Disc versus Computer

2

Comments

  • billbillwbillbillw Posts: 5,792
    edited August 9
    DSkip wrote: »
    Sorry but not the case. My computer also had no moving parts outside of the optical drive.

    Yes, but what OS/software were you using? Also, did you have a big noise switching mode power supply inside the case? If so, that can be a difference. The thin clients have simple 19V external power supply like a laptop. Unless you were using a dedicated music playback OS/software like Daphile, you can't really compare.

    Some other's have pointed out that Windows can be configured to do bit-perfect playback. This may be true, but Windows has far too many other things going on in the background to ever get the best playback. Its not just about bit-perfect, but also having a minimal OS that focuses on music playback.
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  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 4,959
    I'm pretty sure that the type of noise we are discussing here isn't the type that manifests itself into a "static hiss". It's not something that is audible during regular listening, but once it's removed, then you have the realization that it's no longer there.

    @F1nut @DSkip @pitdogg2 @tonyb - did I just describe that correctly?
    This I can almost agree with, but clarifying the noise isn’t transferred with the digital file, but from the physical connection from the pc. However IF there is any noise present it would only be a slight static hiss that couldn’t be heard unless your ears were right next to the tweets. So the effect described in your post overstates the issue as this can’t be heard during playback and shouldn’t make the distinction from decent sound to great sound.
    Also this type of noise is noticed with many other sources an individual may be using, so it isn’t specific to the pc. As you stated WiFi eliminates this physical connection so yes streamers can have that advantage. But I will tell you my dedicated laptop has no such issues transferring static over the USB and it’s a straight off the shelf upper tier VAIO from 5 years ago. My tweets are dead silent between tracks.

  • DSkipDSkip Posts: 15,131
    I hate the term 'noise'. It leads to a misunderstanding due to the connotation of the word. In this case, the noise is not something you hear as clipdat alluded to above. I had no idea how much noise was being introduced to my signal until I removed the component. For those interested in software, it was a Windows based system running jRiver with some other tools to help improve performance that I can't remember the name of. I did use a wall wart and intended to upgrade it to a linear PSU at some point, but the Aries Mini also had a wall wart and the difference was so dramatic that I didn't want to invest any further into the computer. I tried the Mini with a Linear PSU and it improved. Then the Aries improved the sound more. However, in a client's system, he was unable to hear a difference between the Mini and Aries. We actually plan to revisit this now that he has made upgrades in other areas of his system.

    The 'noise' can be from the physical or electrical realm. While having a computer passively cooled and no moving parts will cut down on the physical noise dramatically, the components inside are not isolated well and the design is not optimized for audio playback. In these cases, components are chosen not for outright performance (like a computer) but by other parameters that will reduce electric noise. The best way I can describe this is everything is fuzzy/hazy. The funny thing is you may never realize how fuzzy something is until it is improved.

    You can make the argument that I only have experience with AURALiC. However, Raife has experience with Bryston and had similar experiences. In fact, OUR experiences mirror so many out there that I feel I don't need to go and listen to every streamer to determine whether or not my statement is valid. I will give you that something like the Sonos or HEOS Link that I use may not fit the mold as I question their design for true sound quality vs. just playing music, but streamers designed specifically for hifi playback definitely optimize performance over simply playing the music.

    As I've also said, some systems may not showcase the difference due to a bottleneck elsewhere (even a USB cable). In the case of the streamer being nothing but a computer, I agreed with you and that's why I invested so heavily in a custom computer built from hand chosen parts and software. My opinion on that matter changed drastically when I realized it was more than just a computer, but a transport. In all cases, these digital devices are in the end just computers anyways. They are processing signals and sending them down the line. A CD player is in essence a specifically designed computer. My point is to illustrate that while a computer and a streamer can do the same job at the same level on the surface, the performance does not.

