What's a good USB A to USB B cable?

comfortablycurt

Hey everyone,

I've found that I do a lot of my listening on my computer these days, and I figured it's about time I start getting a better signal path for my digital music. Up until now I've been connecting my laptop to my two channel rig via a 3.5mm to RCA cable. However, my most recent acquisition is a Parasound Halo P5, which has a USB B input as well as a built in DAC. The problem is that I don't have a proper cable to hook it up, so I'm still using the 3.5mm to RCA cable. This means I can't utilize the built in DAC, which simply will not do. I briefly considered running to Walmart and getting a decent looking cable there. But I'm wondering if I'd be better off just waiting and finding something nicer now rather than upgrading later.

What is the consensus on digital cables today? Is it worth spending more on a nicer USB? I've looked at a couple different ones, but I haven't yet researched this too much. Some that caught my eye were the Audioquest Forest and Audioquest Carbon. I'm not really wanting to spend more than $100ish or so on it, assuming that it will even be worth it in the first place. What I need is a USB A to USB B, approximately 5-6 feet.

Any input would be much appreciated!

Curt

machone

Curt
There's many opinions on this subject similar to speaker cables. I personally don't have any experience. Just what I have read. Maybe some other members can give their experiences. I also wish to upgrade.

gudnoyez

http://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/167202/audioquest-carbon-usb-cable

This one right here is a good deal I bought a forest do to a recommendation by Mantis, but this carbon at half price is a heck of a deal.

ZLTFUL

Funny thing that Mediabridge cable...it isn't gold plated. It is brass. I know...I tested that exact cable. So I guess Mediabridge is using marketing hype too...so you should avoid them as well.

comfortablycurt

I ended up just spending about $7 on a Monoprice cable to get me by for the time being. I think I want to upgrade my IC's and speaker cables before spending the coin on a nicer USB. Those upgrades will all be coming soon.

In the meantime, I'm still definitely interested in suggestions.

gudnoyez wrote: »

This one right here is a good deal I bought a forest do to a recommendation by Mantis, but this carbon at half price is a heck of a deal.

I saw that as well. This is a great price, but unfortunately the USB input on the P5 is a USB B style input. That cable has regular USB terminations on both ends. Otherwise I probably would have bought it already.

I've read a lot of good reviews for the AQ Carbon, so it's definitely on my radar.

xcapri79 wrote: »

There is no need to spend more than $10 for such a cable.
Don't fall for the bogus claims by those marketing exotic cables.

Is your opinion based on actual listening experience with more exotic digital cables? I seem to recall you being something of a cable naysayer in general, which definitely doesn't line up with my own experiences.

I can see a bit more merit to the argument that difference in digital cables doesn't make a difference as opposed to analog cables. However, I've experienced dramatic differences with analog cables, and before trying higher quality cables I was staunchly of the opinion that cables couldn't/shouldn't make a difference.

comfortablycurt

DSkip wrote: »

I've got a 5M Audioquest Cinnamon that works well. I noticed an improvement over *ahem* $10 USB cables as well as the Audioquest Forest. I think if you go AQ, you need to look at the Cinnamon or above.

I've always been a big fan of AQ cables, so I'm slightly biased in that direction by default. Although I'm certainly not closed to other brands by any means.

I was looking at the AQ Cinnamon as well. That one looks nice, and the price tag is a little bit more friendly than the Carbon.

I was originally thinking that 5-6 feet would suffice, but now I'm thinking that something more like 3.0 m or ~10 feet would be better. This makes price a bit more a concern, which makes the Cinnamon more appealing.

3.0m Cinnamon (on Amazon) is $109, and 3.0m Carbon is $250. This is a big difference. I might be leaning towards the Cinnamon now.

comfortablycurt

If it has a regular USB on one end and a USB B on the other end, there's a good chance I'd be interested. I wouldn't mind the extra length, so a 5m is appealing. This will be used to run from my preamp to my laptop, and I'd like to have enough slack to move it around with me and use it while I'm sitting on the couch.

EndersShadow

Hey @comfortablycurt ... that Audioquest Carbon in the Flea Market is a USB A to USB B cable... so its a regular USB on one side, and the square connector on the other.....

comfortablycurt

Thanks for the clarification. I didn't look closely enough at the picture. It's kind of a weird angle, but now I can see that one of the connectors is a USB B.

