Disc versus Computer

machonemachone Posts: 1,018
I bought a new CD the other day.

Usually I rip them and add them to my collection located on a microSD memory of my Quantum Byte computer. But this time I played them first on my Marantz SA8005. Then I ripped them and played them through the Marantz USB from the Quantum Byte. The computer is just not as good. There is loss of air around the instruments/voices and the bass is not as tight as the Marantz.

I double checked other albums and got similar results.

So, same DAC but different source plus the usb cable and the usb interface.
The Quantum Byte is fanless and SS with an excellent linear PS. Running Win10 with Jriver21. The cable is a WireWorld Starlight.

I wonder why there is such a difference?
Mojo Audio Joule v5>>Quantum Byte w/JRiver 24 and Fidelizer>> Starlight 7 USB >> Mojo Audio Mystique v2 SE>>ModWright SWL 9.0 SE Signature>>Hafler DH-500 Amp+ (Musical Concepts PA-6 Elite Mod)>>
SRS 2.3TL (Fully Modified)...SDA-1A (Fully Modified with Dimensional Tweeter Delete)
1KVA Dreadnought
Marantz SA 8005
Pioneer PLX-1000 Turntable - Shure SC35C/N35X - V15III/VN35HE
Yamaha TX-540 Tuner...Sony BDP-S570

Separate subpanel with four dedicated 20 amp circuits.
1. Amplification 2. Analog 3. Digital 4. Video

"All THAT IS LOST FROM THE SOURCE IS LOST FOREVER"
«13

Comments

  • ConradiclesConradicles Posts: 5,753
    You may hurt some feelings...
  • machonemachone Posts: 1,018
    You may hurt some feelings...

    It hurts my feelings!
    Mojo Audio Joule v5>>Quantum Byte w/JRiver 24 and Fidelizer>> Starlight 7 USB >> Mojo Audio Mystique v2 SE>>ModWright SWL 9.0 SE Signature>>Hafler DH-500 Amp+ (Musical Concepts PA-6 Elite Mod)>>
    SRS 2.3TL (Fully Modified)...SDA-1A (Fully Modified with Dimensional Tweeter Delete)
    1KVA Dreadnought
    Marantz SA 8005
    Pioneer PLX-1000 Turntable - Shure SC35C/N35X - V15III/VN35HE
    Yamaha TX-540 Tuner...Sony BDP-S570

    Separate subpanel with four dedicated 20 amp circuits.
    1. Amplification 2. Analog 3. Digital 4. Video

    "All THAT IS LOST FROM THE SOURCE IS LOST FOREVER"
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 19,542
    edited August 7
    well, there are a few unit operations to get your data, umm, I mean, music from disc to server. Any or all can do damage, the way that I look at it.
  • nooshinjohnnooshinjohn Posts: 18,548
    You need a better DAC
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, TriangleArt Reference SE with PS Audio NuWave Phono converter, Walker Precision Motor Drive, ClearAudio Stradivari v2 cartridge and Origin Conquerer Mk3c tonearm, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Pass Labs X1 two channel preamplifier Signed by Poppa himself, PS Audio PerfectWave DAC MkII, Krell Evolution 525a CD Player, Pioneer Elite SC-65, Oppo UDP-205 Blu-ray , Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk audio AB700/800 "in-wall" surrounds

  • DSkipDSkip Posts: 15,122
    A computer is a computer and is not good for audio. I regret building my computer as it cost me thousands and was outdone by a $500 Aries Mini.
    audiothesis.com/

    Speakers: Harbeth: 30.2, SHL5+; Usher: Be-10, T-515; Rosso Fiorentino: Elba, Pienza, Certaldo, Fiesole, Volterra; Polk: T50, Signature S15, RTA 15tl, RTi12; Sonner Audio Allegro Unum, Legato Unum, Legato Semis, Legato Duo; Emerald Physics CS-2.8; Klipsch KLF-20
    Preamps: Shuguang S200MK, Dayens Ampino, Parasound P5
    Amps: Shuguang S845MK, Dayens Ampino Monoblocks, Parasound A23
    Integrateds: Triode Corporation TRV-88SER, MastersounD: BoX, Dueventi, Compact 845, Evolution 845; North Star Design Blue Diamond
    Sources: AURALiC Aries, Denon HEOS Link, North Star Design: Magnifico, Supremo, Incanto, Intenso, Venti
    Cabling: Wireworld
    TV: Sony XBR-75X940C
  • machonemachone Posts: 1,018
    You need a better DAC

    I would like a better DAC but my beef is with the same DAC there is a difference.

