Belles 21a Tube Pre in the house!

2

Comments

  • dromundsdromunds Posts: 8,861
    Dang, that’s nice!
  • headrottheadrott Posts: 5,490
    audioluvr wrote: »
    treitz3 wrote: »
    I opted for the Mundorf Supreme caps as Auricap doesn't carry a 15uF any more.
    Well, we all feel sorry for you that you would have to put up with such a loss. Prayers sent and best wishes for you and yours to come. If only we all had your problems...

    Tom

    Do not despair Tom. From what I've read with the "cap rolling crowd" these are a step up from the Auricaps.

    That is definitely a true statement.
    Relayer-Big-O-Poster.jpg
    Taken from a recent Audioholics reply regarding "Club Polk" and Polk speakers:
    "I'm yet to hear a Polk speaker that merits more than a sentence and 60 seconds discussion." :\
    My response is: If you need 60 seconds to respond in one sentence, you probably should't be evaluating Polk speakers.....


    "Green leaves reveal the heart spoken Khatru"- Jon Anderson

    "Have A Little Faith! And Everything You'll Face, Will Jump From Out Right On Into Place! Yeah! Take A Little Time! And Everything You'll Find, Will Move From Gloom Right On Into Shine!"- Arthur Lee
  • Looking good
    JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)
  • FaustinFaustin Posts: 968
    Nicely done. I guess sometimes if you want things done right, you have to do them yourself.
  • vcwatkinsvcwatkins Posts: 1,976
    Good work and congrats!

    Although the 21a seems to be a different animal than the 20a, it might be worth investigating rolling Brimars. When I bought the 20a from George, he suggested these. I tried them, loved 'em, and have kept them there ever since. Good match in that case, but I'll defer to George and others on the 21a.
    Den: Roon (Sonic Transporter) * PS Audio DirectStream Jr. * Adcom GFP-750 * Sunfire Signature II * PSAudio PP3 * MIT S3 * Polk SRS 1.2
    Study: Roon * ProJect Stream Box Ultra & Pre Box S2 * Pass ACA * PSA Dectet * DH Labs Q10 * Brines Folded ML-TQWT RS 40-1354
    Studio: Roon * LG v30 phone * Dared MP-5 * DefTech SM45
    Beach: Rega RP6 * AT33PTGII * Budgie SUT * Jolida jd9 * Roon * Sonore UltraRendu (LPS-1, WW Plat7, Iso Regen, Lush) * Schiit Yggdrasil * Joule-Electra LA-100 mkIII * Pass Aleph 30 / First Watt F5 Clone * PSA Dectet * MIT S3 * Polk SRS 2.3tl
    Beach Den: Sonore microRendu * Dayens Menuetto * Fostex BK-12m Folded Horn / KEF LS50 / Dynaudio Audience 50 / Revel M22

  • audioluvraudioluvr Posts: 2,343
    Thanks everyone! 24 hours of burn in so far. Rocking some Stray Cats with the RCA clear tops I got from @Gerres26. Anybody who says there is no audible difference in capacitors is clearly tone deaf! I'm hearing pinpoint details now that were vague and blurred before. I still have the issue of this pre having too much gain though. Wondering if something like this would help or if it would ruin the sound?

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-PACK-PROCRAFT-INLINE-ATTENUATOR-XLR-FEMALE-TO-MALE-ADAPTOR-10dB-PAD-SVP559-10/263150174657

    One foot on audio nirvana and the other in the poor house.
  • treitz3treitz3 Posts: 14,617
    Is there a different type of tube that you could put in that would not have as much gain (a substitute tube?)

    Tom
    In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.

    ~ The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to good analogue reproduction ~

    ~ Not all things that can be measured can be heard and not all things heard can be measured ~

    ~ When the law ends, tyranny begins ~
  • kharp1kharp1 Posts: 3,463
    Unlike the 12ax7/5751 swap, I don't think there is a variant of the 12au7 with "lower" gain.
  • You do have au7’s in?
    JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)
  • audioluvraudioluvr Posts: 2,343
    Yes 12au7's are installed
    One foot on audio nirvana and the other in the poor house.
  • vcwatkinsvcwatkins Posts: 1,976
    If you're using xlr for output, maybe try rca for lesser gain?
    Den: Roon (Sonic Transporter) * PS Audio DirectStream Jr. * Adcom GFP-750 * Sunfire Signature II * PSAudio PP3 * MIT S3 * Polk SRS 1.2
    Study: Roon * ProJect Stream Box Ultra & Pre Box S2 * Pass ACA * PSA Dectet * DH Labs Q10 * Brines Folded ML-TQWT RS 40-1354
    Studio: Roon * LG v30 phone * Dared MP-5 * DefTech SM45
    Beach: Rega RP6 * AT33PTGII * Budgie SUT * Jolida jd9 * Roon * Sonore UltraRendu (LPS-1, WW Plat7, Iso Regen, Lush) * Schiit Yggdrasil * Joule-Electra LA-100 mkIII * Pass Aleph 30 / First Watt F5 Clone * PSA Dectet * MIT S3 * Polk SRS 2.3tl
    Beach Den: Sonore microRendu * Dayens Menuetto * Fostex BK-12m Folded Horn / KEF LS50 / Dynaudio Audience 50 / Revel M22

  • audioluvraudioluvr Posts: 2,343
    Currently using RCA's
    One foot on audio nirvana and the other in the poor house.
  • kharp1kharp1 Posts: 3,463
    Some pre's and amps just have gain mismatches.
  • treitz3treitz3 Posts: 14,617
    audioluvr wrote: »

    Good evening to you sir. First off, I would like to admit that I have never used one of those before, so I may well be way out of line here. If I am, the fellas around here would gladly point out that I am full of ****.