After putting some more thought into it though I'm realizing that 5' just isn't long enough for my needs. If I was going to leave my laptop on my AV rack while listening to music through it, 5' would be perfect. I need something that I can move around with me though, so I'm now leaning toward 3m and even considering Skip's 5m AQ Cinnamon, should he decide to part with it.

EndersShadow

No worries man, just wanted to clarify.

Additionally eBay is a good place to find those cables...

I paid 40, 80 & 60 for my 3 3m Cinnamon HDMI cables and STOLE a 5m in wall Cinnamon for 46....

mantis

You should do a search on my USB shoot out thread. It should be a good read for you. I have test USB cables like a mad man so it's worth your time.
I personally kept the Carbon and love it.

WagnerRC

Audio quest Forest works great for me.

comfortablycurt

xcapri79 wrote: »

Just tried to help. In previous posts, you sounded like you were short on money and were looking for bargains i.e. Parasound HCA-1200 Mkii for under $300. So I provided a couple of friendly suggestions to help you out. If you want to spend more than you need to on an USB cable, be my guest. It is your money to spend as you see fit.

I don't mind spending on McIntosh equipment because their equipment is that good, but I don't waste money on esoteric cables.

To each their own.

That was a genuine question. Do you have actual experience with using different digital cables, or are you forming your opinions from a purely theoretical standpoint of how a digital signal should behave?

EndersShadow wrote: »

No worries man, just wanted to clarify.

Additionally eBay is a good place to find those cables...

I paid 40, 80 & 60 for my 3 3m Cinnamon HDMI cables and STOLE a 5m in wall Cinnamon for 46....

Those are great prices. I'll be keeping my eye out for a deal.

mantis wrote: »

You should do a search on my USB shoot out thread. It should be a good read for you. I have test USB cables like a mad man so it's worth your time.
I personally kept the Carbon and love it.

I took your advice and looked up your USB shoot out thread. I haven't read through all of the comments yet, but I will soon.

ZLTFUL

xcapri79 wrote: »

Just take the time to really understand how USB and digital communications work. After that all I can say is, it's your wallet and your decision! Budget as you see fit.
I know what my decision would be.

It is never as black and white as you guys try to make it out to be.
I've been doing this whole computer engineering thing for nearly a couple of decades now and every day I see things that laugh in the face of what is and isn't supposed to be.

comfortablycurt

xcapri79 wrote: »

Just take the time to really understand how USB and digital communications work. After that all I can say is, it's your wallet and your decision! Budget as you see fit.
I know what my decision would be.

I understand how digital communications work. In the pure theory that we'd put on paper to explain digital signal transmission, variation in cables -shouldn't- make a difference, at least not beyond a limiting point of what is considered to be an adequate medium to transfer the signal. However, the theory on paper doesn't always mesh exactly with practical applications of the theory. I've been a physics major for three years now, and this simple fact is certainly one of the things I've seen most. This is why we discuss things such as spherical cow approximations or joke about spherical chickens in a vacuum. If we assume an ideal cable in an ideal environment connected to ideal equipment, we can conclude that cable variations will not impact sound. However, these aren't assumptions that we can always make in the real world.

It's entirely possible that I won't hear any kind of difference in these cables. I have a cheap Monoprice USB that I'm going to be hooking up in a bit. I'll definitely be doing some close comparisons between the two. I'm not really on either side of the digital cable debate at this point. I just know that I trust my own experimental findings more than I trust the pure theory. If I don't find a difference between USB cables, I'll keep the Monoprice and sell whatever else I buy. Worst case scenario: I'll be out 20 bucks or so. I can stomach that.

vmaxer

comfortablycurt wrote: »

xcapri79 wrote: »

Just take the time to really understand how USB and digital communications work. After that all I can say is, it's your wallet and your decision! Budget as you see fit.
I know what my decision would be.

