Got the turntable itch

Toolfan66

skipshot12 wrote: »

For around 2k one could probably land a Yamaha GT2000.
Would be hard to find anything built today, at that price, that could top it.
May get into a GT2000L, forget about landing an X in that price range.

I would never spend that coin on an X without knowing the history of it..

Beautiful table though..

skipshot12

You’d have to be in the 5 thousand dollar range and above to get a GT2000x that’s been gone thru, upgraded & calibrated to factory specs.

One should check out captmark09 on YouTube and see what he does.
This is “the person” to purchase these tables from.

But, you can get into a GT2000 & GT2000L, that have been completely gone thru & upgraded for 2-3k.

skipshot12

What Tool said….
Never buy any vintage tt’s unless one knows they’ve been diagnosed, repaired, upgraded & calibrated by someone that knows what they’re doing.
Unless, of course, you can do all of that yourself 😂

msg

pitdogg2 wrote: »

But can you hit 4 on your remote from your seat to get to track 4......

Yeah, so, Bob, along the lines of what Ivan's saying - another idea is to just spin a record, any record, but instead of actually listening to the record, just stream or play the CD of what you want to listen to, and pretend it's the vinyl record you're hearing. It's a lot cheaper.

tratliff

skipshot12 wrote: »

You’d have to be in the 5 thousand dollar range and above to get a GT2000x that’s been gone thru, upgraded & calibrated to factory specs.

One should check out captmark09 on YouTube and see what he does.
This is “the person” to purchase these tables from.

But, you can get into a GT2000 & GT2000L, that have been completely gone thru & upgraded for 2-3k.

captmark09 is very knowledgeable and helpful. I got my DP-59L from him.

Joey_V

Love all this TT talk. I’m a big fan of analog.

jdjohn

Sorry I missed the info in the signature. It doesn't show up when viewing on my phone. The DP-1200 looks like a fine tt, with rumble of -75dB, so it should be very quiet already. I have both a DP-2000 and DP-3000 in my tt stable. The Shure V15-V with JICO SAS stylus is a nice MM choice, but trying an MC cart might help scratch your itch. But, you'd either need an SUT to go into your PAS-4 MM phono input, or get a new external phonostage.

I don't how easy it would be to install a different tonearm on your DP-1200, but it is something to consider. However, you would lose the semi-auto functionality.

One other thing regarding the outer ring, and specifically warps, is that warps can introduce a wow & flutter effect, so eliminating/reducing that is certainly a good thing. The peaks and troughs created by warps means that the stylus rake angle (SRA) is always changing, which can affect the frequency in playback. Also, with a tonearm that has static balancing, the peaks (in particular) with a warped record can be problematic in extreme cases. When the stylus rides up a peak, it can have less-than-optimal contact with the groove as it crests over the peak. Think of a race car on a road track when it crests a hill, and gets a little air. A stylus won't likely actually lose contact with the vinyl, but of course we're trying to maintain consistent and constant contact with steady VTF.

Back to the cartridge, Shures are known to have a warmer sound, with a faster HF roll-off, although that JICO SAS might minimize that. But, you might enjoy trying a different house sound. Also, an external phonostage with adjustable load settings will help you dial-in whatever cartridge you use.

muncybob

The tonearm is the original stock arm. I would not want to lose the semi-auto feature.

I love the looks of the DP1200 and don't get me wrong...I am satisfied with the sound, it's just one of those "you don't know what you may be missing" deals with me.

Fortunately I have very few records that have any visible warping and one of the claims to fame this cart had was that it tracked very well and i tend to agree with that. After all the input here, I'm thinking I may try a different phono stage to see if the Dynaco pre does indeed have the good reputation previous reviews have stated.

Been enjoying the comments here, thanks!

Toolfan66

Well, this thread, or I should say Scott, got me to pull the trigger on a Wayne's Audio SS-1 Ring Clamp.

And again, this place finds a way for me to spend money..



.

skipshot12

muncybob wrote: »

The tonearm is the original stock arm. I would not want to lose the semi-auto feature.

I love the looks of the DP1200 and don't get me wrong...I am satisfied with the sound, it's just one of those "you don't know what you may be missing" deals with me.

