Okey-dokey, (finally) the ELAC "DEBUT 2.0 B6.2" loudspeakers are, umm, speaking

mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 19,951
I hope ELAC didn't pay someone to come up with the model name for these little loudspeakers.

Finally, I have managed to get upstairs and hook up my Christmas present to myself, half-price ELAC "Debut 2.0 B6.2" loudspeakers and, at the least, get them breaking in.


What the heck did you decide to use for an amplifier, Marky? I hear you ask. :)

Well, since I am lazy but recognize that these need some power for best results, I went with this.

14035850202_6bc0d2cca5_h.jpgDSC_9173 by Mark Hardy, on Flickr

(stock photo of the amp from a while back -- although I am using 16 gauge zip cord, at least for the moment :p )

Something like 70 wpc, twin power supplies with toroidal PTs. It's also utterly unrestored (a $40 pickup at NEARC some years back). No idea how happy or otherwise these ol' hk amps are with a (nominal) '6 ohm' load, but I gotta start somewhere! This was the easiest, sort of powerful soiled solid state amp to get off of a shelf and press into service!

Further details as events warrant.

Note, I remain (in all seriousness) wide open to suggestions of a more appropriate amplifier (or - gasp! - receiver) to use to power these... pickins' are sorta slim here in terms of high-power amps, though, you know?
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Comments

  • DaveHoDaveHo Posts: 2,056
    Pics of the speakers, man!
  • steveinazsteveinaz Posts: 18,494
    Right!?
    Transport: Oppo BDP-103/USB HDD | Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2L | Power Amp: Parasound Halo A21 | Speakers: PSB Imagine T2 | Cables: Kimber Hero XLR; Kimber 8VS Bi-Wire; Belden 1694A Dig Coax | AC Power: Panamax M5300-PM
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 19,951
    edited January 4
    hey, I'm busy...

    :)
  • tonybtonyb Posts: 30,384
    DaveHo wrote: »
    Pics of the speakers, man!

    You'd think, right. Wife must be back from Birding, and he's gottta play catch up now for slacking while she was gone.
    HT SYSTEM-2 channel
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Dynaudio Audience 72
    Polk FX500 surrounds
    Cary xciter dac
    Cullen modded Sonos
    Joule la-100 pre
    B&k Ref 4420 amp

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Analysis plus crystal oval ic's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    B&k 1430
    Tad 803 speakers
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 19,951
    edited January 4
    yup, pretty much. Actually, she was just erranding -- but she's going down to the MA north shore tomorrow (despite a crummy weather forecast down there) to bird with some of her buddies (kickin' off the new year), so I have high hopes for tomorrow.

    Roastin' a pork loin out on the grille for dinner as I type this...

  • lightman1lightman1 Posts: 10,003
    Say there Doc.... Is a certain arc welder disguised as an amp still floating around New England?
    Have at it!
  • steveinazsteveinaz Posts: 18,494
    edited January 4
    Wow...that was helpful. Come on man, I'm thinking about these for my shop. Get after it!
    Transport: Oppo BDP-103/USB HDD | Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2L | Power Amp: Parasound Halo A21 | Speakers: PSB Imagine T2 | Cables: Kimber Hero XLR; Kimber 8VS Bi-Wire; Belden 1694A Dig Coax | AC Power: Panamax M5300-PM
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 19,951
    edited January 5
    Well, I can say this so far -- they are very transparent in their presentation (I am trying so, so hard not to use the "s word"!).

    They also are sounding kind of overly warm/thick to me and unexpectedly rolled off in the treble -- not at all modern sounding as I think of modern sounding loudspeakers.

    They're like the polar opposite of the classic Infinity or JBL sound, if you get my gist.

    I am hoping/guessing that the characteristics I am currently perceiving as negative** are a function of their not burned in state. :|

    All this being said, for $150 a pair, they're pretty remarkable. The fit 'n' finish (regardless of what one thinks about their aesthetics) is good, too.