    Let's say I get a better DAC and use the Marantz as a transport versus Skips recommended Aries Mini.

    Which one wins?
    Mojo Audio Joule v5>>Quantum Byte w/JRiver 24 and Fidelizer>> Starlight 7 USB >> Mojo Audio Mystique v2 SE>>ModWright SWL 9.0 SE Signature>>Hafler DH-500 Amp+ (Musical Concepts PA-6 Elite Mod)>>
    SRS 2.3TL (Fully Modified)...SDA-1A (Fully Modified with Dimensional Tweeter Delete)
    1KVA Dreadnought
    Marantz SA 8005
    Pioneer PLX-1000 Turntable - Shure SC35C/N35X - V15III/VN35HE
    Yamaha TX-540 Tuner...Sony BDP-S570

    Separate subpanel with four dedicated 20 amp circuits.
    1. Amplification 2. Analog 3. Digital 4. Video

    "All THAT IS LOST FROM THE SOURCE IS LOST FOREVER"
  • machonemachone Posts: 1,018
    Oops, I thought the Aries Mini was a music server.
    If it were then which one is better?
    Mojo Audio Joule v5>>Quantum Byte w/JRiver 24 and Fidelizer>> Starlight 7 USB >> Mojo Audio Mystique v2 SE>>ModWright SWL 9.0 SE Signature>>Hafler DH-500 Amp+ (Musical Concepts PA-6 Elite Mod)>>
    SRS 2.3TL (Fully Modified)...SDA-1A (Fully Modified with Dimensional Tweeter Delete)
    1KVA Dreadnought
    Marantz SA 8005
    Pioneer PLX-1000 Turntable - Shure SC35C/N35X - V15III/VN35HE
    Yamaha TX-540 Tuner...Sony BDP-S570

    Separate subpanel with four dedicated 20 amp circuits.
    1. Amplification 2. Analog 3. Digital 4. Video

    "All THAT IS LOST FROM THE SOURCE IS LOST FOREVER"
  • HermitismHermitism Posts: 1,973
    edited August 7
    Just to clarify, are you ripping them as flac, or another lossless format? Just wanted to make sure they weren't mp3.
    2.0 - Marantz NA8005 | Polk LSiM703 | PS Audio: Duet, Power Port Classic, PerfectWave AC5 x3 PC | Wireworld Equinox 7 IC | Sanus UF30 | OC703 Panels

    6.1 - Pioneer Elite SC-05 | Pio BDP-51FD | Polk: RTi8, CSi5, F/Xi3, CSi3 | HSU Research VTF-2 MK4 | PS Audio: Quintet, Power Port Classic | DCF124BW x3 SC | Pangea: AC-9SE x2, 14SE, 14 PC | AQ Chocolate x2 HDMI | M850SW | OC703 Panels
  • machonemachone Posts: 1,018
    Hermitism wrote: »
    Just to clarify, are you ripping them as flac, or another lossless format? Just wanted to make sure they weren't mp3.

    Wave with secure rip in Jriver
    Mojo Audio Joule v5>>Quantum Byte w/JRiver 24 and Fidelizer>> Starlight 7 USB >> Mojo Audio Mystique v2 SE>>ModWright SWL 9.0 SE Signature>>Hafler DH-500 Amp+ (Musical Concepts PA-6 Elite Mod)>>
    SRS 2.3TL (Fully Modified)...SDA-1A (Fully Modified with Dimensional Tweeter Delete)
    1KVA Dreadnought
    Marantz SA 8005
    Pioneer PLX-1000 Turntable - Shure SC35C/N35X - V15III/VN35HE
    Yamaha TX-540 Tuner...Sony BDP-S570

