Got the turntable itch

skipshot12 wrote: »

You’d have to be in the 5 thousand dollar range and above to get a GT2000x that’s been gone thru, upgraded & calibrated to factory specs.

One should check out captmark09 on YouTube and see what he does.
This is “the person” to purchase these tables from.

But, you can get into a GT2000 & GT2000L, that have been completely gone thru & upgraded for 2-3k.

captmark09 is very knowledgeable and helpful. I got my DP-59L from him.

Sorry I missed the info in the signature. It doesn't show up when viewing on my phone. The DP-1200 looks like a fine tt, with rumble of -75dB, so it should be very quiet already. I have both a DP-2000 and DP-3000 in my tt stable. The Shure V15-V with JICO SAS stylus is a nice MM choice, but trying an MC cart might help scratch your itch. But, you'd either need an SUT to go into your PAS-4 MM phono input, or get a new external phonostage.

I don't how easy it would be to install a different tonearm on your DP-1200, but it is something to consider. However, you would lose the semi-auto functionality.

One other thing regarding the outer ring, and specifically warps, is that warps can introduce a wow & flutter effect, so eliminating/reducing that is certainly a good thing. The peaks and troughs created by warps means that the stylus rake angle (SRA) is always changing, which can affect the frequency in playback. Also, with a tonearm that has static balancing, the peaks (in particular) with a warped record can be problematic in extreme cases. When the stylus rides up a peak, it can have less-than-optimal contact with the groove as it crests over the peak. Think of a race car on a road track when it crests a hill, and gets a little air. A stylus won't likely actually lose contact with the vinyl, but of course we're trying to maintain consistent and constant contact with steady VTF.

Back to the cartridge, Shures are known to have a warmer sound, with a faster HF roll-off, although that JICO SAS might minimize that. But, you might enjoy trying a different house sound. Also, an external phonostage with adjustable load settings will help you dial-in whatever cartridge you use.

muncybob wrote: »

The tonearm is the original stock arm. I would not want to lose the semi-auto feature.

I love the looks of the DP1200 and don't get me wrong...I am satisfied with the sound, it's just one of those "you don't know what you may be missing" deals with me.

Fortunately I have very few records that have any visible warping and one of the claims to fame this cart had was that it tracked very well and i tend to agree with that. After all the input here, I'm thinking I may try a different phono stage to see if the Dynaco pre does indeed have the good reputation previous reviews have stated.

Been enjoying the comments here, thanks!

Where are you located?
If you are near by I would bring over a tt so you could do a comparison in your system, with your cartridge, to see if a change may be what you’re looking for.

I’ll say this, a tt is just a machine to spin a record. The differences between tables are minimal at a certain rumble, W&F and speed control.
The things that will make the largest difference, better/worse, are your cartridge, tonearm, preamp with phono stage and a dedicated phono stage.

skipshot12 wrote: »

muncybob wrote: »

The tonearm is the original stock arm. I would not want to lose the semi-auto feature.

I love the looks of the DP1200 and don't get me wrong...I am satisfied with the sound, it's just one of those "you don't know what you may be missing" deals with me.

Fortunately I have very few records that have any visible warping and one of the claims to fame this cart had was that it tracked very well and i tend to agree with that. After all the input here, I'm thinking I may try a different phono stage to see if the Dynaco pre does indeed have the good reputation previous reviews have stated.

Been enjoying the comments here, thanks!

Where are you located?
If you are near by I would bring over a tt so you could do a comparison in your system, with your cartridge, to see if a change may be what you’re looking for.

I’ll say this, a tt is just a machine to spin a record. The differences between tables are minimal at a certain rumble, W&F and speed control.
The things that will make the largest difference, better/worse, are your cartridge, tonearm, preamp with phono stage and a dedicated phono stage.

Hey Skip, what's the story with tonearms and their effect on sound/presentation?

