The DEMON is coming...

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  • heiney9heiney9 Posts: 24,137
    TForan wrote: »
    heiney9 wrote: »
    Tforan,

    The Veyron and others may not fit your idea of a production car, but they were/are production cars. They were sold to the public and not just kept at the manufacturer.

    Also the numbers listed for the Demon were with drag slicks at the race track (IIRC). Put in on regular tarmac with OEM tires and see how it fares.

    That's all I'm saying, not in any way, shape or form trying to drag this thread down and say the Demon isn't an awesome automotive machine, etc. It is a menacing car.

    To say the other cars aren't production cars is just plain wrong.

    H9

    P.s. The other cars were built for a different purpose and it's hard to compare them all as having the same target, end game.

    OK, with thirty Veyrons produced, lets go with extremely low production .

    The actual number is 450 for accuracy sake
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  • Why even bring up a 2,000,000 dollar super exotic ? Apples and oranges. Let John enjoy his new car. After all, how many people could say their first new car could pull a wheelie ? :)
  • heiney9heiney9 Posts: 24,137
    edited June 2017
    Ummmm,,,, because it's on topic and the Demon is being touted as the fastest production car ever made. Same was said of the Veyron. How is talking about other production cars in a car thread off topic?

    This place has gone batty with over correction. And intense hypersensitivity.

    H9

    Post edited by heiney9 on
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

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  • heiney9 wrote: »
    Ummmm,,,, because it's on topic and the Demon is being touted as the fastest production car ever made. Same was said of the Veyron. How is talking about other production cars in a car thread off topic?

    This place has gone batty with over correction. And intense hypersensitivity.

    H9

    It was touted because it is . Amazing numbers for an 85K car. You could buy 25 Demons for the price of a Bugatti.

    Dodge Challenger SRT Demon 2018 9.65 sec Limited to 3,300 produced
    Bugatti Veyron Super Sport 2011 9.7 sec Limited to 30 produced
  • heiney9heiney9 Posts: 24,137
    edited June 2017
    Ok, Tforan you can have the last word. Tired of going in circles. 9.65 sec ???? what? The Veyron topped out at 254 mph for the open top and 269 mph for the hard top, I'd say that's faster than the Demon. But then it's all open to very wide interpretation of what "fastest" entails?

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

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  • txcoastal1txcoastal1 Posts: 11,226
    In the$2million plus cars....I'm a bigger fan of the Koenigsegg
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  • heiney9 wrote: »
    Ok, Tforan you can have the last word. Tired of going in circles. 9.65 sec ???? what? The Veyron topped out at 254 mph for the open top and 269 mph for the hard top, I'd say that's faster than the Demon. But then it's all open to very wide interpretation of what "fastest" entails?

    H9

    You do realize it was made for the quarter mile , right ? That seems pretty obvious.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fastest_production_cars_by_acceleration

    Enough already.
  • heiney9heiney9 Posts: 24,137
    If that's the case then it doesn't make my list of fastest production cars.

    Enough already
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

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  • GatecrasherGatecrasher Posts: 1,596
    heiny has a point. The Demon might currently hold the crown for the fastest production car in the quarter mile but there are other models that are faster at top end. The new ZR-1 Corvette is supposed to eclipse 200 MPH as do other exotics and high-end sports cars. The Demon is king of the muscle cars though. At least until GM or Ford decide to come out with something with more HP (which is doubtful). You can never tell though. They have in the past.
  • heiney9heiney9 Posts: 24,137
    edited June 2017
    I have to make one more comment. It was never my intent to disparage the Demon. It is what it is......a fantastic American Muscle car and a great achievement for $85K (if anyone can ever buy one for that price).

    But I just wanted to point of the fact that some are calling it the fastest production car ever. It really isn't (IMO) and is designed with a singular thing in mind, to go fast in the 1/4 mile w/slicks at a conditioned drag strip. That's an awful lot of limitations to be called the fastest production car of all time. Some of that is pure marketing, however. I'd like to see it's 1/4 mile time on regular asphalt with OEM tires.

    If John is ever in my area with the Demon, I'll gladly have my face pushed in from a ride in the 1/4 mile. :D
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

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  • mikeyb128mikeyb128 Posts: 2,887
    It might be faster in the 1/4 mile, but what happens after that? I bet they didn't test it past that point. My guess is the veyron takes a corner. The hellcat plows into a wall with those tiny front tires. Hahaha

    Im a car guy through and through, that Hell cat looks deadly. Would love to drive one.
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  • heiney9heiney9 Posts: 24,137
    All I know is Jeremy Clarkson's daily driver is the same daily driver I drive. :p

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

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  • Lord sake's. The quarter mile is the de-facto measurement for acceleration. Of course , there are cars with a higher top speed.

