FWIW, I'd suggest either of the following approaches.
1) Set the tracking at the high end of the manufacturer's specified range. IMO/IME that's usually "best" -- the low number is for bragging rights, not for best performance (again, IMO).
or
2) Set it to 'close' to 1.8 and dial it in, iteratively, to the what sounds best/tracks best to you. Feel free to torture test the system (e.g., highly modulated passages of the last track on an album).
If you really want 1.8 g; get a good VTF scale. I don't think the calibrations would be terribly trustworthy if one really wants a specific value.
Leave it to Doc to chime in with some common sense!
For 6 bucks for the scale, I'm curious how close I got it. But yeah, makes sense to err on the side of a slightly higher VTF (within the recommended range) if not using a scale!
I think that tip/advice was worth 3-4 cents minimum!
For under 400 bucks you probably can’t touch the lounge LCR. I’ve used multiple Cambridge’s and have been underwhelmed. The lounge was a definite step up ( especially in background noise, I found both Cambridge’s to be quite noisy but the lounge was silent)
2 Channel - Dual Purpose system in the works
Polk LSIM707 I Polk LSIM 706C I Modwright SWL9.0 Anniversary Pre I B&K Ref 200.7 I Rega P6 w/ Ania MC I Rega Fono MC I Audience Ohno ICs throughout I Streamer and surrounds TBD
The Schiit Mani is the most versatile as it can handle a wide variety of MC & MM carts. The ART DJ Pre II sounds better than it has a right to (at that price) and it includes a rumble filter!
The Bottlehead is a solid choice but you'll have to add the cost of tubes to it if you want to "upgrade." It goes on sale from time to time and you may be able to snag the kit with the Integration upgrade for less than $400. It's DIY so you have to build it yourself or know someone who can assist you.
For under 400 bucks you probably can’t touch the lounge LCR. I’ve used multiple Cambridge’s and have been underwhelmed. The lounge was a definite step up ( especially in background noise, I found both Cambridge’s to be quite noisy but the lounge was silent)
By "noise" do you mean an audible buzzing coming through the speakers when nothing was playing?
Correct. White noise when the needle was not dropped
2 Channel - Dual Purpose system in the works
Polk LSIM707 I Polk LSIM 706C I Modwright SWL9.0 Anniversary Pre I B&K Ref 200.7 I Rega P6 w/ Ania MC I Rega Fono MC I Audience Ohno ICs throughout I Streamer and surrounds TBD
The worst thing I can say about it is that it's not adjustable. I used it with an SUT to listen to the DL-103 and was not in the least disappointed in the quality, even though the Lounge LCR costs about a quarter of the phono preamp I usually use.
If it was my money going towards new gear I'd likely spend it on the mofi or a Vincent Pho-8. The LCR is another strong selection too. I've also read that you can have the internal wiring redone on the LCR as a nice upgrade for a reasonable cost.
I really enjoyed my iFi iPhono2 which came in at $500 new when I had it, but unfortunately people started having issues with them dying after a couple years (or less) so I wouldn't recommend them anymore. Especially not used.
If you're willing to go used, be patient, and maybe go a little over budget, you could keep an eye out for a Sutherland KC Vibe. Everyone I know that's gotten a Sutherland has either stuck with what they got, or moved further up the Sutherland chain. The KC Vibe would be a killer step up if you can find one for the right price.
I've been playing the RT-83 for over a week and very happy with it so far. Picked up a bunch of records at a thrift store which cleaned up really nice. Some records sound great but some give me a significant amount of crack and pops which can go away as the stylus makes it toward the middle. I'm guessing they are a bit warped on the outside or damaged?
Would placing a weight on the center help at all with that? I have balanced the turntable a few times even using an actual contractors level both front to back and side to side, including on the path of the tone arm. Tracking and anti skip still playing with those 1.8 - 2.5 range. I've considered getting that tuning record but $50 is a little much to spend on that. Anyone care to share their tuning method? Keep in mind this is my first turntable so there is a chance I'm doing it wrong
I've been playing the RT-83 for over a week and very happy with it so far. Picked up a bunch of records at a thrift store which cleaned up really nice. Some records sound great but some give me a significant amount of crack and pops which can go away as the stylus makes it toward the middle. I'm guessing they are a bit warped on the outside or damaged?
Would placing a weight on the center help at all with that? I have balanced the turntable a few times even using an actual contractors level both front to back and side to side, including on the path of the tone arm. Tracking and anti skip still playing with those 1.8 - 2.5 range. I've considered getting that tuning record but $50 is a little much to spend on that. Anyone care to share their tuning method? Keep in mind this is my first turntable so there is a chance I'm doing it wrong
Crackle and pop can be caused by a few things, static, dirt, scratches, and sometimes it’s just a bad pressing.
