Disc versus Computer

I bought a new CD the other day.
Usually I rip them and add them to my collection located on a microSD memory of my Quantum Byte computer. But this time I played them first on my Marantz SA8005. Then I ripped them and played them through the Marantz USB from the Quantum Byte. The computer is just not as good. There is loss of air around the instruments/voices and the bass is not as tight as the Marantz.
I double checked other albums and got similar results.
So, same DAC but different source plus the usb cable and the usb interface.
The Quantum Byte is fanless and SS with an excellent linear PS. Running Win10 with Jriver21. The cable is a WireWorld Starlight.
I wonder why there is such a difference?
Usually I rip them and add them to my collection located on a microSD memory of my Quantum Byte computer. But this time I played them first on my Marantz SA8005. Then I ripped them and played them through the Marantz USB from the Quantum Byte. The computer is just not as good. There is loss of air around the instruments/voices and the bass is not as tight as the Marantz.
I double checked other albums and got similar results.
So, same DAC but different source plus the usb cable and the usb interface.
The Quantum Byte is fanless and SS with an excellent linear PS. Running Win10 with Jriver21. The cable is a WireWorld Starlight.
I wonder why there is such a difference?
Mojo Audio Illuminati v3>>Quantum Byte w/LMS>>Rpi/PiCoreplayer>> Starlight 7 USB >> Mojo Audio Mystique v2 SE>>ModWright SWL 9.0 SE Signature>>Hafler DH-500 Amp+ (Musical Concepts Fully Modded)>>
SRS 2.3TL (Fully Modded)...Velodyne Optimum 8 subwoofer
1KVA Dreadnought
Marantz SA 8005
Pioneer PLX-1000 Turntable - Shure SC35C/N35X - V15III/VN35HE
Yamaha TX-540 Tuner...Sony BDP-S570
Sony PS4
Separate subpanel with four dedicated 20 amp circuits.
1. Amplification 2. Analog 3. Digital 4. Video
"All THAT IS LOST FROM THE SOURCE IS LOST FOREVER"
SRS 2.3TL (Fully Modded)...Velodyne Optimum 8 subwoofer
1KVA Dreadnought
Marantz SA 8005
Pioneer PLX-1000 Turntable - Shure SC35C/N35X - V15III/VN35HE
Yamaha TX-540 Tuner...Sony BDP-S570
Sony PS4
Separate subpanel with four dedicated 20 amp circuits.
1. Amplification 2. Analog 3. Digital 4. Video
"All THAT IS LOST FROM THE SOURCE IS LOST FOREVER"
Comments
It hurts my feelings!
SRS 2.3TL (Fully Modded)...Velodyne Optimum 8 subwoofer
1KVA Dreadnought
Marantz SA 8005
Pioneer PLX-1000 Turntable - Shure SC35C/N35X - V15III/VN35HE
Yamaha TX-540 Tuner...Sony BDP-S570
Sony PS4
Separate subpanel with four dedicated 20 amp circuits.
1. Amplification 2. Analog 3. Digital 4. Video
"All THAT IS LOST FROM THE SOURCE IS LOST FOREVER"
I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine.” .
“If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.”
I would like a better DAC but my beef is with the same DAC there is a difference.
Let's say I get a better DAC and use the Marantz as a transport versus Skips recommended Aries Mini.
Which one wins?
SRS 2.3TL (Fully Modded)...Velodyne Optimum 8 subwoofer
1KVA Dreadnought
Marantz SA 8005
Pioneer PLX-1000 Turntable - Shure SC35C/N35X - V15III/VN35HE
Yamaha TX-540 Tuner...Sony BDP-S570
Sony PS4
Separate subpanel with four dedicated 20 amp circuits.
1. Amplification 2. Analog 3. Digital 4. Video
"All THAT IS LOST FROM THE SOURCE IS LOST FOREVER"
If it were then which one is better?
SRS 2.3TL (Fully Modded)...Velodyne Optimum 8 subwoofer
1KVA Dreadnought
Marantz SA 8005
Pioneer PLX-1000 Turntable - Shure SC35C/N35X - V15III/VN35HE
Yamaha TX-540 Tuner...Sony BDP-S570
Sony PS4
Separate subpanel with four dedicated 20 amp circuits.
1. Amplification 2. Analog 3. Digital 4. Video
"All THAT IS LOST FROM THE SOURCE IS LOST FOREVER"
Wave with secure rip in Jriver
SRS 2.3TL (Fully Modded)...Velodyne Optimum 8 subwoofer
1KVA Dreadnought
Marantz SA 8005
Pioneer PLX-1000 Turntable - Shure SC35C/N35X - V15III/VN35HE
Yamaha TX-540 Tuner...Sony BDP-S570
Sony PS4
Separate subpanel with four dedicated 20 amp circuits.