    Mr Heiney, the stock tires that they used are Nitto drag radials, not racing slicks.
  • nooshinjohnnooshinjohn Posts: 22,676
    heiney9 wrote: »
    I have to make one more comment. It was never my intent to disparage the Demon. It is what it is......a fantastic American Muscle car and a great achievement for $85K (if anyone can ever buy one for that price).

    But I just wanted to point of the fact that some are calling it the fastest production car ever. It really isn't (IMO) and is designed with a singular thing in mind, to go fast in the 1/4 mile w/slicks at a conditioned drag strip. That's an awful lot of limitations to be called the fastest production car of all time. Some of that is pure marketing, however. I'd like to see it's 1/4 mile time on regular asphalt with OEM tires.

    If John is ever in my area with the Demon, I'll gladly have my face pushed in from a ride in the 1/4 mile. :D

    The drag slicks are OE tires... The Demon is top dog of the muscle car family tree, but it is not a sports car. The parameters the car was designed for make it the fastest car within those specific targets, but it is not the fastest top speed car. I would like to see what this engine would be capable of in a 3100 pound package with the handling to match.
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  • Demon motor in aerodynamic body weighing 3000 lbs with a 2.62 gear out of the Hellcat and you would be well into the 200s. The drag radials are "limited" to 167. :)
  • polrbehrpolrbehr Posts: 2,572
    gfong wrote: »
    Be happy for this cat,, (get it)

    Hell, it's his first NEW car, he is buying it as an investment and he is not going to drive it or use it as a car. I have some records like that! :)

    I have to ask why then is he getting a vanity plate that says UWILLUZ ?
    Not exactly keeping with the spirit of an investment car when you are practically daring people to race you. I mean it's his money and his car, but color me confused anyway.


    So, are you willing to put forth a little effort or are you happy sitting in your skeptical poo pile?


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  • JstasJstas Posts: 14,180
    Y'all make me laugh.

    First, the Demon is NOT the "first factory car that could do wheels stands". That was the '64 Ford Thunderbolt with it's altered wheel base embarrassing Dodge Ram Chargers at the drag strip regularly. In fact, it was so successful that half way through '64 Dodge trotted out their own altereds to compete but still couldn't get past the Thunderbolt and it's mountain of a 7.0L V8. Dodge didn't regain anything until the 426 HEMI was used but by that time Ford had moved on to other classes to clean up in with the Mustang CJ and Mustang SCJ.

    Secondly, the car in the guise that can do the wheels stands is not street legal. Hence the reason you need a specific key to "unlock the magic".

    Thirdly (is that even a word?), it's not the fastest production car in regards to top speed. Or 1/4 mile for that matter.

    The 2017 Ford GT will run through a 1/4 mile at around 9.4 seconds at a bit over 150 MPH. The Demon is at least .2 seconds slower and 10+ MPH down on trap speed.

    On top of that, the real king of production drag race cars is the current Ford Mustang Cobra Jet with it's mid-8 second 1/4 mile time AND 8.50 index certification off the showroom floor by the NHRA is the true king of the drag strip and the fastest factory drag car in street classes. Despite the Demon.

    Also, the Demon is not banned by the NHRA. That's baloney. The only thing that has happened is that the Demon lacks the safety gear required to run the times it's supposed to run. Therefore, the Demon, even at the 808 horsepower pump gas level runs too fast to be able to compete as is. If, however, you get a certified roll cage installed and get yourself the appropriate fire gear and helmet, you pass tech, you run all day. You'll probably get stuck in an Outlaw class when the Demon will not be competitive at all (meaning it won't win a single race) but you'll be able to race. This fact alone makes me fear that the majority of these will not be raced at a sanctioned track but rather in illicit street races where this thing has an enormous potential to turn into a 4,000 pound idiot missile being "piloted" by an idiot who's really just along for ride as they careen through the public endangering everything from sensibilities to safety of the general public.

    Another thing, there is no magic horsepower number that will make a car reach a 9 second quarter mile. A 3500 pound car needs about 850 horsepower to get into the 9's. You can fudge it a bit with short gearing but that's a real number. But shave 1000 pounds off that car and you can get into the 9's with 250 less horsepower, despite gearing. Add 1000 pounds and you'll need over 1000 horsepower. It's about power to weight ratio. That's it. It's physics, not magic.