I understand how digital communications work. In the pure theory that we'd put on paper to explain digital signal transmission, variation in cables -shouldn't- make a difference, at least not beyond a limiting point of what is considered to be an adequate medium to transfer the signal. However, the theory on paper doesn't always mesh exactly with practical applications of the theory. I've been a physics major for three years now, and this simple fact is certainly one of the things I've seen most. This is why we discuss things such as spherical cow approximations or joke about spherical chickens in a vacuum. If we assume an ideal cable in an ideal environment connected to ideal equipment, we can conclude that cable variations will not impact sound. However, these aren't assumptions that we can always make in the real world.

It's entirely possible that I won't hear any kind of difference in these cables. I have a cheap Monoprice USB that I'm going to be hooking up in a bit. I'll definitely be doing some close comparisons between the two. I'm not really on either side of the digital cable debate at this point. I just know that I trust my own experimental findings more than I trust the pure theory. If I don't find a difference between USB cables, I'll keep the Monoprice and sell whatever else I buy. Worst case scenario: I'll be out 20 bucks or so. I can stomach that.

Very well said!!

ZLTFUL

Look Curt...we don't want you spending YOUR money in a manner that YOU decide. I mean it is, after all, YOUR money.


Er...hey...wait...

Irrenhaus

Hey I got an AQ Cinnamon 0.75m and so far happy. Price was okay.

Cheers

BlueFox

Funny how the real world does what it wants and sometimes does not quite work as theory expects. Or, just maybe, we aren't as smart as some of us think we are, and there is still a lot to be discovered at the atomic level.

comfortablycurt

BlueFox wrote: »

Funny how the real world does what it wants and sometimes does not quite work as theory expects. Or, just maybe, we aren't as smart as some of us think we are, and there is still a lot to be discovered at the atomic level.

I know I'm not as smart as I think I am. I'm sure that statement makes sense somehow. If I was as smart as I think I am, I'd probably be able to understand it.

And there's even MORE to be discovered at the sub-atomic level. That's the best part.

ZLTFUL wrote: »

Look Curt...we don't want you spending YOUR money in a manner that YOU decide. I mean it is, after all, YOUR money.

Er...hey...wait...

Damn. I should have started a poll then. I guess I should create a new thread...lol

Irrenhaus wrote: »

Hey I got an AQ Cinnamon 0.75m and so far happy. Price was okay.

Cheers

That's good to hear! I may have a deal in the works for a 5.0m Cinnamon.

comfortablycurt

No hurry at all on my end! I'm not even going to have my stereo between the end of this month and the beginning of August, so I'm unfortunately not going to get to spend a significant amount of time with any of this gear until later in the year.

BlueFox

comfortablycurt wrote: »

I know I'm not as smart as I think I am. I'm sure that statement makes sense somehow. If I was as smart as I think I am, I'd probably be able to understand it.

None of us are. Except for those who say cables do not matter, since they seem to know everything.

And there's even MORE to be discovered at the sub-atomic level. That's the best part.

Hurry up and and get the PhD, and then create some really great cables.

comfortablycurt

BlueFox wrote: »

Hurry up and and get the PhD, and then create some really great cables.

I should be done with it in about 8 more years, so I'm getting there...lol

I've got some plans laid. Right now there are trillions of solar neutrinos passing right through each of us and the entire Earth. They're also passing through our speaker cables! Never mind that neutrinos don't interact with the electromagnetic field...we need neutrino shielding for our cables.

ken brydson

nbrowser wrote: »

comfortablycurt wrote: »

I should be done with it in about 8 more years, so I'm getting there...lol

I've got some plans laid. Right now there are trillions of solar neutrinos passing right through each of us and the entire Earth. They're also passing through our speaker cables! Never mind that neutrinos don't interact with the electromagnetic field...we need neutrino shielding for our cables.

Tinfoil with a lead liner?

Heard tin foil was next to the black paint these days...

comfortablycurt

Black paint is actually the only thing that can stop neutrinos. That's why it's in such short supply these days.

nbrowser wrote: »

Tinfoil with a lead liner?

Not neutrinos. They're small enough to pass right through lead and most of them don't even interact with the atoms within the lead. They stream right through Earth and come out the other side.

Tinfoil and lead are very effective against WiFi rays and chemtrailz though. This is important knowledge to have.

ZLTFUL

I love the crusaders who are out there trying to save people from spending their own money however they choose.

