Power cables
gyosa
Posts: 748
Someone please educate me … I was perusing the Snake River power cable thread …
How is it possible that a power cable can have an impact on a component’s sound vs any other competently designed cable - meaning the one that was supplied with said component ?
Bk
How is it possible that a power cable can have an impact on a component’s sound vs any other competently designed cable - meaning the one that was supplied with said component ?
Bk
PS Audio S300 , WiiM Ultra , Yamaha wxc-50 , Salk SuperCharged Songtowers , Kimber Kable 4TC, Sony 42” - BEDROOM
B&K EX-442 ( it will go in my casket when I die ... ) , PS Audio 4.6 preamp ( old school , but it still jams on ... ) , Eversolo DMP-A6 , Boston Acoustic voyager 7’s - POOL
Parasound A21, Eversolo DMP-A8 , Kimber Kable 4vs , Ascend Acoustics ELX Ribbon Towers , Sony XBR-A8F 65” OLED - DEN , MAIN system
Onkyo TX-nr609 , Polk atrium 7 , Boston acoustic sound ware (4) , Boston acoustic sub , B&W center , Sharp 65” TV - PATIO
B&K EX-442 ( it will go in my casket when I die ... ) , PS Audio 4.6 preamp ( old school , but it still jams on ... ) , Eversolo DMP-A6 , Boston Acoustic voyager 7’s - POOL
Parasound A21, Eversolo DMP-A8 , Kimber Kable 4vs , Ascend Acoustics ELX Ribbon Towers , Sony XBR-A8F 65” OLED - DEN , MAIN system
Onkyo TX-nr609 , Polk atrium 7 , Boston acoustic sound ware (4) , Boston acoustic sub , B&W center , Sharp 65” TV - PATIO
Comments
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It starts with sample rates
2ch rig: Speakers: Magnepan LRS w/Magna Riser stands Preamplifier: Parasound P5 Amplifier: Parasound A23 CDP: Pioneer DV-563A Cables: Wireworld Equinox 7 XLR ICs, Wireworld Ultraviolet 7 USB, AudioQuest Q2s, AudioQuest NRG X(preamp)
Standby: LSi9s with VR3's Fortress mods -
I've always wondered why there are, seemingly, no 2 prong aftermarket power cords for those of us who don't need the 3 prong. Now, I need to pop some 🍿...Remember, when you're running from something, you're running to something...-me
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I was a non believer, too until I heard the difference a power cable made. That was when I went from the standard off the shelf generic black cord with molded ends to the Pangea AC9 I currently have. I expected nothing, but that wasn't the case. I immediately noticed the dramatic increase in bass. I switched cabes back and forth a few times to make sure that I wasn't imagining the change. Then I demoed the change to my son without telling him what I had done or my experience. He said that he heard more bass.
Fast forward to the Snake River Audio power cable demo. Again, I was skeptical about hearing a difference, but boy was I wrong! This power cable uncovered details that I was considering replacing my speakers to obtain! No ****! I'm sold! I now know that I have a path forward to finally obtain the sound that I have been seeking.
To close, what have you got to lose? Ask to be put on the list for the demo. It will only cost you shipping, and you can hear for yourself what difference a power cable can make.
Dan
Sources: Technics SL1200MKII | SME3009 Tonearm | Monster Alpha 1 MC cartridge | Oppo UDP203 disk player | Nikko NT-790 analog tuner | Musical Fidelity Trivista 21 DAC | Preamp: Threshold SL-10 | Amplifier: Threshold Stasis 2 | Speakers: Snell Acoustics C/V | Kimber 12-TC bi wire speakers | Analysis plus Oval 1 preamp to amp | Wireworld Eclipse 7 DAC to Preamp | Wireworld eclipse digital IC Oppo to DAC | Audioquest Quartz tuner to preamp | -
If you want to read more about the Snake River Audio cables, check out this thread: https://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/198086/trying-something-new-snake-river-audio/p1
I don't know if you have any tube gear, or not, but it's kind of like not every 12AU7 sounds the same. They both do the same thing and yet, each one has its own sound characteristic.
Two different cars both get you from point A to point B, but they do it with varying degrees of comfort, speed and enjoyment.
That type of thing.