    The Demon is not a collector's item for many reasons already mentioned. Hype does not make a collector's car alone. Will it be worth something? Yeah, it'll hold value well enough, maybe increase too. But if the Hellcat is any indication, it's going to drop 35% plus in value in the first 3 years. Then again, the Hellcats aren't old enough to start seeing real appreciation and the more they make, the farther off that corner turning is. I'm not trying to dump on parades here, I'm just being honest with realistic info. As a counter point, the Mustang CJ is only made in 50-100 car increments and they don't even give it a VIN so you can't register it on the road without getting a VIN issued. This ensures that the buying process vets ownership by default. At 50-100 per year out of hundreds of thousands of Mustangs, that is a collector's item and many that aren't raced anymore end up in collections. The Mustang CJ has been running in AA/S class for Stock Eliminator in the NHRA since 2008. It was only running 11 second 1/4 miles then but by 2010, output could be bumped up to a "conservative" 475 and the car was run in A/SA class but in the high 10's easily when it should be in the mid-11's. So yeah, the car that can beat the Demon was available in 2012 when power levels went north of 600 horsepower with 1/4 mile times in the high 9 range from a 3200 pound car.

    I'm not even going to go into what GM is doing with the COPO Camaros as of late but they aren't as fast as the Mustang but still faster than anything Dodge has put on the track in the last 60 years.

    Lastly, there is already debate about how smart it is to put something like this in the hands of the general public. Being as I've actually driven a car that ran mid-9 second 1/4 miles on drag radials and we were sandbagging while doing it (car made 940 to wheels and at 2800 pounds was good for mid 8's), the Demon is not something that should be put in the hands of a regular pleb. Especially since it's really only bench racers that are buying them. That kind of acceleration is outright violent and very hard to control. It takes a good amount of experience to do it well too. I was called everything from female gender body parts to a liberal for saying so too.

    Sometimes y'all are so out of touch it's sad, really.
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  • mrbironmrbiron Posts: 5,312
    What is the "Demon Pack" that i keep seeing referenced?

    And how man cup holders does this thing come with!?
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  • lightman1lightman1 Posts: 10,645
    Shut up, John.....
  • JstasJstas Posts: 14,180
    lightman1 wrote: »
    Shut up, John.....

    Your mom.
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  • gudnoyezgudnoyez Posts: 7,396
    Don't get me wrong the Demon is a beast and a nice machine, put it up against an Audi R8 or a 911, sure the Demon might get a jump on the 1/4 mile after that the Audi and the Porsche will zip right on by. There was a stretch of autobahn between Schweinfurt and Frankfurt back in the 80s and 90s where all the GI's would bring there Cuda's, GTO's, Shelby's, Camaro's, Trans Am's you name it the results were generally the same a fast start on the 1/4 only to fall prey to the Audi, Porsche's, and BMW's.

    The Germans sure did like American Muscle cars and a few GI's made lots of money selling their cars to them. As an investment the Demon would be fine and stateside a awesome automobile to own, but for shear speed it wouldn't be a match against the German sports cars. I'm sure a few Europeans are drooling over the Demon as a collectors item.
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  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 25,394
    mrbiron wrote: »
    What is the "Demon Pack" that i keep seeing referenced?

    And how man cup holders does this thing come with!?

    ... and does it have on-board Bluetooth and Sirius/XM?

    :)

    I've gotta be honest, I'd find the Demon to be much more interesting if anyone but FCA were responsible for it! :(

  • vmaxervmaxer Posts: 4,693
    @Jstas

    What engine is in the Mustang you speak of??

    Just curious as we make parts for several of them.
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  • Jstas wrote: »
    Y'all make me laugh.

    First, the Demon is NOT the "first factory car that could do wheels stands". That was the '64 Ford Thunderbolt with it's altered wheel base embarrassing Dodge Ram Chargers at the drag strip regularly. In fact, it was so successful that half way through '64 Dodge trotted out their own altereds to compete but still couldn't get past the Thunderbolt and it's mountain of a 7.0L V8. Dodge didn't regain anything until the 426 HEMI was used but by that time Ford had moved on to other classes to clean up in with the Mustang CJ and Mustang SCJ.

    Secondly, the car in the guise that can do the wheels stands is not street legal. Hence the reason you need a specific key to "unlock the magic".

    Thirdly (is that even a word?), it's not the fastest production car in regards to top speed. Or 1/4 mile for that matter.

    The 2017 Ford GT will run through a 1/4 mile at around 9.4 seconds at a bit over 150 MPH. The Demon is at least .2 seconds slower and 10+ MPH down on trap speed.

