Speaker choices - anyone has any opinion on either of these? BW 800 Diamonds or SF Strads.

Joey_V · February 2015

So I'm looking for my next pair of speakers, narrowed it down to really just 2.

Either I go with B&W 800 diamonds or Sonus Faber Stradivari.

2 camps to this thought:

1. B&W 800 diamonds are current cream of the crop for B&W, they appear to be very transparent to the source to my ears. However, cons for me are the excessively large weight which would make it difficult for me to move up and down the stairs if I need to either sell or move as a secondary speaker in the future, and the fact that there might be a new top shelf B&W speaker in 2016/17.

2. The Strads have been a goal of mine for a while, but I've only heard them once. And while they were very good and sounded fantastic, I thought that they were not as transparent as the BW were. That said, I thought they were even more holographic and 3D. Bass was better too. Other Pros include not as large or bulky as the BW 800 diamonds and would likely be easier to place. Cons to me are that it is old tech, and has been supassed in ranks by other SF speakers though they do not share the same house sound. Another con is that it is more costly as well.

I did think of a 3rd scenario, and probably a compromise. I would entertain the BW 802 Diamonds as a possible compromise. It is smaller, easier to move and mobilize, easier for me to integrate as a 2nd system anchor should the time arise to upgrade. Also it is less costly and would easily allow me to upgrade to the new BW top end speakers should the opportunity present itself in 3 years or so. Plus it will get me a majority of the sound of the 800 diamonds.

Just trying to put my thoughts into words, if anyone has any thoughts or opinions, feel free to share. Thanks!

Joey_V · February 2015

Of course, this being a polk forum, I am in the process of getting a bunch of polk speakers for the house. I have need for several in-ceiling speakers and would like to go with the LSiM versions of them... always have a fond place for Polk in my heart.

deronb1 · February 2015

Have you auditioned the B&W pm1? Beautiful speakers that sound outstanding. Would be easier to move than any of the others.

tonyb · February 2015

My vote would be the Sonus Faber Strats. Those would be an end game speaker for me. In my opinion, no such thing as "old tech" when it comes to good sound. Either it sounds good to your ears or it doesn't.

Not a huge fan of the Diamond series for B&W.

Joey_V · February 2015

Yeah we shall see. Diamonds for me with the right pairing just sounded nearly out of this world. Pair it with Rotel and you got yourself a crappy sounding speaker.

Sometimes a speaker that sounds good all the time is not so much a speaker as it imparts it own sonic signature. A more transparent system, on the other hand, may be harder to pin down correctly, but very rewarding in th send.

Cary and 800 diamonds are just sublime.

tonyb · February 2015

Joey_V wrote: »

Cary and 800 diamonds are just sublime.

Yeah man, forgot you had the SLP O5 in house. I can see that pairing doing well.

Joey_V · February 2015

Tony

Heard the diamonds on a full rotel system - sounded terrible. Heard the diamonds on all mac system - sounded OK. Heard the diamonds (802) with my CARY 05 preamp in an otherwise mac system - sounded frickin' phenomenal.

That's how I know the speakers are good, if they can sound bad with other components.

Hey DSkip -

What have I ruled out -
1. Wilsons Alexia, Wilsons Sasha 2, Wilsons Sophia 3.
2. Rockport Avior, Rockport Atria
3. Martin Logan Summit X
4. Magnepan 20.7, 3.7
5. TAD Reference 1
6. SF Olympica III
7. Vandersteen 5Carbon
8. Klipsch RF7ii

Right now, I have the Cary 05 preamp and the Cary 211 FE monoblocks - the new ones. For source, I was looking at the Esoteric K01, but wouldn't mind saving some dough on perhaps the MAC MCD
1103.

Budget is approximately 20-30K for speakers, lower number is better obviously.

Sound I'm after is basically something that gets me to feel like I'm not listening to a pair of speakers and that I'm at the event. Something with good back to front soundstage depth and where there is holographic vocals. I really got this sense when I listened to the 802 diamonds with my Cary 05 pre in an otherwise Mac SS system.

Room is dedicated, 17x14.5 with sloped ceiling front to back, 8ft front and 9ft back with furdowns along the side. Treated. No open hallways anywhere to mess with the sound. Symmetric room otherwise.

A few things I havent listened to but also have no local access to - Vivid Audio Giyas, Focal Utopias.

Joey_V · February 2015

deronb1 wrote: »

Have you auditioned the B&W pm1? Beautiful speakers that sound outstanding. Would be easier to move than any of the others.

Yep, heard the PM1. We plugged it side by side against the 805 Diamond and there was really no contest in that regard. The Diamond had less sizzle up top though the PM1 on its own was a great speaker... I like the PM1 so much that I have been planning on getting it as a speaker for the family room.

Great little guy for sure and the price is not absurd for a monitor. They image very very well. Near point source in my view.

