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Hello, everyone! I spent the last two days combing through the knowledge here after purchasing a set of Monitor 7 locally. They sound good for most genres but some punk really gets fatiguing after a short amount of time. I understand that the non-Peerless tweeters can be to blame. Mine doesn't have those. It has the SL2000 in them. I understand there is a replacement that can be purchased and I've reached out to Polk already in that regard.

What revision are these?
Is RD0194-1 the correct drop-in replacement for this revision?
Since the mid-woofers are new (assembled in 2010), do I need to worry about epoxying the magnets to prevent slip?

I didn't get a picture while it was open, but the crossovers viewed from the MW hole appear to be different. I could only see one date that was 1988 (or 89, the last digit is smeared a bit). Is that normal or does that indicate it was also replaced?

The seller only disclosed the MWs being replaced. Unfortunately he also stated these were the Peerless tweeters. And me knowing just enough to say "i know that term!" but not knowing how to identify, took him at his word. That's on me. Lesson learned. I tried to see if we could come to an agreement to get some of the money I paid back and he ghosted me. Such is life.

As far as mods go, I want to do the tweeter replacement and crossover upgrade. I still need to read up on the latter. I know how to solder, but I do NOT know how to read a schematic well enough to know what goes where. So I'm digging for a more dummy proof photo tutorial that would help me figure that out. It's probably on the forum somewhere, but I haven't found it yet.

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Answers

  • billbillw
    billbillw Posts: 8,237
    edited September 22
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    Tweeter upgrades will vastly improve things. Yes, the RD0194 is correct for that. I'd still epoxy the magnets because it is still the same design and better to do it now and forget about it than have it shift 10 years from now. Welcome to the Club. The 7 is one of the best classic non-SDA Polks. Those look pretty clean. Enjoy.
    See profile for rigs. Nothing else here.
  • Unknown
    edited September 22
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    This content has been removed.
  • billbillw
    billbillw Posts: 8,237
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    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    The MW6502 are not original, they're after market. They also look to have a foam surround instead of the butyl rubber the original had.
    Reach out to this member and buy 4, then glue the magnets when you get them. These are new unused original Polk drivers.
    https://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/201843/fs-a-boatload-of-polk-mw6502-drivers#latest

    Yes you will need the RD-0194 tweeters to replace the SL2000.

    Good catch on the woofers.
    See profile for rigs. Nothing else here.
  • Gardenstater
    Gardenstater Posts: 4,932
    edited September 22
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    Those are late Monitor 7C. Not too much before they went to the Monitor 7 Series 2.

    I didn't know that they were still making MW6502 in 2010 so I learned something. This site shows the same paper labels as yours. https://reconingspeakers.com/product/polk-mw6502-6-5-woofer/

    RD0194-1 is indeed the upgrade silk dome tweeter for the SL2000. That's a "ZERO", not an O. The date on the tweeter label is probably the date your speakers were rolled off the assembly line or darn close.

    Different crossovers would be weird since serials aren't that far apart, especially weird. Yep you do need pictures.

    To be continued maybe by others on crossover mods ........🤣. I will say that if it were me and I didn't find it too daunting I would consider the tl mod and then you would want the RD0198-1 upgraded tweeters. A bit more refined sounding than the RD0194-1, according to forum member reports and DarqueKnight measurements in Tale of 5 Tweeters thread. Westmassguy did a thread on the tl mod for the 7C.

    https://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/182943/the-tale-of-5-tweeters-sda-tweeter-replacement-guide#latest

    https://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/192120/monitor-7-with-tl-upgrade#latest

    jfq6hrbhhkgm.jpg
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    George / NJ

    Polk 7B main speakers, std. mods+ (1979, orig owner)
    Martin Logan Dynamo sub w/6ft 14awg Power Cord
    Onkyo A-8017 integrated
    Logitech Squeezebox Touch Streamer w/EDO applet
    iFi nano iDSD DAC
    iPurifier3
    iDefender w/ iPower PS
    Custom Steve Wilson 1m UPOCC Interconnect
    iFi Mercury 0.5m OFHC continuous cast copper USB cable
    Custom Ribbon Speaker Cables, 5ft long, 4N Copper, 14awg, ultra low inductance
    Custom Vibration Isolation Speaker Stands and Sub Platform
  • Father_Redbeard
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    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    The MW6502 are not original, they're after market. They also look to have a foam surround instead of the butyl rubber the original had.