My experience with cables started about a year ago when I tried a lower-tier Nordost cable on my integrated amp. After a couple weeks of burn-in, I went back to the factory-provided, black, PC-type power cord and the dynamics and soundstage collapsed. That was enough to make cable changes "real" for me.
You may not notice a difference with every cable and/or with every component, but the payoff can be significant when you do. I've come to view cables as another component in and of themselves. @newbie308 has some great advice. Consider taking advantage of the demo on this high-end product to see for yourself.
Brian
One-owner Polk Audio RTA 15TL speakers refreshed w/ Sonicap, Vishay/Mills and Cardas components by "pitdogg2," "xschop" billet tweeter plates and BH5 | Stereo REL Acoustics T/5x subwoofers w/ Bassline Blue cables | Rogue Audio Cronus Magnum III integrated tube amp | Technics SL-1210G turntable w/ Ortofon 2M Black LVB 250 MM cart | Sony CDP-508ESD CD player (as a transport) | LampizatOr Baltic 4 tube DAC | Nordost & DH Labs cables/interconnects | APC H15 Power Conditioner | GIK Acoustics room treatments | Degritter RCM -
I've always wondered why there are, seemingly, no 2 prong aftermarket power cords for those of us who don't need the 3 prong. Now, I need to pop some 🍿...
There are. Some of the power cables do have the ability to remove the ground pin. -
If people never try they'll never know but will save some money by not exploring. If people never try things though it makes me wonder why they're into audio as a hobby. It's true that most people aren't interested in anything other than getting something to turn on and off and don't go exploring. FWIW, it is possible for a power cord to make a high-end system sound worse, or better, or not different at all.
Scratch that itch!
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BINGO!!!I've come to view cables as another component in and of themselves.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Some (or perhaps all) of the PS Audio cords have the removable ground pin. You just unscrew them and now you have a 2 prong cord.FWIW, it is possible for a power cord to make a high-end system sound worse, or better, or not different at all.
Spot on.
@gyosa - Here's another thread you can read about PC's, this time in use on subs. https://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/188993/what-pisses-me-off-power-cords/p1
Tom
~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~ -
Audio cables do matter. It's just a bytch when Its not working
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I agree with F1nut's past observations that the design geometry of a cable makes more difference than just heavy gauge wire. As one example, the VH Audio Flavor 4 (which sounds nice with my gear) is very heavy gauge, but incorporates both star quad geometry and a counter-spiraled ground. And high quality connectors make a huge difference. Another thing I've noticed is that the weaker the power supply of a component, the more benefit you might potentially achieve from upgrading a power cable. And I've found that same principle applies to fuse upgrades. Some people write that there are miles of wire before it gets to your component, so how can 4 ft. of cable make a difference? It just does... Perhaps a good cable serves as some sort of filter? All I know is what I hear (IMHO). Some things just can't be measured (yet). I also agree with the above that some cables may make your rig sound different, but not necessarily better.
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I agree with F1nut's past observations that the design geometry of a cable makes more difference than just heavy gauge wire. As one example, the VH Audio Flavor 4 (which sounds nice with my gear) is very heavy gauge, but incorporates both star quad geometry and a counter-spiraled ground. And high quality connectors make a huge difference. Another thing I've noticed is that the weaker the power supply of a component, the more benefit you might potentially achieve from upgrading a power cable. And I've found that same principle applies to fuse upgrades. Some people write that there are miles of wire before it gets to your component, so how can 4 ft. of cable make a difference? It just does... Perhaps a good cable serves as some sort of filter? All I know is what I hear (IMHO). Some things just can't be measured (yet). I also agree with the above that some cables may make your rig sound different, but not necessarily better.
I’ve yet to see another component polish the **** of another component.
I’ll categorically say that if you want to really see the benefit, you better have a system and components that can resolve that difference.
You can’t put a little bit of wire before a component and now it suddenly plays better, while it’s full of a poor power supply and wire.
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1) I'm not good at explaining... I've only bought maybe 20-25 decent audio cables that were half way decent with the budget i wanted to spend... 3-4 MIT cables & 2 AudioQuest cables & a ton of BlueJeanCables & 3-4 Pangea cables. To my ears they were better than what came with units originally. I always look at it different. When I upgrade a speaker & do things to it to improve it & I upgrade let's say a amplifier (like going from my Adcom gfa555 to Parasound 2250 or Acurus 200/3) & I use better cables. As a whole-to my ears it sounds better & worth it & it didn't break the wallet...
