Belles 21a Tube Pre in the house!

2

Comments

  • dromunds
    dromunds Posts: 10,009
    Dang, that’s nice!
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  • headrott
    headrott Posts: 5,496
    audioluvr wrote: »
    treitz3 wrote: »
    I opted for the Mundorf Supreme caps as Auricap doesn't carry a 15uF any more.
    Well, we all feel sorry for you that you would have to put up with such a loss. Prayers sent and best wishes for you and yours to come. If only we all had your problems...

    Tom

    Do not despair Tom. From what I've read with the "cap rolling crowd" these are a step up from the Auricaps.

    That is definitely a true statement.
    Relayer-Big-O-Poster.jpg
    Taken from a recent Audioholics reply regarding "Club Polk" and Polk speakers:
    "I'm yet to hear a Polk speaker that merits more than a sentence and 60 seconds discussion." :\
    My response is: If you need 60 seconds to respond in one sentence, you probably should't be evaluating Polk speakers.....

    "Green leaves reveal the heart spoken Khatru"- Jon Anderson

    "Have A Little Faith! And Everything You'll Face, Will Jump From Out Right On Into Place! Yeah! Take A Little Time! And Everything You'll Find, Will Move From Gloom Right On Into Shine!"- Arthur Lee
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  • george daniel
    george daniel Posts: 12,096
    Looking good
    JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)
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  • Faustin
    Faustin Posts: 1,149
    Nicely done. I guess sometimes if you want things done right, you have to do them yourself.
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  • vcwatkins
    vcwatkins Posts: 1,993
    Good work and congrats!

    Although the 21a seems to be a different animal than the 20a, it might be worth investigating rolling Brimars. When I bought the 20a from George, he suggested these. I tried them, loved 'em, and have kept them there ever since. Good match in that case, but I'll defer to George and others on the 21a.
    b]Beach Audio[/b]: Rega RP6 (mods) - AT33PTG/II - Parks Budgie SUT - PSAudio NPC * Eversolo DMP-A6 * Topping D90iii * Joule-Electra LA-100 mkIII * Pass Aleph 30 * MIT S3 * Polk SRS 2.3tl (mods) * PSAudio PPP3
    Beach Study: Pro-Ject Stream Box S2 Ultra & Pre Box S2 * Pass ACA * DH Labs SS Q10 * Brines Folded ML-TQWT RS 40-1354 * PSA Dectet
    Beach Master: WiiM Pro * Dayens Menuetto * Zu Libtec * Dynaudio Audience 50
    Beach Den: Bluesound Powernode 2i * DH Labs SS Q10 * Zu Omen DWII * Richard Gray RGPC
    Town Study: WiiM Pro * Chord Qute (Pardo) * Elekit TU-8600 * MIT S3 * Revel M22 * Beyer DT-990 * Shunyata Hydra 2
    Town Den: Music Hall mm5.1se - Denon DL-103r - Jolida JD9ii (mods) * WiiM Pro * Cary xCiter * Rogue 99 Magnum * Schiit Aegir * MIT S3 * Polk SRS 1.2tl (mods) * Dectet * Bottlehead Crack - Senn 600
    Town Porch: WiiM Pro Plus * Sunfire Sig II * Canare 4S11 * Magnepan 1.6 * Dectet
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  • audioluvr
    audioluvr Posts: 5,582
    Thanks everyone! 24 hours of burn in so far. Rocking some Stray Cats with the RCA clear tops I got from @Gerres26. Anybody who says there is no audible difference in capacitors is clearly tone deaf! I'm hearing pinpoint details now that were vague and blurred before. I still have the issue of this pre having too much gain though. Wondering if something like this would help or if it would ruin the sound?

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-PACK-PROCRAFT-INLINE-ATTENUATOR-XLR-FEMALE-TO-MALE-ADAPTOR-10dB-PAD-SVP559-10/263150174657

    Gustard X26 Pro DAC
    Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
    B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
    Polk SDA 1C's modded / 1000Va Dreadnaught
    Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables
    Harman Kardon T65C w/Grado Gold. (Don't laugh. It sounds great!)

    There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January. by Dr. Sardonicus
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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 19,027
    Is there a different type of tube that you could put in that would not have as much gain (a substitute tube?)

    Tom
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • kharp1
    kharp1 Posts: 3,453
    Unlike the 12ax7/5751 swap, I don't think there is a variant of the 12au7 with "lower" gain.
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  • george daniel
    george daniel Posts: 12,096
    You do have au7’s in?
    JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)
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  • audioluvr
    audioluvr Posts: 5,582
    Yes 12au7's are installed
    Gustard X26 Pro DAC
    Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
    B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
    Polk SDA 1C's modded / 1000Va Dreadnaught
    Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables
    Harman Kardon T65C w/Grado Gold. (Don't laugh. It sounds great!)