    Also, I don't consider recording with my playback. I'm not a recording engineer and I won't begin to tell you the best way to record because I'm ignorant on the topic. I DO know playback though. Modern computers are not designed with as much regard to electrical noise because its not important for the purposes they were designed. When it comes to music playback, it IS an important factor and something the companies take into account when designing a streamer.
    audiothesis.com/

    Speakers: Harbeth: 30.2, SHL5+; Usher: Be-10, T-515; Rosso Fiorentino: Elba, Pienza, Certaldo, Fiesole, Volterra; Polk: T50, Signature S15, RTA 15tl, RTi12; Sonner Audio Allegro Unum, Legato Unum, Legato Semis, Legato Duo; Emerald Physics CS-2.8; Klipsch KLF-20
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  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 40,627
    Clipdat wrote: »
    I'm pretty sure that the type of noise we are discussing here isn't the type that manifests itself into a "static hiss". It's not something that is audible during regular listening, but once it's removed, then you have the realization that it's no longer there.

    @F1nut @DSkip @pitdogg2 @tonyb - did I just describe that correctly?


    Bingo! It's called the noise floor.
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  • SCompRacerSCompRacer Posts: 6,949
    edited August 9
    Prior to stripping mini-PC's of unnecessary components to provide Linux based audio only servers, SOtM manufactured a PCIe USB card. It was designed to be externally powered via battery or high quality DC power supply.

    SOtM also made hard drive power filters. Sonore installed high quality power supplies for their fanless mini-PC's. Aluminum hard drive enclosures acted as heat sinks and were isolated with Sorbothane dots to prevent mechanical noise. All to provide the cleanest, lowest noise signal to the DAC.

    The issue with the Signature Sonore with Deux Power Supplies music server, the price. Now with the stripped versions, expense is less without sacrificing performance.

    These components, implemented properly with quality power supplies, made a huge improvement over standard PC's used as music servers.

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  • jeremymarcinkojeremymarcinko Posts: 3,259
    The noise floor you’re referring is affected at the analog portion of the signal chain, we are talking prior to the DAC. I’ll say it again a bit perfect file arriving at the same DAC doesn’t care how it got there and cannot be affected. No amount of extraneous noise at this stage will change the data in any way whatsoever. Any difference outside of hiss is taking place somewhere down the chain beyond the DAC. Like it or not that’s the truth.
    Oh, Listen here mister. We got no way of understandin' this world. But we got as much sense of this bird flyin in the sky. Now there is a lot that bird don't know, but it don't change the fact that the world is happening to him all the same. What I am tryin to say is, is that the course of your life, well its changing, and you don't even see it- Forest Bondurant
  • machonemachone Posts: 1,018
    You need to look at how JRiver is setup to output. If your DAC is only equipped to handle linear pcm then JRiver will convert the file for output even though it’s stored as wav. LPCM can introduce noise and clock issues.

    Look for a DAC that installs a dedicated driver on your PC. There are also products that help remove usb generated noise.

    FYI:
    I am using Fidelizer to shut down unnecessary processes unrelated to audio and I have an iFiPurifier2 on the usb input to the Marantz.

    I checked my Jriver settings last night.

    Audio Device
    -Audio Device=Marantz ASIO Device
    -Volume=automatically select (I don't know why this was the setting)
    -Buffer=50ms
    -large hardware buffer=yes
    -buffer size=3840 samples

    DSP
    -output format
    --output encoding=none
    --sample rate=no change except 176,400 for over 384,000 (for dsd)
    -channels=2
    -mixing=no up or down

    play files from memory=yes

    bitstream=yes (dsd)
    -option
    --bitstream format=dsd

    use gapless for sequential album track=yes

    I changed two settings.

    -Volume=Marantz usb audio
    -sample rate=176,400 for all

    While playing the Marantz confirms either dsd or 176,400.

    I did not A-B between the disc and the computer because things were sounding sweet and I was really enjoying the session! Also, previously I usually have several stutters during a session and last night there were none.



    Mojo Audio Joule v5>>Quantum Byte w/JRiver 24 and Fidelizer>> Starlight 7 USB >> Mojo Audio Mystique v2 SE>>ModWright SWL 9.0 SE Signature>>Hafler DH-500 Amp+ (Musical Concepts PA-6 Elite Mod)>>
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  • billbillwbillbillw Posts: 5,792
    Again....Windows....That is why Skip could see such a huge improvement, that is why you see a difference.