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As one example, the VH Audio Flavor 4 (which sounds nice with my gear) is very heavy gauge, but incorporates both star quad geometry and a counter-spiraled ground. And high quality connectors make a huge difference. Another thing I've noticed is that the weaker the power supply of a component, the more benefit you might potentially achieve from upgrading a power cable.
Makes total sense to me. If the power supply leaves something to be desired it might not be able to supply what the system needs in high dynamic peak load requirements with some program material. In this case having a substandard stock power cable and connector only compounds that but when you give it a higher quality PC and connectors with higher contact forces, it helps. Having an outlet with high contact force or grip strength also helps. I proved that to myself recently when a friend gifted me a PS Audio "Power Port" outlet which is basically a hospital grade outlet made for them by Hubbel but it also has some copper contacts that are plated with multiple layers of silver. I am skeptical that the actual spring contacts could be copper but I haven't verified that suspicion.
George / NJ
Polk 7B main speakers, std. mods+ (1979, orig owner)
Martin Logan Dynamo sub w/6ft 14awg Power Cord
Onkyo A-8017 integrated
Logitech Squeezebox Touch Streamer w/EDO applet
iFi nano iDSD DAC
iPurifier3
iDefender w/ iPower PS
Custom Steve Wilson 1m UPOCC Interconnect
iFi Mercury 0.5m OFHC continuous cast copper USB cable
Custom Ribbon Speaker Cables, 5ft long, 4N Copper, 14awg, ultra low inductance
Custom Vibration Isolation Speaker Stands and Sub Platform -
Upstatemax wrote: »I agree with F1nut's past observations that the design geometry of a cable makes more difference than just heavy gauge wire. As one example, the VH Audio Flavor 4 (which sounds nice with my gear) is very heavy gauge, but incorporates both star quad geometry and a counter-spiraled ground. And high quality connectors make a huge difference. Another thing I've noticed is that the weaker the power supply of a component, the more benefit you might potentially achieve from upgrading a power cable. And I've found that same principle applies to fuse upgrades. Some people write that there are miles of wire before it gets to your component, so how can 4 ft. of cable make a difference? It just does... Perhaps a good cable serves as some sort of filter? All I know is what I hear (IMHO). Some things just can't be measured (yet). I also agree with the above that some cables may make your rig sound different, but not necessarily better.
I’ve yet to see another component polish the **** of another component.
I’ll categorically say that if you want to really see the benefit, you better have a system and components that can resolve that difference.
You can’t put a little bit of wire before a component and now it suddenly plays better, while it’s full of a poor power supply and wire.
I've wondered with folks that say cables make no difference, if it's partly because their rig can't the resolve difference(s). -
I've wondered with folks that say cables make no difference, if it's partly because their rig can't the resolve difference(s).
That can be part of it. There are many variables that can enter into this equation. Unfortunately, when a comment made about a system not being resolute enough happens, folks get offended and feel that their system is being ridiculed or "put down". Then the arguments start and the discussion heads downhill. Hopefully, this topic can remain level headed and the folks that would really like to learn, can do so without the constant bickering that is so prevalent on many forums.
That said, let's go back to a statement that @Emlyn said...FWIW, it is possible for a power cord to make a high-end system sound worse, or better, or not different at all.
If a person who was very skeptical about PC's only tried one cable that didn't make any difference at all and never experimented past that point? Their observations would be set in stone. The thing is, not all cables will make a difference. Some will make a considerable difference and as Emlyn said, some will make them worse. In some cases, much worse.
That's another part of the equation that folks don't consider. It happens.
Tom
Post edited by treitz3 on~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~ -
To me the key with cable experimentation, since differences may be heard, is to borrow different ones from audiophile friends so you can try before buying.
Among audio gear, cables often suffer the biggest loss of value when reselling.
