Exploring "professional" XLRs and RCAs
Clipdat
Posts: 7,597
I just had an interesting experience in regards to XLR cables and their performance characteristics in my system, when running from my PS Audio Stellar Preamp to my PS Audio S300 amplifier.
Up until this point I had been using Monoprice "Premier Series" XLRs, which sell for $12 for a 3ft pair. I was impressed by what I was hearing and I wasn't necessarily longing for improvement. However, they are a 10ft pair and I don't like seeing the messy bunch of excess cable sitting on top of the amp. Also, I figured if these sounded so good, then surely going to Audioquest King Cobra XLRs at $150 for a 3' pair would yield an improvement. I am already using AQ KC RCAs with the rest of my components, so it seemed like a logical choice.
I put the AQ KC XLRs in on Sunday and did some listening and evaluation after letting the system play for about 15 minutes or so to warm up. The first thing I noticed was that the soundstage wasn't as wide - the sound seemed more localized to the speakers themselves. Additionally, the frequent and enjoyable 3d stereo imaging effects I had been getting seemed to be reduced. I could still hear this sensation on some tracks, but it seemed diminished and not as dramatic. I also observed that the bass seemed slightly accented or emphasized with the new cables. There was also a very slight increase to soundstage depth.
I revisited them today and took another listen. I generally confirmed what I heard on Sunday. I was missing that wide soundstage and seamless coherent wall of sound I was getting with the Monoprice XLRs.
I decided to listen to 3 test tracks I'm familiar with, and then I powered down the pre and amp, and swapped back to the Monoprice XLRs and listened to the same 3 tracks.
Within the first minute of the first test track after hooking the Monoprice cables back up, I already liked the sound more. As I continued to listen to the other two tracks, I noticed the soundstage width increased and the 3d stereo imaging effects were back. In general, they presented a more cohesive sound top to bottom. My desire to nod my head and tap my foot returned. I got that unmistakeable sensation of "Man this sounds good, and I want to turn it up even louder!".
Obviously this is a subjective experience that could very well ONLY be replicated in my system, in my room, on my setup, with my music, and with my ears, but still, I felt it was worth sharing. I just find it interesting that I preferred the performance of a cable that costs so much less.
So, it got me thinking about what other "professional" style XLR and RCA cables are available. Products marketed toward professional muscians or studios seem to be relatively free of lofty audiophile style performance claims and exotic construction materials. Instead, they seem to focus on build quality and reliability, along with well known conductor choices like oxygen free copper and durable connectors with gold or silver plating.
I decided to order a few XLR choices for audition that I found interesting and inexpensive:
Kopul Premier Quad Pro 5000 Series: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/878182-REG/kopul_m5003_quad_pro_cable_xlr_m.html - $38 for a 3' pair. 4 conductor design, 24ga OFC, Neutrik XX connectors.
Interesting internal geometry:
RapcoHorizon SilverHog: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/999493-REG/rapcohorizon_slvrhogm_3_silverhog_microphone_cable_3.html - $40 for a 3' pair. 2 conductor design, silver plated copper conductors which is surprising and welcome at this price point.
I also started looking at interesting professional RCA cable options. I'd like to try the following against each other as well as against my AQ King Cobra RCAs:
Mogami Gold: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1154337-REG/mogami_gold_rca_rca_03_gold_rca_to_rca.html - $76 for a 3' pair. This uses their 2964 coax cable.
Hosa w/ silver plated REAN connectors: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/828290-REG/Hosa_Technology_HRR_003X2_Pro_Stereo_Interconnect_Dual.html - $16 for a 3' pair.
Kopul w/ gold plated REAN connectors: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1023115-REG/kopul_src_4003_stereo_rca_cable_3.html - $13 for a 3' pair.
In regards to the above three RCA cables, I'm not seeing any obvious shortcomings in terms of their material choices or construction quality.
In summary, I'm just trying to "simplify" the cabling in my system and take a different approach than what would be considered normal or expected. I'm genuinely curious how these low cost "professional" type cables will sound versus the AQ King Cobras. It could be a complete failure and waste of money, or it could be an insightful experience in regards to revealing what is possible in cable performance at lower price points.
Up until this point I had been using Monoprice "Premier Series" XLRs, which sell for $12 for a 3ft pair. I was impressed by what I was hearing and I wasn't necessarily longing for improvement. However, they are a 10ft pair and I don't like seeing the messy bunch of excess cable sitting on top of the amp. Also, I figured if these sounded so good, then surely going to Audioquest King Cobra XLRs at $150 for a 3' pair would yield an improvement. I am already using AQ KC RCAs with the rest of my components, so it seemed like a logical choice.
I put the AQ KC XLRs in on Sunday and did some listening and evaluation after letting the system play for about 15 minutes or so to warm up. The first thing I noticed was that the soundstage wasn't as wide - the sound seemed more localized to the speakers themselves. Additionally, the frequent and enjoyable 3d stereo imaging effects I had been getting seemed to be reduced. I could still hear this sensation on some tracks, but it seemed diminished and not as dramatic. I also observed that the bass seemed slightly accented or emphasized with the new cables. There was also a very slight increase to soundstage depth.