    On top of that, the real king of production drag race cars is the current Ford Mustang Cobra Jet with it's mid-8 second 1/4 mile time AND 8.50 index certification off the showroom floor by the NHRA is the true king of the drag strip and the fastest factory drag car in street classes. Despite the Demon.

    Also, the Demon is not banned by the NHRA. That's baloney. The only thing that has happened is that the Demon lacks the safety gear required to run the times it's supposed to run. Therefore, the Demon, even at the 808 horsepower pump gas level runs too fast to be able to compete as is. If, however, you get a certified roll cage installed and get yourself the appropriate fire gear and helmet, you pass tech, you run all day. You'll probably get stuck in an Outlaw class when the Demon will not be competitive at all (meaning it won't win a single race) but you'll be able to race. This fact alone makes me fear that the majority of these will not be raced at a sanctioned track but rather in illicit street races where this thing has an enormous potential to turn into a 4,000 pound idiot missile being "piloted" by an idiot who's really just along for ride as they careen through the public endangering everything from sensibilities to safety of the general public.

    Another thing, there is no magic horsepower number that will make a car reach a 9 second quarter mile. A 3500 pound car needs about 850 horsepower to get into the 9's. You can fudge it a bit with short gearing but that's a real number. But shave 1000 pounds off that car and you can get into the 9's with 250 less horsepower, despite gearing. Add 1000 pounds and you'll need over 1000 horsepower. It's about power to weight ratio. That's it. It's physics, not magic.

    The Demon is not a collector's item for many reasons already mentioned. Hype does not make a collector's car alone. Will it be worth something? Yeah, it'll hold value well enough, maybe increase too. But if the Hellcat is any indication, it's going to drop 35% plus in value in the first 3 years. Then again, the Hellcats aren't old enough to start seeing real appreciation and the more they make, the farther off that corner turning is. I'm not trying to dump on parades here, I'm just being honest with realistic info. As a counter point, the Mustang CJ is only made in 50-100 car increments and they don't even give it a VIN so you can't register it on the road without getting a VIN issued. This ensures that the buying process vets ownership by default. At 50-100 per year out of hundreds of thousands of Mustangs, that is a collector's item and many that aren't raced anymore end up in collections. The Mustang CJ has been running in AA/S class for Stock Eliminator in the NHRA since 2008. It was only running 11 second 1/4 miles then but by 2010, output could be bumped up to a "conservative" 475 and the car was run in A/SA class but in the high 10's easily when it should be in the mid-11's. So yeah, the car that can beat the Demon was available in 2012 when power levels went north of 600 horsepower with 1/4 mile times in the high 9 range from a 3200 pound car.

    I'm not even going to go into what GM is doing with the COPO Camaros as of late but they aren't as fast as the Mustang but still faster tha


    Lastly, there is already debate about how smart it is to put something like this in the hands of the general public. Being as I've actually driven a car that ran mid-9 second 1/4 miles on drag radials and we were sandbagging while doing it (car made 940 to wheels and at 2800 pounds was good for mid 8's), the Demon is not something that should be put in the hands of a regular pleb. Especially since it's really only bench racers that are buying them. That kind of acceleration is outright violent and very hard to control. It takes a good amount of experience to do it well too. I was called everything from female gender body parts to a liberal for saying so too.

    Sometimes y'all are so out of touch it's sad, really.

    They made 100 Thunderbolts and it was barely streetable. And not nearly as fast.

    The Thunderbolt, as tested with a four-speed transmission at Lions Drag Strip in November 1963, ran a quarter mile of 11.61 seconds at 124.8 mph

    You could go get groceries in the Demon.
  • GatecrasherGatecrasher Posts: 1,596
    Yeah there's really no comparing a 60's muscle car to a modern one. Suspension, engine, everything have come a long way. But since nooshinjohn is supposedly buying this car as an investment and claims he is only going to put 500 miles on it, I highly doubt it will be seeing much thrashing at the local dragstrip. I had a 9 second drag car and that is mighty fast. Easy to have something go wrong when you run that fast.
  • JstasJstas Posts: 14,180
    Really?

    What kind of car was it?
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  • NOT a Demom, but this is the color.qdz18n63iq78.jpg

    The Demon looks like this...5o9jd8bdno36.jpg


    Great color ! Much more subtle than "Arrest me red".
  • polkfarmboypolkfarmboy Posts: 5,724
    Look like a 12k car to me. If some one was on the side of the road they would not bat an eyelid
  • txcoastal1txcoastal1 Posts: 11,226
    You gonna put some spinners on the wheels
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