Being able to try before buying can save one significant $$$, while allowing them to determine which cables do the most for your system at a given pricepoint.CD Players: Sony CDP-211; Sony DVP-S9000ES; Sony UDP-X800M2 (x2); Cambridge Audio CXC
DACs: Jolida Glass FX Tube DAC III (x2); Denafrips Ares II (x2)
Streamers: ROKU (x3); Bluesound Node 2i and Node N130 w/LHY LPS // Receivers: Yamaha RX-V775BT; Yamaha RX-V777
Preamps: B&K Ref 50; B&K Ref 5 S2; Classe CP-800 MkII; Audio Research SP16L (soon)
Amps: Niles SI-275; B&K ST125.7; B&K ST125.2; Classe CA-2300; Butler Audio TDB-5150
Speakers: Boston Acoustics CR55; Focal Chorus 705v; Wharfedale Diamond 10.2; Monitor Audio Silver-1; Def Tech Mythos One (x4)/Mythos Three Center (x2)/Mythos Two pr.; Martin Logan Electromotion ESL; Legacy Audio Victoria/Silverscreen Center; Gallo Acoustics Reference 3.1; SVS SB-1000 Pro; REL HT-1003; B&W ASW610; HifiMan HE400i
Turntable: Dual 721 Direct-Drive w/Audio Technica AT-VM95e cart
Cables: Tripp-lite 14ga. PCs, Blue Jeans Cable ICs, Philips PXT1000 ICs; Kimber Kable DV30 coaxial ICs; Canare L-4E6S XLR ICs; Kimber Kable 8PR & 8TC speaker cables. -
^^^
Tom, that all makes a lot of sense - one that I've not fully considered. I've also noticed over the years that some components respond to upgrades such as power cables, fuses, isolation etc much more than others. For example, my Ayre preamp has only responded in very subtle ways to various power cables (others report the same). One could try a cable on a similarly "resistant" component and come to the conclusion that cables do nothing. You and @Emlyn raise a very perceptive concept. -
boston1450 wrote: » Audio cables do matter. It's just a bytch when Its not working
WOW....look at all that........dust.....Source: BRP Panasonic UB9000, CDP Emotiva ERC3 - Display: LG OLED EVO 83 C3 - Pre/Pro: Marantz 8802A - Amplification: Emotiva XPA-DR3, XPA-2 x 2, XPA-6, Speakers, Mains/2ch-Focal Kanta No2's, C-LSiM706, S-702F/X, RS-RTiA9's, WS-RTiA9's, FH-RTiA3's, Subs - Epik Empire x 2
Cables: AudioQuest McKenzie XLR's/CDP/Amp, Carbon 48/BRP, Forest 48/Display, 2 channel speaker cable: Furutech FS Alpha 36 12AWG PCOCC Single Crystal (Douglas Connection)
EXPERIENCE: next to nothing, but I sure enjoy audio and video MY OPINION OF THIS HOBBY: I may not be a smart man, but I know what quicksand is.
When I was young, I was Superman but now that old age has gotten the best of me I'm only Batman -
George, the standard PS Audio Power Port is nickel plated copper. IMO, it would have been nice if it was silver plate, but it's still a very nice outlet. The Power Port Premier is gold plated copper with a special housing. It was a completely different outlet than the standard Power Port. Unfortunately, they don't make the Premier any longer.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Nickel plate yes. I think it was 7 layers. My bad.George / NJ
Polk 7B main speakers, std. mods+ (1979, orig owner)
Martin Logan Dynamo sub w/6ft 14awg Power Cord
Onkyo A-8017 integrated
Logitech Squeezebox Touch Streamer w/EDO applet
iFi nano iDSD DAC
iPurifier3
iDefender w/ iPower PS
Custom Steve Wilson 1m UPOCC Interconnect
iFi Mercury 0.5m OFHC continuous cast copper USB cable
Custom Ribbon Speaker Cables, 5ft long, 4N Copper, 14awg, ultra low inductance
Custom Vibration Isolation Speaker Stands and Sub Platform -
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Knowing what I know now? I could not fathom the amount of noise that system would produce.
Not to mention, it's flat out nasty.
Tom~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~ -
The dust is a built in filter- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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boston1450 wrote: »@Geoff4rfc borrowed picture from web. Nasty carpet as well.
