Started the surgery on the 2.3TLs -plus a wiring question
waxman
Posts: 124
Started the work tonight on my 2.3TL's- and pretty quickly made a mistake in my note taking but already saved by a sticky thread. 
Items I'm doing:
1. secure magnets on drivers with loctite power grab all purpose
2. Drill and install set of Larry's Rings (Thanks Larry!)
3. Replace tweeters with 6 new RDO 198s I received last month
4. Install refreshed crossovers that David Shirly / DHS speaker service rebuilt for me that look awesome and should sound even better
So-- I was meticulous about labeling the speakers and labeling the wiring harness, but I made a mistake on the right speaker. I assumed the wires were keyed like the tweeters and so I did not note which color wire (black or white) went to the 'red dot' terminal on the drivers. The 'red dot' being placed on the left terminal when looking at the speaker from the front-- see pictures below. I caught my mistake 2 drivers in on the left speaker and started then noting the wire position.
What I recorded on the left speaker is that the of the two top drivers on the column of four drivers were wired black wire-to-red-dot-terminal (and therefore white wire to the right terminal). On the column of only 2 drivers, both had the blue wire going to the red dot/left and the green wire going to the right terminal. I did not capture wiring position of the bottom two drivers of the 4-driver column.
Can someone please confirm that:
1. On the left speaker, the bottom two drivers of the 4 driver column should be wired black wire to red dot/left terminal? Or does one or two of these reverse polarity for the SDA effect?
2. On right speaker, the 4 drivers column should all be wired black-wire-to-red dot/left terminal?
3. On right speaker, that the 2 drivers column should be wired blue wire-to-red dot/left terminal?
I found these schematics in the sticky section, think they answer my questions.
Thanks for your help. Feel pretty foolish given how much time I've planned this work.
Items I'm doing:
1. secure magnets on drivers with loctite power grab all purpose
2. Drill and install set of Larry's Rings (Thanks Larry!)
3. Replace tweeters with 6 new RDO 198s I received last month
4. Install refreshed crossovers that David Shirly / DHS speaker service rebuilt for me that look awesome and should sound even better
So-- I was meticulous about labeling the speakers and labeling the wiring harness, but I made a mistake on the right speaker. I assumed the wires were keyed like the tweeters and so I did not note which color wire (black or white) went to the 'red dot' terminal on the drivers. The 'red dot' being placed on the left terminal when looking at the speaker from the front-- see pictures below. I caught my mistake 2 drivers in on the left speaker and started then noting the wire position.
What I recorded on the left speaker is that the of the two top drivers on the column of four drivers were wired black wire-to-red-dot-terminal (and therefore white wire to the right terminal). On the column of only 2 drivers, both had the blue wire going to the red dot/left and the green wire going to the right terminal. I did not capture wiring position of the bottom two drivers of the 4-driver column.
Can someone please confirm that:
1. On the left speaker, the bottom two drivers of the 4 driver column should be wired black wire to red dot/left terminal? Or does one or two of these reverse polarity for the SDA effect?
2. On right speaker, the 4 drivers column should all be wired black-wire-to-red dot/left terminal?
3. On right speaker, that the 2 drivers column should be wired blue wire-to-red dot/left terminal?
I found these schematics in the sticky section, think they answer my questions.
Thanks for your help. Feel pretty foolish given how much time I've planned this work.
Post edited by waxman on
Comments
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Black or blue are always positive.
White or green are always negative.
That said, the diagram above for the right channel has the color positions reversed. Black or blue will be on the left side of the driver. White or green on the right side as you look at the speaker.
Do yourself a huge favor, install Blackhole 5 while you have them open.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Black or blue are always positive.
White or green are always negative.
That said, the diagram above for the right channel has the color positions reversed. Black or blue will be on the left side of the driver. White or green on the right side as you look at the speaker
So-- that's a pretty serious error in the schematics then. What it lists for the left channel is what I saw when I finally remembered to start taking notes, but I have zero baseline for the right channel, and now I have the most senior member of the forum disagreeing with engineering drawings as drawn by Rick Schimpf and signed by both a QA and Engineering approver back in 1989. Hard to swallow that either of you are wrong. -
That's odd. Looks like they just flipped the image, and re-typed everything.Home Theater/2 Channel:
Front: SDA-2ATL forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/143984/my-2as-finally-finished-almost/p1
Center: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/150760/my-center-channel-project/p1
Surrounds & Rears: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/151647/my-surround-project/p1
Sonicaps, Mills, RDO-194s-198s, Dynamat, Hurricane Nuts, Blackhole5
Pioneer Elite VSX-72TXV, Carver PM-600, SVS PB2-Plus Subwoofer
dhsspeakerservice.com/ -
So-- that's a pretty serious error in the schematics then. What it lists for the left channel is what I saw when I finally remembered to start taking notes, but I have zero baseline for the right channel, and now I have the most senior member of the forum disagreeing with engineering drawings as drawn by Rick Schimpf and signed by both a QA and Engineering approver back in 1989. Hard to swallow that either of you are wrong.