    Separate subpanel with four dedicated 20 amp circuits.
    1. Amplification 2. Analog 3. Digital 4. Video

    "All THAT IS LOST FROM THE SOURCE IS LOST FOREVER"
  • HermitismHermitism Posts: 1,973
    Cool, I just wanted to make sure it wasn't lossy. I have a Marantz NA8005, and play flac from a thumbdrive, but I can't remember if you can play wave from a thumbdrive. That would give you something to compare it to.
    2.0 - Marantz NA8005 | Polk LSiM703 | PS Audio: Duet, Power Port Classic, PerfectWave AC5 x3 PC | Wireworld Equinox 7 IC | Sanus UF30 | OC703 Panels

    6.1 - Pioneer Elite SC-05 | Pio BDP-51FD | Polk: RTi8, CSi5, F/Xi3, CSi3 | HSU Research VTF-2 MK4 | PS Audio: Quintet, Power Port Classic | DCF124BW x3 SC | Pangea: AC-9SE x2, 14SE, 14 PC | AQ Chocolate x2 HDMI | M850SW | OC703 Panels
  • machonemachone Posts: 1,018
    I could go coax out from the Marantz to a better DAC but I like the convenience of a computer.
    Mojo Audio Joule v5>>Quantum Byte w/JRiver 24 and Fidelizer>> Starlight 7 USB >> Mojo Audio Mystique v2 SE>>ModWright SWL 9.0 SE Signature>>Hafler DH-500 Amp+ (Musical Concepts PA-6 Elite Mod)>>
    SRS 2.3TL (Fully Modified)...SDA-1A (Fully Modified with Dimensional Tweeter Delete)
    1KVA Dreadnought
    Marantz SA 8005
    Pioneer PLX-1000 Turntable - Shure SC35C/N35X - V15III/VN35HE
    Yamaha TX-540 Tuner...Sony BDP-S570

    Separate subpanel with four dedicated 20 amp circuits.
    1. Amplification 2. Analog 3. Digital 4. Video

    "All THAT IS LOST FROM THE SOURCE IS LOST FOREVER"
  • nooshinjohnnooshinjohn Posts: 18,548
    I go from my computer to a PS Audio PerfectWave DAC II and it made all the difference.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, TriangleArt Reference SE with PS Audio NuWave Phono converter, Walker Precision Motor Drive, ClearAudio Stradivari v2 cartridge and Origin Conquerer Mk3c tonearm, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Pass Labs X1 two channel preamplifier Signed by Poppa himself, PS Audio PerfectWave DAC MkII, Krell Evolution 525a CD Player, Pioneer Elite SC-65, Oppo UDP-205 Blu-ray , Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk audio AB700/800 "in-wall" surrounds

  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 40,613
    DSkip wrote: »
    A computer is a computer and is not good for audio.

    BINGO!!!
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


  • DSkipDSkip Posts: 15,122
    I’ll readily admit I made a $2,000+ mistake building my music server/streamer. I thought I could best what appeared to me to be a cheap computer that companies used for streaming. The truth is these devices (good ones) are as much about quality of playback as they are overall experience and integration. They may not use the best processors etc, but there is much more to it than that.

    Getting a streamer in the mix was one of those ‘aha’ moments for me. They’ve been rare the last few years but that one was YUGE!

    As always, the level of your playback system and any bottlenecks can change the outcome some, but even my spiffed up purpose built PC was quickly shown that it was my bottleneck.

    As an aside, anyone using a Windows PC and listening to Tidal might as well be listening to Pandora IMO. In this scenario the Tidal app does not bypass the Windows audio processing and it completely destroys what would otherwise be a pleasant experience.
    audiothesis.com/