    Oh, and you jaspers want a picture?! OK, here's one -- just remember: experimental hifi is not pretty.


    fa6qx0h4lq83.jpg



    ________________
    * "Soundstage" (well, at least it's not "sound signature" :p )
    ** How's that for weasel wording? :blush:

  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 19,951
    lightman1 wrote: »
    Say there Doc.... Is a certain arc welder disguised as an amp still floating around New England?
    Have at it!

    Still in rehab :|
    Its primary care physician is the same galoot who recommended these ELACs to me after hearing 'em at the big hifi show up in Montreal last spring :p

  • joecoulsonjoecoulson Posts: 1,433
    What amp are you running them with?
    2ch: PS Audio Stellar Gain pre, 4 x Linn LK240 monoblocks ( bi-amping) Elac Adante AF-61's, SVS SB16 Ultra Subwoofer, Cambridge Audio CXN v2, Rega Planar 2 with upgrades, Vincent PHO 701 Phono pre, Audioquest Niagara 1000, AQ Thunder, AQ XLR's and IC's, Wireworld Stratus and Aurora power cables, Atlas EOS power cable, Denon 2910 (as transport) Sony CPD355 Jukebox cd

    5.1: Marantz sr5003 (feeding mains through HT bypass) Sonus Faber solo center, AQ Carbon HDMI's, Sony XBRx900E, Xbox One S as 4k player, Definitive Technology SM350's surrounds, Tivo Bolt, Harmony Elite remote

    Other gear: Totem Rainmakers (not hooked up) Sonos play 5 and play 1's x 2, Audio Technica TT and Edifier active speakers in kids room, JVC XM448 minidisc rack mount, Sony minidisc walkman, Project Debut III (currently not working), Samsung 46, and 2 x32" tvs, Samsung Soundbar, Okki Nokki LP cleaner, Second Harmony remote setup for bedroom, etc etc
  • DaveHoDaveHo Posts: 2,056
    edited January 5
    joecoulson wrote: »
    What amp are you running them with?

    iw5w24o3vql9.jpg

    :p
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 19,951
    DaveHo wrote: »
    joecoulson wrote: »
    What amp are you running them with?

    iw5w24o3vql9.jpg

    :p

    yeah, huh?

    11385036933_0cb271dca7_b.jpgP2170002 by Mark Hardy, on Flickr

    11384894815_286366313c_b.jpgP2170005 by Mark Hardy, on Flickr

    Note that all used equipment at our house is subjected to a CAT scan to ensure proper operational status.
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 19,951
    joecoulson wrote: »
    What amp are you running them with?

    In all seriousness :p see the first post. hk770
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 19,951
    So - I don't know (yet) if it's the loudspeakers, their placement (which is decidedly noncanonical although Polk forum friendly -- see photo posted earlier), or my room -- but these ELACs are giving me what I least enjoy from bass reflex speakers; poorly damped, lumpy, thick, heavy, one-ish note bass. Plenty of it (too much), but unpleasantly thick in quality.

    Fortunately, it is -- as mathematicians like to say -- straightforward to test whether the root cause is "nature" (the speakers) or "nurture" (placement/environment).

    TBD...
  • joecoulsonjoecoulson Posts: 1,433
    My apologies.
    Didn’t read thoroughly through. I am a dumb mass sometimes.
    Is the amp warm or neutral? I think the Elacs in general work well with neutral/warm amp vs cooler brighter ones. That’s the impression I get from the different models (and now the ones I own) I have heard.
    2ch: PS Audio Stellar Gain pre, 4 x Linn LK240 monoblocks ( bi-amping) Elac Adante AF-61's, SVS SB16 Ultra Subwoofer, Cambridge Audio CXN v2, Rega Planar 2 with upgrades, Vincent PHO 701 Phono pre, Audioquest Niagara 1000, AQ Thunder, AQ XLR's and IC's, Wireworld Stratus and Aurora power cables, Atlas EOS power cable, Denon 2910 (as transport) Sony CPD355 Jukebox cd

    5.1: Marantz sr5003 (feeding mains through HT bypass) Sonus Faber solo center, AQ Carbon HDMI's, Sony XBRx900E, Xbox One S as 4k player, Definitive Technology SM350's surrounds, Tivo Bolt, Harmony Elite remote