    With that said, here are my thoughts. Here goes a car analogy. Bear with me. What you have basically done is changed out your Corvette engine with Ferrari engine and are enjoying the added power and refinement that it offers. This device would be akin to installing a governor to that new Ferrari engine.

    If I am wrong, I will be the first to apologize. I was just thinking out loud here. With that said, if you have no other options (and it does not sound like you do), for that price? You might as well give it a shot. I would personally exhaust every possible avenue prior to trying these though. FWIW.

    Tom

    In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.

    ~ The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to good analogue reproduction ~

    ~ Not all things that can be measured can be heard and not all things heard can be measured ~

    ~ When the law ends, tyranny begins ~
  • audioluvraudioluvr Posts: 2,343
    edited December 2019
    Well I actually have an alternative since I run everything through my CA 851N which I have currently set up with preamp off which sets volume to max. I could reset it so I can adjust the volume on it. Don't know why I didn't think of that earlier...

    Edit: Ahhh! Much better!
    One foot on audio nirvana and the other in the poor house.
  • marvda1marvda1 Posts: 4,051
    edited December 2019
    it does have a lot of gain so make sure you extra quiet tubes are the hiss will kill you.
    I bought a pair of these.
    www.rothwellaudioproducts.co.uk/html/attenuators.html
    Amplifiers: MasterSound Compact 845, Ayre v6xe, Consonance Cyber 800,Kinki Studio EX-M1
    Preamp: deHavilland Ultraverve 3
    Transport/Dac: L.K.S MH-DA004, Cayin Venus cd-100i, Musical Paradise mp-d2 mkI,
    Musical Paradise mp-d2 mkIII
    Speakers: Rosso Fiorentino Volterra II
    Speaker Cables: Organic Audio Organic Reference 2, Analysis Plus Black Mesh Oval 9,
    Cerious Technologies Graphene Extreme
    Interconnects: Argento Organic Reference 2, Argento Organic 2, Gabriel Gold Reckoning
    Power Cables by: Cullen Cables, 6sons Audio, Swiss Cables
  • audioluvraudioluvr Posts: 2,343
    Sweet! Thanks for the link!
    One foot on audio nirvana and the other in the poor house.
  • audioluvraudioluvr Posts: 2,343
    So I've found that if I set my CA 851N's volume to 20 (30 being max) it appears the noise floor is the best. If it's not broke don't fix it right? Also I got my Mullard Mitchums in today. Ran them for about an hour but took them out. These unknown ones that came with the pre are by far the best of the 4 sets I have. Best I can interpret, they say "Hallicrafter" and "12AU7A" They have an amazing holographic quality like angels descending from heaven... o:)

    I guess that's why you roll tubes. To find out which have the best synergy with all your gear.
    One foot on audio nirvana and the other in the poor house.
  • verbverb Posts: 10,203
    Nice job Rob! I gotta hand it to you guys, to have the gumption to take a piece of expensive electronic equipment, and perform surgery on it. Someday, perhaps! :smile:
    Basement: Polk SDA SRS,Cary SLP-05 Pre,Enlightened Audio Designs CD Transport,Northstar Designs Excelsio DAC,Cambridge 851N streamer,Marantz SA-14 SACD,McIntosh MC300 Amp,Silnote Morpheus Ref2 Digital Cable,Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner,Pangea Power Cables,Wireworld Oasis 8 RCA IC's,MIT Shotgun S3 IC's,MIT Shotgun S1 Bi-Wire speaker cables
    Office: PC,EAR Acute CD Player,EAR 834L Pre,Northstar Designs Intenso DAC,PASS ACA Monoblocks,Denon UDR-F10 Cassette,Acoustic Technologies Classic FR Speakers,SVS SB12 Plus sub,MIT AVt2 speaker cables,IFI Purifier2,AQ Cinnamon USB cable,Groneberg Quatro Reference IC's
    Spare Room: Antique Sound Labs Wave AV-8 Monoblocks,Tisbury Mini Passive Pre,Tjoeb 99 tube CD player (modified Marantz CD-38),Analysis Plus Oval 9's,Zu Jumpers,AudioEngine B1 Streamer,Klipsch RB-61 v2,SVS PB1000 sub,Blue Jeans RCA IC's
    Living Room: Peachtree Nova Integrated,Cambridge CXN v2 Streamer,Rotel RCD-1072 CD player,Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner,Polk RT265 In Wall Speakers,Polk DSW Pro 660wi sub
  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 16,694
    audioluvr wrote: »
    So I've found that if I set my CA 851N's volume to 20 (30 being max) it appears the noise floor is the best. If it's not broke don't fix it right? Also I got my Mullard Mitchums in today. Ran them for about an hour but took them out. These unknown ones that came with the pre are by far the best of the 4 sets I have. Best I can interpret, they say "Hallicrafter" and "12AU7A" They have an amazing holographic quality like angels descending from heaven... o:)

    I guess that's why you roll tubes. To find out which have the best synergy with all your gear.

