Lone Star Audio Fest 2019

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Comments

  • displaynamedisplayname Posts: 784
    erniejade wrote: »
    Were you all using IPA 140? or 70?
    Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the Norma gear was as follows:

    Sonner - IPA1-40B
    Usher - HS-IPA1 (with built in DAC)
    Rosso - Norma Audio SC-2B and 8.7MR monos + REVO DS-1

    I'm least confident about which model of CD player/DAC was in use in the Rosso room, but I think that's right. All that stuff is really excellent though.
    Analog: MoFi MasterTracker > MoFi UltraDeck > Sutherland 20/20
    Digital: Cambridge CXC / Streaming > Cambridge CXN v2
    MastersounD Dueventi > Rosso Fiorentino Certaldo or Arcam rHead > Hifiman HE4XX
    Discogs
  • lightman1lightman1 Posts: 10,735
    I drank some IPAs.....
  • marvda1marvda1 Posts: 4,105
    lightman1 wrote: »
    I drank some IPAs.....
    what was the beer you had in that big bottle?
    Amplifiers: MasterSound Compact 845, Ayre v6xe, Consonance Cyber 800,Kinki Studio EX-M1
    Preamp: deHavilland Ultraverve 3
    Transport/Dac: L.K.S MH-DA004, Cayin Venus cd-100i, Musical Paradise mp-d2 mkI,
    Musical Paradise mp-d2 mkIII
    Speakers: Rosso Fiorentino Volterra II
    Speaker Cables: Organic Audio Organic Reference 2, Analysis Plus Black Mesh Oval 9,
    Cerious Technologies Graphene Extreme
    Interconnects: Argento Organic Reference 2, Argento Organic 2, Gabriel Gold Reckoning
    Power Cables by: Cullen Cables, 6sons Audio, Swiss Cables
  • lightman1lightman1 Posts: 10,735
    marvda1 wrote: »
    lightman1 wrote: »
    I drank some IPAs.....
    what was the beer you had in that big bottle?

    Nope. That was Chimay Grand Reserve.
    Trappist ale...
    Tasty!
  • voltzvoltz Posts: 5,423
    voltz wrote: »
    I use the Modwrights at home with some Rosso's Fiesole & before that I powered the Usher Mini X's with them, I got the preamp from Ron and I found the amp at "THe Music Room" for $2600 list new at $5200.

    We ran Norma gear in all 3 of Skips room it power the usher in my room and Sonner Audios speakers and the Fiesole in his room!

    How did the Ushers sound with the ModWright combo?

    How do you like the KWA 100 ???

    We never did get to listen to the Usher SD-500's at the show with them but I have used the Modwright preamp and amplifier with the Usher Mini x"s bookies and the Rosso's Fiesole's Bookies and loved the sound. I really like the KWA100SE I have and recommend the combo!

    2 ch- Polk CRS+ * Vincent SA-31MK Preamp * Vincent Sp-331 Amp * Marantz SA8005 SACD * Project Xperience Classic TT * Sumiko Blue Point #2 MC cartridge

    HT - Polk 703's * NAD T-758 * Adcom 5503 * Oppo 103 * Samsung 60" series 8 LCD
  • Mike ReeterMike Reeter Posts: 3,981
    voltz wrote: »
    voltz wrote: »
    I use the Modwrights at home with some Rosso's Fiesole & before that I powered the Usher Mini X's with them, I got the preamp from Ron and I found the amp at "THe Music Room" for $2600 list new at $5200.

    We ran Norma gear in all 3 of Skips room it power the usher in my room and Sonner Audios speakers and the Fiesole in his room!

    How did the Ushers sound with the ModWright combo?

    How do you like the KWA 100 ???

    We never did get to listen to the Usher SD-500's at the show with them but I have used the Modwright preamp and amplifier with the Usher Mini x"s bookies and the Rosso's Fiesole's Bookies and loved the sound. I really like the KWA100SE I have and recommend the combo!

    Thanks for your response, I currently have the LS-100 and a PH 9.0 Phono Pre, I'm going to look for a KWA 100SE in the future. I can't help but think that the trio would have great Synergy.

