What's a good USB A to USB B cable?

ken brydson · June 2015

DarqueKnight wrote: »

xcapri79 wrote: »

You misrepresent yourself with a big flip/flop my friend. Why ask for examples for something you previously agreed to? It doesn't make sense.
One day you agree that there are audio myths and snake-oil, then another day you ask for examples of audio myths noting only I, and not you, make this claim.

I see.

You are butthurt because I asked you for examples of audio cable claims you believe to be unscientific or mythical and you don't want to do it. I would think you would be enthusiastic about complying with my request considering your obsession with this topic.

If I say I know some doctors are quacks and you say all doctors are quacks...and I ask you to provide examples of what you consider medical quackery...how is that flip/flopping? You are the one with the extreme position. You should be able and willing to provide examples of what you consider quackery. You are trying to duck substantiating your claims by saying someone partially agrees with you. That is not rational.

Again, can you provide an example of an audio cable ad THAT YOU consider to be unscientific and mythical?

xcapri79 wrote: »

Now you do agree there are audio myths and snake-oil. So which is it?

Of course there are audio myths and snake oil. Roger Russel's website and the Audioholics website are full of them. Roger Russel is selling his IDS 25 speaker system with internal Cardas wire, not because he says he knows Cardas wire to be better, but because he is "out to sell speakers". If he has evidence that Cardas wire is no better than generic wire, shouldn't he should stand by his "convictions" and "principles" and not go along with "evil audio cable manufacturers".

xcapri79 wrote: »

Talk about multiple personalities. I'm not the one with kooky audio theories that are without a properly proven scientific basis.

You and anyone else are always welcome to offer scientific rebuttal. Simply ranting and raving and calling something you don't agree with "kooky" is not scientific.

xcapri79 wrote: »

You bring up examples of ridiculously priced cables as an example of "respectful and constructive discourse".

- Magnum M1.3 balanced ($4,699)
- Oracle V1.3 balanced ($11,749)
- Oracle V1.3 on Audiogon for $5,000

I view this as three examples of the absurd. There is no scientific theory (mathematics and performance measurements) and scientifically conducted listening tests published in a recognized peer review scientific publication to justify the construction and ridiculous cost of those cables.

Are you claiming expertise in cable manufacturing?

This thread has an explanation for you:

Why Are You Mad At Cables You Can't Afford?

xcapri79 wrote: »

As Carl Sagan has said, "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.”

The quantitative evidence is actually quite basic:

1. Measure two cables and see if there are measurable differences between them.
2. Evaluate the measured difference to see if it falls within the range of human perception (hearing, sound localization, and tactile sensation).

Once a quantitative difference has or has not been established, you can do subjective listening evaluations with trained listeners.

xcapri79 wrote: »

If you think CBS is so wrong, why not use your credentials to challenge them?
Do you claim that CBS is on the similar witch hunt as you claim I am on?

What do my credentials have to do with whether or not CBS News reported inaccuracies? The two articles I provided were cases where CBS admitted error. You look insane asking me to challenge someone who has already admitted they were wrong.

xcapri79 wrote: »

Or is it that we are after the truth and the truth hurts?

The only truth that matters to me is the sound coming out of my various audio systems.

Good luck taking down all those evil, evil, evil expensive, esoteric audio cable manufacturers.

And you guys had lunch together IIRC? I would have thrown up a bit...

BlueFox · June 2015

DarqueKnight wrote: »

What do my credentials have to do with whether or not CBS News reported inaccuracies? The two articles I provided were cases where CBS admitted error. You look insane asking me to challenge someone who has already admitted they were wrong.

Just a quick note, CBS just provided a link to a CNET opinion piece. The problem is some people have terrible reading comprehension skills. Thus when they read an opinion that meshes with their thinking they then think it is a scientific treatise, and infallible. Obviously, they are deluded, but in their fantasy world they are always right.

DarqueKnight · June 2015

drselect wrote: »

Dang it now were am I suppose to go to get told what I should think about the news?

Try one of the local psychics or fortune tellers, or, if you are really serious about being told what to think, pick a politician.

DarqueKnight · June 2015

ken brydson wrote: »

And you guys had lunch together IIRC? I would have thrown up a bit...

It was a nice lunch. As I recall, he didn't bring up audio cables until the end as we were leaving.

DarqueKnight · June 2015

xcapri79 wrote: »

Audioquest likes to mix some truth to give themselves a measure of validity with a lot of bs and misapplication of science. We are talking about an AC signal and they talk about directionality. Pure absolute bs.

Try again.

The AC waveform alternates between a max and min value, but the net energy flow is in a single direction from source to load. It is not bouncing back and forth between the wall and the appliance. The "bouncing" or "direction change" is between max and min values of the sine wave peaks.