    Put up some pictures of said tubes. all sides and bottom. could be a triangle or doohickey that will lead to who made the tube and date.
  • audioluvraudioluvr Posts: 2,343
    bz519b8bu9nj.jpg
    r22k7ghvvp58.jpg
    5fg083odz6d4.jpg
    One foot on audio nirvana and the other in the poor house.
  • marvda1marvda1 Posts: 4,051
    I found these to sound great in the belles.
    https://upscaleaudio.com/collections/preamp-tubes/products/radiotechnique-12au7-6189
    get the highest grade.
    Amplifiers: MasterSound Compact 845, Ayre v6xe, Consonance Cyber 800,Kinki Studio EX-M1
    Preamp: deHavilland Ultraverve 3
    Transport/Dac: L.K.S MH-DA004, Cayin Venus cd-100i, Musical Paradise mp-d2 mkI,
    Musical Paradise mp-d2 mkIII
    Speakers: Rosso Fiorentino Volterra II
    Speaker Cables: Organic Audio Organic Reference 2, Analysis Plus Black Mesh Oval 9,
    Cerious Technologies Graphene Extreme
    Interconnects: Argento Organic Reference 2, Argento Organic 2, Gabriel Gold Reckoning
    Power Cables by: Cullen Cables, 6sons Audio, Swiss Cables
  • dhart86dhart86 Posts: 1,582
    marvda1 wrote: »
    I found these to sound great in the belles.
    https://upscaleaudio.com/collections/preamp-tubes/products/radiotechnique-12au7-6189
    get the highest grade.

    Good call Marvda1...that's one of my go to 12au7 tubes, very smooth
    Main Rig:
    Antipodes DX > Roon > PS Audio Directstream Jr.>deHavilland Ultraverve 3 >Belles Reference 150a >Harbeth C7 ES3


    Second Rig:
    Roon> PS Audio Directstream Jr Bridge II > EE Minimax pre (Tutay mods) >Belles 150A Ref >Monitor 5 (Westmassguy-modded)


  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 16,694
    audioluvr wrote: »
    bz519b8bu9nj.jpg
    r22k7ghvvp58.jpg
    5fg083odz6d4.jpg

    That light is not helping. Is there anything between the pins on the bottom?
  • audioluvraudioluvr Posts: 2,343
    Like what? Sorry for my ignorance.

    btzhc2wrdxgd.jpg
    One foot on audio nirvana and the other in the poor house.
  • audioluvraudioluvr Posts: 2,343
    edited December 2019
    I'm kinda Leary right now. My free ones sound WAY better than the ones I just paid $100 for.
    One foot on audio nirvana and the other in the poor house.
  • treitz3treitz3 Posts: 14,617
    Word to the wise. Study organs. Free ones.

    That's all I'm sayin'bout that!

    Tom
    In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.

    ~ The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to good analogue reproduction ~

    ~ Not all things that can be measured can be heard and not all things heard can be measured ~

    ~ When the law ends, tyranny begins ~
  • audioluvraudioluvr Posts: 2,343
    Copy
    One foot on audio nirvana and the other in the poor house.
  • dromundsdromunds Posts: 8,861
    I looked over some of my 12AU7’s and although I don’t have many halo getters, these do resemble some late 1950’s Sylvanias that I have, although very hard to say as my Sylvanias are not halo getters. If so, they are very nice tubes. It appears Hallicrafters branded tubes may have also been made by GE and Tung Sol. These do not resemble my GE halo getters. MyTung Sols are from the 1940’s so different but still it appears these “could” be Tung Sols in which case that would explain the OPs glowing comments. I’m certainly no expert but it seems Hallicrafters used quality tubes in their stuff and since the company was sold in about 1969 I’m guessing these are late 50’s maybe early ‘60’s. Fortunate it appears to get them with preamp. As an aside, I have a single Rodgers branded tube that says on the box “Mitchum Mullard?” And that tube resembles the OP’s :s but I seriously doubt Hallicrafters utilized Mullard as it seems they purchased US made tubes from what I can tell being a Chicago company.
  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 16,694
    audioluvr wrote: »
    Like what? Sorry for my ignorance.

    btzhc2wrdxgd.jpg

    Some smaller tubes had triangles, diamonds or other marks. They also had numbers all these things can point to a manufacturer of the tube.
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