Nice find. Can you imagine, assuming this was a guy's set up, if there was a wife, and she was constantly nagging and screaming......"HERBERT, THE FUSE BOX IS FLIPPED AGAIN!!!"Source: BRP Panasonic UB9000, CDP Emotiva ERC3 - Display: LG OLED EVO 83 C3 - Pre/Pro: Marantz 8802A - Amplification: Emotiva XPA-DR3, XPA-2 x 2, XPA-6, Speakers, Mains/2ch-Focal Kanta No2's, C-LSiM706, S-702F/X, RS-RTiA9's, WS-RTiA9's, FH-RTiA3's, Subs - Epik Empire x 2
Cables: AudioQuest McKenzie XLR's/CDP/Amp, Carbon 48/BRP, Forest 48/Display, 2 channel speaker cable: Furutech FS Alpha 36 12AWG PCOCC Single Crystal (Douglas Connection)
EXPERIENCE: next to nothing, but I sure enjoy audio and video MY OPINION OF THIS HOBBY: I may not be a smart man, but I know what quicksand is.
When I was young, I was Superman but now that old age has gotten the best of me I'm only Batman -
If one were to budget for only ONE high-end cable , where would it be better served , the power amp or streamer/preamp ?
And if you just used one , would the stock cable “choke” the “good” one , negating the benefits ?
I’m just trying to understand $1,200 for a power cable .
Someone , anyone , explain it to me .
BkPost edited by gyosa onPS Audio S300 , WiiM Ultra , Yamaha wxc-50 , Salk SuperCharged Songtowers , Kimber Kable 4TC, Sony 42” - BEDROOM
B&K EX-442 ( it will go in my casket when I die ... ) , PS Audio 4.6 preamp ( old school , but it still jams on ... ) , Eversolo DMP-A6 , Boston Acoustic voyager 7’s - POOL
Parasound A21, Eversolo DMP-A8 , Kimber Kable 4vs , Ascend Acoustics ELX Ribbon Towers , Sony XBR-A8F 65” OLED - DEN , MAIN system
Onkyo TX-nr609 , Polk atrium 7 , Boston acoustic sound ware (4) , Boston acoustic sub , B&W center , Sharp 65” TV - PATIO -
If one were to budget for only ONE high-end cable , where would it be better served , the power amp or streamer/preamp ?
Bk
Why not wait until they answer your original question first? -
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Good point….
Bk
PS Audio S300 , WiiM Ultra , Yamaha wxc-50 , Salk SuperCharged Songtowers , Kimber Kable 4TC, Sony 42” - BEDROOM
B&K EX-442 ( it will go in my casket when I die ... ) , PS Audio 4.6 preamp ( old school , but it still jams on ... ) , Eversolo DMP-A6 , Boston Acoustic voyager 7’s - POOL
Parasound A21, Eversolo DMP-A8 , Kimber Kable 4vs , Ascend Acoustics ELX Ribbon Towers , Sony XBR-A8F 65” OLED - DEN , MAIN system
Onkyo TX-nr609 , Polk atrium 7 , Boston acoustic sound ware (4) , Boston acoustic sub , B&W center , Sharp 65” TV - PATIO -
@gyosa Get in on the component cable tour, I think it would make more of a difference in sound than using the amp power cable. I would say you should start with it on your source, DAC>streamer>preamp or cd player/turntable>phono pre>preamp.Amplifiers: Norma IPA 140, MasterSound Compact 845, Ayre v6xe, Consonance Cyber 800
Preamp: deHavilland Ultraverve 3
Dac: Sonnet Morpheus 2, Musical Paradise mp-d2 mkIII
Transport: Jay's Audio CDT2 mk2, Lumin U1 mini
Speakers: Rosso Fiorentino Volterra II
Speaker Cables: Crystal Clear Magnum Opus 2, Organic Audio Organic Reference 2
Interconnects: Crystal Clear Magnum Opus 2, Argento Organic Reference 2, Argento Organic 2
Power Cables: Argento Organic Reference, Synergistic Research Foundation 10 and 12 ga.
Digital cables: Crystal Clear Magnum Opus 2 bnc, Tellurium Q aes, Silnote Audio Poseidon Signature 2 bnc
Puritan PSM156 -
It's not necessary to spend $1200 on a single power cord. In my case I use Audioquest Monsoon from wall to power conditioner and another for the amp. The rest are Audioquest NRG-Z3. I have no desire to swap them out for something different because I had been using more expensive cords before switching to those. The main improvement was a drop in the noise floor. Not sure why but it worked but it was especially noticeable on four different phono preamps. Sounds much better without the hazy buzzing sound!
I also use good quality standard Tripp-Lite 15A, 14 AWG "computer" power cords without shame on most of my home theater system's components. They work for anything that's not drawing more than 15 amps.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0012EI6KE/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1