    There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January. by Dr. Sardonicus
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  • vcwatkins
    vcwatkins Posts: 1,993
    If you're using xlr for output, maybe try rca for lesser gain?
    b]Beach Audio[/b]: Rega RP6 (mods) - AT33PTG/II - Parks Budgie SUT - PSAudio NPC * Eversolo DMP-A6 * Topping D90iii * Joule-Electra LA-100 mkIII * Pass Aleph 30 * MIT S3 * Polk SRS 2.3tl (mods) * PSAudio PPP3
    Beach Study: Pro-Ject Stream Box S2 Ultra & Pre Box S2 * Pass ACA * DH Labs SS Q10 * Brines Folded ML-TQWT RS 40-1354 * PSA Dectet
    Beach Master: WiiM Pro * Dayens Menuetto * Zu Libtec * Dynaudio Audience 50
    Beach Den: Bluesound Powernode 2i * DH Labs SS Q10 * Zu Omen DWII * Richard Gray RGPC
    Town Study: WiiM Pro * Chord Qute (Pardo) * Elekit TU-8600 * MIT S3 * Revel M22 * Beyer DT-990 * Shunyata Hydra 2
    Town Den: Music Hall mm5.1se - Denon DL-103r - Jolida JD9ii (mods) * WiiM Pro * Cary xCiter * Rogue 99 Magnum * Schiit Aegir * MIT S3 * Polk SRS 1.2tl (mods) * Dectet * Bottlehead Crack - Senn 600
    Town Porch: WiiM Pro Plus * Sunfire Sig II * Canare 4S11 * Magnepan 1.6 * Dectet
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  • audioluvr
    audioluvr Posts: 5,582
    Currently using RCA's
    Gustard X26 Pro DAC
    Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
    B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
    Polk SDA 1C's modded / 1000Va Dreadnaught
    Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables
    Harman Kardon T65C w/Grado Gold. (Don't laugh. It sounds great!)

    There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January. by Dr. Sardonicus
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  • kharp1
    kharp1 Posts: 3,453
    Some pre's and amps just have gain mismatches.
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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 19,027
    audioluvr wrote: »
    Wondering if something like this would help or if it would ruin the sound?

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-PACK-PROCRAFT-INLINE-ATTENUATOR-XLR-FEMALE-TO-MALE-ADAPTOR-10dB-PAD-SVP559-10/263150174657

    Good evening to you sir. First off, I would like to admit that I have never used one of those before, so I may well be way out of line here. If I am, the fellas around here would gladly point out that I am full of ****.

    With that said, here are my thoughts. Here goes a car analogy. Bear with me. What you have basically done is changed out your Corvette engine with Ferrari engine and are enjoying the added power and refinement that it offers. This device would be akin to installing a governor to that new Ferrari engine.

    If I am wrong, I will be the first to apologize. I was just thinking out loud here. With that said, if you have no other options (and it does not sound like you do), for that price? You might as well give it a shot. I would personally exhaust every possible avenue prior to trying these though. FWIW.

    Tom

    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • audioluvr
    audioluvr Posts: 5,582
    edited December 2019
    Well I actually have an alternative since I run everything through my CA 851N which I have currently set up with preamp off which sets volume to max. I could reset it so I can adjust the volume on it. Don't know why I didn't think of that earlier...

    Edit: Ahhh! Much better!
    Gustard X26 Pro DAC
    Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
    B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
    Polk SDA 1C's modded / 1000Va Dreadnaught
    Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables
    Harman Kardon T65C w/Grado Gold. (Don't laugh. It sounds great!)

    There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January. by Dr. Sardonicus
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  • marvda1
    marvda1 Posts: 4,901
    edited December 2019
    it does have a lot of gain so make sure you extra quiet tubes are the hiss will kill you.
    I bought a pair of these.
    www.rothwellaudioproducts.co.uk/html/attenuators.html
    Amplifiers: Norma IPA 140, MasterSound Compact 845, Ayre v6xe, Consonance Cyber 800
    Preamp: deHavilland Ultraverve 3
    Dac: Sonnet Morpheus 2, Musical Paradise mp-d2 mkIII
    Transport: Jay's Audio CDT2 mk2, Lumin U1 mini
    Speakers: Rosso Fiorentino Volterra II
    Speaker Cables: Crystal Clear Magnum Opus 2, Organic Audio Organic Reference 2
    Interconnects: Crystal Clear Magnum Opus 2, Argento Organic Reference 2, Argento Organic 2
    Power Cables: Argento Organic Reference, Synergistic Research Foundation 10 and 12 ga.
    Digital cables: Crystal Clear Magnum Opus 2 bnc, Tellurium Q aes, Silnote Audio Poseidon Signature 2 bnc
    Puritan PSM156
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  • audioluvr
    audioluvr Posts: 5,582
    Sweet! Thanks for the link!
    Gustard X26 Pro DAC
    Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
    B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
    Polk SDA 1C's modded / 1000Va Dreadnaught
    Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables
    Harman Kardon T65C w/Grado Gold. (Don't laugh. It sounds great!)

