The 1.2TL, Project Monolith

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  • ptrooper
    ptrooper Posts: 658
    edited August 28
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    ptrooper wrote: »
    Very Very nice ,I likem allot.
    The more I think of the MW’s bracing running parralell with the new tweeter bezels and with the side of the cabinet I beleive the main vibes will be kept vertically and ctr of the MW’s!
    Really can’t wait to get my ears on them!
    How’s the wiring coming along Trey?





    G'day @xschop, cheers for your time mate.

    Those steel semi-rings are glued in dead tight, so I’m not sure how much of a headache they'll be to rip out and reinstall. Reckon it's a bit of a win that they’re parallel with the tweeter bezels, though.

    If I leave 'em as is and add a cupping brace for the dowels to slot into—thinking a bit asymmetrically here—we could make the cups different sizes in each spot. That way, the baffle won't go vibrating entirely to one bloody frequency.

    Regarding internal volume, does anyone know the absolute minimum you can get away with before the signature sound goes completely cactus? I bet Darqueknight has documented it somewhere on this forum.

    I can picture some bow ties (completing the rings) cupping the dowels between the midwoofers. Has anyone actually measured the internal space between the MWs?

    Just a few things to ponder before I go hacking into it!
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  • xschop
    xschop Posts: 5,790
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    10 or 11 1" dowels wouldn't even take up half a cu. ft.
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  • ptrooper
    ptrooper Posts: 658
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    xschop wrote: »
    10 or 11 1" dowels wouldn't even take up half a cu. ft.

    Who needs AI with xschop around. B) Its a plan.

    I gather cups won't take up much internal volume ?,not forgetting the BH5 has convinced the system its physically larger ,I guess.

    I was thinking ,front baffle cup as one solid cup.

    For the rear dowel cups ,I was thinking segregated ,This would make working between to fixed points easier and won't add any sort of accidental positive mechanical pressure to baffles.

    All cups would also have some sort of spike/locks.

    I would check / use a straight edge on the front baffle before locking them in.

    Kiln dried dowels I believe would be a must!

    Let me know if I'm over thinking it,I just want the Duelund monoliths at their absolute best!

    The speed, debth, and dynamics in the imaging has increased immensely since adding the lumin and switch <3.It blows me away.

    I'm getting a dowel :p
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  • xschop
    xschop Posts: 5,790
    edited August 29
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    Plan on leaving the semi-rings as is. Take a pic and measurement between MW edges.

    Draw out the "cup" design you have in mind and go from there.
    Ponder it over a VeggieMite sandwich.🤔

    Also never heard back from you on your listening impression I requested...😅

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RY7S6EgSlCI
    Don't take experimental gene therapies from known eugenicists.
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  • ptrooper
    ptrooper Posts: 658
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    Fair dinkum, I’ve had these speakers for donkey's years and thought I knew 'em inside out, but ever since I threw the streamer and that switch into the mix, it’s a whole new ball game. They’ve barely done 90 hours between them and still need another 200 to 300 more hours to fully cook, but holy dooley, the difference already is choice!

    The background is now pitch black—dead silent, mate, with absolutely zero jitter—so the tunes just leap right out at you. The soundstage is vast as the outback, and the imaging is absolutely spot on. You can pinpoint every single instrument like they're standing right in front of you. The bottom end has so much detail it’s unreal. The bass isn't just a generic thump, you can hear every single layer and texture of the notes. Acca Dacca’s notes on Back in Black and Highway to Hell have never sounded so bloody real, and the whole presentation is so organic and natural, like Angus and the boys are jammin' right there in the room. All these tiny micro-details are floating around, completely filling the space like a swarm of mozzies at a bush barbie.

    It’s absolutely pumping, but the best bit is how bloody smooth it is. There's no harsh digital glare at all, so it’s completely non-fatiguing. I'm also really looking forward to bracing the baffles with dowels soon to see what kind of difference that makes—honestly, the thought of it gives me a proper woody. Knowing I've also got an upgraded DAC and mono blocks coming in the near future just gets me stoked. You can crack a tinny, sit back, and blast it for hours on end without it ever hurting your earholes. Honestly, it’s a proper ripper of a listening experience that completely blows my thongs off.
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  • ptrooper
    ptrooper Posts: 658
    edited August 30
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    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6FBfAQ-NDE&amp;vl=en
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  • Gardenstater
    Gardenstater Posts: 4,911
    edited August 30
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    It always amazes me when it comes to audio that you don't know what you're missing until you know it.

    BH5 isn't supposed to effect the enclosure volume because of the floating vinyl layer with the closed cell underneath. That floating layer tends to help with preventing sound transmission prevention. The No-Rez stuff does away with that layer.

