Some RTA-11tl Love

Are those WBT posts? Nice double decker install.

Thanks David.

Ah yes, the "veneer work".. also known as "Phase 2 of Glenn's
Learning Curve" on this project.

File under : Mods, Tweaks, and other Misadventures



First batch of veneer should arrive tomorrow.


-glenn

OK,,

The veneer for my 11TL's did arrive..uh.. a couple of weeks ago. I decided, for nostalgic reasons I guess, that I wanted a 'look' from the veneer for this project that I would have appreciated both back in '92 when I bought these Polks, as well as going forward in time from now. As such, I finally went with an 'Australian Walnut'(not actually a member of the Walnut family) that really caught my eye.. and(!)... it came in pieces that were large enough to do the side of an 11TL box(14"x38") without needing to be pieced-this was pretty-much a prerequisite for me! It's from a veneer supplier here in MD and arrived well packed and spent a few days relaxing(it was shipped rolled up) and acclimating to our environ here. I need 4 sheets(if I don't drop the ball) of the veneer to do the speakers, so I ordered 5 so as to have 1 sheet to 'play' with first because.... I've never done veneer before. Here's what I purchased....each sheet is 18"x62" and will do a speaker side, and still have enough to do the adjoining top/bottom. It's even prettier in person... it actually looks like a piece of sawn lumber to me, instead of a composite of side-by-side pieces joined together like some veneer sheets, and it has a wonderful curl 'going on' throughout the piece. It has no backing paper nor adhesive, it is 'raw' and 1/45" thick.


Not having a bagging setup, and not wanting to mess with contact cement if avoidable, I have chosen to try a 'hot press' application method for this raw veneer. Simply cut(with a veneer saw-I'm still getting the hang of it) a section of the veneer to fit the side of the object you're working on with about a 1/2" overhang all around and then with a glue roller, roll on a layer of the adhesive(HeatLock) on both the backside of the veneer and your target surface. Wait 30 mins for glue to feel dry to the touch, then position your piece of veneer onto the surface(it won't bond at this point so you can move it around until you have it exactly where you want it-try that with contact cement!), then cover with an old t-shirt and iron away-working from the center out of course. Sounds simple enough...and it mostly was.

Here's the item I chose from around the house to 'practice' on, before starting an actual speaker. Its an el-cheapo 'bin' of my wife's, she uses them to hold her prints at art shows. It is some type of wood from SE Asia(my guess), finger-jointed in the corners. I would have preferred MDF or p-board for stability, but we didnt have any. Oh well. For size perspective, the bin is just wide enough to hold a record album. At the point in time that I took this photo, I had already started applying the veneer..my apologies for being out of chronological order. For this project, I ran the grain in the veneer in the same direction as the grain of the box. For the speakers, I will rotate the veneer 90 degrees of course, like it is the photo above.



The adhesive dries to a shiny pinkish color. It's very easy to tell where you have applied it, in case you miss a spot. The veneer does tend to want to curl a bit as the glue dries, thus the tape to hold the edges until it sets. The tape also prevents getting any glue on the 'good side' which is facing down. Blue tape did end up working better than the frog tape shown here. I started with the frog tape, but my second piece
of veneer popped loose from the tape while I was upstairs and wound itself up to the size of a paper towel tube-sticky side out. Oops! It was blue tape only, after that.


Anyway, once I ironed a side down-which took less than 2 minutes on this small bin (including doing a visual check of all the edges to make sure they were down good) I let the reactivated adhesive fully set(about 2-3 hours) and then,, trimmed any veneer overhang with my favorite(!) new tool...a trim router with a down-cut spiral bit with guide bearing. It weighs in at only 4 pounds and was a very easy to control compared to the 13 pound Elu router I was going to use. It worked very well, and the bearing did not mar the veneer on the adjoining surface. I tried placing a layer of frog tape on the surface the bearing would ride on- and sure enough- this made the cut a little proud of the edge. I then took a t-bar sander and finished the edge by hand. I just felt batter doing it this way. And this Australian (non-)Walnut really does smell like our Black Walnut when its worked. I really enjoy that smell.


