Okey-dokey, (finally) the ELAC "DEBUT 2.0 B6.2" loudspeakers are, umm, speaking
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mhardy6647 wrote: »mhardy6647 wrote: »OK, the tone, transparency, imaging and stuff is pretty good with these -- but the squashed dynamics is killin' me.
Ergo
This morning, I prosecuted the nuclear option and hooked up the (such as it is) most powerful and (perhaps/arguably) best sounding high-power/soiled state hifi component in the house -- a Yamaha CR-2020.
All I can say at this point is that it works and seemed a bit crisper & livelier than the hk.
In total fairness, the hk was bought strictly as-is (and presumably utterly in unrestored condition); the Yamaha was purchased rehabbed -- and cost real money, believe it or not. Yes, Marky spent actual money on a (vintage) hifi component. It's a rare occurrence, but it does happen some times.
Semi-monstrous 1970s soiled state receivers by Mark Hardy, on Flickr
It's the one on the right. Ca. 100 wpc
PS This is a scan of an actual photograph taken on actual film with an actual camera.
Interesting. The yamaha is 100 Watts/Channel, but honestly think the HK would put out more real world power.
Even rated at 70 watts/channel HK's were usually under-rated, and would often do, almost double the rated output, and worked great with even 4 ohm loads.
If anything the condition of the HK may be in question, as you say.
I concur, which is why I started with the hk. Well, that and the fact it's lighter and was easier to disinter than the Yamaha.
The hk is strictly as found, though.
On the other hand, it was only $40... which is why it followed me home.
It seems to work fine, but it is also safe to assume it's in need of refreshment.
We have a stack of HK stuff from that Era, love the look but it does not match anything silver or black but has it's own nice "champagne gold" color.
Have been using the lowest cost HK ever from that era recently, it was never revamped or had anything at all done to it.
It is the HK 350i receiver, a small 20 W/channel unit that is quite nice sounding, and sounds more like almost 40 watts.
Our one Old Pioneer SX Receiver is 45 watts and they seem fairly equal as far as loudness goes, but the HK unit sounds more neutral, hard to explain, but the Pioneer sounds nice, but you can just tell it is slightly coloured.
(He ran a test of the HK frequency Response, and it was nearly ruler flat, but rose a small bit in the lower bass region.)
Our Yamaha Receivers were truly "ruler flat", no deviation at all from flat.
have not measured the Pioneer or any others yet, takes a lot of time to set up the stuff, and we only do it when there is a lot of free time. -
I would just get some inexpensive isolation pads like these or similar and put back on the KLH's or another speaker that gives you the right height. I've had Revel M22's and LSA1 Statements sitting on my Hartley's like that with no material ill effects (compared to when sitting on these stands, anyway).
b]Beach Audio[/b]: Rega RP6 (mods) - AT33PTG/II - Parks Budgie SUT - PSAudio NPC * Eversolo DMP-A6 * Topping D90iii * Joule-Electra LA-100 mkIII * Pass Aleph 30 * MIT S3 * Polk SRS 2.3tl (mods) * PSAudio PPP3
Beach Study: Pro-Ject Stream Box S2 Ultra & Pre Box S2 * Pass ACA * DH Labs SS Q10 * Brines Folded ML-TQWT RS 40-1354 * PSA Dectet
Beach Master: WiiM Pro * Dayens Menuetto * Zu Libtec * Dynaudio Audience 50
Beach Den: Bluesound Powernode 2i * DH Labs SS Q10 * Zu Omen DWII * Richard Gray RGPC
Town Study: WiiM Pro * Chord Qute (Pardo) * Elekit TU-8600 * MIT S3 * Revel M22 * Beyer DT-990 * Shunyata Hydra 2
Town Den: Music Hall mm5.1se - Denon DL-103r - Jolida JD9ii (mods) * WiiM Pro * Cary xCiter * Rogue 99 Magnum * Schiit Aegir * MIT S3 * Polk SRS 1.2tl (mods) * Dectet * Bottlehead Crack - Senn 600
Town Porch: WiiM Pro Plus * Sunfire Sig II * Canare 4S11 * Magnepan 1.6 * Dectet -
I would just get some inexpensive isolation pads like these or similar and put back on the KLH's or another speaker that gives you the right height. I've had Revel M22's and LSA1 Statements sitting on my Hartley's like that with no material ill effects (compared to when sitting on these stands, anyway).
Have you tried these?
Just curious how soft/dense the foam really is. .