    Other gear: Totem Rainmakers (not hooked up) Sonos play 5 and play 1's x 2, Audio Technica TT and Edifier active speakers in kids room, JVC XM448 minidisc rack mount, Sony minidisc walkman, Project Debut III (currently not working), Samsung 46, and 2 x32" tvs, Samsung Soundbar, Okki Nokki LP cleaner, Second Harmony remote setup for bedroom, etc etc
  • adam2434adam2434 Posts: 973
    Can you get them to normal stand height, perhaps with a couple tall chairs or bar stools?

    I found the B6.2 to sound a bit recessed and rolled-off in the highs, even more so on the original B6.

    I liked the Polk S20 better, although I found them to be very bass-heavy, unless the backs of the cabinets were at least 18" from the wall.
    5.1 and 2.0 ch Basement Media Room: Outlaw 975/Emotiva DC-1/Rotel RB-1582 MKII/Rotel RB-1552/Audiosource Amp 3/Polk LS90, CS400i, FX500i/Outlaw X-12, LFM-1/JVD DLA-HD250/Da-Lite 100" HCCV/Sony ES BDP/Sonos Connect. DC-1/RB-1582 MKII/Sonos Connect also feed Polk 7C in garage or Dayton IO655 on patio.
    2.1 ch Basement Gym: Denon AVR-2807/Klipsch Forte I or NHT SB2/JBL SUB 550P x 2/Chromecast Audio.
    2.0 ch Living Room: Rotel RX-1052/Emotiva DC-1/Klipsch RF-7 III/Sony ES BDP/LG 65" LED.
    2.0 ch Semi-portable: Klipsch Powergate/NHT SB3/Chromecast Audio.
    Kitchen: Sonos Play5.
  • steveinazsteveinaz Posts: 18,494
    Let me know if you decide to abandon them.....
    Transport: Oppo BDP-103/USB HDD | Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2L | Power Amp: Parasound Halo A21 | Speakers: PSB Imagine T2 | Cables: Kimber Hero XLR; Kimber 8VS Bi-Wire; Belden 1694A Dig Coax | AC Power: Panamax M5300-PM
  • joecoulsonjoecoulson Posts: 1,433
    Lol. Steve to the rescue
    2ch: PS Audio Stellar Gain pre, 4 x Linn LK240 monoblocks ( bi-amping) Elac Adante AF-61's, SVS SB16 Ultra Subwoofer, Cambridge Audio CXN v2, Rega Planar 2 with upgrades, Vincent PHO 701 Phono pre, Audioquest Niagara 1000, AQ Thunder, AQ XLR's and IC's, Wireworld Stratus and Aurora power cables, Atlas EOS power cable, Denon 2910 (as transport) Sony CPD355 Jukebox cd

    5.1: Marantz sr5003 (feeding mains through HT bypass) Sonus Faber solo center, AQ Carbon HDMI's, Sony XBRx900E, Xbox One S as 4k player, Definitive Technology SM350's surrounds, Tivo Bolt, Harmony Elite remote

    Other gear: Totem Rainmakers (not hooked up) Sonos play 5 and play 1's x 2, Audio Technica TT and Edifier active speakers in kids room, JVC XM448 minidisc rack mount, Sony minidisc walkman, Project Debut III (currently not working), Samsung 46, and 2 x32" tvs, Samsung Soundbar, Okki Nokki LP cleaner, Second Harmony remote setup for bedroom, etc etc
  • DaveHoDaveHo Posts: 2,056
    joecoulson wrote: »
    My apologies.
    Didn’t read thoroughly through. I am a dumb mass sometimes.
    Is the amp warm or neutral? I think the Elacs in general work well with neutral/warm amp vs cooler brighter ones. That’s the impression I get from the different models (and now the ones I own) I have heard.

    All in jest!
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 19,951
    adam2434 wrote: »
    Can you get them to normal stand height, perhaps with a couple tall chairs or bar stools?

    I found the B6.2 to sound a bit recessed and rolled-off in the highs, even more so on the original B6.