"A phasor can be considered a vector rotating about the origin in a complex plane. The cosine function is the projection of the vector onto the real axis. Its amplitude is the modulus of the vector, and its argument is the total phase omega t+theta. The phase constant theta represents the angle that the vector forms with the real axis at t = 0."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phasor

"The sum of phasors as addition of rotating vectors."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phasor/wiki/Phasor

In addition to the above, a wire, depending on how it is drawn (milled), can have different electrical properties in one direction compared to the other. The wire insulation, which is a dielectric, will have different electrical properties in one direction compared to the other due to molecular dipole alignment.

"The random orientations of molecular dipoles in a dielectric are aligned under the influence of an electric field by applying a voltage to the electrodes."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dielectric_absorption

AudioQuest was granted two patents for the Dielectric Bias System: 7,872,195 and 7,126,055. The patent filings have considerably more technical detail than the marketing materials. Let us know if you find any technical errors the Patent Office missed.

F1nut · June 2015

So x, since you are so convinced of all this snake oil business going on why don't you sue the cable companies you rail against? I mean, you have all this solid evidence, right? That is you have actually used their products and tested each and every cable with every means currently known to man and science, right? If so, it should be a slam dunk in your favor. Then you can parade the verdict around the net and for once not look like a fool.

DarqueKnight · June 2015

xcapri79 wrote: »

AQ's cable directionality is bogus ...............

xcapri79 wrote: »

Cables are a really boring subject. There are much better things to talk about, don't you agree?

This is a question you should honestly ask yourself.

F1nut · June 2015

AQ's cable directionality is bogus and worthless for AC. There is no audible effect.

So, you tried them?

F1nut · June 2015

I don't believe him either.

BlueFox · June 2015

But he are a lectrical engerneer.

F1nut · June 2015

I just conducted an experiment with one of my high end power cords. I wanted to see if I could hear a difference by reversing the cord and sure enough I did. The male end wouldn't fit in the amp IEC nor would the IEC end plug into the outlet. The result was no sound whatsoever where as before the sound was glorious to say the least. My conclusion is that power cords are without a doubt directional.

EndersShadow · June 2015

The best part of waking up....

was this thread....

drselect · June 2015

DarqueKnight wrote: »

drselect wrote: »

Dang it now were am I suppose to go to get told what I should think about the news?

Try one of the local psychics or fortune tellers, or, if you are really serious about being told what to think, pick a politician.

Actually, I am not looking for any more help in the are of being told what to think. I have several well qualified individuals in my household including at times my dog.

machone · June 2015

Can't wait till the Audioquest Jitterbug is available. That thread should be a blast!

tonyb · June 2015

Once again it just doesn't sink in. Science and subjectivity are 2 peas in different pods.

Science can not predict what I will or will not hear. You can quote electrical standards all day long, has little to do with what people will actually hear.

vmaxer · June 2015

xcapri79 wrote: »

Reread my posts to see who was taken to school. Perhaps it went over your head.
That's the problem here, too many so-called experienced people here don't really seem to understand the basics of electricity and that is why they all too often succumb to the audio mythologies. I was glad to offer a refresher in Electricity 101 free of charge. The class clowns also showed up as predicted.

Tis better to remain silent and let people think you're an idiot than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

EndersShadow · June 2015

vmaxer wrote: »

xcapri79 wrote: »

Reread my posts to see who was taken to school. Perhaps it went over your head.
That's the problem here, too many so-called experienced people here don't really seem to understand the basics of electricity and that is why they all too often succumb to the audio mythologies. I was glad to offer a refresher in Electricity 101 free of charge. The class clowns also showed up as predicted.

Tis better to remain silent and let people think you're an idiot than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

Awww man...... why didnt someone tell me that BEFORE now

tonyb · June 2015

For someone who thinks cables are boring, he sure gets involved in every cable thread. Must be his mission in life...to save us all from ourselves. I think the Bose forum is 2 blocks down on the left. lol

If one thinks that the basics of electricity is the main driving force to all things audio, then they have very little knowledge about audio in general.

DarqueKnight · June 2015

xcapri79 wrote: »

But, you are confusing current flow with power flow. Real power flow does indeed flow from source to load. When voltage and current are in phase (resistive load), the negative voltage and negative current result in positive real power flow just as positive voltage and positive current does. For 60Hz single phase, the power pulsates from zero to a maximum at twice the frequency which is 120Hz.

You are confusing what does the "work" in an electric circuit and what does not.

The oscillation of electric charges does not do the "work" in an electric circuit, the net flow of energy does the work. The net flow of energy is directional.