    Speakers: Harbeth: 30.2, SHL5+; Usher: Be-10, T-515; Rosso Fiorentino: Elba, Pienza, Certaldo, Fiesole, Volterra; Polk: T50, Signature S15, RTA 15tl, RTi12; Sonner Audio Allegro Unum, Legato Unum, Legato Semis, Legato Duo; Emerald Physics CS-2.8; Klipsch KLF-20
    Preamps: Shuguang S200MK, Dayens Ampino, Parasound P5
    Amps: Shuguang S845MK, Dayens Ampino Monoblocks, Parasound A23
    Integrateds: Triode Corporation TRV-88SER, MastersounD: BoX, Dueventi, Compact 845, Evolution 845; North Star Design Blue Diamond
    Sources: AURALiC Aries, Denon HEOS Link, North Star Design: Magnifico, Supremo, Incanto, Intenso, Venti
    Cabling: Wireworld
    TV: Sony XBR-75X940C
  • jeremymarcinkojeremymarcinko Posts: 3,259
    edited August 7
    You need to look at how JRiver is setup to output. If your DAC is only equipped to handle linear pcm then JRiver will convert the file for output even though it’s stored as wav. LPCM can introduce noise and clock issues.

    Look for a DAC that installs a dedicated driver on your PC. There are also products that help remove usb generated noise.
    Oh, Listen here mister. We got no way of understandin' this world. But we got as much sense of this bird flyin in the sky. Now there is a lot that bird don't know, but it don't change the fact that the world is happening to him all the same. What I am tryin to say is, is that the course of your life, well its changing, and you don't even see it- Forest Bondurant
  • DSkipDSkip Posts: 15,122
    I go from my computer to a PS Audio PerfectWave DAC II and it made all the difference.

    Via usb? If so, you are still selling yourself short just like the OP.
    audiothesis.com/

    Speakers: Harbeth: 30.2, SHL5+; Usher: Be-10, T-515; Rosso Fiorentino: Elba, Pienza, Certaldo, Fiesole, Volterra; Polk: T50, Signature S15, RTA 15tl, RTi12; Sonner Audio Allegro Unum, Legato Unum, Legato Semis, Legato Duo; Emerald Physics CS-2.8; Klipsch KLF-20
    Preamps: Shuguang S200MK, Dayens Ampino, Parasound P5
    Amps: Shuguang S845MK, Dayens Ampino Monoblocks, Parasound A23
    Integrateds: Triode Corporation TRV-88SER, MastersounD: BoX, Dueventi, Compact 845, Evolution 845; North Star Design Blue Diamond
    Sources: AURALiC Aries, Denon HEOS Link, North Star Design: Magnifico, Supremo, Incanto, Intenso, Venti
    Cabling: Wireworld
    TV: Sony XBR-75X940C
  • billbillwbillbillw Posts: 5,792
    edited August 8
    machone wrote: »
    Running Win10 with Jriver21. The cable is a WireWorld Starlight.

    I wonder why there is such a difference?

    Windows 10 is your reason. Get a linux setup that can do true bit-perfect playback with asysnchronous USB. Then you may hear the opposite effect>Better with USB than by disc. Something like Daphile would be easy to setup and should give you the best possible playback from that little PC.
    Main 2-ch:
    Sony SS-M9; LSA Statement Amplifier; VPI HW-19 Mk3/Sumiko Premier FT-4/Audio Technica AT15SA; Pass Labs DIY Pearl Phono; Sony SCD-C333ES SACD Changer; TEAC UD-301 DAC; Dell/WYSE 5010 (running Daphile); Sony ST-SA5ES Tuner; Nanotec Golden Strada speaker cables (SR+#79 Shotgun); Audioquest Coral interconnects
  • billbillwbillbillw Posts: 5,792
    edited August 8
    DSkip wrote: »
    A computer is a computer and is not good for audio. I regret building my computer as it cost me thousands and was outdone by a $500 Aries Mini.

    Yep, no reason to spend 1000s on a PC for music playback. However, there is nothing inherently wrong with a PC as long as it is simple, has no moving parts, and has the correct software/OS running. I have found a sub-$50 thin client (something with a small SSD, and no fan) running Daphile can perform on par with something like an Aries Mini or other dedicated streaming device.
    Main 2-ch:
    Sony SS-M9; LSA Statement Amplifier; VPI HW-19 Mk3/Sumiko Premier FT-4/Audio Technica AT15SA; Pass Labs DIY Pearl Phono; Sony SCD-C333ES SACD Changer; TEAC UD-301 DAC; Dell/WYSE 5010 (running Daphile); Sony ST-SA5ES Tuner; Nanotec Golden Strada speaker cables (SR+#79 Shotgun); Audioquest Coral interconnects
  • DarqueKnightDarqueKnight Posts: 6,340
    machone wrote: »
    The computer is just not as good.