I revisited them today and took another listen. I generally confirmed what I heard on Sunday. I was missing that wide soundstage and seamless coherent wall of sound I was getting with the Monoprice XLRs.
I decided to listen to 3 test tracks I'm familiar with, and then I powered down the pre and amp, and swapped back to the Monoprice XLRs and listened to the same 3 tracks.
Within the first minute of the first test track after hooking the Monoprice cables back up, I already liked the sound more. As I continued to listen to the other two tracks, I noticed the soundstage width increased and the 3d stereo imaging effects were back. In general, they presented a more cohesive sound top to bottom. My desire to nod my head and tap my foot returned. I got that unmistakeable sensation of "Man this sounds good, and I want to turn it up even louder!".
Obviously this is a subjective experience that could very well ONLY be replicated in my system, in my room, on my setup, with my music, and with my ears, but still, I felt it was worth sharing. I just find it interesting that I preferred the performance of a cable that costs so much less.
So, it got me thinking about what other "professional" style XLR and RCA cables are available. Products marketed toward professional muscians or studios seem to be relatively free of lofty audiophile style performance claims and exotic construction materials. Instead, they seem to focus on build quality and reliability, along with well known conductor choices like oxygen free copper and durable connectors with gold or silver plating.
I decided to order a few XLR choices for audition that I found interesting and inexpensive:
Kopul Premier Quad Pro 5000 Series: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/878182-REG/kopul_m5003_quad_pro_cable_xlr_m.html - $38 for a 3' pair. 4 conductor design, 24ga OFC, Neutrik XX connectors.
Interesting internal geometry:
RapcoHorizon SilverHog: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/999493-REG/rapcohorizon_slvrhogm_3_silverhog_microphone_cable_3.html - $40 for a 3' pair. 2 conductor design, silver plated copper conductors which is surprising and welcome at this price point.
I also started looking at interesting professional RCA cable options. I'd like to try the following against each other as well as against my AQ King Cobra RCAs:
Mogami Gold: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1154337-REG/mogami_gold_rca_rca_03_gold_rca_to_rca.html - $76 for a 3' pair. This uses their 2964 coax cable.
Hosa w/ silver plated REAN connectors: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/828290-REG/Hosa_Technology_HRR_003X2_Pro_Stereo_Interconnect_Dual.html - $16 for a 3' pair.
Kopul w/ gold plated REAN connectors: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1023115-REG/kopul_src_4003_stereo_rca_cable_3.html - $13 for a 3' pair.
In regards to the above three RCA cables, I'm not seeing any obvious shortcomings in terms of their material choices or construction quality.
In summary, I'm just trying to "simplify" the cabling in my system and take a different approach than what would be considered normal or expected. I'm genuinely curious how these low cost "professional" type cables will sound versus the AQ King Cobras. It could be a complete failure and waste of money, or it could be an insightful experience in regards to revealing what is possible in cable performance at lower price points.
"Electronic music is human sound adapting to indulge technology, and for some, it feels like the signature sound of energy. New and abstract sounds over hypnotic rhythms can conjure vast soundscapes for escape, pleasure, and transcendence."
Comments
SDA 1C's - Full mod with the help by Dave...
1000 Va Dreadnought- w/ WireWorld Mini-Eclipse cables
WireWorld Mini-Eclipse 7 speaker cables
WireWorld Silver Eclipse IC's
Cambridge Audio Azur 851N - DAC/Streamer
Belles 21A Tube Pre
Belles 350A Reference Amp
BLE-Design 16mm Power Cables
Denon DVD 2900
Barn system:
SDA SRS 2.3's Full mod done by myself
Carver C-1 pre
Carver M1.5t
BluDenso - Bluetooth receiver/DAC
"No, that's silly talk. Dude, you can't possibly be this audio dumb so quit the act." - Doro
Have you used that specific pair I linked?
All hosa products suffered a similar problem, extremely poor build quality. Doesn't matter how they sound if they fall apart in your hand
"No, that's silly talk. Dude, you can't possibly be this audio dumb so quit the act." - Doro
Just check the connectors for continuity first, make sure the shield and hot are not shorted. Maybe go as far to hook them up to gear you don't like first.
"No, that's silly talk. Dude, you can't possibly be this audio dumb so quit the act." - Doro
Look forward to hearing about the results of your cable experiments.
Those Monoprice XLRs were my first XLR cables, and I actually preferred them over some others. I should break those out again to see how they compare now that I've learned a little bit.
Vinyl: Fluance RT82 * Nagaoka MP-110 * Bottlehead Reduction + Integration Upgrade * KAB RF1
Vinyl II: Audio Technica AT-LP120X USB * AT120Eb * ART DJ Pre II * Acrylic Turntable Mat
Video: Hisense 55H8F * Panasonic DMP-UB200 * ROKU Streaming Stick + * Z-line Designs Elektra
Living Room:,T+A PA 1530R, Tyler Highland H2, High Fidelity Reveal RCA, PS Audio Direct Stream JR.