    A free way to try it: Make an Acronis (or similar full disc image software) backup of your main disk. Wipe it and load Daphile. Try it out, be amazed. If not, restore your image and point out that I was terribly wrong. I can handle it if I am.
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  • ThortonThorton Posts: 1,128
    This is a good thread with so many people having different configurations and set-ups to get music to their system with many different end results. I plan to try some different things in the future. I believe this could really make a nice “tour” with something like the Aries, Lumin U1 or Aurender N100C.
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  • machonemachone Posts: 1,018
    billbillw wrote: »
    Again....Windows....That is why Skip could see such a huge improvement, that is why you see a difference.

    A free way to try it: Make an Acronis (or similar full disc image software) backup of your main disk. Wipe it and load Daphile. Try it out, be amazed. If not, restore your image and point out that I was terribly wrong. I can handle it if I am.

    I took a quick look at Daphile. What would be recommended as a headless control?
    Mojo Audio Joule v5>>Quantum Byte w/JRiver 24 and Fidelizer>> Starlight 7 USB >> Mojo Audio Mystique v2 SE>>ModWright SWL 9.0 SE Signature>>Hafler DH-500 Amp+ (Musical Concepts PA-6 Elite Mod)>>
    SRS 2.3TL (Fully Modified)...SDA-1A (Fully Modified with Dimensional Tweeter Delete)
    1KVA Dreadnought
    Marantz SA 8005
    Pioneer PLX-1000 Turntable - Shure SC35C/N35X - V15III/VN35HE
    Yamaha TX-540 Tuner...Sony BDP-S570

    Separate subpanel with four dedicated 20 amp circuits.
    1. Amplification 2. Analog 3. Digital 4. Video

    "All THAT IS LOST FROM THE SOURCE IS LOST FOREVER"
  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 4,959
    I use the Safari web browser on my Galaxy S8, works fine.
    machone wrote: »
    I took a quick look at Daphile. What would be recommended as a headless control?

  • DSkipDSkip Posts: 15,131
    Would Daphile have improved my sound. Could have. With jRiver you bypass the Windows processing and I was happy at the time. When I realized how dirty it was, there was no point to throw more money to try and solve it.

    I could have continued to attempt to improve the computer but there is a limit that even software can't help. That is the issue im talking about. They are noisy environments inside and that noise passes through an analog realm (USB is still analog though it transmits digital data) and continues downstream all the way to your speakers.

    Im still struggling to see how literally every other digital transport sending a digital signal can have issues and purpose built units will sound better but a computer is somehow immune to this?
    audiothesis.com/

    Speakers: Harbeth: 30.2, SHL5+; Usher: Be-10, T-515; Rosso Fiorentino: Elba, Pienza, Certaldo, Fiesole, Volterra; Polk: T50, Signature S15, RTA 15tl, RTi12; Sonner Audio Allegro Unum, Legato Unum, Legato Semis, Legato Duo; Emerald Physics CS-2.8; Klipsch KLF-20
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  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 4,959
    You seem to be fixated on what happens after the "bit perfect" data reaches the DAC. Start thinking about what happens before that point.
    The noise floor you’re referring is affected at the analog portion of the signal chain, we are talking prior to the DAC. I’ll say it again a bit perfect file arriving at the same DAC doesn’t care how it got there and cannot be affected. No amount of extraneous noise at this stage will change the data in any way whatsoever. Any difference outside of hiss is taking place somewhere down the chain beyond the DAC. Like it or not that’s the truth.

  • jeremymarcinkojeremymarcinko Posts: 3,259
    edited August 9
    Clipdat wrote: »
    You seem to be fixated on what happens after the "bit perfect" data reaches the DAC. Start thinking about what happens before that point.
    The noise floor you’re referring is affected at the analog portion of the signal chain, we are talking prior to the DAC. I’ll say it again a bit perfect file arriving at the same DAC doesn’t care how it got there and cannot be affected. No amount of extraneous noise at this stage will change the data in any way whatsoever. Any difference outside of hiss is taking place somewhere down the chain beyond the DAC. Like it or not that’s the truth.

