Okey-dokey, (finally) the ELAC "DEBUT 2.0 B6.2" loudspeakers are, umm, speaking
Comments
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OK, the loudspeakers are perched astride a pair of KLH Sixes that my son brought me home at Christmastime (the apple doesn't fall far from the tree, you know?).
Yeah, yuuuuuuuuuge difference in balance across the spectrum from the previous orientation. Much better. Much, much better.
I am such a moron.
further details as events warrant.
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OK, the tone, transparency, imaging and stuff is pretty good with these -- but the squashed dynamics is killin' me.
Ergo
This morning, I prosecuted the nuclear option and hooked up the (such as it is) most powerful and (perhaps/arguably) best sounding high-power/soiled state hifi component in the house -- a Yamaha CR-2020.
All I can say at this point is that it works and seemed a bit crisper & livelier than the hk.
In total fairness, the hk was bought strictly as-is (and presumably utterly in unrestored condition); the Yamaha was purchased rehabbed -- and cost real money, believe it or not. Yes, Marky spent actual money on a (vintage) hifi component. It's a rare occurrence, but it does happen some times.
Semi-monstrous 1970s soiled state receivers by Mark Hardy, on Flickr
It's the one on the right. Ca. 100 wpc
PS This is a scan of an actual photograph taken on actual film with an actual camera.
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I rejiggered the 'system' to which these are connected and have finally made some positive progress on them.
If you're suitably curious or bored, you can read my "review" at:
https://hifihaven.org/index.php?threads/elac-debut-2-0-b6-2-an-ongoing-review.4433/
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mhardy6647 wrote: »I rejiggered the 'system' to which these are connected and have finally made some positive progress on them.
If you're suitably curious or bored, you can read my "review" at:
https://hifihaven.org/index.php?threads/elac-debut-2-0-b6-2-an-ongoing-review.4433/
I was bored and curious, so I read your review. Very pithy. I suspect spiked steel stands as opposed to your custom structures may do something for the bass, but I am surprised that they are rolled off - the majority of modern speakers seem bright to me.
Now, to address the elephant in the room (your room), to wit: what is the article at bottom right three quarters in the photo? A valve, sorry tube, telephone handset? A satellite phone? An audiophile sound measurement device? An interrossiter? -
It’s a walkie talkie to monitor chatter between Mike and Eleven
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mhardy6647 wrote: »I rejiggered the 'system' to which these are connected and have finally made some positive progress on them.
If you're suitably curious or bored, you can read my "review" at:
https://hifihaven.org/index.php?threads/elac-debut-2-0-b6-2-an-ongoing-review.4433/
I was bored and curious, so I read your review. Very pithy. I suspect spiked steel stands as opposed to your custom structures may do something for the bass, but I am surprised that they are rolled off - the majority of modern speakers seem bright to me.
Now, to address the elephant in the room (your room), to wit: what is the article at bottom right three quarters in the photo? A valve, sorry tube, telephone handset? A satellite phone? An audiophile sound measurement device? An interrossiter?
The stand thing is bugging me
For two reasons:
1) I don't's gots no good/modern stands.
2) Why should the purchaser of a cheap pair of entry-level loudspeakers have to spend as much or more for a pair of stands to put 'em on?
I'm goin' all Andy Rooney now! Aren't these bookshelf speakers? Can't we expect people [i[to put 'em on bookshelves?[/i]. 
OK, OK, yeah -- no bookshelves in the room, either ('cept a couple of IKEA Expedites, which won't work).
The gizmo is a dump find speaker phone/cordless (yes, land line) It is my "office phone" for my consultancy
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What is this "land line"?
Nowadays describing such speakers as "bookshelf" is a complete misnomer. It's not what they're designed for anymore, if it ever was - maybe somebody called them that as their size meant they would fit on a bookshelf. We have "floorstanders", so maybe these should be "standstanders? -
What is this "land line"?
Nowadays describing such speakers as "bookshelf" is a complete misnomer. It's not what they're designed for anymore, if it ever was - maybe somebody called them that as their size meant they would fit on a bookshelf. We have "floorstanders", so maybe these should be "standstanders?
I like that -- it's deliciously tautological.
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I’m getting no one got the Stranger Things reference.
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joecoulson wrote: »I’m getting no one got the Stranger Things reference.
Oh I got it. Awesome show!