This was on a Mac integrated.

polkfarmboy · February 2015

I say go with the bw 800 and if you cant find em cheap enough just buy some polk rti8 as they sound very similar.

Joey_V · February 2015

polkfarmboy wrote: »

I say go with the bw 800 and if you cant find em cheap enough just buy some polk rti8 as they sound very similar.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. I think I'm going with the Diamonds, but will really ponder if I want to go 800 or 802. Going for a 2nd listen to the Strads coming up. Have to fly out just to hear them unfortunately since they are difficult to find.

deronb1 · February 2015

polkfarmboy wrote: »

I say go with the bw 800 and if you cant find em cheap enough just buy some polk rti8 as they sound very similar.

Idiotic statement.

tonyb · February 2015

I hear ya Joey. You want a more emotional connection with the music without the laid back sound. Another one to audition is the Acoustic zen Crescendo's, if you can find a hi-fi shop that carries them. Seem a tad over priced though imho.

You know me Joey, I'm a Legacy fan boy to some extent and wouldn't mind having a set of these sitting around staring at me...
http://legacyaudio.com/products/view/aeris/

tonyb · February 2015

I guess the bottom line here is, if Joey already heard the Diamonds on the same pre he has and digs it, then start looking for a deal on the Diamonds.

Joey_V · February 2015

Have not heard magicos but they seem to be next level pricing for me. Thought about going to the big boys but wife put the foot down, Q7 would've been possible had I been still single.

But yeah, enough dreaming. Maybe next round of speakers.

I have toyed with the idea of getting a pair of used Magico Mini II for the gameroom to see what the hoopla was about, but not sure yet and I want to focus on the main 2ch first. I have been told to listen to some YG but impossible to find nearby.

Alexia? Wanted to like them and was prepared to shell the dough, but the convergent synergy tweeter was too tame and honestly sounded colored and muted even on Boulder electronics.

Didn't get any goosebumps with the TAD Ref 1 either and those were a steal for me had I bought them as a demo pair. Retail on those is 78 and the dealer who was closing down offered it to me for 29. Wanted to like it but couldn't do it.

800 diamonds gave me goosebumps. But the Strads almost made me cry. So that's why I gotta listen again to the Strads. See if it was like a one time fling or if it was legit.

No worries about other brands. When I'm through, I want to have 3 different speaker brands in the house. Not to mention I'm looking forward to installing all my Polk in ceilings.

One day maybe the BW, SF, and maybe a pair of Logans or Magico can be found in 1 spot. Better to diversify than keep to a single house sound I think.

For now, gotta focus on the 2ch. The rest will come over the next couple of years.

Joey_V · February 2015

tonyb wrote: »

I guess the bottom line here is, if Joey already heard the Diamonds on the same pre he has and digs it, then start looking for a deal on the Diamonds.

Yeah... Tough to find a deal on the 800 diamonds. Very tough.

Joey_V · February 2015

DSkip wrote: »

Magico, Evolution Acoustics, YG Audio, Usher Be series. I really want to get my ear on the Lawrence speakers.

I'm a bit surprised that you discounted the Wilson Alexia honestly. That speaker absolutely blew me away. The setup I heard had TOTL ARC and Shunyata powering it.

Thought about Evolution, but can't fit the MM3 in my room. Usher, no dealer.

Focal utopia... That's one I'm interested in.

erniejade · February 2015

Have you heard the PSB Imagine T3? I found the highs a bit smoother vs the 800 D's but still kept full detail and the up front sound like the b&w plus I found the bass a bit faster. Also for that size room you might be able to get away with the T2 if you find you like the PSB sound. Any dealers in your area that let you do a weekend in home trial?

brianle · February 2015

Your Cary monoblocks may not be the best match for the B&W 800 though. Have you considered Dynaudio C4 ?

Joey_V · February 2015

Thanks guys, good discussion.

I sent the impedance graph of the BW 800 diamonds to Cary and they told me to use the 4 ohm taps and that there was enough to power it and that they recommended the 211 FE monoblocks. This was their biggest and most powerful with the new direct-tech technology so it has enough gusto for my midsized room. If that doesn't work, I'll be back here and we will be talking amps. Not opposed to getting similar level solid state amplification like the Mcintosh 1.2kw monoblocks or what.

Joey_V · February 2015

DSkip wrote: »

Could just be bad pairings. Everything at that level is going to be very sensitive to the upstream products. Since you have heard the B&W with your pre, that does solidify it more for your situation. I'd imagine that pairing it with the SF will tame the highs too much if you like what it did for the Diamond tweeters. I still think you owe it to yourself to try and find a pair of diamond series Ushers to listen to. I haven't had a chance to hear the big boys, but I almost bought a pair of AC-10 from Florida about a year ago. The Be series is supposed to be a pretty big improvement over the AC.