Fortunately I have very few records that have any visible warping and one of the claims to fame this cart had was that it tracked very well and i tend to agree with that. After all the input here, I'm thinking I may try a different phono stage to see if the Dynaco pre does indeed have the good reputation previous reviews have stated.

Been enjoying the comments here, thanks!

Where are you located?
If you are near by I would bring over a tt so you could do a comparison in your system, with your cartridge, to see if a change may be what you’re looking for.

I’ll say this, a tt is just a machine to spin a record. The differences between tables are minimal at a certain rumble, W&F and speed control.
The things that will make the largest difference, better/worse, are your cartridge, tonearm, preamp with phono stage and a dedicated phono stage.

muncybob

We are near Williamsport, Pa. Nobody lives near us

msg

skipshot12 wrote: »

muncybob wrote: »

The tonearm is the original stock arm. I would not want to lose the semi-auto feature.

I love the looks of the DP1200 and don't get me wrong...I am satisfied with the sound, it's just one of those "you don't know what you may be missing" deals with me.

Fortunately I have very few records that have any visible warping and one of the claims to fame this cart had was that it tracked very well and i tend to agree with that. After all the input here, I'm thinking I may try a different phono stage to see if the Dynaco pre does indeed have the good reputation previous reviews have stated.

Been enjoying the comments here, thanks!

Where are you located?
If you are near by I would bring over a tt so you could do a comparison in your system, with your cartridge, to see if a change may be what you’re looking for.

I’ll say this, a tt is just a machine to spin a record. The differences between tables are minimal at a certain rumble, W&F and speed control.
The things that will make the largest difference, better/worse, are your cartridge, tonearm, preamp with phono stage and a dedicated phono stage.

Hey Skip, what's the story with tonearms and their effect on sound/presentation?

Toolfan66

Toolfan66 wrote: »

Well, this thread, or I should say Scott, got me to pull the trigger on a Wayne's Audio SS-1 Ring Clamp.

And again, this place finds a way for me to spend money..



.

WOW, ordered it on Christmas Eve, shipped same day, will be here on Friday!! Super Fast!!!

Looking forward to trying this out!!

skipshot12

msg wrote: »

skipshot12 wrote: »

muncybob wrote: »

The tonearm is the original stock arm. I would not want to lose the semi-auto feature.

I love the looks of the DP1200 and don't get me wrong...I am satisfied with the sound, it's just one of those "you don't know what you may be missing" deals with me.

Fortunately I have very few records that have any visible warping and one of the claims to fame this cart had was that it tracked very well and i tend to agree with that. After all the input here, I'm thinking I may try a different phono stage to see if the Dynaco pre does indeed have the good reputation previous reviews have stated.

Been enjoying the comments here, thanks!

Where are you located?
If you are near by I would bring over a tt so you could do a comparison in your system, with your cartridge, to see if a change may be what you’re looking for.

I’ll say this, a tt is just a machine to spin a record. The differences between tables are minimal at a certain rumble, W&F and speed control.
The things that will make the largest difference, better/worse, are your cartridge, tonearm, preamp with phono stage and a dedicated phono stage.

Hey Skip, what's the story with tonearms and their effect on sound/presentation?

Oooooph....
That's a good question.

Longer pivot arms are better than short pivot arms. Has to do with the angle of error while playing an LP/Record.
What does tracking angle error sound like?

Tangential arms eliminate tracking angle error as they play (track) the record in the manner they were cut with the lathe.
How to explain what that sounds like vs a pivot arm, I cannot.

Damping Tonearms to help with resonances.
Some manufacturers used oil with paddles (SME) while others used sensor motors (Denon, Sony etc.).
What might this approach do to effect the sound?

All these types of arms have pluses and minuses.

The thing it all comes down to is which one do you prefer. Which sounds best to you?
One of the reasons most honest folks say that you have to use your own ears. It's a process of taking the time to listen to as many different choices as possible.

Hope others that can actually explain, in words, what the differences/effects/approach in sound.... actually sounds like


Skip


P.S. One thing I can say regarding tt's is go with the most your wallet can take. You do get what you pay for and.... you do get what you don't pay for.

jdjohn

@Toolfan66 I hope that outer ring doesn't interfere with the belt path and motor pulley on your VPI Scout.