Think of it this way:

1. You are standing on the edge of cliff 2000 feet high. A strong wind capable of pushing your body forward pushes against your back and the next split-second a strong wind capable of pulling your body forward sucks against your chest producing a strong vacuum. Will your body remain stationary on the cliff or will you move over the edge and fall?

2. In the scenario above, is the push/pull effect of the wind the most important consideration, or is your impending impact with the ground 2000 feet below of greatest concern? Energy is not going to be transferred to the ground below by the oscillating movement of the wind, but by the impact of your body.

3. Assume the wind keeps pushing and pulling on your body as you fall to the ground. The wind is strong enough to move your body, but not strong enough to support its weight against gravity. An observer on the ground below the cliff sees what? To the observer, your body appears to be moving side to side (blown by the pushing and pulling of the wind) as you fall toward the ground.

4. While you were standing on the edge of the cliff, before the wind began to flow, someone warned you about the wind and said you should wear a parachute if you insisted on standing on the cliff's edge. You declined the parachute because you said, "since the wind changes direction every split second, a wind pushing me over the edge would be cancelled by a wind pushing me back to the edge". However, the tragedy that ensued in 1-3 above was caused by a misunderstanding that the wind was not a push in one direction/push in the opposite direction wind. The wind was a push in one direction/pull in the same direction wind.

tonyb · June 2015

Zero wrote: »

Y'all be trippin'.

Yeah...so. If you can think of a better pain relief for dealing with trolls, I'm all ears.

mantis · June 2015

xcapri79 wrote: »

I previously brought this up in the "Bi-Wiring, what exactly is it doing?" thread on May 17 page 4.

Audioquest likes to mix some truth to give themselves a measure of validity with a lot of bs and misapplication of science. We are talking about an AC signal and they talk about directionality. Pure absolute bs.

http://www.audioquest.com/pdfs/aq_cable_theory.pdf

Directionality: All cables are directional, from hardware store electrical cable to the finest pure silver cables. All AudioQuest cables are marked for direction. With other cables it might be necessary to simply listen to the cables in one direction and then the other. The difference will be clear-in the correct direction the music is more relaxed, pleasant and believable. While cable directionality is not fully understood, it is clear that the molecular structure of drawn metal is not symmetrical, providing a physical explanation for the existence of directionality.

I can answer this as I have spoken to a few engineers who are from Audioquest and a few that are not.
The common thing I learned from all of them was that the way the Metal is drawn which means if you don't know is when a wire is made smaller and smaller. This process is called Drawn. What engineers have found is when you go with the grain structure, the signal no matter what it is stays in tact, when you go against the grain is when you get fluctuations at the end of the signal path. This is very minimal and isn't always noticeable by the human ear but it has been measured by a few speaker manufactures and from Audioquest engineers themselves.
Now I look at this as the engineers from Audioquest have a vested interest in finding anyway to prove that their technology and science behind their products. Reasons to sell their products over all others. This alone didn't sell me on Audioquest it was when other engineers who have no vested interest told me about their experience testing their cables and found them to be truest to the signal so they can test their products with measured consistent tested results. That alone still didn't make me decide to only now use Audioquest , it's when I have over years and years of testing cables in my own systems and all the ones I have Installed over the last 16 years , I have noticed very consistent results and other cables I have used did not. Still this isn't the only reasons. Here is another one , no broken cables in all the years using Audioquest cables. NONE at all. I can't claim that of any other cable company including the internet loved Monoprice. Actually Monoprice has the very highest failure rate of any cable I have tested which isn't just audio but video and ethernet path cables. I can't believe how many fail or are not properly working right out of the bag or box.
So lets say that Monoprice cables are all you need for ones system to function properly and they don't get in the way of the signal anywhere. But if you purchase 10 cables and 5 of them are broken, what does that tell you about the quality of termination? Their QC is terrible I don't care about price I want whatever I purchase to work and work exactly as claimed , not fail hours weeks later at a high rate or not at all right out of the packaging.
I'll go even further that I personally think that even Audioquest goes way beyond the call of duty and builds cables to satisfy the desire of audiophiles who demand even higher end cables for whatever their reasons are. I couldn't care less honestly they can do whatever they feel is right. Even people who do purchase cables that I would never ever consider ever using or wasting my hair earned money on, think about it before you start bashing , it's not your business. You can disagree with them that you wouldn't use those cables in your system but to sit there and have a pissing match about it is a complete waste of time.
Being in the business as I'm gonna bring up a lot has taught me a great deal about all this bull crap. I will agree with every single person who thinks most if not all high end cables are a waste of money. The truth of the matter is guess what ? It's very true. Most of these cable companies are crap repackaged lies. I didn't learn this just on my own but again from being in the industry and learning from speaker companies who have tried these unsaid brands and found failures, inconsistent results when trying to test crossovers and driver technologies, testing cabinets and what have you. I have also learned from many source and amp engineers who also when I asked told me about all this bull crap.
So I don't care what is of the fence you live on this never ending battle but truth be told that so many people have been ripped off from these companies from my point of view. Honestly I really don't care what you think of this info one way or another, I'm putting it out there for all of you to read. Do exactly what you want with it as at the end of the day my system is wired the way I see fit . You wire your system the way you see fit.
We all on't have to agree an thats ok , if we could do it without all the crap bashing stuff that gets posted around here. It's about as old as dirt itself.