    The contrary actually. Are you following along? :)

    @DSkip Hold on back the truck up. USB and other digital cables are NOT analog, let’s not confuse anyone with this. They do NOT pass an analog audio signal that directly represents the frequency. Analog signals are directly amplified digital is not. Digital signals only have two values and never reach the amp; they end at the DAC. Digital signals are decoded then the DAC recreates an analog signal. The noise present on a digital interface cannot effect the value of a given bit. They are both electrical I’ll give you that.

    Any DAC worth it’s salt will filter out any lingering noise that has made its down the cable to the DAC. If not there are inexpensive filters that can added that will remove it or lessen to a negligible amount. Now any noise that still exists can create a hiss if amplified enough, but this type of noise is present to some degree on almost any analog audio device.

    Post edited by jeremymarcinko on
    Oh, Listen here mister. We got no way of understandin' this world. But we got as much sense of this bird flyin in the sky. Now there is a lot that bird don't know, but it don't change the fact that the world is happening to him all the same. What I am tryin to say is, is that the course of your life, well its changing, and you don't even see it- Forest Bondurant
  • jeremymarcinkojeremymarcinko Posts: 3,259
    Unlike USB, CD transports can have errors in with the timing of data delivery to the DAC, as there is no synchronized clock between the transport and DAC. In this type of scenario data is pushed at the pace of the transport.
    Oh, Listen here mister. We got no way of understandin' this world. But we got as much sense of this bird flyin in the sky. Now there is a lot that bird don't know, but it don't change the fact that the world is happening to him all the same. What I am tryin to say is, is that the course of your life, well its changing, and you don't even see it- Forest Bondurant
  • DSkipDSkip Posts: 15,131
    OK. I can actually approach that.

    The issues have nothing to do with errors. I COMPLETELY agree that a bit is a bit, but this is an area where there are almost no failures anymore. The issue is that this digital transmission is done in the analog realm. In the analog realm, noise, both physical and electrical, as well as the cable and its metallurgy play a role in the sound. Why? Because its an ANALOG cable. The signal is digital, but the environment it is sent in is analog.

    The above is also why I say if you are somehow getting your signal transmitted via wifi or some other wireless connection, the quality of the device where the file is stored or played from is of no real consequence. Once a physical connection is made though, quality matters.

    The 1's and 0's argument is a rudimentary approach to what is happening and has no basis on what actually happens. Even those who believe streamers have a role WILL not argue against 1's and 0's because you can't. If you are not getting an error-free transmission, you have bigger issues than the difference a computer/streamer/CD transport etc. can make.

    I'm afraid I can't explain it any more than that. I ask that you open your mind (as is commonly preached here) and consider the fact that maybe the issue isn't with the DIGITAL transmission, but the ANALOG environment.
    audiothesis.com/

    Speakers: Harbeth: 30.2, SHL5+; Usher: Be-10, T-515; Rosso Fiorentino: Elba, Pienza, Certaldo, Fiesole, Volterra; Polk: T50, Signature S15, RTA 15tl, RTi12; Sonner Audio Allegro Unum, Legato Unum, Legato Semis, Legato Duo; Emerald Physics CS-2.8; Klipsch KLF-20
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    Cabling: Wireworld
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  • jeremymarcinkojeremymarcinko Posts: 3,259
    Oh dear lord did you say that out loud first? You really need to hear yourself right now. Jk trying to be funny, but Analog realm, really? Are we redefining the properties of what is and what isn’t? You are saying because it has electrical properties it is analog, sorry that’s not what analog means. I already explained this but I’ll do it again. A cable is a cable but the distinction is in the type of signal they carry, yeah? Analog refers to a signal that is linear and has a continuously variable set of values. Ideally these values do not change as the signal travels to its destination but they will some and that’s called distortion.

    A digital signal on the other hand only has two values as we know are 1s and 0’s in code but as an electrical signal it’s just on or off. and therefore by definition is NOT continuously variable and is NOT analog.

    There is no analog (continuously variable) signal on the rendering side or input side of the DAC. There is low level noise, as you know we have beat that topic to death, that can create a static hiss at the tweets if amplified enough.

    The point I think you are trying to make is that the noise on the rendering side of the DAC is significantly affecting the analog signal on the output side of the DAC. Which is where I think we disagree in its ability to do so.