    There have been a few ways people have done the braces, joebass3 made them out of square stock with v-blocks on the front and back so that the braces could be screwed into them. I think xschop and tool just power grabbed them into place with a slight clearance I guess, and SCompracer used a pocket hole jig and screwed and glued them into the front and back. I think another way might be with one end cut short (I'd use square stock with the corners rounded off at the router table) and at a slight angle and you could have a wedge that jams it and you could (maybe?) even listen to the configuration before gluing everything in place or maybe just tack glue with a few dabs of super glue that could be cut through (or just run a JB Weld fillet around everything) for the permanent glue. I'd use epoxy but I know that is overkill. I like overkill.

    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/YTGGRGbOGNs
    George / NJ

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  • ptrooper
    ptrooper Posts: 658
    edited August 30
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    Gardenstater wrote: »
    It always amazes me when it comes to audio that you don't know what you're missing until you know it.

    BH5 isn't supposed to effect the enclosure volume because of the floating vinyl layer with the closed cell underneath. That floating layer tends to help with preventing sound transmission prevention. The No-Rez stuff does away with that layer.

    Thanks @Gardenstater , I guessed wrong 😎thx for the heads up ! Appreciated.

    I wanna get some serious stiffness into this baffle , I beleive ,decent sized dowel cup base plates should do it .
    Glued and screwed
    The monoliths are really starting to wake up .

    Have you heard of any over bracing dramas?

    Cheers mate
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  • xschop
    xschop Posts: 5,790
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    I've done a few enclosures now, and the best way is measure front to back with a garment tape.

    Cut the dowel 1/16" longer, then belt sand til it is snug. Pre-glue enclosure where they will reside and press in to position. After that layer dries, go back and smear on a filet around the perimeter.
    Then shake those 1.2's boss.
    Don't take experimental gene therapies from known eugenicists.
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  • xschop
    xschop Posts: 5,790
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    Gardenstater wrote: »
    It always amazes me when it comes to audio that you don't know what you're missing until you know it.

    BH5 isn't supposed to effect the enclosure volume because of the floating vinyl layer with the closed cell underneath. That floating layer tends to help with preventing sound transmission prevention. The No-Rez stuff does away with that layer.

    There have been a few ways people have done the braces, joebass3 made them out of square stock with v-blocks on the front and back so that the braces could be screwed into them. I think xschop and tool just power grabbed them into place with a slight clearance I guess, and SCompracer used a pocket hole jig and screwed and glued them into the front and back. I think another way might be with one end cut short (I'd use square stock with the corners rounded off at the router table) and at a slight angle and you could have a wedge that jams it and you could (maybe?) even listen to the configuration before gluing everything in place or maybe just tack glue with a few dabs of super glue that could be cut through (or just run a JB Weld fillet around everything) for the permanent glue. I'd use epoxy but I know that is overkill. I like overkill.

    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/YTGGRGbOGNs

    I found my old tech drawing of removable pre-loaded compression rod device I drew up when I built those Tsi's.
    Would be spendy for a set of 1.2's however, why I suggested the dowels and some Power Grab.

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  • Gardenstater
    Gardenstater Posts: 4,911
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    The Jean Maurer speakers have that system, but with a woofer that is "isolated" from the baffle with soft rubber (probably sorbothane or the like) and then they use the "tension rod" (compression really!) that contacts the driver and pushes on it and in turn the driver pushes on the other end of the tension rod which is adjustable for length at the rear of the speaker which is a sand filled sandwich deal with other layers designed to dampen the driver's motion. That's the only speaker I've seen that on so far.
    George / NJ

    Polk 7B main speakers, std. mods+ (1979, orig owner)
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  • xschop
    xschop Posts: 5,790
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    Mine are designed from alloy hex rod to save machine time and have a pointed divet for placement accuracy. They'd have to be done on lathe.
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  • ptrooper
    ptrooper Posts: 658
    edited August 30
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    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBETVhHpcPk
    No limit.
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  • xschop
    xschop Posts: 5,790
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    I updated drawing for hand twist rod dowels and a locknut. Most of the vintage enclosures would only need two maybe three of them.

    cq89fkr5lt42.jpg
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  • motorstereo
    motorstereo Posts: 2,422
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    Why not a turnbuckle? Instead of gluing perhaps secure a nut with ears or washers attached on the outside with screws? Twist the the turnbuckle to the desired tightness and call it a day. If there's a thought of the metal being sonically reflective it's easy enough to put foam pipe insulators over them. Just a thought.
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  • ptrooper
    ptrooper Posts: 658
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    motorstereo wrote: »
    Why not a turnbuckle? Instead of gluing perhaps secure a nut with ears or washers attached on the outside with screws? Twist the the turnbuckle to the desired tightness and call it a day. If there's a thought of the metal being sonically reflective it's easy enough to put foam pipe insulators over them. Just a thought.

    Good to see the top paddock working,Deadset legends !To stop them making a racket, those buggers could just be hollow sand-filled jobs
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  • ptrooper
    ptrooper Posts: 658
    edited August 31
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    xschop wrote: »
    I updated drawing for hand twist rod dowels and a locknut. Most of the vintage enclosures would only need two maybe three of them.

    cq89fkr5lt42.jpg

    Righto, now we're on the money. looks like you've got it sussed.
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  • xschop
    xschop Posts: 5,790
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    motorstereo wrote: »
    Why not a turnbuckle? Instead of gluing perhaps secure a nut with ears or washers attached on the outside with screws? Twist the the turnbuckle to the desired tightness and call it a day. If there's a thought of the metal being sonically reflective it's easy enough to put foam pipe insulators over them. Just a thought.