Think about it. The red dot is on what side of a properly installed driver? The drawings for the 2B and 1.2TL right channel are the same way. In the end the position marked on the drawings doesn't matter, what color is positive or negative does.
Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Looking good man - those big boys certainly are a big project!VA HT HK AVR20II, Sony S9000ES CD/DVD/SACD, Polk Audio RC80i / Polk Audio CSi3, 60" Panasonic Plasma, Nordost / Signal Cable A2 / Wireworld / Pangea / Magic Power
VA 2 Channel Focal Electra 926 speakers, Pass Labs X150.5 Amp, Eastern Electric MiniMax Preamp (Tutay mods), Eastern Electric Minimax CDP (Scott Nixon mods), Music Hall mmf 5.1 Turntable, Parks Audio Budgie Phono Pre , Audioengine B1 streamer, MIT S3 IC's / MIT Shotgun S3 Speaker Cables / PS Audio power cables
Noggin Schiit Valhalla, Pangea, Phillips Fidelio X1, Polk UF8000
Polk SDA1c modded
Polk CRS+ 4.1TL modded (need veneer)
Polk SDA2BTL (fully modded)
A/L 1000VA Dreadnought Canare 4s11 SDA cable
SACD Marantz DV8300
Sony S9000ES CD/DVD/SACD
Yamaha YP-D6
Soundcraftsmen PCR800
Audible Illusions L1 Preamp
Vincent MFA based Cocci Tube Preamp
Pho-700 Phono Pre
Signal Cable Silver Resolution IC's -
Looking good Waxman, do you have a pair of SRS hooked up now? Curious as to how the modded 2.3TL's will compare?
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Mike Reeter wrote: »Looking good Waxman, do you have a pair of SRS hooked up now? Curious as to how the modded 2.3TL's will compare?
Hi Mike, I've got a set of stock SRS 2's with the 1986 config- blade/blade interconnect that are in service until my 2.3TL's are ready to sing. I'm curious too- I expect there to be a lot of difference but won't be able to necessarily attribute them to any one change- the new RDO198s, Larry's rings, rebuilt crossovers with sonic caps, and new (to me) amp in bi-amp configuration delivering more power (sunfire in place of my carver tfm35) all are incrementally better than the SRS 2's in all areas, so hopefully the bump will be noticeable. If not, I spent a lot of money and time for nothin'
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Your efforts and your investment will be rewarded, no doubt. Just be patient with the break-in process, the sound will be all over the place for some time. N'joy!
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Good work Waxman. I can tell you are excited.
By coincidence I am going to pick up my 2.3TL's this Sunday so I know how you feel.
-Already ordered Larry's rings and 198 tweeters (thanks Larry).
-Got plenty of Dynamat Extreme and Powergrab for the drivers and any leaks in the cabinets.
-Got plenty of Armacell for gaskets.
-I plan to secure the end cap hardware with a gasket, flatwasher and lockwasher (thanks F1).
-Later I plan to swap out the x-overs with a set of gimpods boards with all new components.
-I plan to change the sub-base inductor to a lower DCR.
-While I am inside I plan to measure the wiring harness and document for future upgrade.
-I plan to upgrade the binding posts, IC cable and connectors.
-At some time I will upgrade the spikes.
Down the rabbit hole I go.
Have fun! I know I am Mojo Audio Illuminati v3>>Quantum Byte w/LMS>>Rpi/PiCoreplayer>> Starlight 7 USB >> Mojo Audio Mystique v2 SE>>ModWright SWL 9.0 SE Signature>>Hafler DH-500 Amp+ (Musical Concepts Fully Modded)>>
SRS 2.3TL (Fully Modded)...Velodyne Optimum 8 subwoofer
1KVA Dreadnought
Marantz SA 8005
Pioneer PLX-1000 Turntable - Shure SC35C/N35X - V15III/VN35HE
Yamaha TX-540 Tuner...Sony BDP-S570
Sony PS4
Separate subpanel with four dedicated 20 amp circuits.
