Power Conditioner recommendations...

PowerPlant 15 in silver & PP20 in black is still available as of 4:50pm Nov 5

I’ve been experimenting with power solutions for a while, and honestly a good voltage regulator / conditioner can make a noticeable difference, especially with tube amps and sensitive sources like your Moon 680D.

If you’re looking at Shunyata, you’re already in the right zone — their Hydra and Denali lines are solid. They don’t choke dynamics like some cheaper conditioners, and noise reduction is great. Another brand worth considering is PS Audio (since you’re already using their AC5 cables). Their Power Plant regenerators aren’t cheap, but they actually rebuild the AC waveform, so they provide very stable power under load. For big amps like your Carver monoblocks, it’s one of the best options.

If you want something more budget-friendly, Furman Elite or Reference series are also reliable. They’re not as “audiophile-marketed” as Shunyata, but they offer excellent surge protection and voltage regulation without killing dynamics.

With your system, I’d put the monoblocks and the C2800 on the best regulator you can afford, and the AVR + sources on a secondary conditioner. The TV doesn’t need anything fancy.

TL;DR:
– Top pick: PS Audio Power Plant (best stability + performance)
– Great option: Shunyata Denali
– Value option: Furman Elite/Reference

Power is definitely the most overlooked part of a setup — upgrading it was one of the biggest “quiet improvements” I ever made.

skipshot12 wrote: »

The regeneration isolates all noise from the wall outlet.

With all due respect, I will beg to differ with you on this one. That's marketing BS. Even PS Audio has stated this. Even with galvanic isolation, some noise still gets through. Don't get me wrong, both help but both still allow noise to get through.

Tom

pitdogg2 wrote: »

treitz3 wrote: »

skipshot12 wrote: »

The regeneration isolates all noise from the wall outlet.

With all due respect, I will beg to differ with you on this one. That's marketing BS. Even PS Audio has stated this. Even with galvanic isolation, some noise still gets through. Don't get me wrong, both help but both still allow noise to get through.

Tom

Agree Tom. I think the only way to remove all is maybe like the old Richard Gray power plants. They took AC converted it to DC before sending out as AC once all the garbage was removed. Something about the conversion removed or the DC was hostile to it. Above my head probably.

Yep, those PS Audio regenerators just regenerate much of the noise in a nice sinusoidal wave.

Oh, boy. I didn't mean to get this involved. I just wanted to make a comment that they do not thwart all noise.

It has to do with the inductance within the magnetic fields (inductive coupling), a shared ground (even though hot and neutral are physically not a closed circuit), Capacitive coupling from conductors placed close together, allowing signals to "leak" from one to the other. Much of that has to do with layout and design, the frequency and voltage changes. Then there is your typical EMI/RFI which can be transferred across physical gaps, just like with a physical connection, and then there are the regenerator itself that may have limitations (some only go up to certain frequencies) and additional filtering is needed or added. Heck, the regenerator itself may even add noise.

While regenerators, isolation transformers and galvanic isolation devices can provide up to a significant change, depending on the noise that's present on the line to begin with, that does not mean that they automatically isolate all noise coming from the outlet and your homes electrical system. It's not like they are a Faraday cage for every type of electromagnetic noise, and even if it were? You would still have the physical ground connection to wreak havoc.

That's about as far as I'd like to get into it, there is more but this is the gist. This subject can get deeeeeep into the weeds. I didn't even touch leakage, vibration noise or a host of other things that can affect how one of these devices can transfer or even introduce noise into the system. What they can do (as mentioned before) is make a near perfect to perfect sine wave. But that's not all there is that we need to be thinking about when it comes to getting clean electrical for audio. There is much more to audio than a simple sine wave.

Plus, if you are streaming? HA! You just opened up/connected yet another can of noise (even with galvanic or optical isolation)....but I ain't goin' there. That's way too deep.

Hopefully, this answers your query. I am not sure about the differences or effectiveness between the units aforementioned.

Tom

skipshot12 wrote: »

Truly a rabbit hole right there.

No doubt.

Tom

Got my Puritan psm 156 at a great price, not looking anymore.

marvda1 wrote: »

Got my Puritan psm 156 at a great price, not looking anymore.

I love my 136. These are under the radar.

H9

At a point Richard Gray sold his company and let them use his name.

John, I guess that would depend on which RG product you are looking at. I have a RGPC 400 Pro that was utilized in my various systems since about 18 years ago or so. It was system dependent as to its effectiveness and as my system progressed, about 2 or 3 years ago, I found that it tended to slightly shrink the sound stage when the main components were plugged into it versus plugged directly into the wall. With my lesser systems, it was great. Especially with the various power hungry SS Carver amps I used back in the day.

The RG 400 Pro was switched to supporting the streaming support components only (switch, router, LPS's, etc.) about 2 or 3 years ago and utilizing it this way, it actually enhanced the performance of the rig. This time it increased the width and depth. When I got a AQ Niagara 1000, I put the Pro 400 out in the LR rig. There was discernibly very little to no difference between the RG and the AQ, but the AQ had 2 additional outlets that came in very handy as my streaming rig components grew.

When I swapped out the AQ with the Equi=Core 1000 for the same support components for the streaming rig, there was a very noticeable uptick in width, depth and clean sound. That said, I have not tried any of the main components on it (You would not want to plug in your Carver tube amps into them). One other note to introduce, the Equi=Core was introduced after all of the other noise abating gear had already been installed throughout my rig.

