Okey-dokey, (finally) the ELAC "DEBUT 2.0 B6.2" loudspeakers are, umm, speaking
mhardy6647
Posts: 33,908
in Speakers
I hope ELAC didn't pay someone to come up with the model name for these little loudspeakers.
Finally, I have managed to get upstairs and hook up my Christmas present to myself, half-price ELAC "Debut 2.0 B6.2" loudspeakers and, at the least, get them breaking in.
What the heck did you decide to use for an amplifier, Marky? I hear you ask.
Well, since I am lazy but recognize that these need some power for best results, I went with this.
DSC_9173 by Mark Hardy, on Flickr
(stock photo of the amp from a while back -- although I am using 16 gauge zip cord, at least for the moment
)
Something like 70 wpc, twin power supplies with toroidal PTs. It's also utterly unrestored (a $40 pickup at NEARC some years back). No idea how happy or otherwise these ol' hk amps are with a (nominal) '6 ohm' load, but I gotta start somewhere! This was the easiest, sort of powerful soiled solid state amp to get off of a shelf and press into service!
Further details as events warrant.
Note, I remain (in all seriousness) wide open to suggestions of a more appropriate amplifier (or - gasp! - receiver) to use to power these... pickins' are sorta slim here in terms of high-power amps, though, you know?
Finally, I have managed to get upstairs and hook up my Christmas present to myself, half-price ELAC "Debut 2.0 B6.2" loudspeakers and, at the least, get them breaking in.
What the heck did you decide to use for an amplifier, Marky? I hear you ask.
Well, since I am lazy but recognize that these need some power for best results, I went with this.
DSC_9173 by Mark Hardy, on Flickr(stock photo of the amp from a while back -- although I am using 16 gauge zip cord, at least for the moment
)Something like 70 wpc, twin power supplies with toroidal PTs. It's also utterly unrestored (a $40 pickup at NEARC some years back). No idea how happy or otherwise these ol' hk amps are with a (nominal) '6 ohm' load, but I gotta start somewhere! This was the easiest, sort of powerful soiled solid state amp to get off of a shelf and press into service!
Further details as events warrant.
Note, I remain (in all seriousness) wide open to suggestions of a more appropriate amplifier (or - gasp! - receiver) to use to power these... pickins' are sorta slim here in terms of high-power amps, though, you know?
Comments
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Pics of the speakers, man!
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Right!?
Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2 -
hey, I'm busy...
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Pics of the speakers, man!
You'd think, right. Wife must be back from Birding, and he's gottta play catch up now for slacking while she was gone.HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
yup, pretty much. Actually, she was just erranding -- but she's going down to the MA north shore tomorrow (despite a crummy weather forecast down there) to bird with some of her buddies (kickin' off the new year), so I have high hopes for tomorrow.
Roastin' a pork loin out on the grille for dinner as I type this...
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He talks about new speakers and he shows us a pic of an amp???? Talk about an absent-minded Professor!Marantz AV-7705 PrePro, Classé 5 channel 200wpc Amp, Oppo 103 BluRay, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Sony XBR-49X800E TV, Polk S60 Main Speakers, Polk ES30 Center Channel, Polk S15 Surround Speakers SVS SB12-NSD x2
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Everybody on the planet knows what the speakers look like
https://www.elac.com/product/b6-2/
The trick, for me, is to find an amp here that is appropriate to a speaker with 87 dB sensitivity (at 6 ohm nominal impedance). More to the point, one that can be easily pulled out of its resting place and hooked up The hk won -- cause it is small, (relatively) light and it was near the top of a stack!
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Say there Doc.... Is a certain arc welder disguised as an amp still floating around New England?
Have at it! -
Wow...that was helpful. Come on man, I'm thinking about these for my shop. Get after it!Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
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Well, I can say this so far -- they are very transparent in their presentation (I am trying so, so hard not to use the "s word"!).
They also are sounding kind of overly warm/thick to me and unexpectedly rolled off in the treble -- not at all modern sounding as I think of modern sounding loudspeakers.
They're like the polar opposite of the classic Infinity or JBL sound, if you get my gist.
I am hoping/guessing that the characteristics I am currently perceiving as negative** are a function of their not burned in state.
All this being said, for $150 a pair, they're pretty remarkable. The fit 'n' finish (regardless of what one thinks about their aesthetics) is good, too.
Oh, and you jaspers want a picture?! OK, here's one -- just remember: experimental hifi is not pretty.
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* "Soundstage" (well, at least it's not "sound signature" )
** How's that for weasel wording?
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Say there Doc.... Is a certain arc welder disguised as an amp still floating around New England?
Have at it!
Still in rehab
Its primary care physician is the same galoot who recommended these ELACs to me after hearing 'em at the big hifi show up in Montreal last spring
https://youtu.be/KUmZp8pR1uc -
What amp are you running them with?
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yeah, huh?
P2170002 by Mark Hardy, on Flickr
P2170005 by Mark Hardy, on Flickr
Note that all used equipment at our house is subjected to a CAT scan to ensure proper operational status.
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joecoulson wrote: »What amp are you running them with?
In all seriousness see the first post. hk770
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So - I don't know (yet) if it's the loudspeakers, their placement (which is decidedly noncanonical although Polk forum friendly -- see photo posted earlier), or my room -- but these ELACs are giving me what I least enjoy from bass reflex speakers; poorly damped, lumpy, thick, heavy, one-ish note bass. Plenty of it (too much), but unpleasantly thick in quality.