1. Amplification 2. Analog 3. Digital 4. Video
"All THAT IS LOST FROM THE SOURCE IS LOST FOREVER" -
Mike is spot on on his comment.I have been meaning to comment on my breaking in on my 1.2tl's and they are all over the place on sound.The 2.3tl's I have sound so much better at this point because they are well broken in and have the better gear on them.Patience is the key.2 Channel
Polk 1.2tl's Modded with dreadnought
Musical Fidelity M6Si
North Star Intenso Dac
Auralic Aries Mini Streamer
Oppo 103
Pangea PC
Wireworld Equinox 7 interconnects
Wireworld Equinox 7 Speaker Cables and Jumpers
Backups 2.3tl, Crs+ pin/blade with stands.Monitor 5 peerless,Monitor 4 peerless,Polk R200,McCormack Dna 0.5 Deluxe McCormack Dna 1,Dared Sl 2000A,Dayens Ampino Rogue Magnum 66 pre -
Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Think about it. The red dot is on what side of a properly installed driver? The drawings for the 2B and 1.2TL right channel are the same way. In the end the position marked on the drawings doesn't matter, what color is positive or negative does.
Hi F1nut, I appreciate your help. From your comment, you believe the right thing to do is to put the black wire on the red dot (left terminal when looking from top) for both the right and left channel drivers, end of story. That's my current course of action.
The think about it part- well, I did. Perhaps I was overthinking it, but the speaker doesn't determine the polarity of the signal, that's coming from the posts/crossover, so the way I read the schematic is that the black is still carrying the + polarity and the white is carrying the - polarity, and that you happen to connect them on swapped sides of the drivers (which carries no intrinsic charge) depending on if the driver is on the left vs. the right channel. If this was the case, you and the schematic would both be right- black wire is always +, etc.
My request to dkfreebird or machone when you get yours- if you have few minutes, I'd appreciate it if you'd pull a driver on your 4-stack from the right channel to confirm that the black wire does in fact go to the red dot/left terminal. That validation combined with F1Nut's recommendation would give me a warm fuzzy -
F1,
It's low on the priority list. Good to have around if needed.Mojo Audio Illuminati v3>>Quantum Byte w/LMS>>Rpi/PiCoreplayer>> Starlight 7 USB >> Mojo Audio Mystique v2 SE>>ModWright SWL 9.0 SE Signature>>Hafler DH-500 Amp+ (Musical Concepts Fully Modded)>>
SRS 2.3TL (Fully Modded)...Velodyne Optimum 8 subwoofer
1KVA Dreadnought
Marantz SA 8005
Pioneer PLX-1000 Turntable - Shure SC35C/N35X - V15III/VN35HE
Yamaha TX-540 Tuner...Sony BDP-S570
Sony PS4
Separate subpanel with four dedicated 20 amp circuits.
1. Amplification 2. Analog 3. Digital 4. Video
"All THAT IS LOST FROM THE SOURCE IS LOST FOREVER" -
I will pull mine if you like but I can tell you I hooked mine up like f1 said black wire to positive just like I marked them before I sent my xovers off for upgrades.Whether it was the left or right on he pics on the page you are talking about I never looked at the pics just the color of wire to the positive terminal.2 Channel
Polk 1.2tl's Modded with dreadnought
Musical Fidelity M6Si
North Star Intenso Dac
Auralic Aries Mini Streamer
Oppo 103
Pangea PC
Wireworld Equinox 7 interconnects
Wireworld Equinox 7 Speaker Cables and Jumpers
Backups 2.3tl, Crs+ pin/blade with stands.Monitor 5 peerless,Monitor 4 peerless,Polk R200,McCormack Dna 0.5 Deluxe McCormack Dna 1,Dared Sl 2000A,Dayens Ampino Rogue Magnum 66 pre -
Waxman, I just had mine open over the weekend. The black wire goes to the red dot/left terminal in both speakers.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Gotta disagree Mr. President, Armacel is the best stuff going for replacing the stock gaskets.
The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
Waxman, I just had mine open over the weekend. The black wire goes to the red dot/left terminal in both speakers.
understood- case closed. thank you! -
Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Another question though- I drilled and installed the ring for the passive radiator, and the threaded barrels of the rings protrude from the surface of the lip a little bit. That's going to defeat the purpose of the rings because I won't be able to crank down on the screws to get a nice airtight seal between the radiator and the lip. Suggestions? Common?
For comparison, on the driver rings the barrels are still recessed in the lip so I will be able to easily get the airtight seal. -
I'll ask this question on the ring thread so others can chime in.