    They are rubber. And this link suggests they are OEM? Just not original of course. Is that not accurate? If not then that would be strike 2 from the seller lying to me. He said he called Polk and that is what they sent him as a replacement. Which at this point I wouldn't be surprised.
  • Unknown
    edited September 22
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    This content has been removed.
  • Gardenstater
    Gardenstater Posts: 4,932
    edited September 22
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    If you have any questions about the schematic just ask, but this is probably your crossovers. One point may be the shunt inductor value was changed from 0.23mH to 0.22mH just after the date on your tweeters, so it is somewhat in doubt which you have but most people don't mess with the inductors since they are already air core. Some people go the extra mile and put in a Jantzen perfect lay or the like. The tl mod requires an inductance mod and I think westmassguy (RIP) un-wound a little wire from inductors in his parts bin of spare crossover parts since he was in the business of doing crossovers for quite a while before stopping.

    You definitely have to remove the crossovers and get the values from the resistors and capacitors anyways. No getting around that.

    https://us.v-cdn.net/5021930/uploads/attachments/4/6/7/2/8/18773.pdf

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    George / NJ

    Polk 7B main speakers, std. mods+ (1979, orig owner)
    Martin Logan Dynamo sub w/6ft 14awg Power Cord
    Onkyo A-8017 integrated
    Logitech Squeezebox Touch Streamer w/EDO applet
    iFi nano iDSD DAC
    iPurifier3
    iDefender w/ iPower PS
    Custom Steve Wilson 1m UPOCC Interconnect
    iFi Mercury 0.5m OFHC continuous cast copper USB cable
    Custom Ribbon Speaker Cables, 5ft long, 4N Copper, 14awg, ultra low inductance
    Custom Vibration Isolation Speaker Stands and Sub Platform
  • Father_Redbeard
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    I pulled the crossovers out and took some pics. Interesting that they look very different. One with obvious date stamp and the other without (that I could find).

    s8fs5l8q9kwr.jpg
    x9cs6srs15aw.jpg

  • Unknown
    edited September 22
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    This content has been removed.
  • Gardenstater
    Gardenstater Posts: 4,932
    edited September 22
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    Wow! Let's see a side view picture of the oddball one, the second one in your photos. I've never seen a XO that looks like that one. The date on the first one, which looks more typical of what I have seen, is a good 8 months after the date on your tweeter. Did both tweeters have the same dates?
    George / NJ

    Polk 7B main speakers, std. mods+ (1979, orig owner)
    Martin Logan Dynamo sub w/6ft 14awg Power Cord
    Onkyo A-8017 integrated
    Logitech Squeezebox Touch Streamer w/EDO applet
    iFi nano iDSD DAC
    iPurifier3
    iDefender w/ iPower PS
    Custom Steve Wilson 1m UPOCC Interconnect
    iFi Mercury 0.5m OFHC continuous cast copper USB cable
    Custom Ribbon Speaker Cables, 5ft long, 4N Copper, 14awg, ultra low inductance
    Custom Vibration Isolation Speaker Stands and Sub Platform
  • Father_Redbeard
    Father_Redbeard Posts: 9
    edited September 22
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    More pics of the 'weird one':

    EDIT: And yes, both tweeters have the same date - March 16, 1989

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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 52,406
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    Model #7...that'll make the gardener's head spin.
  • Unknown
    edited September 22
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    This content has been removed.
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 52,406
    edited September 22
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    The 6 indicates uF. The K indicates +/- 10%.
  • Gardenstater
    Gardenstater Posts: 4,932
    edited September 22
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    Are the inductors the same awg? I'm going to guess the crossover with the King Sun Capacitor, the big blue one, is from the speaker with the higher serial no.? Maybe the change in bobbin size of the inductor required a slight change in inductance to try to bring the voicing back into line with previous. Could be a larger wire size (smaller awg#) too.
    George / NJ

    Polk 7B main speakers, std. mods+ (1979, orig owner)
    Martin Logan Dynamo sub w/6ft 14awg Power Cord
    Onkyo A-8017 integrated
    Logitech Squeezebox Touch Streamer w/EDO applet
    iFi nano iDSD DAC
    iPurifier3
    iDefender w/ iPower PS
    Custom Steve Wilson 1m UPOCC Interconnect
    iFi Mercury 0.5m OFHC continuous cast copper USB cable
    Custom Ribbon Speaker Cables, 5ft long, 4N Copper, 14awg, ultra low inductance
    Custom Vibration Isolation Speaker Stands and Sub Platform
  • Father_Redbeard
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    Man, y'all are throwing out terms I have no idea what they mean. I'm assuming AWG is referencing the gauge of the wiring? If so, i didn't measure it but sure seemed slightly thicker.

    Starting to wonder if I have what it takes to do the crossover upgrade myself. Threw myself a wrench with to different types, eh?
  • Gardenstater
    Gardenstater Posts: 4,932
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    The "oddball" one......might as well keep calling it that lol, will be a bit more difficult to work on.

    But.

    Here ya go there is a 7C crossover on eBay right now. Grab that puppy before it's gone.