    SDA SRS 2.3TL's/SDA SRS 3.1TL's/SDA CRS+4.1TL's and some other stuff
  • kharp1kharp1 Posts: 3,463
    lightman1 wrote: »
    marvda1 wrote: »
    lightman1 wrote: »
    I drank some IPAs.....
    what was the beer you had in that big bottle?

    Nope. That was Chimay Grand Reserve.
    Trappist ale...
    Tasty!

    Oh man, that's some good stuff!
  • ZLTFULZLTFUL Posts: 5,485
    Ok...so I have been trying to gather my thoughts on this year's LSAF.
    I drove down on Thursday with my friend Joel (not a Polk forum member can be found on AVS under the screen name jearhens) and we got to the hotel around 7pm.

    After getting checked in and unloaded, I began setting up my 2 channel system.
    I brought the following down:

    Silverline Audio Sonatina MKIs
    VTL Compact 100 Monoblock tube amps
    Rotel RC-1570 Pre
    North Star Designs Incanto DAC
    Asus laptop running Tidal and Plex

    I also brought:
    2 8" Dayton Audio folded horn subs tuned to 22hz
    Behringer iNuke NU3000DSP
    (More on this in a bit)

    I brought 2 tiers of my cherry DIY rack as well.

    I had hoped on bringing my Nativ Vita streaming transport but I have been working with the manufacturer on a software glitch that causes record like pops and static when changing network streamed tracks (the on-board storage doesn't suffer from this).


    Thursday night I got everything set up and fired up and started listening/dialing in the subs.
    Those who have been to LSAF know these rooms are definitely not short on room reinforcement. To the extent that I had the gains on my sub amp backed all the way down and was still getting overly bloated bass.

    After taking a breather and checking out Skip's room, Daryl's room and Gunny's room, I went to bed.
    The next morning, after about 30 seconds in Skip's room, I had a bit of an epiphany and went back to my room to pull the subs out of the system.
    I am glad I did.

    While I was still getting some slight bloat on some songs (running tone bypass on the Rotel), I was able to dial it out by enabling the tone controls and backing down the bass by 3db. This was only noticeable on a handful of songs so most of the rest of the time, I was running with tone bypass on.

    Friday was a bit of a slow day as far as visitors to my room. So I did my own rounds and got my ears on other folks stuff.

    Josh from JWM always has a beautiful room. But I thought the first track he played was very overly bass bloated and it detracted from the overall quality of the room. The gear was top notch and most of it was new to me so at least I got to experience some new stuff I hadn't heard before.

    Gunny from Sonner Audio was up next. Always a great experience that hits me right in my love for the Scanspeak and Vifa radial ring tweeters, his room was very well balanced top to bottom and just sounded really good.

    Daryl ( @voltz ) was up next. While I was hoping to hear his Modwright gear again, he was using the entry level Norma integrated to run Skip's newest Ushers. I really liked what I heard but thought it was a bit light on the low end (this was later remedied with the addition of a sub but I didn't get back and spend any time with the combo.
    I can tell you that the new 5" driver is considerably more controlled and accurate than the previous 7" woofer from Usher. The SD500s kicked my V601s butt in nearly all aspects. And for the sub-$2k price tag will be hard to beat in the dollar/performance relam.

    Skip's room was up next and I almost drove myself insane.
    There was a slight bit of what sounded like scratchiness on the left hand Fiesole on the first track that Skip threw on for me.
    After going back and forth with my ears at various distance from both sides' drivers, it was determined that it was the track and I was being a bit overly sensitive.
    The other tracks we ran through were smooth as warmed Irish butter.
    I really enjoy the Norma's solid state impact coupled with the buttery smoothness that is very much like tubes. Norma has found a voodoo magic here that really works.

    I ducked into Russ' ( @RuSsMaN ) room and listened for a short time to his latest 3 way offering. They sounded nice and balanced and are what we have come to expect from Blowtorch Audio.

    Unfortunately, after that, I spent the rest of the weekend being a good host in my room.
    I enjoyed the many compliments but ultimately, my greatest enjoyment came from sharing my hobby with like-minded individuals.