Regarding bad pairings, possible. But I heard Alexia's and Sasha 2 on arc, d'agostinos, and boulder. Don't get me wrong they sound good... But not "that money" good for me.

Joey_V · February 2015

erniejade wrote: »

Have you heard the PSB Imagine T3? I found the highs a bit smoother vs the 800 D's but still kept full detail and the up front sound like the b&w plus I found the bass a bit faster. Also for that size room you might be able to get away with the T2 if you find you like the PSB sound. Any dealers in your area that let you do a weekend in home trial?

Will keep that in mind... Never heard of psb t2. Is that a full range speaker? I have other rooms for a bookshelf in mind.

Joey_V · February 2015

ZLTFUL wrote: »

I sort of felt the same way about the TAD Ref1s and the CR1s. It was a whole lot of "Meh...they sound good but they don't move me."

Exactly my friend... Exactly.

And I heard them in gear that were out of my budget. Pass xs360 quad monoblocks, etc... If I didn't connect at that level at that price point of upstreams, my gear at home had no chance.

voltz · February 2015

What about something like the Harbeth / Monitor 40.1's ?

tonyb · February 2015

DSkip wrote: »

Could just be bad pairings. Everything at that level is going to be very sensitive to the upstream products.

Bingo....but since the man likes his Cary gear, why risk changing all that to pair up with yet another speaker ? He likes the Diamonds with his Cary gear, then all he needs to do is shop around.

Joey, we can throw speaker suggestions at ya all day, just too damn many out there really pal. Get your ears on as much as possible, this isn't your first rodeo. Trust your own judgment, we here are just shootin' in the dark. Seems to me your ears and judgment have worked out just fine for you over the years.

erniejade · February 2015

The Imagine t2 and Imagine T3 are both floor standing.

tonyb · February 2015

Just a FYI for those who don't know Joey, I believe he's rockin' the ML Summits right now so any suggestions has to be a vast improvement for him to consider. Joey can correct me if I'm wrong or if he has moved on to something else.

Joey_V · February 2015

True tony, I have a preference for the sound I want to hear. I've heard enough during this demo period but clearly not enough because of logistics. One of these days I will make a pilgrimage to LMC in Arizona and hear some real gear. If anyone wants to come and join.

Also I plan going to RMAF this year.

tonyb wrote: »

DSkip wrote: »

Could just be bad pairings. Everything at that level is going to be very sensitive to the upstream products.

Bingo....but since the man likes his Cary gear, why risk changing all that to pair up with yet another speaker ? He likes the Diamonds with his Cary gear, then all he needs to do is shop around.

Joey, we can throw speaker suggestions at ya all day, just too damn many out there really pal. Get your ears on as much as possible, this isn't your first rodeo. Trust your own judgment, we here are just shootin' in the dark. Seems to me your ears and judgment have worked out just fine for you over the years.

polkfarmboy · February 2015

I think the BW 800 are one of the best looking speakers ever made.

Joey_V · February 2015

polkfarmboy wrote: »

I think the BW 800 are one of the best looking speakers ever made.

I agree with you 100%. I was thinking of having them build a custom color for me... blue or white. But black just looks sinister.

Joey_V · February 2015

DSkip wrote: »

Nola may be up your alley. They are open baffle with sealed bass modules.

We are just shooting in the wind, but that's all we can do. I think right now, sf is out and b&w is the one to beat.

Regarding SF Strad vs BW800 Diamonds - one thing about the Strads that favor my situation is the 93db sensitivity. Easier to drive with my 211 FE. But I'm not going to favor a particular speaker because of the amplification. I can always change to more powerful amps later.

Heard about Nolas... can't get over the look. But I hear they are supposedly fantastic sounding.

What I really want to hear are Kharmas and Martens.... but unfortunately, the cost is a little much and to move up their line, you gotta shell out some serious dough.

Joey_V · February 2015

DSkip wrote: »

I know these are love/hate speakers, but what about MBL? I'm trying to think of others that might best the Summit at its own game.

There's an MBL for sale in Chicago through audiogon - 24K. Right there with the 800 diamonds. I am trying to set up an audition.

Others have told me they are great speakers - might be true in the right room I think. Not sure how an omnidirectional speaker might fare in a smaller room like mine.

Btw, I'll let you in a little secret - the Summits' weakness is in the lower midrange and mid bass to upper bass. You can hear everything as in it resolves in great detail and micro detail and it is fantastically coherent, however, I noticed as I moved up the budget and heard more and more state of the art speakers... the Summits have something missing. Call it the "you are there feeling" or the fact that something just sounds like a facsimile...

I describe it best as you can hear it but you can't feel it.

That's why I'm moving on. BW 800 diamonds may not sound as "natural" as the Summits, but they wipe the floor with just how involving they are on tubes.

Speaker choices - anyone has any opinion on either of these? BW 800 Diamonds or SF Strads.

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