A weight has benefits, but it’s not going to fix any of those issues. A weight really doesn’t “fix” anything except very very minor warps. It really just helps tighten up specs by a small amount.
I find that running the tracking force at close to the top end of the cartridge range tends to consistently work a little better. You can buy a digital tracking force scale on amazon for $10-15, it’s well worth the investment because it lasts forever and is much more accurate then the markings on the counter weight.
Cleaning and dealing with static will give you the greatest instant improvements. Some records require more than one cleaning (even new records).
I've been playing the RT-83 for over a week and very happy with it so far. Picked up a bunch of records at a thrift store which cleaned up really nice. Some records sound great but some give me a significant amount of crack and pops which can go away as the stylus makes it toward the middle. I'm guessing they are a bit warped on the outside or damaged?
Would placing a weight on the center help at all with that? I have balanced the turntable a few times even using an actual contractors level both front to back and side to side, including on the path of the tone arm. Tracking and anti skip still playing with those 1.8 - 2.5 range. I've considered getting that tuning record but $50 is a little much to spend on that. Anyone care to share their tuning method? Keep in mind this is my first turntable so there is a chance I'm doing it wrong
Crackle and pop can be caused by a few things, static, dirt, scratches, and sometimes it’s just a bad pressing.
A weight has benefits, but it’s not going to fix any of those issues. A weight really doesn’t “fix” anything except very very minor warps. It really just helps tighten up specs by a small amount.
I find that running the tracking force at close to the top end of the cartridge range tends to consistently work a little better. You can buy a digital tracking force scale on amazon for $10-15, it’s well worth the investment because it lasts forever and is much more accurate then the markings on the counter weight.
Cleaning and dealing with static will give you the greatest instant improvements. Some records require more than one cleaning (even new records).
Any specific scales you can recommend? I was looking briefly and there are of course a bunch of them. I do use an Audioquest brush several times before lowering the stylus the record. I've not looked into anything to deal with static but do try to remove the records slowly out of the (Mofi master) sleeves.
I've been playing the RT-83 for over a week and very happy with it so far. Picked up a bunch of records at a thrift store which cleaned up really nice. Some records sound great but some give me a significant amount of crack and pops which can go away as the stylus makes it toward the middle. I'm guessing they are a bit warped on the outside or damaged?
Would placing a weight on the center help at all with that? I have balanced the turntable a few times even using an actual contractors level both front to back and side to side, including on the path of the tone arm. Tracking and anti skip still playing with those 1.8 - 2.5 range. I've considered getting that tuning record but $50 is a little much to spend on that. Anyone care to share their tuning method? Keep in mind this is my first turntable so there is a chance I'm doing it wrong
Crackle and pop can be caused by a few things, static, dirt, scratches, and sometimes it’s just a bad pressing.
A weight has benefits, but it’s not going to fix any of those issues. A weight really doesn’t “fix” anything except very very minor warps. It really just helps tighten up specs by a small amount.
I find that running the tracking force at close to the top end of the cartridge range tends to consistently work a little better. You can buy a digital tracking force scale on amazon for $10-15, it’s well worth the investment because it lasts forever and is much more accurate then the markings on the counter weight.
Cleaning and dealing with static will give you the greatest instant improvements. Some records require more than one cleaning (even new records).
Any specific scales you can recommend? I was looking briefly and there are of course a bunch of them. I do use an Audioquest brush several times before lowering the stylus the record. I've not looked into anything to deal with static but do try to remove the records slowly out of the (Mofi master) sleeves.
I've been playing the RT-83 for over a week and very happy with it so far. Picked up a bunch of records at a thrift store which cleaned up really nice. Some records sound great but some give me a significant amount of crack and pops which can go away as the stylus makes it toward the middle. I'm guessing they are a bit warped on the outside or damaged?
Would placing a weight on the center help at all with that? I have balanced the turntable a few times even using an actual contractors level both front to back and side to side, including on the path of the tone arm. Tracking and anti skip still playing with those 1.8 - 2.5 range. I've considered getting that tuning record but $50 is a little much to spend on that. Anyone care to share their tuning method? Keep in mind this is my first turntable so there is a chance I'm doing it wrong
Crackle and pop can be caused by a few things, static, dirt, scratches, and sometimes it’s just a bad pressing.
A weight has benefits, but it’s not going to fix any of those issues. A weight really doesn’t “fix” anything except very very minor warps. It really just helps tighten up specs by a small amount.
I find that running the tracking force at close to the top end of the cartridge range tends to consistently work a little better. You can buy a digital tracking force scale on amazon for $10-15, it’s well worth the investment because it lasts forever and is much more accurate then the markings on the counter weight.
Cleaning and dealing with static will give you the greatest instant improvements. Some records require more than one cleaning (even new records).