    There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January. by Dr. Sardonicus
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • audioluvr
    audioluvr Posts: 5,582
    So I've found that if I set my CA 851N's volume to 20 (30 being max) it appears the noise floor is the best. If it's not broke don't fix it right? Also I got my Mullard Mitchums in today. Ran them for about an hour but took them out. These unknown ones that came with the pre are by far the best of the 4 sets I have. Best I can interpret, they say "Hallicrafter" and "12AU7A" They have an amazing holographic quality like angels descending from heaven... o:)

    I guess that's why you roll tubes. To find out which have the best synergy with all your gear.
    Gustard X26 Pro DAC
    Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
    B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
    Polk SDA 1C's modded / 1000Va Dreadnaught
    Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables
    Harman Kardon T65C w/Grado Gold. (Don't laugh. It sounds great!)

    There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January. by Dr. Sardonicus
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  • verb
    verb Posts: 10,176
    Nice job Rob! I gotta hand it to you guys, to have the gumption to take a piece of expensive electronic equipment, and perform surgery on it. Someday, perhaps! :smile:
    Basement: Polk SDA SRS 1.2tl's, Cary SLP-05 Pre with ultimate upgrade,McIntosh MCD301 CD/SACD player, Northstar Designs Excelsio DAC, Cambridge 851N streamer, McIntosh MC300 Amp, Silnote Morpheus Ref2, Series2 Digital Cables, Silnote Morpheus Ref2 Series2 XLR's, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Pangea Power Cables, MIT Shotgun S3 IC's, MIT Shotgun S1 Bi-Wire speaker cables
    Office: PC, EAR Acute CD Player, EAR 834L Pre, Northstar Designs Intenso DAC, Antique Sound Labs AV8 Monoblocks, Denon UDR-F10 Cassette, Acoustic Technologies Classic FR Speakers, SVS SB12 Plus sub, MIT AVt2 speaker cables, IFI Purifier2, AQ Cinnamon USB cable, Groneberg Quatro Reference IC's
    Spare Room: Dayens Ampino Integrated Amp, Tjoeb 99 tube CD player (modified Marantz CD-38), Analysis Plus Oval 9's, Zu Jumpers, AudioEngine B1 Streamer, Klipsch RB-61 v2, SVS PB1000 sub, Blue Jeans RCA IC's, Shunyata Hydra 8 Power Conditioner
    Living Room: Peachtree Nova Integrated, Cambridge CXN v2 Streamer, Rotel RCD-1072 CD player, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Polk RT265 In Wall Speakers, Polk DSW Pro 660wi sub
    Garage #1: Cambridge Audio 640A Integrated Amp, Project Box-E BT Streamer, Polk Tsi200 Bookies, Douglas Speaker Cables, Shunyata Power Conditioner
    Garage #2: Cambridge Audio EVO150 Integrated Amplifier, Polk L200's, Analysis Plus Silver Oval 2 Speaker Cables, IC's TBD.
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  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 25,441
    audioluvr wrote: »
    So I've found that if I set my CA 851N's volume to 20 (30 being max) it appears the noise floor is the best. If it's not broke don't fix it right? Also I got my Mullard Mitchums in today. Ran them for about an hour but took them out. These unknown ones that came with the pre are by far the best of the 4 sets I have. Best I can interpret, they say "Hallicrafter" and "12AU7A" They have an amazing holographic quality like angels descending from heaven... o:)

    I guess that's why you roll tubes. To find out which have the best synergy with all your gear.

    Put up some pictures of said tubes. all sides and bottom. could be a triangle or doohickey that will lead to who made the tube and date.
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  • audioluvr
    audioluvr Posts: 5,582
    bz519b8bu9nj.jpg
    r22k7ghvvp58.jpg
    5fg083odz6d4.jpg
    Gustard X26 Pro DAC
    Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
    B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
    Polk SDA 1C's modded / 1000Va Dreadnaught
    Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables
    Harman Kardon T65C w/Grado Gold. (Don't laugh. It sounds great!)