Have but haven't used in a while: LH Labs VI Dac, Cayin SCD50T, Aries Mini, Grant Fidelity Tube Dac 11, W4S recovery.
Bryston 4B3, Bryston BDA3, Cary SLP05, Shanling CDT1000SE with parts conneXion level 2 mods, Nottingham analogue ace space 294, soundsmith Carmen MKii, Zu DL103 MKii, Ortofon MC 20 MKii, Dynavector XX2 MKii, Rogue Audio Ares, Core power technologies balanced power conditioner, Akiko Corelli power conditioner with Akiko Audio HQ power cable, Nordost heimdall 2, Frey 2, interconnects, speaker and power cables, Focal Electra 1028 BE 2, Auralic Aries Femto, Black diamond racing cones, ingress audio level 1 roller blocks, JL Audio E110 with Auralic subdude, Primacoustics room treatments.
Theater:
Focal Aria 926,905,CC900, SVS PB ultra x2. Pioneer Elite SC85, Oppo BDP93, Panamax M5400PM, Minix neox6, Nordost Blue heaven LS power cables.
I had the AQ Sidewinder RCA/RCA IC's many years ago. I recently went with the AQ Golden Gate RCA/RCA IC's in my setup and I like them quite a bit. They're a good value with the PSC if you can find them used or discounted as I did. But, I had to go with the AQ Red River RCA/RCA IC's on the outputs of the Bottlehead phono pre as the taps aren't close enough together for use with the Golden Gates (same cable but the Red River is separated into 2 separate cables compared to the 1 with the Golden Gate). Again, I was lucky to find a good deal on a pre-owned set of cables > new.
Vinyl: Fluance RT82 * Nagaoka MP-110 * Bottlehead Reduction + Integration Upgrade * KAB RF1
Vinyl II: Audio Technica AT-LP120X USB * AT120Eb * ART DJ Pre II * Acrylic Turntable Mat
Video: Hisense 55H8F * Panasonic DMP-UB200 * ROKU Streaming Stick + * Z-line Designs Elektra
Monoprice Premier
Kopul Premier Quad Pro 5000
Audioquest Red River (to be fair, these retail for more, at $150 for a .5m pair)
RapcoHorizon SilverHog
I'm going to listen to the SilverHogs for another few days, and then I will revisit the Monoprice and Kopul cables to reaffirm and validate my findings. After that I will write a lengthy review, describing what I noticed with each.
I will say one of the most interesting things to me so far in this "budget" XLR cable roundup, is how each of the XLR cables I've tried has a different sound and a unique way of presenting the music.
These are discernible, noticeable, and repeatable differences. It's been a great experience so far.
What your describing is differences in any cable, professional, Balanced or not. What you will find, if you ever get there, is the differences become more discernable the farther up the chain you go. To me, there is no such thing as a "professional" cable. Even pro's use cables from all sorts of makers like Analysis plus, Wireworld, MIT, Acoustic zen, and other brands you've never heard of.
The trick of course, is matching cables to the quality of gear you have. Makes no sense to put 3k worth of cables on a 500 buck system, it won't transform mediocre into a superstar. Also makes no sense to put cheap cables on an expensive system, because you won't hear what the gear has to offer.
Just my .02 and good luck with your experiment. Rock on
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's
Why would they not?
Resistance.
Capacitance.
Inductance.
Two of these are frequency dependent.
All three also depend on length.
EDIT: Just to be clear, I don't mean to be negative nor dismissive with this post. All of the stuff that folks think about in terms of the construction of cables boils down to how they impact the cable's performance as a (more or less lossy) transmission line.
Improving Capacitance and Inductance at the same time is difficult to impossible. Any design / braid /or twist you use to reduce Inductance will increase Capacitance (an vice-versa). So there is no free lunch and the cable manufacturers pick one (or "tune" their cables somewhere in the middle). This is probably the main reason we hear differences with the various cables and why the same cable can give different results on different systems.
So my dumb question is...
Do you guys and gals believe in the directional style cables?
Have any of you reversed the cable's direction the arrows point towards on those type of cables JUST to see if the sound changes?
I, being inquisitive sometimes might just do that. I saw some interconnects online the other day thought about this.
I still need to get with Doug and order some of his cables!!
Interesting to know..... I’m trying to get into a prepro and then use XLR for my B&K and pro amps, so it’s good to know you like the Signals better.
They are quite a bit cheaper than Hero’s or even PBJ XLRs...
Some cable is directional simply because it has a shield attached at one end. This kind of directionality is "real" and simple to understand -- at least in principle.
https://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/185121/a-simple-stupid-question-re-single-end-shielded-unbalanced-interconnects
Allow me to finish this roundup/review first and then I might take you up on that. Right now I have more than enough to listen to and evaluate.
Perhaps when I reach the conclusion of which cable sounds best to me, it will actually help guide me toward a higher end cable with a similar sonic character. Might have to defer to those who have "been there, done that" for guidance at that point! I'm still learning!