    I wonder why there is such a difference?

    Electrical noise and mechanical noise.

    A well designed audio component has a low noise...and noise filtering...power supply.
    Thought is given to the electrical noise characteristics of the components that are selected, and the position of those components in relation to each other. If an audio component has a fan, some thought is given to selecting a fan that has very low electrical and mechanical noise.

    General purpose computers are not designed for high fidelity, low noise music reproduction.



    "So hot it burns Mice!"~DK
    "Polk SDA-SRSs are hopelessly out of date both sonically and technologically... I see no value whatsoever in older SDA speakers."~Audio Asylum Member
    "Knowledge, without understanding, is a path to failure."~DK
    "Those who irrationally rail against something or someone that is no threat to them, actually desire (or desire to be like) the thing or person they are railing against."~DK
  • DSkipDSkip Posts: 15,122
    billbillw wrote: »
    DSkip wrote: »
    A computer is a computer and is not good for audio. I regret building my computer as it cost me thousands and was outdone by a $500 Aries Mini.

    Yep, no reason to spend 1000s on a PC for music playback. However, there is nothing inherently wrong with a PC as long as it is simple, has no moving parts, and has the correct software/OS running. I have found a sub-$50 thin client (something with a small SSD, and no fan) running Daphile can perform on par with something like an Aries Mini or other dedicated streaming device.

    Sorry but not the case. My computer also had no moving parts outside of the optical drive.

    As DK said, these streaming devices are optimized for the job and the difference is evident. They are transports by definition and their quality has a direct impact on the sound. I'm not saying you can't get decent sound from a computer, but they simply don't compete with good streamers. I'm also not saying someone should spend thousands on a streamer as some systems may not expose the benefits fully. Heck, I still use a Denon HEOS link with a system and am fine with it.

    I did get the AURALiC Aries G1 in yesterday and it replaced the HEOS since I had sold my Aries. Wow, what a difference right off the bat!
    audiothesis.com/

    Speakers: Harbeth: 30.2, SHL5+; Usher: Be-10, T-515; Rosso Fiorentino: Elba, Pienza, Certaldo, Fiesole, Volterra; Polk: T50, Signature S15, RTA 15tl, RTi12; Sonner Audio Allegro Unum, Legato Unum, Legato Semis, Legato Duo; Emerald Physics CS-2.8; Klipsch KLF-20
    Preamps: Shuguang S200MK, Dayens Ampino, Parasound P5
    Amps: Shuguang S845MK, Dayens Ampino Monoblocks, Parasound A23
    Integrateds: Triode Corporation TRV-88SER, MastersounD: BoX, Dueventi, Compact 845, Evolution 845; North Star Design Blue Diamond
    Sources: AURALiC Aries, Denon HEOS Link, North Star Design: Magnifico, Supremo, Incanto, Intenso, Venti
    Cabling: Wireworld
    TV: Sony XBR-75X940C
  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 4,941
    This is the key. Even Windows 10 can be configured for bit perfect playback.

    As far as components and layout, there are higher end components available when putting together a DIY gaming/audio PC. Certain power supplies for example use Japanese capacitors and other electronics, and boast a 10 year warranty.

    So, there are certain build considerations that you can keep in mind, as well as case layout/component proximity. But, you can't custom manufacture a bespoke motherboard with the sole purpose of audio reproduction like AURALiC has with their G1 and G2 products. Take a look at the internals of them, they're gorgeous!
    billbillw wrote: »
    Yep, no reason to spend 1000s on a PC for music playback. However, there is nothing inherently wrong with a PC as long as it is simple, has no moving parts, and has the correct software/OS running. I have found a sub-$50 thin client (something with a small SSD, and no fan) running Daphile can perform on par with something like an Aries Mini or other dedicated streaming device.