Regarding tonearms: the basic comparison is trying to match tonearm effective mass with cartridge compliance. Higher tonearm mass should be matched with phono cartridges that have lower (stiffer) compliance/suspension, which is typically MC carts. Conversely, lower tonearm mass should be matched with cartridges that have higher (looser) compliance/suspension, which is typically MM carts. The effective mass of tonearms is not often disclosed, so interpretation is usually up to the user.

Toolfan66

jdjohn wrote: »

@Toolfan66 I hope that outer ring doesn't interfere with the belt path and motor pulley on your VPI Scout.

I’m a little concerned about this, but more with the weights that screw underneath, but I would rather have the option than not, if I just end up using the ring itself, it still should show me a difference if there is one,
If I don’t like it, I will return it, all I will be out is shipping..

SCompRacer

Just to expand on jdjohns post, the Galen Carol site has a great detailed explantion about cartridge/tone arm compliance.

https://www.gcaudio.com/tips-tricks/tonearm-cartridge-compatability/

msg

Toolfan66 wrote: »

jdjohn wrote: »

@Toolfan66 I hope that outer ring doesn't interfere with the belt path and motor pulley on your VPI Scout.

I’m a little concerned about this, but more with the weights that screw underneath, but I would rather have the option than not, if I just end up using the ring itself, it still should show me a difference if there is one,
If I don’t like it, I will return it, all I will be out is shipping..

I think that's partly why there is an option for different length weights. Looks like the SS-1 comes with 10mm weights with an option for 5mm ones.

The SS-1 is 2.6lbs by itself. The weights add another 0.6lbs (0.35lbs for the 5mm)
You should still experience significant refinement with just the SS-1 itself if the weights interfere with your belt.

For comparison, the SS-T that I use on my Technics SL-1210 table is 2.1lbs

There's also the SS-U option, which has mass without drop weights, however, it's a wider ring, and maybe a bit taller (extending downard). It weighs 3.2lbs.

I know it sounds like I push these rings and clamps and get some kinda commission, but I really just spread the word because I enjoy these two pieces so much. I wanted a periphery ring for years, but the last company that made them, or was working on one for Technics tables, closed years ago. I only just discovered Wayne's Audio back when @nooshinjohn posted about seeing if anyone would be interested in finding some company to start making some rings.
https://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/177227/turntable-outer-ring-clamp-interest-list/p1

Just throwing this out there - anyone interested in any of his products should email Wayne off his website for "consultation" and pricing.

Also of note - when mounting the ring, depending on the record diameter, there can be a bit of "eccentricity", since the ledge built into the ring is wide enough to allow for slightly different diameter records. There's a technique I use to get the ring mostly centered. Basically just place the ring, and using the seating tool, adjust the ring up or down until you're feeling it approximately mid-centered. Remove the seating tool, rotate the record 90°, and repeat. I've found this reduces eccentricity. There's not much play, but even 0.5mm - 1.0mm can make a difference, and make it look like the ring is on an elliptical path as the platter rotates.

This my setup of the SS-T ring and the WS-2 center clamp on an SL-1210. The two of these together add about 4lbs of mass to the platter. I'm currently using a thin Fluance silicone mat, but am planning to try the Sound Damped Steel Platter Mat

Toolfan66

msg wrote: »

Toolfan66 wrote: »

jdjohn wrote: »

@Toolfan66 I hope that outer ring doesn't interfere with the belt path and motor pulley on your VPI Scout.

I’m a little concerned about this, but more with the weights that screw underneath, but I would rather have the option than not, if I just end up using the ring itself, it still should show me a difference if there is one,
If I don’t like it, I will return it, all I will be out is shipping..

I think that's partly why there is an option for different length weights. Looks like the SS-1 comes with 10mm weights with an option for 5mm ones.

The SS-1 is 2.6lbs by itself. The weights add another 0.6lbs (0.35lbs for the 5mm)
You should still experience significant refinement with just the SS-1 itself if the weights interfere with your belt.

For comparison, the SS-T that I use on my Technics SL-1210 table is 2.1lbs

There's also the SS-U option, which has mass without drop weights, however, it's a wider ring, and maybe a bit taller (extending downard). It weighs 3.2lbs.