    On Saturday, I took extensive requests and was able to add a bunch of new artists to my Tidal playlists as well as my Amazon wish list for discs to add to my collection.
    The traffic through my room on Saturday was relatively heavy and constant. And everyone seemed to enjoy what I was doing. The biggest compliment came when the guys from Blackhole Audio stopped in to the room (the same room I spent extensive time in with them in 2017) and were heaping the praise on when I broke out the SRV and Fairfield Four for them.

    On Sunday, I decided that I was going to just listen to complete albums.
    I played through Wish You Were Here, Random Access Memories, W:/2016album/, among many others.

    The traffic was much lower on Sunday but it did give me a chance to really spend some time answering questions and doling out advice.

    I love that LSAF is part vendor/manufacturer show and part enthusiast show.
    While I am not sure I am going to be bringing down another system next year, I am already anxiously awaiting the dates for 2020 so I can plan the weekend off yet again to attend.

    It isn't that I don't enjoy sharing my own gear with folks, it is that I don't think the level of effort is worth it if the effort is poo-pooed by other exhibitors (not really directing that at anyone specific but the vibe I got from some of the vendors showing was that it wasn't making them very happy to "compete" with the personal gear).
    "Some people find it easier to be conceited rather than correct."

    "Unwad those panties and have a good time man. We're all here to help each other, no matter how it might appear." DSkip
  • txcoastal1txcoastal1 Posts: 11,487
    FYI
    I heard the same flack when I showed up as an individual years ago with my Ushers

    Polkies have helped LSAF stay alive by providing gear and listening rooms

    Carry on and don’t be discouraged

    It’s a gathering of like minded audio enthusiasts and toooo much fun

    Need more to bring a system IMHO
    2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
    Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
    Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
    Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC

    erat interfectorem cesar et **** dictatorem dicere a
  • lightman1lightman1 Posts: 10,735
    I'll bring refreshments.
  • txcoastal1txcoastal1 Posts: 11,487
    Show your goods...Tom that excludes you, you’ve shown enough
    2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
    Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
    Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
    Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC

    erat interfectorem cesar et **** dictatorem dicere a
  • voltzvoltz Posts: 5,423
    edited May 2019
    I have pondered this many times, plus i like having a system in my room for after hours fun >:)

    speaking of which -> Ryan please Tell Joel, thanks for helping me with the BOOKER's ..it was a blast!
    2 ch- Polk CRS+ * Vincent SA-31MK Preamp * Vincent Sp-331 Amp * Marantz SA8005 SACD * Project Xperience Classic TT * Sumiko Blue Point #2 MC cartridge

    HT - Polk 703's * NAD T-758 * Adcom 5503 * Oppo 103 * Samsung 60" series 8 LCD
  • treitz3treitz3 Posts: 14,617
    I would love to bring the entire system down (my REAL goods) but I swore 4 years ago that 2 years ago, my system would never be featured again at an audio event beyond the event held 2 years ago. Plus, I like the event and having OTHER people/manufacturers bring their rigs. My system has been featured 5 or 6 times and that was enough for me. Those that want to hear it can come to my house now. I'm done.

    Sold both trailers, so it's not even an option anymore if I wanted it to be.

    Tom
    In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.

    ~ The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to good analogue reproduction ~

    ~ Not all things that can be measured can be heard and not all things heard can be measured ~

    ~ When the law ends, tyranny begins ~
  • GlennDogGlennDog Posts: 2,316
    lightman1 wrote: »

    Nope. That was Chimay Grand Reserve.
    Trappist ale...
    Tasty![/quote]
    kharp1 wrote: »

    Oh man, that's some good stuff!

    Fun fact; Costco carries CHIMAY on occasion. Keep your eyes pealed!