  • jeremymarcinkojeremymarcinko Posts: 3,259
    edited August 8
    DSkip wrote: »
    billbillw wrote: »
    DSkip wrote: »
    A computer is a computer and is not good for audio. I regret building my computer as it cost me thousands and was outdone by a $500 Aries Mini.

    Yep, no reason to spend 1000s on a PC for music playback. However, there is nothing inherently wrong with a PC as long as it is simple, has no moving parts, and has the correct software/OS running. I have found a sub-$50 thin client (something with a small SSD, and no fan) running Daphile can perform on par with something like an Aries Mini or other dedicated streaming device.

    Sorry but not the case. My computer also had no moving parts outside of the optical drive.

    As DK said, these streaming devices are optimized for the job and the difference is evident. They are transports by definition and their quality has a direct impact on the sound. I'm not saying you can't get decent sound from a computer, but they simply don't compete with good streamers. I'm also not saying someone should spend thousands on a streamer as some systems may not expose the benefits fully. Heck, I still use a Denon HEOS link with a system and am fine with it.

    I did get the AURALiC Aries G1 in yesterday and it replaced the HEOS since I had sold my Aries. Wow, what a difference right off the bat!

    Sorry that is the case. My PC setup with an asynchronous USB DAC sounds “great” not “decent.” So...pffft.

    Mechanical noise aside, as long bit perfect data arrives at the DAC and the DAC can process the bit perfect data then the source supplying the bit perfect data is irrelevant.

    Skip, in your case you went from a dedicated pc supplying data to your DAC to an all in one solution which also used a different DAC, no?

    Post edited by jeremymarcinko on
    Oh, Listen here mister. We got no way of understandin' this world. But we got as much sense of this bird flyin in the sky. Now there is a lot that bird don't know, but it don't change the fact that the world is happening to him all the same. What I am tryin to say is, is that the course of your life, well its changing, and you don't even see it- Forest Bondurant
  • DSkipDSkip Posts: 15,122
    Same DAC. A transport plays a significant role in the sound. It might not be to the level of another component but it can be a big bottleneck in some systems.

    And all sarcasm completely aside, I have no doubt your rig sounds good. I've seen how many beverages you consume in front of it. It can't be bad with such repeat business.
    audiothesis.com/

    Speakers: Harbeth: 30.2, SHL5+; Usher: Be-10, T-515; Rosso Fiorentino: Elba, Pienza, Certaldo, Fiesole, Volterra; Polk: T50, Signature S15, RTA 15tl, RTi12; Sonner Audio Allegro Unum, Legato Unum, Legato Semis, Legato Duo; Emerald Physics CS-2.8; Klipsch KLF-20
    Preamps: Shuguang S200MK, Dayens Ampino, Parasound P5
    Amps: Shuguang S845MK, Dayens Ampino Monoblocks, Parasound A23
    Integrateds: Triode Corporation TRV-88SER, MastersounD: BoX, Dueventi, Compact 845, Evolution 845; North Star Design Blue Diamond
    Sources: AURALiC Aries, Denon HEOS Link, North Star Design: Magnifico, Supremo, Incanto, Intenso, Venti
    Cabling: Wireworld
    TV: Sony XBR-75X940C
  • jeremymarcinkojeremymarcinko Posts: 3,259
    A CD transport sure, pcm over a digital cable sure, the same file, bitrate, over usb to the same DAC, nope not a chance. Impossible.

    Any difference you heard was likely some additional processing taking place, as you noted in the PC, or the streamer is manipulating the file via a dsp of sorts. A dsp that boosts the dB just a decibel or two can be perceived as greater sound quality.

    Truth is you don’t know what the streamer is doing. You just know you prefer it to the PC you had.

    The blanket statement pc based transports are inferior to streamers, specifically the ones in your product catalog, is misguided, based on a single example with too many variables and not enough facts.

    Come on man keep it real.
    Oh, Listen here mister. We got no way of understandin' this world. But we got as much sense of this bird flyin in the sky. Now there is a lot that bird don't know, but it don't change the fact that the world is happening to him all the same. What I am tryin to say is, is that the course of your life, well its changing, and you don't even see it- Forest Bondurant
  • DSkipDSkip Posts: 15,122
    I am. If the files are streamed via wifi and the computer is not hard wired you won't have the same issues. At that point the file is being transmitted without the inherent noise floor of the computer following it. That is what I tried to avoid with my computer build and I thought it was great until I realized I maybe lost a layer of noise but had so much more on top of it.