I will concur, Mark, that I was quite amazed way back in the day at the difference good, filled stands made in the bass response and imaging or a pair of RTi6s. And yes, they add quite a bit percentage wise to the cost, which is why a lot of folks here will say you may as well just go for the floorstanders...Living Room 2.2: Usher BE-718 "tiny dancers"; Dual DIY Dayton audio RSS210HF-4 Subs with Dayton SPA-250 amps; Arcam SA30; Musical Fidelity A308; Sony UBP-x1000es
Game Room 5.1.4: Denon AVR-X4200w; Sony UBP-x700; Definitive Technology Power Monitor 900 mains, CLR-3000 center, StudioMonitor 350 surrounds, ProMonitor 800 atmos x4; Sub - Monoprice Monolith 15in THX Ultra
Bedroom 2.1 Harmon Kardon HK3490; Bluesounds Node N130; Polk RT25i; ACI Titan Subwoofer -
joecoulson wrote: »I’m getting no one got the Stranger Things reference.
Yeah I got it, which is why I LOL’d it.Oh, Listen here mister. We got no way of understandin' this world. But we got as much sense of this bird flyin in the sky. Now there is a lot that bird don't know, but it don't change the fact that the world is happening to him all the same. What I am tryin to say is, is that the course of your life, well its changing, and you don't even see it- Forest Bondurant -
I like that -- it's deliciously tautological.
I'd be more inclined to call it a lot of old bollocks. -
I like that -- it's deliciously tautological.
I'd be more inclined to call it a lot of old bollocks.
Not necessarily mutually exclusive
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mhardy6647 wrote: »
A testicular tautology? I had that once after a rugby match...oh, wait a minute, torsion, that was the word. -
Ok, let's see here. Your usual speakers are dynamic, horn based(ear bleeding, headache inducing) Altecs. You feel the Elac's are rolled off. Here's my shocked face 😱.
Sorry, bad attempt at humor. But your impressions seem pretty predictable. -
Well, now -- I see your point
Nothing ear-bleeding about the daily drivers here -- I am real sensitive to the ear-gougers (remember that I once owned a pair of Klipsch Cornwalls).
The modern hot treble trend is not in evidence with these ELACs -- and, mind you, that's consistent with "literature reports" and it's also not unwelcome.
It's the midbass resonance that is galling me.
The consensus absolutely seems to be - put 'em up on proper stands.
Plans are undergoing foment.
but, but, but...
now I need to go all Andy Rooney again (wonder how he felt about ear-gouging loudspeakers?):
You know, I am fine with the notion of loudspeakers that are designed to present themselves properly on stands. But, I mean, you know* -- shouldn't the manufacturer, like, tell you that "for best results, you'll want to put these on
stands that cost at least as much as the speakers"? Maybe even sell a pair of stands for them? Is that asking too much?
Here's the information from the 'instruction manual' that comes with the speakers.
source: https://elac-content.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/2018/02/Final-Debut-2.0-Owners-Manual-English.pdf
I mean, am I asking too much?
Now, if you'll excuse me, I have some clouds that I have to go out and yell at now.
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* You can hear ol' Andy saying this, right?
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Actually, in seriousness and out of deference to their instructions, I should try them "1 to 2 feet" from the back wall, as suggested Kind of hard to imagine that
such placement could improve response irregularities in the midbass, but, heck,
1) I've been wrong before, 2) it is possible that Andy & Co. know more than me about their product, and 3) it's hard to beat empiricism.
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OK, score: the rest of the internet (maybe the real world, too) 1, Marky 0.
But that's not a bad thing - at least in this case.
Yeah, kind of a decaying urban inner-city neighborhood way to get them, sort of, onto more appropriate stands -- but even this proved the point.
Thanks, folks! More to come on these loudspeakers anon.
Read my exploits, if time's hangin' heavy on your hands, at:
https://hifihaven.org/index.php?threads/elac-debut-2-0-b6-2-an-ongoing-review.4433/post-85207
Oh, one other thought/question -- the aforementioned local guru who recommended these loudspeakers to me in the first place has also suggested these.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00U5T6JNS/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o07__o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
I mean, they only cost thirty-nine dollars more than did the loudspeakers.
His comment, though:I also purchased these to work together with the stands:
...
Yes they do work!
Any thought/comments/experience -- or similar products/ideas? I mean, I do have more hocky pucks in stock!
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@mhardy6647 I got a pair of those for myself when I bought em for my daughter since they were half price. Keep the reviews coming because mine are in another State and I haven't been able to look at them since I got em lol
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mhardy6647 wrote: »OK, the tone, transparency, imaging and stuff is pretty good with these -- but the squashed dynamics is killin' me.
Ergo
This morning, I prosecuted the nuclear option and hooked up the (such as it is) most powerful and (perhaps/arguably) best sounding high-power/soiled state hifi component in the house -- a Yamaha CR-2020.
All I can say at this point is that it works and seemed a bit crisper & livelier than the hk.
In total fairness, the hk was bought strictly as-is (and presumably utterly in unrestored condition); the Yamaha was purchased rehabbed -- and cost real money, believe it or not. Yes, Marky spent actual money on a (vintage) hifi component. It's a rare occurrence, but it does happen some times.Semi-monstrous 1970s soiled state receivers by Mark Hardy, on Flickr
It's the one on the right. Ca. 100 wpc
PS This is a scan of an actual photograph taken on actual film with an actual camera.