@Toolfan66 I hope that outer ring doesn't interfere with the belt path and motor pulley on your VPI Scout.

Regarding tonearms: the basic comparison is trying to match tonearm effective mass with cartridge compliance. Higher tonearm mass should be matched with phono cartridges that have lower (stiffer) compliance/suspension, which is typically MC carts. Conversely, lower tonearm mass should be matched with cartridges that have higher (looser) compliance/suspension, which is typically MM carts. The effective mass of tonearms is not often disclosed, so interpretation is usually up to the user.

Toolfan66 wrote: »

jdjohn wrote: »

@Toolfan66 I hope that outer ring doesn't interfere with the belt path and motor pulley on your VPI Scout.

I’m a little concerned about this, but more with the weights that screw underneath, but I would rather have the option than not, if I just end up using the ring itself, it still should show me a difference if there is one,
If I don’t like it, I will return it, all I will be out is shipping..

I think that's partly why there is an option for different length weights. Looks like the SS-1 comes with 10mm weights with an option for 5mm ones.

The SS-1 is 2.6lbs by itself. The weights add another 0.6lbs (0.35lbs for the 5mm)
You should still experience significant refinement with just the SS-1 itself if the weights interfere with your belt.

For comparison, the SS-T that I use on my Technics SL-1210 table is 2.1lbs

There's also the SS-U option, which has mass without drop weights, however, it's a wider ring, and maybe a bit taller (extending downard). It weighs 3.2lbs.

I know it sounds like I push these rings and clamps and get some kinda commission, but I really just spread the word because I enjoy these two pieces so much. I wanted a periphery ring for years, but the last company that made them, or was working on one for Technics tables, closed years ago. I only just discovered Wayne's Audio back when @nooshinjohn posted about seeing if anyone would be interested in finding some company to start making some rings.
https://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/177227/turntable-outer-ring-clamp-interest-list/p1

Just throwing this out there - anyone interested in any of his products should email Wayne off his website for "consultation" and pricing.

Also of note - when mounting the ring, depending on the record diameter, there can be a bit of "eccentricity", since the ledge built into the ring is wide enough to allow for slightly different diameter records. There's a technique I use to get the ring mostly centered. Basically just place the ring, and using the seating tool, adjust the ring up or down until you're feeling it approximately mid-centered. Remove the seating tool, rotate the record 90°, and repeat. I've found this reduces eccentricity. There's not much play, but even 0.5mm - 1.0mm can make a difference, and make it look like the ring is on an elliptical path as the platter rotates.

This my setup of the SS-T ring and the WS-2 center clamp on an SL-1210. The two of these together add about 4lbs of mass to the platter. I'm currently using a thin Fluance silicone mat, but am planning to try the Sound Damped Steel Platter Mat

I can highly recommend any of the Well Tempered turntables as excellent sounding. That is where I would look.

That’s a good price for a DD tt.

I did not know they were reasonable in price.
The last direct drive, newer tt, I saw was the VPU when it came out. Was way not affordable.

VPI

Calling @deadbeat_Toolfan66 for an update/details/new thread, or update on the ring clamp tredd. (Brian told me to ask)
https://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/177227/turntable-outer-ring-clamp-interest-list/p1

So, Bob? Any news, ideas, progress, or threats from the wife to slit your throat in your sleep?

Interesting. What sold you on the Ultradeck over the Technics?

msg wrote: »

Interesting. What sold you on the Ultradeck over the Technics?

This is several years ago now, so take it with a grain of salt. Also not the best comparison, but it was a true buying experience. I asked the dealer if I could demo the UD with the Mofi MasterTracker, but I requested we pair the Technics with the cart of his choice that would put the two turntables at about the same price OTD. And I don't remember any more which cart he selected with the Technics, but I figure that's important info for this. He also had me bring in my Sutherland 20/20 to have a little more comparison compared to what I was using at home.