Fortunately, it is -- as mathematicians like to say -- straightforward to test whether the root cause is "nature" (the speakers) or "nurture" (placement/environment).
TBD...
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My apologies.
Didn’t read thoroughly through. I am a dumb mass sometimes.
Is the amp warm or neutral? I think the Elacs in general work well with neutral/warm amp vs cooler brighter ones. That’s the impression I get from the different models (and now the ones I own) I have heard. -
Can you get them to normal stand height, perhaps with a couple tall chairs or bar stools?
I found the B6.2 to sound a bit recessed and rolled-off in the highs, even more so on the original B6.
I liked the Polk S20 better, although I found them to be very bass-heavy, unless the backs of the cabinets were at least 18" from the wall.5.1 and 2.0 ch Basement Media Room: Outlaw 975/Emotiva DC-1/Rotel RB-1582 MKII/Rotel RB-1552/Audiosource Amp 3/Polk LS90, CS400i, FX500i/Outlaw X-12, LFM-1/JVD DLA-HD250/Da-Lite 100" HCCV/Sony ES BDP/Sonos Connect. DC-1/RB-1582 MKII/Sonos Connect also feed Polk 7C in garage or Dayton IO655 on patio.
2.1 ch Basement Gym: Denon AVR-2807/Klipsch Forte I or NHT SB2/JBL SUB 550P x 2/Chromecast Audio.
2.0 ch Living Room: Rotel RX-1052/Emotiva DC-1/Klipsch RF-7 III/Sony ES BDP/LG 65" LED.
2.0 ch Semi-portable: Klipsch Powergate/NHT SB3/Chromecast Audio.
Kitchen: Sonos Play5. -
Let me know if you decide to abandon them.....Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
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Lol. Steve to the rescue
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joecoulson wrote: »My apologies.
Didn’t read thoroughly through. I am a dumb mass sometimes.
Is the amp warm or neutral? I think the Elacs in general work well with neutral/warm amp vs cooler brighter ones. That’s the impression I get from the different models (and now the ones I own) I have heard.
All in jest! -
Can you get them to normal stand height, perhaps with a couple tall chairs or bar stools?
I found the B6.2 to sound a bit recessed and rolled-off in the highs, even more so on the original B6.
I liked the Polk S20 better, although I found them to be very bass-heavy, unless the backs of the cabinets were at least 18" from the wall.
Yeah, actually, that's the first remediation I will try. Actually probably gonna put them on a pair of KLH 6s I got busy with some home improvements at the daughter & son-in-law's this afternoon.
Definitely recessed HF compared to what I am used to
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Let me know if you decide to abandon them.....
I haven't ever abandoned much -- heck I am still trying to convince myself to try the PE B652-AIRs again
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joecoulson wrote: »My apologies.
Didn’t read thoroughly through. I am a dumb mass sometimes.
Is the amp warm or neutral? I think the Elacs in general work well with neutral/warm amp vs cooler brighter ones. That’s the impression I get from the different models (and now the ones I own) I have heard.
I thought you were yankin' my chain 'cause I started (as Cathy pointed out) a thread on speakers with a photo of an amp.
My sense of the hk770 isn't very warm. I'd call it neutral, myself.
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So I haven’t heard these bookies, but given the number of rave reviews I would think what you’re hearing isn’t typical, as they seem to be designed to appeal to the masses.
Perhaps a more standard placement at ear level and not tilted back would be a better position so start an assessment.
I recall with my old monitor 10Bs using the stands to tilt them back or adjust the timing definitely tamed those notoriously bright tweeters, in my space and/or experience anyway.
Similarly to what your describing, the Wharfedale Diamond 10.1, (modern loudspeaker w/ rave reviews) I purchased a couple years ago also seemed to have an aggressive top end roll off, albeit beautifully clear and balanced otherwise, and I wasn’t able to improve the treble it by placement alone.
I’m curious to see how these work out after they’ve burned in and you’ve experimented with them some more.Oh, Listen here mister. We got no way of understandin' this world. But we got as much sense of this bird flyin in the sky. Now there is a lot that bird don't know, but it don't change the fact that the world is happening to him all the same. What I am tryin to say is, is that the course of your life, well its changing, and you don't even see it- Forest Bondurant -
me, too
The placement was (is) definitely suspect, but it was easy to implement
... and I am nothing if not supremely lazy.
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I'll be the hi-fi heretic here and readily admit that the most enjoyable speakers I have owned in the last 46 years were rolled off in the upper treble.
Note, I said "most enjoyable" not most accurate.Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2 -
The treble rolloff is OK with me; the bloat isn't -- I am hopeful (optimistic) that the latter will be corrected with more appropriate placement.
True confession -- after running them for a couple-three hours, I actually read the effing manual (RTFM) to see if ELAC or Mr. Jones had any pointers about positioning. Well, they did, in terms of the ol' equilateral triangle thing -- but nothin' about up/down -- although, to its credit, the instruction sheet did gently suggest consideration of toeing in* if the two front speakers were "far apart".
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* Nothin' about camber or caster, though
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This new version was "suppose" to address the mid bass bloat.Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
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This new version was "suppose" to address the mid bass bloat.
Perhaps it has -- I haven't heard the original morph.
