Started the surgery on the 2.3TLs -plus a wiring question

waxmanwaxman Posts: 119
edited January 2016 in Vintage Speakers
Started the work tonight on my 2.3TL's- and pretty quickly made a mistake in my note taking but already saved by a sticky thread. :)

Items I'm doing:
1. secure magnets on drivers with loctite power grab all purpose
2. Drill and install set of Larry's Rings (Thanks Larry!)
3. Replace tweeters with 6 new RDO 198s I received last month
4. Install refreshed crossovers that David Shirly / DHS speaker service rebuilt for me that look awesome and should sound even better :)

So-- I was meticulous about labeling the speakers and labeling the wiring harness, but I made a mistake on the right speaker. I assumed the wires were keyed like the tweeters and so I did not note which color wire (black or white) went to the 'red dot' terminal on the drivers. The 'red dot' being placed on the left terminal when looking at the speaker from the front-- see pictures below. I caught my mistake 2 drivers in on the left speaker and started then noting the wire position.

What I recorded on the left speaker is that the of the two top drivers on the column of four drivers were wired black wire-to-red-dot-terminal (and therefore white wire to the right terminal). On the column of only 2 drivers, both had the blue wire going to the red dot/left and the green wire going to the right terminal. I did not capture wiring position of the bottom two drivers of the 4-driver column.



Can someone please confirm that:
1. On the left speaker, the bottom two drivers of the 4 driver column should be wired black wire to red dot/left terminal? Or does one or two of these reverse polarity for the SDA effect?
2. On right speaker, the 4 drivers column should all be wired black-wire-to-red dot/left terminal?
3. On right speaker, that the 2 drivers column should be wired blue wire-to-red dot/left terminal?


I found these schematics in the sticky section, think they answer my questions.
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Thanks for your help. Feel pretty foolish given how much time I've planned this work.

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Post edited by waxman on
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Comments

  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 40,995
    Black or blue are always positive.
    White or green are always negative.

    That said, the diagram above for the right channel has the color positions reversed. Black or blue will be on the left side of the driver. White or green on the right side as you look at the speaker.

    Do yourself a huge favor, install Blackhole 5 while you have them open.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


  • waxmanwaxman Posts: 119
    F1nut wrote: »
    Black or blue are always positive.
    White or green are always negative.

    That said, the diagram above for the right channel has the color positions reversed. Black or blue will be on the left side of the driver. White or green on the right side as you look at the speaker

    So-- that's a pretty serious error in the schematics then. What it lists for the left channel is what I saw when I finally remembered to start taking notes, but I have zero baseline for the right channel, and now I have the most senior member of the forum disagreeing with engineering drawings as drawn by Rick Schimpf and signed by both a QA and Engineering approver back in 1989. Hard to swallow that either of you are wrong.
  • westmassguywestmassguy Posts: 6,255
    That's odd. Looks like they just flipped the image, and re-typed everything.
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  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 40,995
    waxman wrote: »
    So-- that's a pretty serious error in the schematics then. What it lists for the left channel is what I saw when I finally remembered to start taking notes, but I have zero baseline for the right channel, and now I have the most senior member of the forum disagreeing with engineering drawings as drawn by Rick Schimpf and signed by both a QA and Engineering approver back in 1989. Hard to swallow that either of you are wrong.

    Think about it. The red dot is on what side of a properly installed driver? The drawings for the 2B and 1.2TL right channel are the same way. In the end the position marked on the drawings doesn't matter, what color is positive or negative does.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


  • MrBuhlMrBuhl Posts: 2,313
    Looking good man - those big boys certainly are a big project!
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  • Mike ReeterMike Reeter Posts: 3,380
    Looking good Waxman, do you have a pair of SRS hooked up now? Curious as to how the modded 2.3TL's will compare?
    SDA SRS 2.3TL's/SDA SRS 3.1TL's/SDA CRS+4.1TL's and some other stuff
  • waxmanwaxman Posts: 119
    Looking good Waxman, do you have a pair of SRS hooked up now? Curious as to how the modded 2.3TL's will compare?

    Hi Mike, I've got a set of stock SRS 2's with the 1986 config- blade/blade interconnect that are in service until my 2.3TL's are ready to sing. I'm curious too- I expect there to be a lot of difference but won't be able to necessarily attribute them to any one change- the new RDO198s, Larry's rings, rebuilt crossovers with sonic caps, and new (to me) amp in bi-amp configuration delivering more power (sunfire in place of my carver tfm35) all are incrementally better than the SRS 2's in all areas, so hopefully the bump will be noticeable. If not, I spent a lot of money and time for nothin' :smile:
  • Mike ReeterMike Reeter Posts: 3,380
    Your efforts and your investment will be rewarded, no doubt. Just be patient with the break-in process, the sound will be all over the place for some time. N'joy!