I know it sounds like I push these rings and clamps and get some kinda commission, but I really just spread the word because I enjoy these two pieces so much. I wanted a periphery ring for years, but the last company that made them, or was working on one for Technics tables, closed years ago. I only just discovered Wayne's Audio back when @nooshinjohn posted about seeing if anyone would be interested in finding some company to start making some rings.
https://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/177227/turntable-outer-ring-clamp-interest-list/p1

Just throwing this out there - anyone interested in any of his products should email Wayne off his website for "consultation" and pricing.

Also of note - when mounting the ring, depending on the record diameter, there can be a bit of "eccentricity", since the ledge built into the ring is wide enough to allow for slightly different diameter records. There's a technique I use to get the ring mostly centered. Basically just place the ring, and using the seating tool, adjust the ring up or down until you're feeling it approximately mid-centered. Remove the seating tool, rotate the record 90°, and repeat. I've found this reduces eccentricity. There's not much play, but even 0.5mm - 1.0mm can make a difference, and make it look like the ring is on an elliptical path as the platter rotates.

This my setup of the SS-T ring and the WS-2 center clamp on an SL-1210. The two of these together add about 4lbs of mass to the platter. I'm currently using a thin Fluance silicone mat, but am planning to try the Sound Damped Steel Platter Mat

Looks great Scott, I figured if needed, I can make my own weights at work.

I know this thread has ventured off on a couple different roads, my apologies on my part.

But it’s really Scott’s fault!! 😁

Upstatemax

I'm a big fan of the Pro-Ject line of TT's.

I picked up the X1 to replace my old Debut Carbon, and I'm really happy with it.

If I had a $2k budget for a new TT right now, I would probably get the X2 B and keep some $$$ in my pocket for the eventual tweaks and accessories you'll want.

https://www.turntablelab.com/products/pro-ject-x2-b-turntable

I have had excellent experiences with TT Lab. Never had to return anything with them, so not sure how they are in that department.

I do like that the X2 from them comes with a Sumiko cart (Rainier) that's easily upgraded with a stylus swap, should you get the itch. My X1 came with an Olympia and I'm a lot happier with it over my old Ortofon 2M Red. No itch to upgrade from the Olympia stylus, yet.

SeleniumFalcon

I can highly recommend any of the Well Tempered turntables as excellent sounding. That is where I would look.

Clipdat

Something direct drive FTW.

Edit: This thing looks dope: https://www.crutchfield.com/S-6Xh7ZfTXo7x/p_1331210G2K/Technics-SL-1210GR2-Black.html

skipshot12

That’s a good price for a DD tt.

I did not know they were reasonable in price.
The last direct drive, newer tt, I saw was the VPU when it came out. Was way not affordable.

VPI

Toolfan66

So, I have been enjoying the Wayne’s Audio Ring, I did have to take the weights off, they are just barely touching the band, I will modify these myself, or just make new ones.
But the ring itself makes a great deal of difference, listening to Berlin Love Life, and Pleasure Victim, both LP’s sound phenomenal..

Edit: I am able to use the weights when playing my One Step Vinyl, as the band has to be moved lower for 45rpm, Van Halen II sounds incredible..

bcwsrt

Can you describe the differences in the sound that you are picking up on, Larry?

msg

Calling @deadbeat_Toolfan66 for an update/details/new thread, or update on the ring clamp tredd. (Brian told me to ask)
https://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/177227/turntable-outer-ring-clamp-interest-list/p1

So, Bob? Any news, ideas, progress, or threats from the wife to slit your throat in your sleep?

displayname

marvda1 wrote: »

Mofi

Joey_V wrote: »

I think at that price, def check the MoFi stuff. Good sale going on last I checked.

I've had the Mofi Ultradeck since it came out, and I've been quite happy with it. Demoed it side by side with the Technics 1200GR, and I also looked closely at the Rega P6. You'll pay less for the UD + MasterTracker now than I did back then.

If you want to swap carts more often, Technics is going to be easier to live with. If you want to tweak the table, Rega has a lot of upgrades on the market, as well as Technics.

If you can demo, that's probably best. If not there's really know wrong choices with those 3. Go with the one that speaks to you.

msg

Interesting. What sold you on the Ultradeck over the Technics?

Toolfan66

I will update later, I wanna play with it a little more..

muncybob

Still alive and throat intact, Mrs wants me to get a headphone amp before replacing something we already have Back to the drawing board as I've never looked for one.