Power cables

gyosa wrote: »

How is it possible that a power cable can have an impact on a component’s sound vs any other competently designed cable - meaning the one that was supplied with said component ?

William pointed out that your original question was never answered, so I thought I'd chime in an at least "attempt" to answer this.

First off, the electrical supply that feeds those hundreds of miles going down to your supplying transformer, to your meter and then through the walls to end up at your outlet. Not an ideal way to get clean electricity, but it's what we all equally have to deal with. One can only hope that everything was done to minimize electrical interference and noise but that's all one can do. Hope.

When wiring is inside walls, hopefully the electrician installing your runs didn't put 5 runs together down a long run that leads to your rig (or where you would want to test said PC). EMI (Electro-magnetic interference) would be off the charts high, if this were the case. But let's hope they didn't do this. Now, we must look at your wall. One side is Romex (permanently placed) with an outlet to connect PC's and the other are all consumer grade cords to use at will.

These cords are at the mercy of what's connected to and plugged into said outlet, along with being at the mercy of room to place them all in....correctly. Many of these cords end up being ran in parallel, and within close proximity to other PC's and other IC's. This is not a good combination, as it picks up noise.

This is where the construction of the PC comes into play.To include but not limited to -

The electrical properties of each PC. Current, voltage, resistance and impedance. If you have too thin wires that are too long, they add too much resistance, and flowing current will cause too much voltage drop. Longer wires add inductance. Inductance will make it to where current isn't delivered as quickly.

Then, one must consider the conductor material. This can also change the aforementioned in terms of impedance, voltage, current and resistance. Differing conductors also have differing speeds. Silver, for example, is known as a very fast metal.

Another equally important part of the equation. Dielectric materials are poor conductors of electricity because they do not have any loosely bound or free electrons that may drift through the material. Electrons are required to support the flow of an electric current. The current flows from the positive to the negative terminal and, in the opposite direction, as free electrons that flow from the negative to the positive terminal.

Dielectric materials support dielectric polarization, which enables them to act as dielectrics rather than conductors. This phenomenon occurs when a dielectric is placed in an electric field and positive charges are displaced in the direction of the electric field, while the negative charges are displaced in the opposite direction. Such polarization creates a strong internal field, which reduces the overall electric field within the material.

The shielding, dielectric, construction design (Like the "Eddie twist" the Snake River PC's utilize), sheathing, solder type, rating, current capacity and connector quality can all help to thwart EMI/RFI from entering into said cable or interfering with other cables that are in in close proximity.

Some cables use something called Ferrite (or a choke) to thwart EMI and other electrical frequency noises. They can also change the inductance of a PC.

So, to sum this all up. Before the wall and outlet, everything is fixed. After the outlet, a PC has the ability to change the electrical signal that the component sees, using the various types of materials and construction mentioned. All of the aforementioned can have a very audible effect on the end result as to what hits your ears. Or, at least, they have the ability too.

I hope this helps you understand at least why PC's have the ability to change what we hear. These are just the basics and it gets way more involved but without really getting deep into the math, engineering and stuff that gets really complicated quickly, it should offer at least some insight.

I guess one could think of them as the "final filter" before the electrical signals hit your components....

Tom

gyosa wrote: »

Someone please educate me … I was perusing the Snake River power cable thread …

How is it possible that a power cable can have an impact on a component’s sound vs any other competently designed cable - meaning the one that was supplied with said component ?

Bk

We used to have a saying around here..."everything matters". To the degree it matters is really system dependent, quality of the power cord dependent, and ones ability to hear.

Many will say cables don't matter, and they use various reasons why, but never actually try for themselves. Comparing cheap cables to one another is useless.

Different metallurgy in cables, quality of the wire, connectors/plugs, gauge, ability to conduct with out adding noise....and to me, noise is key or I should say the absence of it be it from a componant or cable. Once you experience what a silent noise floor does for the reproduction of music, there is no going back. Your hooked like a Grouper in Florida. Audio is a journey, a collection of experiences, which means different things to different people. Trial and error....as best you can, with the wallet you have. Rock on, and by all means, go to some audio shows, hook up with some members here who may live close to you, We are a friendly bunch, except on Mondays....lol

The big argument with non- believer's is how can it make a difference when there is miles of wire before your service, but your components are drawing the current, so it technically starts at the component. When nothing is plugged into a dedicated circuit how much current is being drawn, not very much.

Not a believer at one point we well

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/anyone-try-supra-lorad-2-5-pcs

Link to the Supra Lorad (albeit the 2.5 but it discusses the lower models too). FWIW.

Tom

Never get high on your own supply

I thought it was Yoda speak.

treitz3 wrote: »

Joey_V wrote: »

Not a believer at one point we well

Come again?

Tom

Lol

I was not a believer “as” well

gyosa wrote: »

Someone please educate me … I was perusing the Snake River power cable thread …

How is it possible that a power cable can have an impact on a component’s sound vs any other competently designed cable - meaning the one that was supplied with said component ?

Bk

gyosa wrote: »

If one were to budget for only ONE high-end cable , where would it be better served , the power amp or streamer/preamp ?

And if you just used one , would the stock cable “choke” the “good” one , negating the benefits ?

I’m just trying to understand $1,200 for a power cable .

Someone , anyone , explain it to me .

Bk

I became a serious stereophonic audio hobbyist in 1985. I did not begin to pursue high performance, high end audio equipment until 18 years later, in 2003. After 20 years in this hobby, I bought my first aftermarket power cords, two 8-foot long Signal Cable MagicPower cords in 2005. They cost $79 each. Even with my modest Adcom gear of that time, I could hear a difference and improvement with the Signal Cable cords. As I moved up to better gear with lower electrical noise profiles and higher signal resolutions, I began to be able to discern more differences in power cables and interconnects.

A cable that is "competently designed" does not equate to optimally designed. All cars come with "competently designed" tires...but you can always buy better, higher performing tires. There are quality and performance levels in everything. I was quite satisfied with the "competently designed" power cords that came with my audio gear...for a long time. It was only when my interest moved to higher performance audio gear that I became interested in higher performance cables.

Better power cords have better noise rejection performance due to conductor geometry, shielding, conductor metallurgy, etc. If your gear is of sufficient resolution, and has had good electrical noise abatement, and if the power in your home is sufficiently clean, you may hear a benefit from a high performance power cord...or you MAY NOT.

As for the question about "understanding" a $1,200 power cable, it should be no more difficult to understand than a $3,000 set of tires or any other high end, high performance item. You wouldn't put a $3,000 set of tires on some old beater with a Bluebook value of $1,000. Likewise, you wouldn't use $1,200 power cords with a stereo system with an MSRP of $1,000. I do have some $1,200 power cords (PS Audio AC-12s), but they are used in a stereo system with a six-figure retail price. It's all relative to what your stereophonic performance goals are.

If you are interested in experimenting with better power cords, you may find that the most benefit comes with putting them on power amplifiers. However, this is system dependent and you should move the cord under evaluation around to source components, preamp, and power amp.

I often wonder if the cheaper cables negatively affect sound quality because they have some level of radioactive particles in the copper. I would think that the various oxygen free long grain crystal copper conductors are refined significantly more than the average Chinese power cord such that they have a lower background level of radioactive particles. I know that lab equipment has to be manufactured from "low background" metals because the levels of radioactive particles in the cheaper metals actually affect the readings on sensitive equipment.

https://ui.adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2005AIPC..785..170A/abstract

There is actually supposed to be some really good Chinese high end cables, but they are all knockoffs.

If it was confirmation bias then how do you explain when someone buys a more expensive cable and doesn't like the sound, which does happen.