    This simple design accomplishes the goal. Originally had a 3/4" hex rod drawn out, but a 1" round rod will seat by hand....Unless you're a girly-man.
    Don't take experimental gene therapies from known eugenicists.
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  • ptrooper
    ptrooper Posts: 658
    edited August 31
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    Lumin and switch at 110 hrs and <3
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIBv2GEnXlc
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  • xschop
    xschop Posts: 5,790
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    ptrooper wrote: »
    xschop wrote: »
    I updated drawing for hand twist rod dowels and a locknut. Most of the vintage enclosures would only need two maybe three of them.

    cq89fkr5lt42.jpg

    Righto, now we're on the money. looks like you've got it sussed.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2VBmHOYpV8
    Don't take experimental gene therapies from known eugenicists.
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  • ptrooper
    ptrooper Posts: 658
    edited September 1
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    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQUE_kuyI04
    Another Aussie tester .
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  • ptrooper
    ptrooper Posts: 658
    edited September 1
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    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLrnkK2YEcE
    Aussie electronic band. Test track
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  • ptrooper
    ptrooper Posts: 658
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    Last Aussie test track for the evening , the kiddies love this one at their medicated lazer light shows.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tx9zMFodNtA
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  • ptrooper
    ptrooper Posts: 658
    edited September 1
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    Good morning track to get you started
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqLRqzTp6Rk
    Still pondering the bracing . Pump it up!

    For a 270mm front-to-rear brace with a temperature swing from 18°C to 32°C linear expansion average data to consider for baffle stress:

    Aluminum: 0.087 mm (Highest expansion; risk of pushing/straining baffle joints at 32°C; prone to ringing)

    Steel: 0.045 mm (Half the expansion of aluminum; 3x stiffer than aluminum; heavy and needs damping)

    Hardwood (Longitudinal): 0.015 mm (Most thermally stable; matches wood/MDF cabinet behavior; excellent internal damping)

    Bottom Line: Hardwood expands 6x less than aluminium and 3x less than steel , making it the safest choice to avoid putting mechanical pre-stress on your speaker baffles.

    I know the expansion is really only minimal with 11 braces per enclosure but, mentally , I'd like to keep to the natural organic textured signiture the Mono's have!


    Like @Gardenstater stated, " I like overkill " This is what I am told I do with everything all the time.

    This is the "Duelund Monoliths" Motto

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  • ptrooper
    ptrooper Posts: 658
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    Aussie Aussie Aussie
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQ7XJG0Z2ho
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  • xschop
    xschop Posts: 5,790
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    Big question now is... Oak, fir, or maple, etc.?
    Don't take experimental gene therapies from known eugenicists.
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  • SCompRacer
    SCompRacer Posts: 9,371
    edited September 1
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    Threading wood dowel rods popped into my head changing a push broom handle. One pic shows a plastic coupling. Various size wood threading tools are available, 3/4," 1" and larger. Use two different size dowels, male and female threads. One could make threads longer/deeper for stability. Slobber glue on threads and tighten in place.

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  • ptrooper
    ptrooper Posts: 658
    edited September 2
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    xschop wrote: »
    Big question now is... Oak, fir, or maple, etc.?

    Decisions decisions, MMMMMMMMMMM.
    Maple

    I was aloud out of my bump proof room today, with crayons .
    Excited, I also took my highly sensitive magic poker ,nasal clearance device and did some serious baffle testing ,I found the area crayoned in red to be grooving to the tunes with a little too much enthusiasm.

    The green area will be the completion of xschops,special series ,duelund Monolith MW rings <3 .

    I believe this area is also at an extra advantage, the dowel may bypass the BH5 on its due coarse to the rear baffle? Happy,Happy, joy,joy.


    Yes,I’m a lazy ba-t-rd, as we say down under , the less the Monoliths comes apart, the better,I feel.

    What do you think ? It’s a plan.
    xcwt587m5r5o.jpeg

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZmjE1ilpVk


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  • xschop
    xschop Posts: 5,790
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    Knock it out.
    Where are the vibes settling at now?
    Don't take experimental gene therapies from known eugenicists.
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  • ptrooper
    ptrooper Posts: 658
    edited September 2
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    xschop wrote: »
    Knock it out.
    Where are the vibes settling at now?

    The area crayoned in red.. next to the tweeters ! the A 4 paper there was actually resting against the side of the tweeter bezels when,with my black crayon ,I did some frottage. :)

    Dowel Braces here will lock that tweeter array in rock solid. B)

    Its 1:30 pm here ,What are you doing awake, go back to sleep. :prchaakm07kt4.jpeg
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