    THANKS FOR THE PIX, GUYS!
    Power Rogue M180 monos & Adcom GFA 5802
    PS Audio PerfectWave Power Plant 10
    Rears Salk SuperCharged Surrounds
    Source PSA PWT into NSD Supremo
    Pre/Pro Integra DHC 40.1
    LCD Samsung LN46B750
    Mains Salk HT2-TL
    Center Salk HT2C
    Pre Cary SLP-05
    Wires WW & MIT
  • tonybtonyb Posts: 32,488
    marvda1 wrote: »
    DSkip wrote: »
    I'll probably type up more details later, but I wanted to toss those pics in here while I had a chance.
    LSAF is insanely fun! It was great getting to meet some more polkies and hear a ton of gear. Thank you to all the more seasoned guys for taking me in and showing me the ropes. Also for the generous amounts of booze provided! Getting to hang out with everyone and chatting was the real fun of the day for sure. It was also really cool getting to have some more extended conversations with Gunny from Sonner and Josh from JWM Acoustics.

    I will certainly be going again, and I'll probably make a stronger effort to get a room for at least one night. Quite a few rooms stood out to me, and the whole experience made me appreciate my system as well. Always room for improvement, but I'm pretty happy with what I've built with my current investment.

    My personal favorites where Skip's main room (Norma and Rosso) and the JWM Acoustics room. I actually told Josh if I was there looking to buy, I would have a really hard time deciding between those two systems. Obviously that's before any price was factored in, purely based on the sound I heard at the show.

    Awesome time, and thanks to everyone involved!

    Josh is a master at the show. He always has good sound and is usually the benchmark for me as far as competition goes. I didn’t get to spend much of any time in his room this year and I’m disappointed.

    I take your statement as a great compliment given his dac was the same cost as all of my front end added together.

    As for the show, I made it around to almost every room and did my best to be a social butterfly. I was up until 4:00 am every night and had a blast. I just got home though and my body is telling me what a fool I was. Saturday night Danny Richie and I got into some pretty involved conversations and A/Bed some gear. I also had an attendee want to A/B USB cables that night so it was a lot of switching gear around.

    I want to give massive props to Voltz again. The man is a trooper and will go out of his way to do anything for anyone. If not for him I might still be at the hotel boxing things up. Gunny from Sonner was also a great help.

    Ryan helped me big time with some networking issues I was having and without that my show would’ve been much more difficult. Thanks brother!

    Cheers to all you guys. I didn’t get to see any of you as much as I would have liked but it’s still great seeing all your ugly mugs.

    skip, i beg to differ, i think josh should follow your model more. josh does have a formula, expensive equipment (awe factor), lots of bass ( awe factor), loud party volume (awe factor,(awe factor) and sprinkle in some sparkle. all this on first listen or to a novice in audio will really impress but where's the spacial cues that give you a sense of sound stage depth, height, or width? where are the nuances and textures of instruments and voices?
    great studio speakers.

    I dunno Marv, Josh and Skip have 2 different approaches. Both are masters are their own. What Josh has in his room/setup....is a boogie factor that seems to be missing from others, hence the appeal. Your not sitting there nitpicking things, just enjoying the music.

    Skip has more of an audiophile listening environment. Your pulled in, to listen for those certain things we all talk about. He does really well at creating that listening environment too.

    2 different approaches, both very good at what they do. Just my .02 there.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
  • tonybtonyb Posts: 32,488
    treitz3 wrote: »
    . Those that want to hear it can come to my house now. I'm done.
    Tom

    Hmmm....somehow my invite got lost in the mail ? :D
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
  • tonybtonyb Posts: 32,488
    I've been curious about Tekton, so I was to see some there. Not my favorite, but when you consider the $1600 price point... well then they are more interesting. Certainly worth considering if you have space and tighter budget.

    The only speaker that has impressed me from Tekton is the double impacts. Their lower lines....leave much to be desired. Spectral is worth a look and listen in roughly the same price category. I never heard a speaker literally mop the floor against another as badly.

    Looks like you gents had some fun. I take it Ron, Russ, Tom....stayed out of trouble ? If so...that's a cryin' shame.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
  • EndersShadowEndersShadow Posts: 17,150
    tonyb wrote: »
    Looks like you gents had some fun. I take it Ron, Russ, Tom....stayed out of trouble ?

    I bet they just aint incriminating themselves........ pending litigation and all.....

    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
  • nooshinjohnnooshinjohn Posts: 22,913
    tonyb wrote: »
    Looks like you gents had some fun. I take it Ron, Russ, Tom....stayed out of trouble ?