If it makes the person happy, then it is a good thing no matter what the naysayers feel about it.

So why don't the naysayers STFU and move on? Because they have reached such a high level of self-righteousness that they can't feel complete without saving others from mistakes that they are too conceded to make themselves!

comfortablycurt

It's not necessarily bad to be a 'naysayer.' However, there is a rather large range across which one's naysaying can vary. It's important to question the claims made by others and to find ways to either support or refute those claims, depending on one's own stance regarding the given issue. When the naysaying is a matter of principles and hypotheticals, it doesn't have as much sway on the issue. One can say that digital cables shouldn't make a difference according to the theory. However, if one does not have any actual experience, it's harder to take it as a serious point. If someone has tried a cheap cable and 2-3 other cables, then they have a much more solid foundation on which to build their position.

Theory isn't always perfect. There are countless examples of theory being adjusted after not meshing with experimental findings. This process of experimentation is how we grow and learn more about the world though.

What it really comes down to: If USB cables DO make a difference, then it is an improvement that I want to have in my system. I'll determine whether there is a difference via my own listening. I'm looking forward to this comparison.

machone

Like I said "There's many opinions on this subject similar to speaker cables".
At least it didn't end in a fist fight.

ZLTFUL

Curt, that's where it gets frustrating. The naysayers claim you are wasting your money and you won't hear a difference.
Then you have the "other side" who say let your own ears decide and you will never know til you try.
I fall in the latter, not the former.
The part that frustrates me is when the naysayers claim their viewpoint as fact based on no experience but simply because Audioholics say so.
It is nice for them in that they get to live in a world of absolutes. And as a physics major, you know that absolutes are the poorest form of free thinking.

comfortablycurt

Physics is definitely not about absolutes. Most of modern physics is based on statistical averages and a great deal of uncertainty. This uncertainty is almost the entire point of quantum mechanics.

Nobody with any knowledge of the subject will ever say that Newton was wrong, even if Einstein came up with a much better theory. Newton was incomplete, which is a great deal different from being wrong. For nearly all practical purposes, Newtonian physics is more than adequate. But it does fall apart when we approach the very small or the very massive, and at speeds approaching light. E=mc² is nearly always true, but not always. It always holds true for inertial mass, but not necessarily for gravitational mass. Refer to this thread, and specifically to post number 4 if you'd like to read more about this. https://physicsforums.com/threads/e-mc2-is-not-really-true-in-all-cases.140106/

Ohm's Law, V=IR, is certainly not an absolute in any sense. It isn't even entirely correct to call it a law. This name is a result of a lack of a complete understanding of electromagnetism and only holds true under certain conditions. Ohm's Law only holds for materials that are known as Ohmic conductors. This is a good discussion of Ohm's Law, and when it does or doesn't hold. https://boundless.com/physics/textbooks/boundless-physics-textbook/electric-current-and-resistance-19/resistance-and-resistors-146/ohm-s-law-520-11191/ However, Ohm's Law is an amazingly useful relationship that does hold true a great deal of the time. Ohm's Law becomes decreasingly accurate as temperature increases, to name but one instance of this discrepancy.

Regardless, I'm not sure how relevant this is. If anything, I think this argument works against you. If the goal of our physics problem is to calculate the force exerted by a 50 kg object accelerating in a straight line on a level surface at 7 m/s/s, it's a straight forward process. But this is only a very small part of the picture. When this object is accelerating in a three dimensional space, and we account for friction, drag forces, constantly variable mass (as is the case for rockets, cars, and anything that carries an amount of solid or liquid fuel), and numerous other variables, we have a much more complicated scenario that depends on a great deal of factors. F=ma, V=IR, and E=mc² are all seemingly simple relationships, but can quickly become terrifyingly complicated when really applying them. There are many variables that come into play here.

This isn't about a lack of understanding of how cables work. It's about the universal tendency to simplify things to "spherical cow approximations" to obtain accurate enough information to suit our purposes. You're arguing that physics is about absolutes, but it's far more correct to say that most physics is about trends, averages, and statistics.

BlueFox

You sure are desperate trying to rationalize how you think the universe should work. We have only scratched the surface of those sciences. To even think we are close to understanding electronics, for example, is the height of nonsense.