Any specific scales you can recommend? I was looking briefly and there are of course a bunch of them. I do use an Audioquest brush several times before lowering the stylus the record. I've not looked into anything to deal with static but do try to remove the records slowly out of the (Mofi master) sleeves.
The antistatic sleeves like you have are really the best thing you can do for static. What are you doing for cleaning?
Thanks for the scale recommendation. So far I have only cleaned the thrift store $1 records. I might get some slack for this but I use lukewarm water and dawn. My cleaning routine is:
1) rinse the record with tap water on both sides without getting much water on the label
2) put a drop of dawn in a bowl of lukewarm water. Using a 100% cotton round pad apply the water dawn solution to the record following the grooves of the record on both sides in a clockwise motion. Wait a few seconds
3) from the center in a clockwise motion following the grooves work the cotton again towards the outside of the record.
4) repeat in process in a counterclockwise motion.
5) rinse both sides thoroughly
6) using a new dry cotton round wipe away the wet spots following the record grooves, in clockwise motion.
7) remove any lint after it dries with the Audioquest brush.
8) insert into new Mofi master sleeve
It’s better than nothing, that’s for sure. My main tips would be do your final rinse with distilled water and use a lint free microfiber cloth for the final dry. That should help cut down on the clicks and pops.
Right. Use distilled water.
Also use natural dish liquid like 7th generation.
Before I got my RCM, I used the floor sweeper to remove the
excess water and then let them dry the rest of the way in a
dish rack. The hose attachment that is. I didn't run over them.
I agree on the use of distilled, if possible. Paint pads are good on a budget, too.
I used to finish with extra plush microfiber towels, thinking I was doing well, until I discovered the benefits of immersive wash, rinse, and drip dry - zero static.
The squeaky clean record cleaning machine that I have uses a wet/dry vac to suck up the water + cleaning fluid + dust + gunk that isn’t removed by the paint pads. I typically finish with a microfiber towel just to be sure they’re dry before they go back in a MOFI sleeve. There’s still a ton of static when handling the albums.
Maybe see what happens if you let them air dry in a stand instead (a vinyl coated dish rack would be my choice for this). I've tried a bunch of different cleaning methods, all finished with the microfiber, thinking I was doing a good thing. All staticky.
Comments
FWIW, I'd suggest either of the following approaches.
1) Set the tracking at the high end of the manufacturer's specified range. IMO/IME that's usually "best" -- the low number is for bragging rights, not for best performance
or
2) Set it to 'close' to 1.8 and dial it in, iteratively, to the what sounds best/tracks best to you. Feel free to torture test the system (e.g., highly modulated passages of the last track on an album).
If you really want 1.8 g; get a good VTF scale. I don't think the calibrations would be terribly trustworthy if one really wants a specific value.
Just my 2 cents, you know?
For 6 bucks for the scale, I'm curious how close I got it. But yeah, makes sense to err on the side of a slightly higher VTF (within the recommended range) if not using a scale!
I think that tip/advice was worth 3-4 cents minimum!
Will do. On my list for the weekend. Looking at phono pre's. Any suggestions ? $400 or less.
https://www.musicdirect.com/more-best-selling-analog-components/Cambridge-Audio-Duo-MMMC-Phono-Preamplifier
Polk LSIM707 I Polk LSIM 706C I Modwright SWL9.0 Anniversary Pre I B&K Ref 200.7 I Rega P6 w/ Ania MC I Rega Fono MC I Audience Ohno ICs throughout I Streamer and surrounds TBD
Bottlehead Reduction 1.1 $369
Schiit Mani $129
Art DJ Pre II $65
The Schiit Mani is the most versatile as it can handle a wide variety of MC & MM carts. The ART DJ Pre II sounds better than it has a right to (at that price) and it includes a rumble filter!
The Bottlehead is a solid choice but you'll have to add the cost of tubes to it if you want to "upgrade." It goes on sale from time to time and you may be able to snag the kit with the Integration upgrade for less than $400. It's DIY so you have to build it yourself or know someone who can assist you.
Vinyl: Fluance RT82 * Nagaoka MP-110 * Bottlehead Reduction + Integration Upgrade * KAB RF1
Vinyl II: Audio Technica AT-LP120X USB * AT120Eb * ART DJ Pre II * Acrylic Turntable Mat
Video: Hisense 55H8F * Panasonic DMP-UB200 * ROKU Streaming Stick + * Z-line Designs Elektra
By "noise" do you mean an audible buzzing coming through the speakers when nothing was playing?