    I'm not sure why one digital signal is any more or less susceptible than the other? If it's digital then it's digital so I feel as though you are contradicting yourself.
    audiothesis.com/

    Speakers: Harbeth: 30.2, SHL5+; Usher: Be-10, T-515; Rosso Fiorentino: Elba, Pienza, Certaldo, Fiesole, Volterra; Polk: T50, Signature S15, RTA 15tl, RTi12; Sonner Audio Allegro Unum, Legato Unum, Legato Semis, Legato Duo; Emerald Physics CS-2.8; Klipsch KLF-20
    Preamps: Shuguang S200MK, Dayens Ampino, Parasound P5
    Amps: Shuguang S845MK, Dayens Ampino Monoblocks, Parasound A23
    Integrateds: Triode Corporation TRV-88SER, MastersounD: BoX, Dueventi, Compact 845, Evolution 845; North Star Design Blue Diamond
    Sources: AURALiC Aries, Denon HEOS Link, North Star Design: Magnifico, Supremo, Incanto, Intenso, Venti
    Cabling: Wireworld
    TV: Sony XBR-75X940C
  • DSkipDSkip Posts: 15,122
    To respond to 'my catalog', I'm recommending a product I can't sell. I'm recommending someone find a used product on the used market and grab it. How does this benefit me? The reason I even considered AURALiC in the first place was the buzz surrounding the Aries Mini. I knew too many people who got one and fell in love. I decided to give it a shot and I was left pissed off that I was so ignorant to have spent thousands building a computer to 'best' streamers.

    I wanted to be less than impressed by AURALiC because I wanted to believe my investment was smart. Keep in mind, at that time I had VERY little to invest and took a massive chance on the server. It was a complete flop. Complete.

    I don't care what you rock as long as you enjoy the tunes. I'm not pushing for a profit here and only trying to spread information. If I were not a dealer would you still disregard my input? Or now that I am a dealer and have had experience with much higher level gear than I could have ever dreamed of having is everything I've learned now invalid?

    If you haven't noticed, I don't post as much as I used to. I still post frequently but I stay out of many discussions. I guess I should limit it more as every post I make has to have its intentions questioned.
    audiothesis.com/

    Speakers: Harbeth: 30.2, SHL5+; Usher: Be-10, T-515; Rosso Fiorentino: Elba, Pienza, Certaldo, Fiesole, Volterra; Polk: T50, Signature S15, RTA 15tl, RTi12; Sonner Audio Allegro Unum, Legato Unum, Legato Semis, Legato Duo; Emerald Physics CS-2.8; Klipsch KLF-20
    Preamps: Shuguang S200MK, Dayens Ampino, Parasound P5
    Amps: Shuguang S845MK, Dayens Ampino Monoblocks, Parasound A23
    Integrateds: Triode Corporation TRV-88SER, MastersounD: BoX, Dueventi, Compact 845, Evolution 845; North Star Design Blue Diamond
    Sources: AURALiC Aries, Denon HEOS Link, North Star Design: Magnifico, Supremo, Incanto, Intenso, Venti
    Cabling: Wireworld
    TV: Sony XBR-75X940C
  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 4,941
    If you are saying that a CD transport can have an audible influence, why can't a streaming transport?

    I've never personally compared a streamer to a PC head to head to see if I could hear a difference playing back the same source over WiFI, but is it really that hard to accept that there would be one?

    The AURALiC G1 is just another type of transport. Based on the type of product it is, and who they are marketing it to, it would be foolish for them to build in a DSP that artificially alters the sound. If they did have some DSP/EQing options built in, surely they can be disabled in the software by the user. Accuracy is the name of the game, so why would AURALiC want to do something that takes away from that?
    A CD transport sure, pcm over a digital cable sure, the same file, bitrate, over usb to the same DAC, nope not a chance. Impossible.