    SDA SRS 2.3TL's/SDA SRS 3.1TL's/SDA CRS+4.1TL's and some other stuff
  • machonemachone Posts: 1,079
    Good work Waxman. I can tell you are excited.
    By coincidence I am going to pick up my 2.3TL's this Sunday so I know how you feel.
    -Already ordered Larry's rings and 198 tweeters (thanks Larry).
    -Got plenty of Dynamat Extreme and Powergrab for the drivers and any leaks in the cabinets.
    -Got plenty of Armacell for gaskets.
    -I plan to secure the end cap hardware with a gasket, flatwasher and lockwasher (thanks F1).
    -Later I plan to swap out the x-overs with a set of gimpods boards with all new components.
    -I plan to change the sub-base inductor to a lower DCR.
    -While I am inside I plan to measure the wiring harness and document for future upgrade.
    -I plan to upgrade the binding posts, IC cable and connectors.
    -At some time I will upgrade the spikes.
    Down the rabbit hole I go.
    Have fun! I know I am :)
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  • dkfreebirddkfreebird Posts: 1,070
    Mike is spot on on his comment.I have been meaning to comment on my breaking in on my 1.2tl's and they are all over the place on sound.The 2.3tl's I have sound so much better at this point because they are well broken in and have the better gear on them.Patience is the key.
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  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 40,995
    machone wrote: »
    -Got plenty of Armacell for gaskets.

    You can cross that one off your list.

    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


  • waxmanwaxman Posts: 119
    F1nut wrote: »
    Think about it. The red dot is on what side of a properly installed driver? The drawings for the 2B and 1.2TL right channel are the same way. In the end the position marked on the drawings doesn't matter, what color is positive or negative does.

    Hi F1nut, I appreciate your help. From your comment, you believe the right thing to do is to put the black wire on the red dot (left terminal when looking from top) for both the right and left channel drivers, end of story. That's my current course of action.

    The think about it part- well, I did. Perhaps I was overthinking it, but the speaker doesn't determine the polarity of the signal, that's coming from the posts/crossover, so the way I read the schematic is that the black is still carrying the + polarity and the white is carrying the - polarity, and that you happen to connect them on swapped sides of the drivers (which carries no intrinsic charge) depending on if the driver is on the left vs. the right channel. If this was the case, you and the schematic would both be right- black wire is always +, etc.

    My request to dkfreebird or machone when you get yours- if you have few minutes, I'd appreciate it if you'd pull a driver on your 4-stack from the right channel to confirm that the black wire does in fact go to the red dot/left terminal. That validation combined with F1Nut's recommendation would give me a warm fuzzy :)
  • machonemachone Posts: 1,079
    F1,
    It's low on the priority list. Good to have around if needed.
    Mojo Audio Joule v5>>Quantum Byte w/JRiver 24 and Fidelizer>> Starlight 7 USB >> Mojo Audio Mystique v2 SE>>ModWright SWL 9.0 SE Signature>>Hafler DH-500 Amp+ (Musical Concepts PA-6 Elite Mod)>>
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    Yamaha TX-540 Tuner...Sony BDP-S570

    Separate subpanel with four dedicated 20 amp circuits.
    1. Amplification 2. Analog 3. Digital 4. Video

    "All THAT IS LOST FROM THE SOURCE IS LOST FOREVER"
  • dkfreebirddkfreebird Posts: 1,070
    I will pull mine if you like but I can tell you I hooked mine up like f1 said black wire to positive just like I marked them before I sent my xovers off for upgrades.Whether it was the left or right on he pics on the page you are talking about I never looked at the pics just the color of wire to the positive terminal.
    2 Channel
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  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 40,995
    Waxman, I just had mine open over the weekend. The black wire goes to the red dot/left terminal in both speakers.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


  • nooshinjohnnooshinjohn Posts: 19,277
    F1nut wrote: »
    machone wrote: »
    -Got plenty of Armacell for gaskets.

    You can cross that one off your list.

    Gotta disagree Mr. President, Armacel is the best stuff going for replacing the stock gaskets.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, TriangleArt Reference SE with Pass Labs Xono Phono Preamp, Walker Precision Motor Drive, ClearAudio Goldfinger Diamond v2 cartridge and Origin Conquerer Mk3c tonearm, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Pass Labs X0.2 three chassis preamp, PS Audio PerfectWave DAC MkII, Pioneer Elite SC-65, Oppo UDP-205 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk audio AB700/800 "in-wall" surrounds.