Polk LSIM707 I Polk LSIM 706C I Modwright SWL9.0 Anniversary Pre I B&K Ref 200.7 I Rega P6 w/ Ania MC I Rega Fono MC I Audience Ohno ICs throughout I Streamer and surrounds TBD
https://hifihaven.org/index.php?threads/lounge-audio-lcr-phono-preamp-member-test-sign-up-here.3650/
The worst thing I can say about it is that it's not adjustable. I used it with an SUT to listen to the DL-103 and was not in the least disappointed in the quality, even though the Lounge LCR costs about a quarter of the phono preamp I usually use.
I really enjoyed my iFi iPhono2 which came in at $500 new when I had it, but unfortunately people started having issues with them dying after a couple years (or less) so I wouldn't recommend them anymore. Especially not used.
If you're willing to go used, be patient, and maybe go a little over budget, you could keep an eye out for a Sutherland KC Vibe. Everyone I know that's gotten a Sutherland has either stuck with what they got, or moved further up the Sutherland chain. The KC Vibe would be a killer step up if you can find one for the right price.
Digital: Cambridge CXC / Streaming > Cambridge CXN v2
MastersounD Dueventi > Usher T-515 or Arcam rHead > Hifiman HE4XX
Discogs
Not yet. Haven't even ordered it yet. Or un-boxed the turntable.
Would placing a weight on the center help at all with that? I have balanced the turntable a few times even using an actual contractors level both front to back and side to side, including on the path of the tone arm. Tracking and anti skip still playing with those 1.8 - 2.5 range. I've considered getting that tuning record but $50 is a little much to spend on that. Anyone care to share their tuning method? Keep in mind this is my first turntable so there is a chance I'm doing it wrong
A weight has benefits, but it’s not going to fix any of those issues. A weight really doesn’t “fix” anything except very very minor warps. It really just helps tighten up specs by a small amount.
I find that running the tracking force at close to the top end of the cartridge range tends to consistently work a little better. You can buy a digital tracking force scale on amazon for $10-15, it’s well worth the investment because it lasts forever and is much more accurate then the markings on the counter weight.
Cleaning and dealing with static will give you the greatest instant improvements. Some records require more than one cleaning (even new records).
Digital: Cambridge CXC / Streaming > Cambridge CXN v2
MastersounD Dueventi > Usher T-515 or Arcam rHead > Hifiman HE4XX
Discogs
Any specific scales you can recommend? I was looking briefly and there are of course a bunch of them. I do use an Audioquest brush several times before lowering the stylus the record. I've not looked into anything to deal with static but do try to remove the records slowly out of the (Mofi master) sleeves.
This is the same one I have. Zero issues.
https://www.amazon.com/Neoteck-Digital-Turntable-Backlight-Cartridge/dp/B01HRJ9NAY
The antistatic sleeves like you have are really the best thing you can do for static. What are you doing for cleaning?
Digital: Cambridge CXC / Streaming > Cambridge CXN v2
MastersounD Dueventi > Usher T-515 or Arcam rHead > Hifiman HE4XX
Discogs
Thanks for the scale recommendation. So far I have only cleaned the thrift store $1 records. I might get some slack for this but I use lukewarm water and dawn. My cleaning routine is:
1) rinse the record with tap water on both sides without getting much water on the label
2) put a drop of dawn in a bowl of lukewarm water. Using a 100% cotton round pad apply the water dawn solution to the record following the grooves of the record on both sides in a clockwise motion. Wait a few seconds
3) from the center in a clockwise motion following the grooves work the cotton again towards the outside of the record.
4) repeat in process in a counterclockwise motion.
5) rinse both sides thoroughly
6) using a new dry cotton round wipe away the wet spots following the record grooves, in clockwise motion.
7) remove any lint after it dries with the Audioquest brush.
8) insert into new Mofi master sleeve
Digital: Cambridge CXC / Streaming > Cambridge CXN v2
MastersounD Dueventi > Usher T-515 or Arcam rHead > Hifiman HE4XX
Discogs
Because I am The Pumpkinking
A Kind Word Is An Easy Gift To Give
Also use natural dish liquid like 7th generation.
Before I got my RCM, I used the floor sweeper to remove the
excess water and then let them dry the rest of the way in a
dish rack. The hose attachment that is. I didn't run over them.
Let's not forget this is where poster is.
I don't think his cleaning method is inappropriate. IMO.
Just thought I'd toss out some unsolicited advice.
I used to finish with extra plush microfiber towels, thinking I was doing well, until I discovered the benefits of immersive wash, rinse, and drip dry - zero static.
Vinyl: Fluance RT82 * Nagaoka MP-110 * Bottlehead Reduction + Integration Upgrade * KAB RF1
Vinyl II: Audio Technica AT-LP120X USB * AT120Eb * ART DJ Pre II * Acrylic Turntable Mat
Video: Hisense 55H8F * Panasonic DMP-UB200 * ROKU Streaming Stick + * Z-line Designs Elektra