    There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January. by Dr. Sardonicus
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • marvda1
    marvda1 Posts: 4,901
    I found these to sound great in the belles.
    https://upscaleaudio.com/collections/preamp-tubes/products/radiotechnique-12au7-6189
    get the highest grade.
    Amplifiers: Norma IPA 140, MasterSound Compact 845, Ayre v6xe, Consonance Cyber 800
    Preamp: deHavilland Ultraverve 3
    Dac: Sonnet Morpheus 2, Musical Paradise mp-d2 mkIII
    Transport: Jay's Audio CDT2 mk2, Lumin U1 mini
    Speakers: Rosso Fiorentino Volterra II
    Speaker Cables: Crystal Clear Magnum Opus 2, Organic Audio Organic Reference 2
    Interconnects: Crystal Clear Magnum Opus 2, Argento Organic Reference 2, Argento Organic 2
    Power Cables: Argento Organic Reference, Synergistic Research Foundation 10 and 12 ga.
    Digital cables: Crystal Clear Magnum Opus 2 bnc, Tellurium Q aes, Silnote Audio Poseidon Signature 2 bnc
    Puritan PSM156
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  • dhart86
    dhart86 Posts: 1,594
    marvda1 wrote: »
    I found these to sound great in the belles.
    https://upscaleaudio.com/collections/preamp-tubes/products/radiotechnique-12au7-6189
    get the highest grade.

    Good call Marvda1...that's one of my go to 12au7 tubes, very smooth
    Main Rig:
    Antipodes DX > Roon > PS Audio Directstream Jr.>deHavilland Ultraverve 3 >Belles Reference 150a >Harbeth C7 ES3


    Second Rig:
    Roon> PS Audio Directstream Jr Bridge II > EE Minimax pre (Tutay mods) >Belles 150A Ref >Monitor 5 (Westmassguy-modded)


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  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 25,441
    audioluvr wrote: »
    bz519b8bu9nj.jpg
    r22k7ghvvp58.jpg
    5fg083odz6d4.jpg

    That light is not helping. Is there anything between the pins on the bottom?
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  • audioluvr
    audioluvr Posts: 5,582
    Like what? Sorry for my ignorance.

    btzhc2wrdxgd.jpg
    Gustard X26 Pro DAC
    Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
    B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
    Polk SDA 1C's modded / 1000Va Dreadnaught
    Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables
    Harman Kardon T65C w/Grado Gold. (Don't laugh. It sounds great!)

    There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January. by Dr. Sardonicus
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • audioluvr
    audioluvr Posts: 5,582
    edited December 2019
    I'm kinda Leary right now. My free ones sound WAY better than the ones I just paid $100 for.
    Gustard X26 Pro DAC
    Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
    B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
    Polk SDA 1C's modded / 1000Va Dreadnaught
    Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables
    Harman Kardon T65C w/Grado Gold. (Don't laugh. It sounds great!)

    There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January. by Dr. Sardonicus
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 19,027
    Word to the wise. Study organs. Free ones.

    That's all I'm sayin'bout that!

    Tom
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • audioluvr
    audioluvr Posts: 5,582
    Copy
    Gustard X26 Pro DAC
    Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
    B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
    Polk SDA 1C's modded / 1000Va Dreadnaught
    Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables
    Harman Kardon T65C w/Grado Gold. (Don't laugh. It sounds great!)

    There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January. by Dr. Sardonicus
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • dromunds
    dromunds Posts: 10,009
    I looked over some of my 12AU7’s and although I don’t have many halo getters, these do resemble some late 1950’s Sylvanias that I have, although very hard to say as my Sylvanias are not halo getters. If so, they are very nice tubes. It appears Hallicrafters branded tubes may have also been made by GE and Tung Sol. These do not resemble my GE halo getters. MyTung Sols are from the 1940’s so different but still it appears these “could” be Tung Sols in which case that would explain the OPs glowing comments. I’m certainly no expert but it seems Hallicrafters used quality tubes in their stuff and since the company was sold in about 1969 I’m guessing these are late 50’s maybe early ‘60’s. Fortunate it appears to get them with preamp. As an aside, I have a single Rodgers branded tube that says on the box “Mitchum Mullard?” And that tube resembles the OP’s :s but I seriously doubt Hallicrafters utilized Mullard as it seems they purchased US made tubes from what I can tell being a Chicago company.
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  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 25,441
    audioluvr wrote: »
    Like what? Sorry for my ignorance.

    btzhc2wrdxgd.jpg

    Some smaller tubes had triangles, diamonds or other marks. They also had numbers all these things can point to a manufacturer of the tube.
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