@mhardy6647
Hummm, first SOILED STATE I’ve heard of???
Pio Elete Pro 520
Panamax 5400-EX
Sunfire TGP 5
Micro Seiki DD-40 - Lyra-Dorian and Denon DL-160
PS Audio GCPH phono pre
Sunfire CG 200 X 5
Sunfire CG Sig 405 X 5
OPPO BDP-83 SE
SDA SRS 1.2TL Sonicaps and Mills
Ctr CS1000p
Sur - FX1000 x 4
SUB - SVS PB2-Plus
Workkout room:
Sony Bravia XBR- 32-Inch 1080p
Onkyo TX-DS898
GFA 555
Yamaha DVD-S1800BL/SACD
Ft - SDA 1C
Not being used:
RTi 38's -4
RT55i's - 2
RT25i's -2, using other 2 in shop
LSI 15's
CSi40
PSW 404 -
These are the ones I wanted to cinder block
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What, here?
heh-heh-heh.
For better or worse, I am a child of the seventies.
DSC_0187 by Mark Hardy, on Flickr
DSC_0322 by Mark Hardy, on Flickr
DSC_0326 by Mark Hardy, on Flickr
DSC_0328 by Mark Hardy, on Flickr
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Love vintage equipment. Sometimes I think about buying a early/mid-70's monster Pioneer Integrated.Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
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Love vintage equipment. Sometimes I think about buying a early/mid-70's monster Pioneer Integrated.
it would be kind of cool to have an SA-9500 (II)... not necessarily to listen to, but definitely to look at.
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That’s more silver than a James Avery store
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I think I have a woody.Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
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I think I have a woody.
10-4.
... the best I can do here is this bad boy (bad girl?)...
DSC_6689_z by Mark Hardy, on Flickr -
mhardy6647 wrote: »joecoulson wrote: »What amp are you running them with?
In all seriousness see the first post. hk770
Love that era of HK stuff, we have a few different items from then (early 80s) The only bad thing, that champagne finish, is not super durable over time and shows dirt really easily. -
mhardy6647 wrote: »OK, the tone, transparency, imaging and stuff is pretty good with these -- but the squashed dynamics is killin' me.
Ergo
This morning, I prosecuted the nuclear option and hooked up the (such as it is) most powerful and (perhaps/arguably) best sounding high-power/soiled state hifi component in the house -- a Yamaha CR-2020.
All I can say at this point is that it works and seemed a bit crisper & livelier than the hk.
In total fairness, the hk was bought strictly as-is (and presumably utterly in unrestored condition); the Yamaha was purchased rehabbed -- and cost real money, believe it or not. Yes, Marky spent actual money on a (vintage) hifi component. It's a rare occurrence, but it does happen some times.Semi-monstrous 1970s soiled state receivers by Mark Hardy, on Flickr
It's the one on the right. Ca. 100 wpc
PS This is a scan of an actual photograph taken on actual film with an actual camera.
Interesting. The yamaha is 100 Watts/Channel, but honestly think the HK would put out more real world power.
Even rated at 70 watts/channel HK's were usually under-rated, and would often do, almost double the rated output, and worked great with even 4 ohm loads.
If anything the condition of the HK may be in question, as you say. -
mhardy6647 wrote: »OK, the tone, transparency, imaging and stuff is pretty good with these -- but the squashed dynamics is killin' me.
Ergo
This morning, I prosecuted the nuclear option and hooked up the (such as it is) most powerful and (perhaps/arguably) best sounding high-power/soiled state hifi component in the house -- a Yamaha CR-2020.
All I can say at this point is that it works and seemed a bit crisper & livelier than the hk.
In total fairness, the hk was bought strictly as-is (and presumably utterly in unrestored condition); the Yamaha was purchased rehabbed -- and cost real money, believe it or not. Yes, Marky spent actual money on a (vintage) hifi component. It's a rare occurrence, but it does happen some times.Semi-monstrous 1970s soiled state receivers by Mark Hardy, on Flickr
It's the one on the right. Ca. 100 wpc
PS This is a scan of an actual photograph taken on actual film with an actual camera.
Interesting. The yamaha is 100 Watts/Channel, but honestly think the HK would put out more real world power.
Even rated at 70 watts/channel HK's were usually under-rated, and would often do, almost double the rated output, and worked great with even 4 ohm loads.
If anything the condition of the HK may be in question, as you say.
I concur, which is why I started with the hk. Well, that and the fact it's lighter and was easier to disinter than the Yamaha.
The hk is strictly as found, though.
On the other hand, it was only $40... which is why it followed me home.
It seems to work fine, but it is also safe to assume it's in need of refreshment.