    As I’ve mentioned it gets filtered or can be easily filtered. I agree it’s better to have a less noisy rendering platform to begin with, but the noise is not a complicated problem to fix.

    So keeping it real, PCs are more than decent digital sources. Streamers and PCs can both be great when executed properly.





    Oh, Listen here mister. We got no way of understandin' this world. But we got as much sense of this bird flyin in the sky. Now there is a lot that bird don't know, but it don't change the fact that the world is happening to him all the same. What I am tryin to say is, is that the course of your life, well its changing, and you don't even see it- Forest Bondurant
  • nooshinjohnnooshinjohn Posts: 18,561
    Where is the Darqueknight when we need him...
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, TriangleArt Reference SE with PS Audio NuWave Phono converter, Walker Precision Motor Drive, ClearAudio Stradivari v2 cartridge and Origin Conquerer Mk3c tonearm, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Pass Labs X1 two channel preamplifier Signed by Poppa himself, PS Audio PerfectWave DAC MkII, Krell Evolution 525a CD Player, Pioneer Elite SC-65, Oppo UDP-205 Blu-ray , Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk audio AB700/800 "in-wall" surrounds

  • SCompRacerSCompRacer Posts: 6,949
    There are a couple issues with dirty USB power carrying your digital info to a DAC. One is jitter and another is packet noise in the USB receiver of the DAC. Thus you can affect sound output of a DAC with poor USB input. The more processing to determine the bits, the more noise is generated. Like it or not, that’s the truth.
    Make yourself necessary to someone. Ralph Waldo Emerson

    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ & Pro 11+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS* Twisted Pear Buffalo III Dual Mono ESS Sabre32 DAC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *

  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 40,627
    edited August 10
    Audio should never be as complicated as the computer/server gear mentioned in this thread. Seems to me far too many have forgotten the KISS approach.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


  • kharp1kharp1 Posts: 2,583
    The noise floor you’re referring is affected at the analog portion of the signal chain, we are talking prior to the DAC. I’ll say it again a bit perfect file arriving at the same DAC doesn’t care how it got there and cannot be affected. No amount of extraneous noise at this stage will change the data in any way whatsoever. Any difference outside of hiss is taking place somewhere down the chain beyond the DAC. Like it or not that’s the truth.

    Prove it. Please.
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  • jeremymarcinkojeremymarcinko Posts: 3,259
    Where is the Darqueknight when we need him...
    SCompRacer wrote: »
    There are a couple issues with dirty USB power carrying your digital info to a DAC. One is jitter and another is packet noise in the USB receiver of the DAC. Thus you can affect sound output of a DAC with poor USB input. The more processing to determine the bits, the more noise is generated. Like it or not, that’s the truth.

    It’s not the truth and not how jitter occurs. Jitter doesn’t have any meaningful affect on the asynchronous USB DACs we are discussing.
    We already discussed this and it’s not the cause of the audible drop in noise floor Skip has noticed.

    Packet noise is just another name for the same static noise and we have already established there are inexpensive products that remove it effectively.

    Oh, Listen here mister. We got no way of understandin' this world. But we got as much sense of this bird flyin in the sky. Now there is a lot that bird don't know, but it don't change the fact that the world is happening to him all the same. What I am tryin to say is, is that the course of your life, well its changing, and you don't even see it- Forest Bondurant
  • joecoulsonjoecoulson Posts: 941
    While I am in the midst of deciding what streamer to purchase, I appreciate all of the insight presented in this thread. I also appreciate while opinions are heavily presented, it’s all done without (for the most part) emotion and specifically unpleasantries.
    I am very interested in all of this as I have no way to audition the units I am considering without buying them first. Seems to me that digital signals can be affected both internally (by transports, DAC’s ) and externally (power supplies, wires, circuit boards) and would be almost impossible to pass an original file without some sort of influence before reaching amplification.
    I have considered the portable hi res players because it takes the power supply out of the equation.
    I like the sound (no pun) of what I am hearing (again no pun) on here about the Aries mini, but cannot seem to find one.
    I also love the look of the CA CXN v2 and from what I have read will do a great job, but again $900 to see if it works for me.
    Currently I am running the Denon 2910 with Toslink and the Sonos Connect with Toslink to the Marantz pre and letting the onboard Marantz DAC’s process.
    I’ve tried the DAC’s in the 2910, which are not bad, but prefer the Marantz.
    I know that sonos is more about convenience than top shelf audio, but Tidal sounds pretty good.
    Just not sure if it will be a massive difference ($900 worth) swapping out the Connect for a streamer.
    Not until I do anyway.
    Thank you all for pouring out your knowledge on this forum for us to delve into.
  • SCompRacerSCompRacer Posts: 6,949
    edited August 10
    zuul wrote: »