    I liked the Polk S20 better, although I found them to be very bass-heavy, unless the backs of the cabinets were at least 18" from the wall.

    Yeah, actually, that's the first remediation I will try. Actually probably gonna put them on a pair of KLH 6s :) I got busy with some home improvements at the daughter & son-in-law's this afternoon.

    Definitely recessed HF compared to what I am used to :p
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 19,951
    steveinaz wrote: »
    Let me know if you decide to abandon them.....

    I haven't ever abandoned much -- heck I am still trying to convince myself to try the PE B652-AIRs again :p

  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 19,951
    joecoulson wrote: »
    My apologies.
    Didn’t read thoroughly through. I am a dumb mass sometimes.
    Is the amp warm or neutral? I think the Elacs in general work well with neutral/warm amp vs cooler brighter ones. That’s the impression I get from the different models (and now the ones I own) I have heard.

    I thought you were yankin' my chain 'cause I started (as Cathy pointed out) a thread on speakers with a photo of an amp. :p

    My sense of the hk770 isn't very warm. I'd call it neutral, myself.
  • jeremymarcinkojeremymarcinko Posts: 3,295
    edited January 6
    So I haven’t heard these bookies, but given the number of rave reviews I would think what you’re hearing isn’t typical, as they seem to be designed to appeal to the masses.

    Perhaps a more standard placement at ear level and not tilted back would be a better position so start an assessment.

    I recall with my old monitor 10Bs using the stands to tilt them back or adjust the timing definitely tamed those notoriously bright tweeters, in my space and/or experience anyway.

    Similarly to what your describing, the Wharfedale Diamond 10.1, (modern loudspeaker w/ rave reviews) I purchased a couple years ago also seemed to have an aggressive top end roll off, albeit beautifully clear and balanced otherwise, and I wasn’t able to improve the treble it by placement alone.

    I’m curious to see how these work out after they’ve burned in and you’ve experimented with them some more.
    Oh, Listen here mister. We got no way of understandin' this world. But we got as much sense of this bird flyin in the sky. Now there is a lot that bird don't know, but it don't change the fact that the world is happening to him all the same. What I am tryin to say is, is that the course of your life, well its changing, and you don't even see it- Forest Bondurant
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 19,951
    me, too :)

    The placement was (is) definitely suspect, but it was easy to implement :)
    ... and I am nothing if not supremely lazy.
  • steveinazsteveinaz Posts: 18,494
    I'll be the hi-fi heretic here and readily admit that the most enjoyable speakers I have owned in the last 46 years were rolled off in the upper treble.

    Note, I said "most enjoyable" not most accurate.
    Transport: Oppo BDP-103/USB HDD | Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2L | Power Amp: Parasound Halo A21 | Speakers: PSB Imagine T2 | Cables: Kimber Hero XLR; Kimber 8VS Bi-Wire; Belden 1694A Dig Coax | AC Power: Panamax M5300-PM
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 19,951
    The treble rolloff is OK with me; the bloat isn't -- I am hopeful (optimistic) that the latter will be corrected with more appropriate placement.

    True confession -- after running them for a couple-three hours, I actually read the effing manual (RTFM) to see if ELAC or Mr. Jones had any pointers about positioning. Well, they did, in terms of the ol' equilateral triangle thing -- but nothin' about up/down -- although, to its credit, the instruction sheet did gently suggest consideration of toeing in* if the two front speakers were "far apart".

    ___________________
    * Nothin' about camber or caster, though ;)
  • steveinazsteveinaz Posts: 18,494
    This new version was "suppose" to address the mid bass bloat.
    Transport: Oppo BDP-103/USB HDD | Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2L | Power Amp: Parasound Halo A21 | Speakers: PSB Imagine T2 | Cables: Kimber Hero XLR; Kimber 8VS Bi-Wire; Belden 1694A Dig Coax | AC Power: Panamax M5300-PM
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 19,951
    steveinaz wrote: »
    This new version was "suppose" to address the mid bass bloat.

    Perhaps it has -- I haven't heard the original morph. :|
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