1. Amplification 2. Analog 3. Digital 4. Video
"All THAT IS LOST FROM THE SOURCE IS LOST FOREVER"
SRS 2.3TL (Fully Modded)...Velodyne Optimum 8 subwoofer
1KVA Dreadnought
Marantz SA 8005
Pioneer PLX-1000 Turntable - Shure SC35C/N35X - V15III/VN35HE
Yamaha TX-540 Tuner...Sony BDP-S570
Sony PS4
Separate subpanel with four dedicated 20 amp circuits.
1. Amplification 2. Analog 3. Digital 4. Video
"All THAT IS LOST FROM THE SOURCE IS LOST FOREVER"
I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine.” .
“If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.”
BINGO!!!
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk
Look for a DAC that installs a dedicated driver on your PC. There are also products that help remove usb generated noise.
Windows 10 is your reason. Get a linux setup that can do true bit-perfect playback with asysnchronous USB. Then you may hear the opposite effect>Better with USB than by disc. Something like Daphile would be easy to setup and should give you the best possible playback from that little PC.
Sony SS-M9; LSA Statement Amplifier; VPI HW-19 Mk3/Sumiko Premier FT-4/Audio Technica AT15SA; Pass Labs DIY Pearl Phono; Sony SCD-C333ES SACD Changer; TEAC UD-301 DAC; Dell/WYSE 5010 (running Daphile); Sony ST-SA5ES Tuner; Nanotec Golden Strada speaker cables (SR+#79 Shotgun); Audioquest Coral interconnects
Yep, no reason to spend 1000s on a PC for music playback. However, there is nothing inherently wrong with a PC as long as it is simple, has no moving parts, and has the correct software/OS running. I have found a sub-$50 thin client (something with a small SSD, and no fan) running Daphile can perform on par with something like an Aries Mini or other dedicated streaming device.
Sony SS-M9; LSA Statement Amplifier; VPI HW-19 Mk3/Sumiko Premier FT-4/Audio Technica AT15SA; Pass Labs DIY Pearl Phono; Sony SCD-C333ES SACD Changer; TEAC UD-301 DAC; Dell/WYSE 5010 (running Daphile); Sony ST-SA5ES Tuner; Nanotec Golden Strada speaker cables (SR+#79 Shotgun); Audioquest Coral interconnects
Electrical noise and mechanical noise.
A well designed audio component has a low noise...and noise filtering...power supply.
Thought is given to the electrical noise characteristics of the components that are selected, and the position of those components in relation to each other. If an audio component has a fan, some thought is given to selecting a fan that has very low electrical and mechanical noise.
General purpose computers are not designed for high fidelity, low noise music reproduction.
"Polk SDA-SRSs are hopelessly out of date both sonically and technologically... I see no value whatsoever in older SDA speakers."~Audio Asylum Member
"Knowledge, without understanding, is a path to failure."~DK
"Those who irrationally rail against something or someone that is no threat to them, actually desire (or desire to be like) the thing or person they are railing against."~DK
As far as components and layout, there are higher end components available when putting together a DIY gaming/audio PC. Certain power supplies for example use Japanese capacitors and other electronics, and boast a 10 year warranty.
So, there are certain build considerations that you can keep in mind, as well as case layout/component proximity. But, you can't custom manufacture a bespoke motherboard with the sole purpose of audio reproduction like AURALiC has with their G1 and G2 products. Take a look at the internals of them, they're gorgeous!
Sorry that is the case. My PC setup with an asynchronous USB DAC sounds “great” not “decent.” So...pffft.
Mechanical noise aside, as long bit perfect data arrives at the DAC and the DAC can process the bit perfect data then the source supplying the bit perfect data is irrelevant.
Skip, in your case you went from a dedicated pc supplying data to your DAC to an all in one solution which also used a different DAC, no?
Any difference you heard was likely some additional processing taking place, as you noted in the PC, or the streamer is manipulating the file via a dsp of sorts. A dsp that boosts the dB just a decibel or two can be perceived as greater sound quality.
Truth is you don’t know what the streamer is doing. You just know you prefer it to the PC you had.
The blanket statement pc based transports are inferior to streamers, specifically the ones in your product catalog, is misguided, based on a single example with too many variables and not enough facts.
Come on man keep it real.
I've never personally compared a streamer to a PC head to head to see if I could hear a difference playing back the same source over WiFI, but is it really that hard to accept that there would be one?
The AURALiC G1 is just another type of transport. Based on the type of product it is, and who they are marketing it to, it would be foolish for them to build in a DSP that artificially alters the sound. If they did have some DSP/EQing options built in, surely they can be disabled in the software by the user. Accuracy is the name of the game, so why would AURALiC want to do something that takes away from that?
This I can almost agree with, but clarifying the noise isn’t transferred with the digital file, but from the physical connection from the pc. However IF there is any noise present it would only be a slight static hiss that couldn’t be heard unless your ears were right next to the tweets. So the effect described in your post overstates the issue as this can’t be heard during playback and shouldn’t make the distinction from decent sound to great sound.
Also this type of noise is noticed with many other sources an individual may be using, so it isn’t specific to the pc. As you stated WiFi eliminates this physical connection so yes streamers can have that advantage. But I will tell you my dedicated laptop has no such issues transferring static over the USB and it’s a straight off the shelf upper tier VAIO from 5 years ago. My tweets are dead silent between tracks.