    I bet they just aint incriminating themselves........ pending litigation and all.....

    They are at the very center of a collusion investigation....

    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, TriangleArt Reference SE with Pass Labs Xono Phono Preamp, Walker Precision Motor Drive, ClearAudio Goldfinger Diamond v2 cartridge and Origin Conquerer Mk3c tonearm, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Pass Labs X0.2 three chassis preamp, PS Audio PerfectWave DAC MkII, Krell Evolution 505 SACD Player, Pioneer Elite SC-LX701, Oppo UDP-205 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds.

    I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine.” .

    “If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.”
  • voltzvoltz Posts: 5,423
    edited May 2019
    I like Josh's room, I like josh! I love what he does and he so cool! but my time in his room was very loud and was distort a bit and I lean to what Marvin felt! his wood work is special like no other..his speakers are different to Skip which me & Marvin prefer..that is just me & Marvin's thoughts..

    Tom lived in Josh's room for a reason..he was on cloud 9 in there and he said he related to Josh when talking about audio like no other!

    Tom has very special ears.. I have come to trust his ears as I have Marvin & Skips!
    Example....tom came out a a room and talked about single note bass...thne Marvin came out the same room and said the exact same thing LOL.

    You see how some can hear the same but feel a little different about certain rooms?

    everything matter in audio..but nothing more then your own ears!!!

    2 ch- Polk CRS+ * Vincent SA-31MK Preamp * Vincent Sp-331 Amp * Marantz SA8005 SACD * Project Xperience Classic TT * Sumiko Blue Point #2 MC cartridge

    HT - Polk 703's * NAD T-758 * Adcom 5503 * Oppo 103 * Samsung 60" series 8 LCD
  • BlueFoxBlueFox Posts: 13,816
    So, LSAF is both vendors, and enthusiasts with their own systems? I will have to give it a visit next year.
    Bud - Silicon Valley

    Lumin X1 file player
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD
    Pass XP-22 pre, X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers, SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on preamp, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.
  • marvda1marvda1 Posts: 4,105
    and diy
    Amplifiers: MasterSound Compact 845, Ayre v6xe, Consonance Cyber 800,Kinki Studio EX-M1
    Preamp: deHavilland Ultraverve 3
    Transport/Dac: L.K.S MH-DA004, Cayin Venus cd-100i, Musical Paradise mp-d2 mkI,
    Musical Paradise mp-d2 mkIII
    Speakers: Rosso Fiorentino Volterra II
    Speaker Cables: Organic Audio Organic Reference 2, Analysis Plus Black Mesh Oval 9,
    Cerious Technologies Graphene Extreme
    Interconnects: Argento Organic Reference 2, Argento Organic 2, Gabriel Gold Reckoning
    Power Cables by: Cullen Cables, 6sons Audio, Swiss Cables
  • kharp1kharp1 Posts: 3,463
  • treitz3treitz3 Posts: 14,617
    and smokers, oh my!
    In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.

    ~ The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to good analogue reproduction ~

    ~ Not all things that can be measured can be heard and not all things heard can be measured ~

    ~ When the law ends, tyranny begins ~
  • BlueFoxBlueFox Posts: 13,816
    And, I assume, h e l l raisers.
    Bud - Silicon Valley

    Lumin X1 file player
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD
    Pass XP-22 pre, X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers, SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on preamp, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.
  • kharp1kharp1 Posts: 3,463
    BlueFox wrote: »
    And, I assume, h e l l raisers.

    Starting to sound like a ZZ Top song...
  • tonybtonyb Posts: 32,488
    Was Doug there this year ? Nice man, I could chat with Doug all day. Rooster sit up in his nest overlooking everyone again ?
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
  • treitz3treitz3 Posts: 14,617
    Not this year. If memory serves, he stated he will be there next year. Hopefully we will see halo there as well.

    Tom
    In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.

    ~ The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to good analogue reproduction ~

    ~ Not all things that can be measured can be heard and not all things heard can be measured ~

    ~ When the law ends, tyranny begins ~
  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 8,762
    Fantastic amplifier being used in this room! How'd it sound?

    f12w8exw9aqx.jpg
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