When I started veneering this bin, I didn't think the process thru and started cutting off pieces at one end of the veneer sheet, instead of in the center. Lesson learned. As such, I was only able to attempt to match the grain at one end of the bin, instead of both ends...which is a shame because I definitely could still use the practice! Anyway, here's the 'good' end...(it could have been better, if i had minimized the overhang/waste when I cut the veneer-another lesson learned)


and the not-so-matched corner...("not-so-matched" = not at all, ha! but it is a crisp,clean corner)


I think both are acceptable, but I'll be trying for matched corners when possible on the speaker boxes-which I will be starting in earnest this weekend for sure. They are sanded and ready to be veneered.

The practice bin above will become my test subject for a few different finishes in a couple of weeks.I want a low-luster(!) finish on these, I'm not a "high-gloss" guy and these will be parked in the living room and never see duty as drink holders, end tables, or the like. If anybody has any tips or advice for possible finishes for this veneer, I'd be glad to listen. I've gotten some advice from David(#westmassguy) on what finishes he has used on veneers in the past, and I'm certainly open to more advice. I don't have a spray booth- but I am pretty good with rattle cans if that is an option. I do know that the glue manufacturer claims that the veneer adhesive does form a 'hard line' once fully cured so that is supposed to broaden my options, ie, I supposedly don't have to worry about the finish I choose damaging the adhesive and allowing the veneer to creep. I have done exactly one French Polish finish in my life, on my first wife's hope chest 35 years ago, and it turned out quite nicely, but I would rather not go that route this time. lol. This veneer is rather porous, but filling those pores is not a priority either. OK, it's time for hockey...

Thanks for looking.


-glenn

butterbean wrote: »

Wow you do beautiful work brother!

2nd that. Wish I could find someone local to do similar. That grain is unique.

Veneer Update...
First, Thanks for the kind comments above.
I believe, I may(!) have finished the raw veneer application to my 11TL's.
It has been a learn-on-the-fly adventure. My apologies for the 3-week gap.

So, the 'plan' in brief, was to apply raw veneer to the sides, tops, and bottoms of my RTA 11TL's. I practiced above on a small wooden bin and then proceeded by working on the real thing. I had 4 sheets (18"x62"x.022") of sequential veneer each of which was large enough for a side(14"x38") and a top/bottom(14"x10.5") plus a little more than a linear foot leftover. Since I had some wiggle room, I had the option to choose where(!) on the veneer sheets I was going to cut my pieces from. This was a part of the reason I chose this veneer to begin with. I liked having some measure of creative control.

So, I started by cutting out a chipboard 'frame' whose inside(!) dimensions matched the exterior(!) dimensions of the speaker side. Then I could move this frame about on the veneer sheet and see exactly where I like the grain pattern the best. This frame is just an extra piece of the same 'chipboard' I used for a cutting surface for this project, it worked great, and a huge sheet is only about $3-$4. This photo shows what position on the veneer sheet I ultimately chose. Basically, I centered the main grain structure(dark area) left to right and ended it up top where it wouldn't look to me like I had 'beheaded' it.


The plan being.. to cover the left side of a speaker first, then using the remainder of that same sheet to move right across the speaker top (continuing the grain pattern at the top/left corner), then, cover down the speaker right side(also continuing the grain at the top/right corner) and finally across the speaker bottom, again matching the grain at the bottom/right corner. That's a total of 97" of linear coverage from veneer sheets that are only 62" long. So, of course, I had to buy a veneer stretcher to make it work. Just kidding, I'm pretty sure there's no such thing as a veneer stretcher...

I could have been satisfied(not really) with matching the grain only at opposite corners..say 'top-left' and 'bottom-right' but I decided to give it a shot and see how close I could come to matching 3 out of the 4,, with the top two corners of the speaker being most important visually of course. If I couldn't get it to work on this first speaker, then I would go a simpler route on the second, no biggie.

This photo below, hopefully shows how I set up my frame on the first sheet and visually extended that first veneer sheet by setting up my second sheet at its far end, but,, flipping it over so the grain essentially becomes not an actual continuation of the pattern, but actually a reversal of it. In either case, if I cut the second sheet at exactly the right place to begin the second side of the speaker...then the grain will match visually and 'flow' right around the speaker corner.