At the end of the day, the Mofi was a little smoother, and a little less bright in that demo. That's the main thing I remember. My system at that time was already a little bright, so it felt like a better fit. Compared to the 1200GR, the Mofi also felt a little more substantial to me from what I recall.

Could have been the cart. Could have been the other associated equipment, could have been the day. Both were honestly great. Now the pricing isn't quite the same, which gives the mofi a real edge in my mind.

I can tell you this though, while the Mofi has been very low maintained, I have had to change the belt and lube the bearing. I probably wouldn't have had to do anything at all on the Technics. And I think about that constantly when I consider upgrading. The 1200G has always kept my attention because of that.

Gotcha on the timeframe and details. Really insightful info across the board.

Still though - interesting that the Mofi won out for you at that time. Yeah, I was thinking possibly the cart on the Technics as I was reading through before I got to the part where you mentioned it.

I will say, though, that after reading up on the UltraDeck, there are some really neat design refinements in that table that put it above those like the lower/mid level Pro-ject Debut Carbon type tables, which itself is a pretty decent setup, if not light and slight imho. I prefer more heft in a turntable.

I go back and forth between Technics-love, and the simplicity of the "audiophile turntable" builds. You know, that type of build? - Simple MDF plinth, nearly just the absolute bare essentials for starters. I have a Pro-ject Debut Carbon with Orto Red on long-term loan that's nice for a change. It has the acrylic platter upgrade, as well as the Speedbox. I use a Fluance platter mat with it, and had not had a chance to try it with the Wayne's Edge Clamp; might be too heavy for that light of a build and its belt drive.

I returned to the Technics, preferring it overall, now, as I've chosen it for the baseline for modding/accessorizing, so it's more involving for me. Still have some things I'd like to do with the 1200/1210 platform.

I used to hate those audiophile-simple tables, but they grew on me quite a bit after getting the Pro-ject running. I should give it another shot for comparison. My system's evolved quite a bit since I last used it.

TroyD wrote: »

So, couple thoughts here……no experience with the MoFi decks but have heard nothing but good things…..

That said, I’ve never been a DD turntable guy……I’ve played around with a couple older Denon’s, high cool factor but just never struck my fancy.

The older AR turntables just sound good. Way better than they should and are relatively unfussy and plentifuI. What I don’t like is setting up cartridges on an AR.

I have had a VPI Scoutmaster for about 15 years and am a big fan of the Scout series….what I like is that it’s the one thing I have never had the desire to upgrade.

Rega, makes an eminently simple and musical deck. I’ve had a P1, P3 and have a tricked out P6 in the living room. Groovetracer makes some great aftermarket upgrades that give more audiophile satisfaction….better treble extension, better bass and so forth but, man, nothing carries a tune like a Rega. If I were looking for a table to grow with….this is the route I would go.

Just my .02

I also demoed a P6 at the time, with a separate dealer on a separate day. I don't really want to speak to the sound given the totally different system and some time between, but functionally it does feel like a great middle ground between the two. Tweakable, more of the belt driven sound, great tone arm system, probably more upgradable than the 1200GR or the Mofi UD.

My biggest hesitation there was the cartridge situation. I wasn't sure yet if I was going to be a one and done type of cart person, or if I was going to have a desire to experiment regularly. The idea of needing shims for certain carts felt limiting. Now I recognize that I'm not a cart swapper, and I easily could be the type of person to go full Rega vinyl front end honestly.

I think I could be quite happy with a P8 > Apheta 3 > Aria phono chain. $6700 all in. Obviously above what we are talking about here, but I always day dream about the next upgrade path.

@muncybob Mentioned that he wanted to keep auto-return. I honestly don't know if any of the tt's being discussed here have that. I kind of doubt it, but have not checked them all.

Personally, I like the size and heft of my vintage Technics and Micro Seiki tt's.

@muncybob said on page 2 of this thread:

The tonearm is the original stock arm. I would not want to lose the semi-auto feature.