    Any difference you heard was likely some additional processing taking place, as you noted in the PC, or the streamer is manipulating the file via a dsp of sorts. A dsp that boosts the dB just a decibel or two can be perceived as greater sound quality.

  • DSkipDSkip Posts: 15,122
    edited August 9
    machone wrote: »
    You need a better DAC

    I would like a better DAC but my beef is with the same DAC there is a difference.

    Let's say I get a better DAC and use the Marantz as a transport versus Skips recommended Aries Mini.

    Which one wins?

    I just saw this. There are factors like the cable and file but in most cases the cd transport still wins. A good streamer will dramatically close that gap and add the convenience factor.

    Please note this is from my experience as well as others I trust of using similarly priced cd transports and streamers. If comparing a $1000 transport vs a $3000 streamer it will present a very different scenario.
    audiothesis.com/

    Speakers: Harbeth: 30.2, SHL5+; Usher: Be-10, T-515; Rosso Fiorentino: Elba, Pienza, Certaldo, Fiesole, Volterra; Polk: T50, Signature S15, RTA 15tl, RTi12; Sonner Audio Allegro Unum, Legato Unum, Legato Semis, Legato Duo; Emerald Physics CS-2.8; Klipsch KLF-20
    Preamps: Shuguang S200MK, Dayens Ampino, Parasound P5
    Amps: Shuguang S845MK, Dayens Ampino Monoblocks, Parasound A23
    Integrateds: Triode Corporation TRV-88SER, MastersounD: BoX, Dueventi, Compact 845, Evolution 845; North Star Design Blue Diamond
    Sources: AURALiC Aries, Denon HEOS Link, North Star Design: Magnifico, Supremo, Incanto, Intenso, Venti
    Cabling: Wireworld
    TV: Sony XBR-75X940C
  • jeremymarcinkojeremymarcinko Posts: 3,259
    DSkip wrote: »
    I am. If the files are streamed via wifi and the computer is not hard wired you won't have the same issues. At that point the file is being transmitted without the inherent noise floor of the computer following it. That is what I tried to avoid with my computer build and I thought it was great until I realized I maybe lost a layer of noise but had so much more on top of it.

    I'm not sure why one digital signal is any more or less susceptible than the other? If it's digital then it's digital so I feel as though you are contradicting yourself.

    This I can almost agree with, but clarifying the noise isn’t transferred with the digital file, but from the physical connection from the pc. However IF there is any noise present it would only be a slight static hiss that couldn’t be heard unless your ears were right next to the tweets. So the effect described in your post overstates the issue as this can’t be heard during playback and shouldn’t make the distinction from decent sound to great sound.
    Also this type of noise is noticed with many other sources an individual may be using, so it isn’t specific to the pc. As you stated WiFi eliminates this physical connection so yes streamers can have that advantage. But I will tell you my dedicated laptop has no such issues transferring static over the USB and it’s a straight off the shelf upper tier VAIO from 5 years ago. My tweets are dead silent between tracks.
    Oh, Listen here mister. We got no way of understandin' this world. But we got as much sense of this bird flyin in the sky. Now there is a lot that bird don't know, but it don't change the fact that the world is happening to him all the same. What I am tryin to say is, is that the course of your life, well its changing, and you don't even see it- Forest Bondurant
  • jeremymarcinkojeremymarcinko Posts: 3,259
    Skip please don’t feel like you need to defend yourself regarding your intent. I appreciate you sharing your experiences and my only point was that you were stating streamers in general are superior. But, It would seem your basis for that statement relates your experience with AURALiC in your system and a single PC experience.

    Streamers can come in all levels and it’s possible some of them also may generate some level of static noise on their own. They are computers too after all. So for me it’s the execution of either product that is going make the difference between decent and great because they are in fact only delivering a bit perfect identical file to the asynchronous USB DAC; and again not to be confused with a CD Transport sending 2ch lpcm over a coax to a DAC.
    Oh, Listen here mister. We got no way of understandin' this world. But we got as much sense of this bird flyin in the sky. Now there is a lot that bird don't know, but it don't change the fact that the world is happening to him all the same. What I am tryin to say is, is that the course of your life, well its changing, and you don't even see it- Forest Bondurant
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