    as i've querried before.... don't devices like the aq jitterbug and schiit wyrd usb decrapifier address this issue directly? thus lowering the noise floor to barely audible levels?



    Common mode USB noise can cause problems at the DAC receiver. Audioquest even states "Noise-compromised digital circuitry increases jitter and packet errors, resulting in distortion that causes a comparatively flat and irritating sound." Marketing hype or truth with marketing hype?

    I've built many DAC's over the years. I've tried every type of input and settled on USB. USB to I2S specifically. If folks wish to go the Jitterbug 'fix' route that's great. I'd rather invest in prevention instead of buying a cure.





    Make yourself necessary to someone. Ralph Waldo Emerson

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  • jeremymarcinkojeremymarcinko Posts: 3,259
    Folks should know I2S is a standard interface employed in almost all off the shelf asynchronous USB DAC devices.

    It’s job is reduce noise from the PC to the DAC by isolating the DAC chip.
    Oh, Listen here mister. We got no way of understandin' this world. But we got as much sense of this bird flyin in the sky. Now there is a lot that bird don't know, but it don't change the fact that the world is happening to him all the same. What I am tryin to say is, is that the course of your life, well its changing, and you don't even see it- Forest Bondurant
  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 4,959
    @jeremymarcinko I mean this in the friendliest, least combative way possible, but have you ever directly compared a PC to a dedicated streamer to see if you could notice any audible differences?
  • SCompRacerSCompRacer Posts: 6,949
    Yet there is USB to SPDIF, thus the I2S mention.
    Make yourself necessary to someone. Ralph Waldo Emerson

    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ & Pro 11+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS* Twisted Pear Buffalo III Dual Mono ESS Sabre32 DAC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *

  • machonemachone Posts: 1,018
    SComp said "I'd rather invest in prevention instead of buying a cure".

    My understanding is that usb in audio is almost always unidirectional. If there is a packet error then it cannot be resent and even if it could be resent; music is occurring in real time and the resent packets would have to arrive during the same clock cycle in order to "close the loop" and be "bit perfect".

    Dirty power supplies cause packet errors and when they occur they are not corrected and therefore no bit perfect stream. This is the reason people spend a lot of money for clean power for any type of computer or streamer.







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  • ThortonThorton Posts: 1,128
    Does anyone has experience with or can comment on sending the signal via ethernet vs USB?
    _____________________________________________________________________________________________
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  • jeremymarcinkojeremymarcinko Posts: 3,259
    edited August 10
    Streamers yes - High end no.

    I am debating purely from a logical stance.

    So if you’re following the thread I am not disputing the high end streamers can’t sound better than a PC, I am not doubting Skips experience the least. I am saying that both devices job is to deliver the file to the DACs and outside of bit perfect there is no room for improvement. The USB DAC will create an output signal + whatever low level static output exists to this point and it does not matter the source. After the DAC the name of the game is to reduce signal degradation as much as possible, using Skips term, in the Analog realm.

    I’ll even go as far as saying that if you want to try WiFi bit perfect streaming all that is necessary is your IPhone. I am 99% sure it can do usb audio to a compatible asynchronous USB DAC.

    Yeah why not, the truth is no one needs a dedicated streamer to get the most out of their DAC.
    Oh, Listen here mister. We got no way of understandin' this world. But we got as much sense of this bird flyin in the sky. Now there is a lot that bird don't know, but it don't change the fact that the world is happening to him all the same. What I am tryin to say is, is that the course of your life, well its changing, and you don't even see it- Forest Bondurant
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