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  • waxmanwaxman Posts: 119
    F1nut wrote: »
    Waxman, I just had mine open over the weekend. The black wire goes to the red dot/left terminal in both speakers.

    understood- case closed. thank you!
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 40,995
    F1nut wrote: »
    machone wrote: »
    -Got plenty of Armacell for gaskets.

    You can cross that one off your list.

    Gotta disagree Mr. President, Armacel is the best stuff going for replacing the stock gaskets.

    IF they are damaged and need replacing.

    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


  • waxmanwaxman Posts: 119
    Another question though- I drilled and installed the ring for the passive radiator, and the threaded barrels of the rings protrude from the surface of the lip a little bit. That's going to defeat the purpose of the rings because I won't be able to crank down on the screws to get a nice airtight seal between the radiator and the lip. Suggestions? Common?5u1gl2m2ryz3.jpg
    tz29zoyfwf0c.jpg



    For comparison, on the driver rings the barrels are still recessed in the lip so I will be able to easily get the airtight seal.
    AA.JPG 96.2K
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  • waxmanwaxman Posts: 119
    I'll ask this question on the ring thread so others can chime in.
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 40,995
    Yes, that will be a problem. I had that happen to a job I was doing, but it wasn't a pair of 2.3TL's. Anyway, I used my Dremel with a cut off wheel to remove the excess. Do it with the ring out of the cabinet.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


  • waxmanwaxman Posts: 119
    F1nut- on the third driver down in the 4-stack, wiring looks like this - white/white on one side and white/black on the other. I am I correct is assuming the white/black pair go to the left/red dot side of the driver? thanks!dv5z6d0pcdll.jpg
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 40,995
    Yes, as indicated by the small piece of black tape wrapped around just below the faston.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


  • PolkieManPolkieMan Posts: 2,446
    I found this discussion quite interesting! Will the battery test confirm that the drivers are hooked up correctly?
    POLK SDA 2.3 TLS BOUGHT NEW IN 1990, Gimpod/Sonic Caps/Mills RDO-198
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  • machonemachone Posts: 1,079
    I believe that would be yes.
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    Yamaha TX-540 Tuner...Sony BDP-S570

    Separate subpanel with four dedicated 20 amp circuits.
    1. Amplification 2. Analog 3. Digital 4. Video

    "All THAT IS LOST FROM THE SOURCE IS LOST FOREVER"
  • machonemachone Posts: 1,079
    What is the thread size for the feet/spikes on a 2.3TL?

    I am going on a road trip tomorrow to pick up my 2.3TL's. From looking at photos I see that they have spikes installed. The button feet are probably long lost and I was wondering what the thread size is so I can fabricate something to use to help move them around until I find the best location and reinstall spikes.

    Thanks
    Mojo Audio Joule v5>>Quantum Byte w/JRiver 24 and Fidelizer>> Starlight 7 USB >> Mojo Audio Mystique v2 SE>>ModWright SWL 9.0 SE Signature>>Hafler DH-500 Amp+ (Musical Concepts PA-6 Elite Mod)>>
    SRS 2.3TL (Fully Modified)...SDA-1A (Fully Modified with Dimensional Tweeter Delete)
    1KVA Dreadnought
    Marantz SA 8005
    Pioneer PLX-1000 Turntable - Shure SC35C/N35X - V15III/VN35HE
    Yamaha TX-540 Tuner...Sony BDP-S570

    Separate subpanel with four dedicated 20 amp circuits.
    1. Amplification 2. Analog 3. Digital 4. Video

    "All THAT IS LOST FROM THE SOURCE IS LOST FOREVER"
  • agfrostagfrost Posts: 2,229
    Someone should corroborate, but I believe all vintage Polks use 1/4-20 threading on feet/spikes.
    Jay
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  • waxmanwaxman Posts: 119
    I can confirm my 2.3TL's are 1/4 -20
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 40,995
    Yep, 1/4-20
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


  • machonemachone Posts: 1,079
    Thanks guys
    Mojo Audio Joule v5>>Quantum Byte w/JRiver 24 and Fidelizer>> Starlight 7 USB >> Mojo Audio Mystique v2 SE>>ModWright SWL 9.0 SE Signature>>Hafler DH-500 Amp+ (Musical Concepts PA-6 Elite Mod)>>
    SRS 2.3TL (Fully Modified)...SDA-1A (Fully Modified with Dimensional Tweeter Delete)
    1KVA Dreadnought
    Marantz SA 8005
    Pioneer PLX-1000 Turntable - Shure SC35C/N35X - V15III/VN35HE
    Yamaha TX-540 Tuner...Sony BDP-S570

    Separate subpanel with four dedicated 20 amp circuits.
    1. Amplification 2. Analog 3. Digital 4. Video

    "All THAT IS LOST FROM THE SOURCE IS LOST FOREVER"
«13
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