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/267731607384
    George / NJ

    Polk 7B main speakers, std. mods+ (1979, orig owner)
    Martin Logan Dynamo sub w/6ft 14awg Power Cord
    Onkyo A-8017 integrated
    Logitech Squeezebox Touch Streamer w/EDO applet
    iFi nano iDSD DAC
    iPurifier3
    iDefender w/ iPower PS
    Custom Steve Wilson 1m UPOCC Interconnect
    iFi Mercury 0.5m OFHC continuous cast copper USB cable
    Custom Ribbon Speaker Cables, 5ft long, 4N Copper, 14awg, ultra low inductance
    Custom Vibration Isolation Speaker Stands and Sub Platform
  • Unknown
    edited September 22
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    This content has been removed.
  • Father_Redbeard
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    Going to hold off on crossover upgrade for a bit. The Speaker Exchange notified me they had the RD0194-1 in stock while both Polk and Midwest are OOS. Polk said no ETA, but Midwest's site shows Oct.

    Figure this will take care of the fatiguing ice pick stabbing. Then look into the crossover upgrade. Still undecided on replacing the 2010 Midwoofers though. Think I'll wait to get the new tweeters installed and see how they sound then make a decision from there.

    Also, I noticed there was no gasket around the crossover plate when I was taking them out for photos. Isn't there supposed to be? I did the finger test of pushing the passive woofer and mid woofer in separately and it moves the other speaker. Also did a frequency generator test and both woofers on each cab move as I believe is expected. But I'm sure without some sort of gasket there is a non-zero amount of air leak.
  • This content has been removed.
  • Gardenstater
    Gardenstater Posts: 4,932
    edited September 23
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    I can see the gasket on the "oddball" crossover, pressed very thin. It is a bit out of alignment but should still be sealing. Check the other one too as maybe it is pressed so thin you aren't recognizing it's presence.

    If it was me I would grab that crossover even if I wasn't going to go ahead immediately with the caps and resistors upgrades. Everybody that likes their Polks eventually does it and it's considered a no brainer. 37 year old electrolytics are well past their prime lifetimes. ESR and DF get worse. Those mylar caps were not garbage but you can do so much better sound wise. The sandcast resistors are wirewound but frowned heavily upon. Crossovers for sale don't come up all that often. The configuration of the layout on that oddball PCB will have you cursing because of the extra difficulty it will cause you when you get around to it, which you probably will. Oh, and it will most likely come with a gasket stuck on and pressed thin from time.
    George / NJ

    Polk 7B main speakers, std. mods+ (1979, orig owner)
    Martin Logan Dynamo sub w/6ft 14awg Power Cord
    Onkyo A-8017 integrated
    Logitech Squeezebox Touch Streamer w/EDO applet
    iFi nano iDSD DAC
    iPurifier3
    iDefender w/ iPower PS
    Custom Steve Wilson 1m UPOCC Interconnect
    iFi Mercury 0.5m OFHC continuous cast copper USB cable
    Custom Ribbon Speaker Cables, 5ft long, 4N Copper, 14awg, ultra low inductance
    Custom Vibration Isolation Speaker Stands and Sub Platform
  • Father_Redbeard
    Options
    I can see the gasket on the "oddball" crossover, pressed very thin. It is a bit out of alignment but should still be sealing. Check the other one too as maybe it is pressed so thin you aren't recognizing it's presence.

    If it was me I would grab that crossover even if I wasn't going to go ahead immediately with the caps and resistors upgrade

    Ok, you convinced me. Placed the order for that. Is there a recommended parts list for the upgrade? I saw Sonicap mentioned but I'll be blunt: not going to spend that much for this project.

    Just need to get an idea of what I need to budget for when it comes time.
  • Gardenstater
    Gardenstater Posts: 4,932
    edited September 23
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    Most people these days are going for the Clarity Cap CSA, and yes, apparently it is not a problem to go with 33uF, at least I haven't heard anyone complain about a noticeable voicing change after upgrading. I went with Sonicaps but holy smokes those have gone up in price tremendously since I did it.

    https://partsconnexion.com/claritycap-capacitor-collection/?_bc_fsnf=1&Series[]=+CSA&Series[]=CSA&Value=33uF

    https://partsconnexion.com/claritycap-capacitor-12uf-250vdc-csa-series/

    If you are sure you won't do the tl mod in the future just jumper out the polyswitch with a lead clipping and go with the 2.5 Ohm 12W Mills. That's an upgrade in the fact that it is non inductive and handles more power so will warm up less when you crank it.

    https://partsconnexion.com/mills-resistor-2r5-2-5r-ohm-12w-mra-12-series-1-tolerance/