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Yes, that will be a problem. I had that happen to a job I was doing, but it wasn't a pair of 2.3TL's. Anyway, I used my Dremel with a cut off wheel to remove the excess. Do it with the ring out of the cabinet.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
F1nut- on the third driver down in the 4-stack, wiring looks like this - white/white on one side and white/black on the other. I am I correct is assuming the white/black pair go to the left/red dot side of the driver? thanks!
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Yes, as indicated by the small piece of black tape wrapped around just below the faston.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
I found this discussion quite interesting! Will the battery test confirm that the drivers are hooked up correctly?POLK SDA 2.3 TLS BOUGHT NEW IN 1990, Gimpod/Sonic Caps/Mills RDO-198
POLK CSI-A6 POLK MONITOR 70'S ONKYO TX NR-808 SONY CDP-333ES
PIONEER PL-510A SONY BDP S5100
POLK SDA 1C BOUGHT USED 2011,Gimpod/Sonic Caps/Mills RDO-194
ONKYO HT RC-360 SONY BDP S590 TECHNICS SL BD-1 -
I believe that would be yes.Mojo Audio Illuminati v3>>Quantum Byte w/LMS>>Rpi/PiCoreplayer>> Starlight 7 USB >> Mojo Audio Mystique v2 SE>>ModWright SWL 9.0 SE Signature>>Hafler DH-500 Amp+ (Musical Concepts Fully Modded)>>
SRS 2.3TL (Fully Modded)...Velodyne Optimum 8 subwoofer
1KVA Dreadnought
Marantz SA 8005
Pioneer PLX-1000 Turntable - Shure SC35C/N35X - V15III/VN35HE
Yamaha TX-540 Tuner...Sony BDP-S570
Sony PS4
Separate subpanel with four dedicated 20 amp circuits.
1. Amplification 2. Analog 3. Digital 4. Video
"All THAT IS LOST FROM THE SOURCE IS LOST FOREVER" -
What is the thread size for the feet/spikes on a 2.3TL?
I am going on a road trip tomorrow to pick up my 2.3TL's. From looking at photos I see that they have spikes installed. The button feet are probably long lost and I was wondering what the thread size is so I can fabricate something to use to help move them around until I find the best location and reinstall spikes.
ThanksMojo Audio Illuminati v3>>Quantum Byte w/LMS>>Rpi/PiCoreplayer>> Starlight 7 USB >> Mojo Audio Mystique v2 SE>>ModWright SWL 9.0 SE Signature>>Hafler DH-500 Amp+ (Musical Concepts Fully Modded)>>
SRS 2.3TL (Fully Modded)...Velodyne Optimum 8 subwoofer
1KVA Dreadnought
Marantz SA 8005
Pioneer PLX-1000 Turntable - Shure SC35C/N35X - V15III/VN35HE
Yamaha TX-540 Tuner...Sony BDP-S570
Sony PS4
Separate subpanel with four dedicated 20 amp circuits.
1. Amplification 2. Analog 3. Digital 4. Video
"All THAT IS LOST FROM THE SOURCE IS LOST FOREVER" -
Someone should corroborate, but I believe all vintage Polks use 1/4-20 threading on feet/spikes.Jay
SDA 2BTL * Musical Fidelity A5cr amp * Oppo BDP-93 * Modded Adcom GDA-600 DAC * Rythmik F8 (x2)
Micro Seiki DQ-50 * Hagerman Cornet 2 Phono * A hodgepodge of cabling * Belkin PF60
Preamp rotation: Krell KSL (SCompRacer recapped) * Manley Shrimp * PS Audio 5.0 -
I can confirm my 2.3TL's are 1/4 -20
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Yep, 1/4-20Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Thanks guysMojo Audio Illuminati v3>>Quantum Byte w/LMS>>Rpi/PiCoreplayer>> Starlight 7 USB >> Mojo Audio Mystique v2 SE>>ModWright SWL 9.0 SE Signature>>Hafler DH-500 Amp+ (Musical Concepts Fully Modded)>>
SRS 2.3TL (Fully Modded)...Velodyne Optimum 8 subwoofer
1KVA Dreadnought
Marantz SA 8005
Pioneer PLX-1000 Turntable - Shure SC35C/N35X - V15III/VN35HE
Yamaha TX-540 Tuner...Sony BDP-S570
Sony PS4
Separate subpanel with four dedicated 20 amp circuits.
1. Amplification 2. Analog 3. Digital 4. Video
"All THAT IS LOST FROM THE SOURCE IS LOST FOREVER"