BlueFox · June 2015

I always wonder why people do not look at their post to make sure it is okay, and then edit it to fix mistakes. Such as messing up quoting.

DarqueKnight · June 2015

mantis wrote: »

xcapri79 wrote: »

I previously brought this up in the "Bi-Wiring, what exactly is it doing?" thread on May 17 page 4.

Audioquest likes to mix some truth to give themselves a measure of validity with a lot of bs and misapplication of science. We are talking about an AC signal and they talk about directionality. Pure absolute bs.

http://www.audioquest.com/pdfs/aq_cable_theory.pdf

Directionality: All cables are directional, from hardware store electrical cable to the finest pure silver cables. All AudioQuest cables are marked for direction. With other cables it might be necessary to simply listen to the cables in one direction and then the other. The difference will be clear-in the correct direction the music is more relaxed, pleasant and believable. While cable directionality is not fully understood, it is clear that the molecular structure of drawn metal is not symmetrical, providing a physical explanation for the existence of directionality.

I can answer this as I have spoken to a few engineers who are from Audioquest and a few that are not.

The common thing I learned from all of them was that the way the Metal is drawn which means if you don't know is when a wire is made smaller and smaller. This process is called Drawn. What engineers have found is when you go with the grain structure, the signal no matter what it is stays in tact, when you go against the grain is when you get fluctuations at the end of the signal path. This is very minimal and isn't always noticeable by the human ear but it has been measured by a few speaker manufactures and from Audioquest engineers themselves.

Some people think all there is to understanding electricity is current direction and Ohm's law. An electric signal has more components than current, and those other components all have to be accounted for in high performance cable design. For example, the electromagnetic field induced by an electric current can cause inductive coupling whereby one conductor can induce noise in another. That is why twist geometry is important, and that is why telecom companies have invested so much money researching various methods of twisted pair cables for reducing inductive coupling (crosstalk). Insulation can absorb and spuriously release energy. That is why careful selection of dielectric materials is important.

F1nut · June 2015

wasting my hair

Freudian slip?

tonyb · June 2015

Is this thread even about a good USB cable anymore ? lol

tonyb · June 2015

xcapri79 wrote: »

[
So the question has been answered.

How so ? You quoted Dans rant but both of you fail on the experience side. Dans argument is "because someone told him " ? Which is also your argument. You read somewhere....so it must be true.

I can find anything on the internet to justify pretty much anything I want to believe....and that's your stance, because you have zero experience with better audio and need to vilify why you don't want to go there.

Instead of just admitting your lack of experience, and saying your opinions are only based on what experience you do have, you seemed to be more arrogant because you have a degree in something that is pretty much useless in audio. Why ? Because audio, is enjoyed with our ears, not degree's on printed paper or nameplates on gear. Being an EE grants you no more audio knowledge that a guy who flunked out of 8th grade. Maybe the guy with a lack of education spent the next 20 years in audio.....learning, experiencing, exploring new things. His opinion would mean worlds more than an EE with next to nothing in experiences.

Do you not get that ? Did you not say cable threads are boring ? Yet your main gig is posting in them. Everything on forums is based on how you phrase your posts. You come off as your church of audio cables is the only correct one. If you instead phrased them to say something like...."In my limited experiences" or "Just my opinion but..." people wouldn't be so confrontational with you and a few others. It would also help to answer questions posed to you.

gudnoyez · June 2015

Only 19 more dollars than a Belkin and the improvements are already noticeable were talking 19 dollars here folks.

mantis · June 2015

gudnoyez wrote: »

Only 19 more dollars than a Belkin and the improvements are already noticeable were talking 19 dollars here folks.

It's because that cable is built correctly to USB standards and Audioquest pay close attention to every last detail even at the Forest level. The Forest level cables across the board are fantastic cables and are built to perform to spec.
At this level there is very little to be gained going up the chain, I have learned that first hand.

comfortablycurt · July 2015

Woah. I've got a few comments to catch up with in this thread. It's been a busy summer and I haven't been around for a little while.

What's a good USB A to USB B cable?

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