I see it says 50kg/m etc, but in real world description... -
Family Room HT 7.2/i]:Vizio Oled55h1 Pioneer Elite SC-LX502 Pioneer Elite BDP 85FD Eversolo DMP A6 Panamax M5300-EXSpeakers Fronts Fluance XF8L Center Polk Audio S35 Side Surrounds Optimus LS30's Rear Surrounds Optimus LS30's Subs SVS PB4000 x2 Living room 2ch: Crown Xli 1500 amp Teac EQ MKII FX Audio X6 Mk II DAC Squeezebox Touch Fluance Signature Tower Speakers Panamax M5100-EXOffice media room:Vizio M50Q6 50" Pioneer Elite VSX LX103 Squeezebox Touch Polkaudio R50 Towers Polkaudio CS 10 Panamax M4300 Monoprice 12" subMaster bedroom:Vizio M55Q7 Pioneer Elite VSX LX302 Pioneer Elite BDP 85FD Squeezebox Touch Polk audio RTi 6 fronts, Rears Dayton B652 Polk Audio CS10 center Monoprice 12" sub Panamax M5300-EX
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OK, OK, Ok -- a substantive update, at last!
Based on good advice here (and elsewhere), and a little catalytic nudge from @ALL212's thread on improving cat scratching posts speaker standshttps://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/185094/cheap-less-expensive-speaker-stand-modified I looked around the ol' casa to see what I might find that would make better speaker stands for the ELACs -- at the least, something that would get them to, or closer to, ELAC's recommended height (28 to 31inches).
Heh, we have a set of those oak folding "TV trays"/occasional tables that were oh-so-popular in the 1980s. I grabbed two of 'em and took 'em upstairs. MacGyver would be proud.
I also, finally, fabricated a new pair of wires interconnects using some bulk Mogami shielded two-conductor microphone cable and inexpensive but pretty nice REAN Neutrik RCA plugs. Fresh made, I installed them 'twixt source and amplifier receiver.
So, yeah, we're lookin' pretty goofy upstairs -- zero audiophile cred... but getting these up to 'ear level' brought the full-range frequency balance of these to an excellent place. The only sin of these now is a sin of omission: they don't go deep but they sound full without sounding artificial (the old underdamped mid-base bump is not present). The tweeters are doing OK overall (as best my elderly ears can tell), at least with the grilles off.
And the quality of vocals is, I'd say, superb with great transparency presence, and dispersion. I am used to pretty high quality vocal reproduction, and I am very much liking what I am now hearing.
DSC_3856 by Mark Hardy, on Flickr
DSC_3853 (2) by Mark Hardy, on Flickr
I am going to invest in some decent (if not high end) stands for these anon.
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Looks good! I've enjoyed reading your chronicle about these speakers.
And, I may have one or two of those tables sneakink around my room somewhere.
May I suggest, rotate the tables so that the speaker sits on one of the shorter edges. I briefly used a pair of tables like that, and it sounded better that way. Granted, this was with a pair of my friends JBLs which are a totally different animal, at least I assume.
Good luck in your experimenting. -
Not a bad idea, in fact -- and, of course, readily testable.
We like testable hypotheses in my line of work
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Nice job Mark! The most important thing is that you are having fun, and I gather from your update that you are. Good stuff.
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I am.
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Thanks for given us your impressions! How would you say these compare to a pair of well modded monitor 5s?
System 1:Nakamichi PA-7Kenwood Basic C2Polk SDA 1C moddedSystem 2:Dynaco ST-70Polk Monitor 5B modded -
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I would just get some inexpensive isolation pads like these or similar and put back on the KLH's or another speaker that gives you the right height. I've had Revel M22's and LSA1 Statements sitting on my Hartley's like that with no material ill effects (compared to when sitting on these stands, anyway).
Have you tried these?
Just curious how soft/dense the foam really is. .
I see it says 50kg/m etc, but in real world description...
I'm using these on the cubs, they weigh 80 pounds and keep them level and angled as needed- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit. -
@VR3 "80 pounds" is that a typo?
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Nope...
85 pounds actually
- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit. -
@VR3 Hey is that Optimus Prime?!?!?!
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That is grimlock, ultra magnus and devastator...
Optimus prime is on the other side
- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit. -
"Quit hoggin' the Engergon!"
+1 on those speaker pads that SketchyCraig linked up above. I love those things. They're fantastic for isolation. Pretty firm foam. They do not squish down like a sponge under the weight of speakers. I've used them beneath 703s with the pads larger than the 703 footprint, and the speakers did not sink in.
I have a larger set of these iso pads beneath some Monitor 10s right now, which are sitting on some small platforms I made. I have the pad configured for rear tilt.I disabled signatures. -
So @VR3 whatcha hiding behind that erased square in your picture lol"....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
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photo of family :-p- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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I'm gonna get a set of those elacs for the shop rig (Pioneer SX-780).Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
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I'm gonna get a set of those elacs for the shop rig (Pioneer SX-780).
If it were me, I'd go with the S20's Audio: Polk S15 * Polk S35 * Polk S10 * SVS SB-1000 Pro
HT: Samsung QN90B * Marantz NR1510 * Panasonic DMP-BDT220 * Roku Ultra LT * APC H10 -
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mine too... we must be related- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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My Elacs are pairing better with a Yami AVR than they did with a Marantz pm8006 integrated, go figure.
https://youtu.be/pwsmndYGss4