I have zero experience with the other RG products, only the 400 Pro. That unit uses a large inductor (choke) to reduce noise and basically "rebuilds" the AC line. Of the three I mentioned in this post, the Equi=Core easily bested the other two, but that's not saying that other higher end or newer RG products wouldn't improve over that.

Tom

Took this from an AI Generated Overview explanation of the PS Audio P1000 PowerPlant...

"The PS Audio P1000 adjusts voltage by first reconstructing the AC power using an internal amplifier to create a new, clean waveform, and then regulating the output voltage to a user-set stable level, regardless of input voltage fluctuations. It achieves this by actively rebuilding the power, rather than just filtering it, so it can dynamically correct for both high and low input voltage, as well as power supply "sags" that occur when a connected system demands more current."

The P1000 also has the ability to change the Wave Form, "Mulitiwave", for what some say is beneficial to tubed gear. I'd have to ask the users with tubed gear to tell what those benefits are as I've never owned any tubed audio pieces.
Not positive but, I think PS Audio dropped that feature with the newer P3-P20 PowerPlants?

In layman's terms, perhaps. In reality, a different outcome awaits. Honestly, I have stated way more than I wanted to in one of my previous posts. All I know is what I know, based upon what my ears have observed over the years.

While I am not a fan of chat GPT, A.I., Siri or whatever else is out there, I would invite you (or anyone else who is curious) to just inquire with any one of them. I will not be going down this road any further, as I am more than willing to offer anyone my experience and observations, but for the most part, I hate getting into the weeds with the technical part of things. That chit bores the ever living crap out of me. The only reason it ever will interest me, is if it enhances MY rig. Then I will get deep into the nitty gritty, regardless of how long it takes me.

That said, my research is mainly for me and my system. My main goal for being on forums is to learn, share ideas and information, furthering my audio journey. That said, maybe technology can answer your query about defying logic. I simply don't want any part of the technicalities beyond what I have shared already.

I hate to say this, but when it comes to speaking about noise? I gotta stop and take pause as I have been told before on this forum to basically shut my mouth. So, respectfully, if it defies logic to you, then I suggest asking the current technology available to everyone on any A.I. type platform this...

Can a device which converts the AC to DC then DC to AC pass any noise from the original AC source?

FWIW, ever since that cheap $14 Ethernet cable upgrade about 2 years ago? I have learned quite a bit about noise. While I am not an expert, I am very well versed on it. More so than I EVER thought I would be.

Tom

Jaguar audio has a 45 day trial period on the puritan conditioners.

The answer is still no.

AC-DC-AC Conversion and Noise Propagation

The question of whether a device that converts AC to DC and then back to AC passes noise from the original AC source is complex and depends heavily on the design and components of the converter. In essence, such a device, often referred to as a power inverter or a DC-AC converter preceded by an AC-DC rectifier, aims to produce a clean AC output from a potentially noisy AC input. However, perfect isolation of noise is rarely achieved in practical systems.
Understanding Noise in Power Systems

Noise in electrical systems refers to unwanted electrical signals that interfere with the desired signal. In AC power systems, noise can manifest in various forms, including harmonics, transients, electromagnetic interference (EMI), and radio frequency interference (RFI) (Power Electronics: Converters, Applications, and Design).
Harmonics

Harmonics are sinusoidal voltages or currents at frequencies that are integer multiples of the fundamental frequency (e.g., 50 Hz or 60 Hz). They are typically generated by non-linear loads, such as rectifiers, switching power supplies, and arc furnaces. Harmonics can cause increased losses in transformers and motors, overheating, and interference with sensitive electronic equipment (The Electrical Engineering Handbook).
Transients

Transients are short-duration, high-magnitude voltage or current surges. They can be caused by lightning strikes, switching operations (e.g., capacitor bank switching, load switching), or faults in the power system. Transients can damage electronic components and disrupt system operation (Power System Transients: Theory and Application).
Electromagnetic Interference (EMI) and Radio Frequency Interference (RFI)

EMI and RFI are unwanted electromagnetic signals that can interfere with the operation of electronic devices. They can be conducted through power lines or radiated through the air. Sources of EMI/RFI include switching power supplies, motors, and communication equipment (Electromagnetic Compatibility Engineering).
AC-DC Conversion (Rectification)

The first stage in the AC-DC-AC conversion process is AC-DC rectification. This stage converts the incoming AC voltage into a DC voltage. The most common rectifiers use diodes to allow current to flow in only one direction.
Diode Rectifiers

Simple diode rectifiers, such as half-wave or full-wave rectifiers, produce a pulsating DC output. This pulsating DC contains significant ripple, which is essentially AC noise superimposed on the DC voltage. The ripple frequency is typically twice the input AC frequency for full-wave rectifiers. The magnitude of the ripple depends on the load and the filtering applied (Fundamentals of Electric Circuits).
Filtered Rectifiers

To reduce the ripple, filters are employed after the rectifier. The most common type of filter is a capacitor filter, which smooths out the pulsating DC by storing charge during the peaks of the rectified voltage and discharging it during the valleys. Inductors can also be used in conjunction with capacitors to form LC filters, providing more effective ripple reduction (Power Electronics: Converters, Applications, and Design).

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