Streamers can come in all levels and it’s possible some of them also may generate some level of static noise on their own. They are computers too after all. So for me it’s the execution of either product that is going make the difference between decent and great because they are in fact only delivering a bit perfect identical file to the asynchronous USB DAC; and again not to be confused with a CD Transport sending 2ch lpcm over a coax to a DAC.
Yes, but what OS/software were you using? Also, did you have a big noise switching mode power supply inside the case? If so, that can be a difference. The thin clients have simple 19V external power supply like a laptop. Unless you were using a dedicated music playback OS/software like Daphile, you can't really compare.
Some other's have pointed out that Windows can be configured to do bit-perfect playback. This may be true, but Windows has far too many other things going on in the background to ever get the best playback. Its not just about bit-perfect, but also having a minimal OS that focuses on music playback.
Sony SS-M9; LSA Statement Amplifier; VPI HW-19 Mk3/Sumiko Premier FT-4/Audio Technica AT15SA; Pass Labs DIY Pearl Phono; Sony SCD-C333ES SACD Changer; TEAC UD-301 DAC; Dell/WYSE 5010 (running Daphile); Sony ST-SA5ES Tuner; Nanotec Golden Strada speaker cables (SR+#79 Shotgun); Audioquest Coral interconnects
@F1nut @DSkip @pitdogg2 @tonyb - did I just describe that correctly?
Bingo! It's called the noise floor.
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk
SOtM also made hard drive power filters. Sonore installed high quality power supplies for their fanless mini-PC's. Aluminum hard drive enclosures acted as heat sinks and were isolated with Sorbothane dots to prevent mechanical noise. All to provide the cleanest, lowest noise signal to the DAC.
The issue with the Signature Sonore with Deux Power Supplies music server, the price. Now with the stripped versions, expense is less without sacrificing performance.
These components, implemented properly with quality power supplies, made a huge improvement over standard PC's used as music servers.
Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ & Pro 11+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS* Twisted Pear Buffalo III Dual Mono ESS Sabre32 DAC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *
FYI:
I am using Fidelizer to shut down unnecessary processes unrelated to audio and I have an iFiPurifier2 on the usb input to the Marantz.
I checked my Jriver settings last night.
Audio Device
-Audio Device=Marantz ASIO Device
-Volume=automatically select (I don't know why this was the setting)
-Buffer=50ms
-large hardware buffer=yes
-buffer size=3840 samples
DSP
-output format
--output encoding=none
--sample rate=no change except 176,400 for over 384,000 (for dsd)
-channels=2
-mixing=no up or down
play files from memory=yes
bitstream=yes (dsd)
-option
--bitstream format=dsd
use gapless for sequential album track=yes
I changed two settings.
-Volume=Marantz usb audio
-sample rate=176,400 for all
While playing the Marantz confirms either dsd or 176,400.
I did not A-B between the disc and the computer because things were sounding sweet and I was really enjoying the session! Also, previously I usually have several stutters during a session and last night there were none.
SRS 2.3TL (Fully Modded)...Velodyne Optimum 8 subwoofer
1KVA Dreadnought
Marantz SA 8005
Pioneer PLX-1000 Turntable - Shure SC35C/N35X - V15III/VN35HE
Yamaha TX-540 Tuner...Sony BDP-S570
Sony PS4
Separate subpanel with four dedicated 20 amp circuits.
1. Amplification 2. Analog 3. Digital 4. Video
"All THAT IS LOST FROM THE SOURCE IS LOST FOREVER"
A free way to try it: Make an Acronis (or similar full disc image software) backup of your main disk. Wipe it and load Daphile. Try it out, be amazed. If not, restore your image and point out that I was terribly wrong. I can handle it if I am.
Sony SS-M9; LSA Statement Amplifier; VPI HW-19 Mk3/Sumiko Premier FT-4/Audio Technica AT15SA; Pass Labs DIY Pearl Phono; Sony SCD-C333ES SACD Changer; TEAC UD-301 DAC; Dell/WYSE 5010 (running Daphile); Sony ST-SA5ES Tuner; Nanotec Golden Strada speaker cables (SR+#79 Shotgun); Audioquest Coral interconnects
Ethernet Filter: GigaFOILv4 with Keces P3 LPS
Source: Roon via ethernet to DAC interface
DAC: Bricasti M1SE
Pre/Pro: Marantz AV8805
Tube Preamp Buffer: Tortuga TPB.V1
Amp1: Nord One NC1200DM Signature, Amp2: W4S MC-5, AMP3: W4S MMC-7
Front: Salk SoundScape 8's, Center: Salk SoundScape C7
Surround: Polk FXIA6, Surround Back: Polk RTIA9, Atmos: Polk 70-RT
Subs: 2 - Rythmik F25's
IC & Speaker Cables: Acoustic Zen, Wireworld, Signal Cable
Power Cables: Acoustic Zen, Wireworld, PS Audio
Room Treatments: GIK Acoustics