How to know where to cut the second sheet to start down the right side...? I just used the remainder/leftover piece of the first sheet as a template and flipped it over and laid it on the second sheet(which also was flipped over) and cut along its termination edge. Yeah, it sounds confusing, but really does work, mostly. The tricky part is you can leave yourself only the slightest(about 1/16") bit of extra/hangover for each piece so when it comes time to iron those pieces into position. The more waste you leave to be trimmed off, the less likely the grain lines will actually match because that waste becomes a 'missing' section. How well this works will also depend somewhat on the grain pattern of the particular veneer being used.

Ok, my process...and as a reminder I don't claim that any of the following is the best way, or only way to try to do this..., I was learning as I went....

My cutting set-up in this photo. A piece of 1x3 lumber which I ran one edge over my jointer so I could establish a straight edge. In this photo that edge is facing to your right and will be my guide for running the veneer saw along. The 'good' edge is under the board, the 'waste' is the narrow(about 2" wide) piece to the right of the guide board.


Once a side is cut to size, I put my glue setup(two pieces of black gator-board) on top
of my cutting setup and... hope for the best!
This photo..a long side of veneer taped down and with glue(HeatLock) added....


..and a couple of minutes later, the glue is rolled out using a glue roller...


Then repeat this process on the side of the speaker box..and let the glue dry to the touch- anywhere from 30 mins(which I chose) up to 3 hours. The speaker box remained a speaker box once the glue was dry, but this veneer did the fandango !! You can see(hopefully) how the once very flat veneer became a wavy, puckered 'thing'... especially along the edge of the dark center grain. Yeah, I was a little intimidated.


So, I got up enough nerve and ironed down this first side to the speaker, working from center(!) outward with the household iron, until... I heard a "c-c-crack" when I was nearly finished. Yikes. Along the bottom edge where it was wavy, the grain split open. You know what I said out loud at this point. Uh huh. In the photo there are cracks on either side of the dark grain area. The one on the right was contained within the overhang/scrap portion and would trim off with the router...no problem. The one on the left was not as polite and extended a bit onto the side of the speaker. I had to patch this one with a scrap piece of veneer later, and surprisingly the repair turned out well. I guess the final test will be when a finish is applied. In any case, it is at the very bottom edge and will be against the carpet.


Then, I just followed this same procedure, working clockwise around the speaker, cutting, fitting, and then applying one piece at a time, ultimately finishing with the speaker bottom.

Here's a photo of the top/right corner(the speaker is lying on its left side) where I had the grain reverse itself in order to get it to line up. The lighting is a little funky with the top being in slight shadow..but the match turned out really well. I am pleased.


Here are the 'left' sides of each speaker...


..and a shot from above...


The 11TL's have a 'face',, a 1/2" wide portion that faces toward the listener that also needs veneering. So, I saved my scraps and did these surfaces last, matching the grain to the sides and tops, mostly. Oh yeah, and mitered corners as well, just for kicks. Thanks Polk! I am pleased with these results as well.


various points:
-For the raw version like I am using here, I cant imagine a better tool for cutting it than a veneer saw. They're made for righties and I am a lefty, but we southpaws have been adapting all our lives and it was a pleasure to use. Great tool.

-The heatLock adhesive, we shall see. I did learn that letting the glue dry longer before ironing did result in the veneer returning mostly to its original, flat state. And 'mostly flat' is much less stressful to iron than 'wavy'.
-Whiteside downcut spiral bit, 1/4", made in the USA, worked wonderfully.
-Frog tape-the yellow version. Very low tack so it was easy to remove w/o fear of damaging the veneer. I used most of a roll for this project, so far. Worth the higher price.
-Blue painters tape...stronger tack made it best for holding down veneer while glue was rolled on and then dried. Also for masking off the front/component portion of each speaker. Used a small portion of a roll, so far.


Now I'm going to use my veneer scraps, and the bin I veneered earlier this month to try some finishes on in the coming 'days'. The roster includes, but not limited to Watco Danish, Maloof's poly/oil, Minwax penetrating stain, and as of now unknown topcoat-could be poly or lacquer. We shall see.



-glenn

Nice job. Consider contact cement in the future.

If you want to really make the figure pop use a dye such as ILVA, which is best applied by mixing it in with one of the types of lacquer. Pigmented stains such as Minwax tend to obscure.

There are a number of veneer softener products available.