    Looks like around $144 w/o tax and shipping and any tariffs.
    George / NJ

    Polk 7B main speakers, std. mods+ (1979, orig owner)
    Martin Logan Dynamo sub w/6ft 14awg Power Cord
    Onkyo A-8017 integrated
    Logitech Squeezebox Touch Streamer w/EDO applet
    iFi nano iDSD DAC
    iPurifier3
    iDefender w/ iPower PS
    Custom Steve Wilson 1m UPOCC Interconnect
    iFi Mercury 0.5m OFHC continuous cast copper USB cable
    Custom Ribbon Speaker Cables, 5ft long, 4N Copper, 14awg, ultra low inductance
    Custom Vibration Isolation Speaker Stands and Sub Platform
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 52,406
    edited September 23
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    I'll throw this out there. The Monitor 7 is about as perfectly balanced a speaker as you'll find, a rare thing. IMO, it is worth putting good money into as the ROI is high.

    Edit: that is after you replace the nasty SL2000 tweeters.
  • This content has been removed.
  • billbillw
    billbillw Posts: 8,237
    edited September 23
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    Yeah, I'd definitely shop PartsExpress for supplies these days. Heck, even DigiKey is adding tarrifs on Nichicon caps. Not a huge amount, but it was around $5 extra for a $50 order.
    See profile for rigs. Nothing else here.
  • Father_Redbeard
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    F1nut wrote: »
    I'll throw this out there. The Monitor 7 is about as perfectly balanced a speaker as you'll find, a rare thing. IMO, it is worth putting good money into as the ROI is high.

    Edit: that is after you replace the nasty SL2000 tweeters.

    I'm impressed even with the current tweeters. Until I put some punk record on. Then it's REALLY noticeable. So far I haven't run into any other records that have ice picked me to death but I'm excited to see what these new tweeters will do.

    And I agree on investing in the speakers overall. Just need to pace myself with the fun money. Adulting is lame. :smiley:
  • Father_Redbeard
    Options
    Most people these days are going for the Clarity Cap CSA, and yes, apparently it is not a problem to go with 33uF, at least I haven't heard anyone complain about a noticeable voicing change after upgrading. I went with Sonicaps but holy smokes those have gone up in price tremendously since I did it.

    https://partsconnexion.com/claritycap-capacitor-collection/?_bc_fsnf=1&Series[]=+CSA&Series[]=CSA&Value=33uF

    https://partsconnexion.com/claritycap-capacitor-12uf-250vdc-csa-series/

    If you are sure you won't do the tl mod in the future just jumper out the polyswitch with a lead clipping and go with the 2.5 Ohm 12W Mills. That's an upgrade in the fact that it is non inductive and handles more power so will warm up less when you crank it.

    https://partsconnexion.com/mills-resistor-2r5-2-5r-ohm-12w-mra-12-series-1-tolerance/

    Looks like around $144 w/o tax and shipping and any tariffs.

    Is that for the TL mod or for the parts you listed?
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 52,406
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    That's not for the TL mod.
  • Gardenstater
    Gardenstater Posts: 4,932
    edited September 24
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    This is what Polk did after yours when they went to the Monitor 7 Series 2 just for the sake of interest. If I had seen this on eBay yesterday I would've brought your attention to it. Whole redesign of the schematic to work best with the SL2500 for which the upgrade is the RD0198-1. When Westmassguy (RIP) did the TL mod in that thread I gave the link to above he didn't have this crossover but was doing the Polk sanctioned mod to your crossover. Next best thing to having the redesigned from the ground up crossover. The TL mod would require that you replace the polyswitch with a 0.5 Ohm resistor and add a 5.8uF capacitor in parallel to the 2.0 Ohm tweeter resistor and the shunt inductor gets changed in value to .....can't remember atm (0.27mH). So it is more upgrade cost due to all the extra components (6 caps and 4 resistors and 2 inductors). If you had the crossovers below you would still have to buy 6 caps and 2 resistors. Since you purchased the RD0194-1 you won't be doing the TL mod and will only need the 4 caps and 2 resistors.

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/377502501272

    eaynsgnl39k1.jpg

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    George / NJ

    Polk 7B main speakers, std. mods+ (1979, orig owner)
    Martin Logan Dynamo sub w/6ft 14awg Power Cord
    Onkyo A-8017 integrated
    Logitech Squeezebox Touch Streamer w/EDO applet
    iFi nano iDSD DAC
    iPurifier3
    iDefender w/ iPower PS
    Custom Steve Wilson 1m UPOCC Interconnect
    iFi Mercury 0.5m OFHC continuous cast copper USB cable
    Custom Ribbon Speaker Cables, 5ft long, 4N Copper, 14awg, ultra low inductance
    Custom Vibration Isolation Speaker Stands and Sub Platform